George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

[suitanim]

As always, Will is right. Now that negative attention has been turned towards the problem, it will slide down the slippery slope and eventually end up being "Brady Ball".

Enjoy what's left of the man's game that we grew up with.

(And PLEASE read both articles before commenting...there is much more at the link at the bottom of the page)

http://news.yahoo.com/george-dangers...-politics.html

As millions watch and celebrate the success of America's athletes in the Olympic Games in London, ABC News' George Will turned his attention to the beginning of the NFL season and the ongoing debate over traumatic brain injuries suffered on the football field.
In his Washington Post column this morning, George Will writes powerfully about the long-term problems facing the sport, saying, "Football is entertainment in which the audience is expected to delight in gladiatorial action that a growing portion of the audience knows may cause the players degenerative brain disease."
He spoke about the issue this morning on the "This Week" roundtable:
STEPHANOPOULOS: George, I know it's hard for you to watch Olympics during baseball season, but I think all of us were actually struck by what you wrote this week about so far - your column this morning, pretty simple but staggering conclusion. You write that football just can't be fixed.
WILL: The human body is no longer built for the kinetic energy of the National Football League and even further down to high school. In 1980, George, there were three NFL players over 300 pounds. Today there are three over 350 pounds, and 352 people on the 2011 rosters weighed more than 300 pounds.
WILL: Over 20 yards, which is where a lot of football is played, these guys are as fast as cats, fast as running backs, and the kinetic energy is producing what is called chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE, get used to that, because it's going to be the subject of lawsuits and other things. The crucial word is chronic. Repeated, small but repeated blows to the head, the brain floating in the pan in the skull, now we know causes early dementia and other problems.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what's to be done about it? Because right now, there's no evidence that the American public is ready to turn away.
WILL: It will start down below. It will start at the small level of kids playing football in grade school and then in high school. We now in our hyper-cautious parenting put crash helmets on children riding tricycles. How many of these parents are going to let their children go out and play football once they learn, again the chronic, the cumulative effect of small brain trauma?


Will's original article is here:
http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/...a4bcf887a.html

[43Hitman]

Yep, I agree with Will completely. I already know several parents who won't allow their boys to play football, they've put them in wrestling, baseball, basketball, and golf. My son doesn't really even care about football, other than the Steelers, and that's only because I'm his hero. He'd rather go to Tai Kwon Do class or play soccer.

With the lawsuits on the rise over head trauma, parents keeping their kids out of the game, and the extreme rule changes. I certainly can see the sport declining to the point of boxing.

[suitanim]

Perhaps there will be a new generation led by the likes of Chidi who will still appreciate the game when it's basically soccer played with giant air bubbles around people, but not me. We are now watching Roger Goodell step in and write an epilogue to the game...and it will have little to do with the story we all loved and grew up with.

[silver & black]

I already hate what's happened to the game. If it wasn't for the fact that I've been a fan for over 40 years, I probably wouldn't care about it at all. I can see myself slowly weening myself off the game in the next 10 years. It's damn near unwatchable now, with all the restraints put on the defenses. It can, and will, only get worse.

[Count Steeler]

Today, however, the problem is not the rules; it is the fiction that football can be fixed and still resemble the game fans relish.

Hence the emphasis on fantasy football. Get the masses attracted to statistics and high scoring numbers. Defense must go the way of the dinosaur, and so to our generation of FOOTBALL aficionados.

[ALLD]

Pro Bowl every Sunday, here we come.

[Chidi29]

Perhaps there will be a new generation led by the likes of Chidi who will still appreciate the game when it's basically soccer played with giant air bubbles around people, but not me. We are now watching Roger Goodell step in and write an epilogue to the game...and it will have little to do with the story we all loved and grew up with.

The game has ALWAYS been adding more and more restraints. What Goodell is doing is nothing new. Take a look at any commissioner and he's made big changes to the game directly on the field or off it.

You can't be upset when you see players affected by post-career ailments and not want to change the game at the same time. Can't be done.

[bayz101]

A big portion of this blame should go on those who are SUING the NFL for "injuries" and "long-term health problems" suffered from a career in the NFL. Truthfully, a waiver should be signed (as Gary suggested in another thread) that signifies that they're aware of the risks they're already obviously aware of in the first place. Put that shit in writing. THEN maybe the NFL will be less geared towards flag football, and back towards, well, football.

[Chidi29]

A big portion of this blame should go on those who are SUING the NFL for "injuries" and "long-term health problems" suffered from a career in the NFL. Truthfully, a waiver should be signed (as Gary suggested in another thread) that signifies that they're aware of the risks they're already obviously aware of in the first place. Put that shit in writing. THEN maybe the NFL will be less geared towards flag football, and back towards, well, football.

The league still has to do what they can to minimize the risks of these injuries/long-term effects.

But yes, you're right. The players should not be yelling at the league for the way the game is headed and then sue the league for it. Seriously, what is Goodell supposed to do? I mean, My God, he can't get away from it. I saw the interview Goodell had with Ed Werder (apparently left Brett Favre's front yard) before the HOF inductions. Grilled on every question. Give the guy a break.

[suitanim]

Aw.....poor Woger. He was asked some tough questions? Poor baby.

He makes 20 fucking million dollars a year. He's compensated well enough to answer some hard questions about how he's ruining the NFL.

It'd be different if the guy had any kind of even-handedness about him, but team A gets treated in one fashion, and team C in far wore, actual convictions "tarnish the shield" less than certain accusations, and the validity and veracity of those accusations is secondary or even tertiary to the actual "shock value" of the accusation itself. And I'm not even talking about the moronic ideas he's put forth on the field like fining and suspending players for HITS THAT AREN'T EVEN ILLEGAL AND DON'T EVEN DRAW FLAGS.

Here's what I'd do. Settle a large class-action lawsuit QUICKLY with all these old players (the longer it drags on, the larger the chunk the shyster lawyers get and the less that winds up in the players pockets), work with the union to craft new rules that both sides agree to as well as new safety measures, put a moratorium on news suits dealing with concussions, and try to salvage something.

[Nadroj 20]

I would love to see some people try to be the commisher of the NFL.

[LLT]

I would love to see anyone else try to be the commisher of the NFL.

Fixed it for you.

[fansince'76]

You can't be upset when you see players affected by post-career ailments and not want to change the game at the same time. Can't be done.

Roger Staubach sums it up pretty well from my perspective:

Staubach admitted to suffering at least 8 concussions himself and has not joined in on any of the ongoing lawsuits. “I knew what I was getting into with [playing] the game” he said.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/07/20/s...l-concussions/

It's called personal responsibility and accountability - two concepts that seem to be foreign to the current 21st Century American "It's always someone else's fault" society.

[Nadroj 20]

Roger Staubach sums it up pretty well from my perspective:



http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/07/20/s...l-concussions/

It's called personal responsibility and accountability - two concepts that seem to be foreign to the current 21st Century American "It's always someone else's fault" society.

But guess what? We have to live with these 21st Century Americans with this thinking process. You have to go with the hand you are dealt. Whether we like it or not, the NFL is going to get blamed and lawsuits are going to come down. Why wouldn't a business man try to make decisions to make the game safer if he, you, and I all know the society we live in?

[fansince'76]

But guess what? We have to live with these 21st Century Americans with this thinking process. You have to go with the hand you are dealt. Whether we like it or not, the NFL is going to get blamed and lawsuits are going to come down. Why wouldn't a business man try to make decisions to make the game safer if he, you, and I all know the society we live in?

That's kinda why I suggested in another thread that it was past time for the NFL to start demanding players to sign waivers acknowledging the risks they are already full aware of and which severely limits the league's liability for those risks.

[Nadroj 20]

Fixed it for you.

Really? Give me a name. How do we know a different guy wouldn't be in there doing the exact same things?

I'm with all of you as far as the punishments go. I have never understood Goodell on that one. Very very inconsistent. But everything else is made out to be so easy I just don't know if anyone can satisfy the majority of fans.

[Nadroj 20]

That's kinda why I suggested in another thread that it was past time for the NFL to start demanding players to sign waivers acknowledging the risks they are already full aware of and which severely limits the league's liability for those risks.

I wish it were that simple. Can you see the NLFPA agreeing to that?

[fansince'76]

I wish it were that simple. Can you see the NLFPA agreeing to that?

It is that simple. You don't sign, you don't play.

[suitanim]

Fixed it for you.

I'd do it for 5 million, and do a better job. Goodell is a stooge and a twit.

In fact, I'll give you a few ideas on how to fix many of the current league problems. These are not fantastical impossible scenarios, either, but practical common sense fixes that could be implemented rather quickly.

-As I stated before, get out in front of this concussion thing. ADMIT that there was a problem, set up an annuity that all teams pay into via a small percentage of revenue generated set aside, and pay it into a huge medical pool to cover ALL medical expenses that aren't covered by insurance for any NFL player who is vested. The league and the union can negotiate the definition of vested. (Bear in mind that there are lots of research opportunities here as well...advances in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research, advances in orthopedics, brain damage studies, etc, etc...)
-Put in place one set of rules to address the issue (again, negotiated between league and union) and be done with it. Stop tinkering with the rules. Just address it and move on.
-Be consistent. DUI accusation? Penalty A. DUI conviction? Penalty B. Accusation? Penalty A. Accusation substantiated? Penalty B. Conviction? Penalty C. Stop this inconsistent case-by-case sliding scale apparently based by throwing darts at a board, or race-based, or team based.
-Same for on-field incidents. No flag? No fine. Set up a review board for flagged hits, and a separate appeals board, with 9 members each both with voted upon respected representatives from all aspects of the league, including former players and coaches, former refs, etc, etc...
-STOP with this arbitrary and capricious system where massive power rests with few or even just one.
-Ticket prices are too high. I'd set-up a league sponsored charity where each player sponsors at least family for one game a season. Some more, bit every player sponsors at least one family per year. 53 players per team X family of 4 (on average) plus a match from ownership = 400+ fans who could NEVER afford to go to a game getting the white glove treatment.
-Eliminate Pro Bowl. It's a jokey mess. Just elect an all-Pro team every year. It's so watered down now that after all the people who fake injuries to avoid the dumb game are filtered out, we have tools like Derek Anderson making the Pro Bowl. Really? REALLY? fan votes count for 15%, players and coaches the other 85%. Read these boards. Most fans are idiots.
-Pro-rate fines. Millionaires and guys making league minimum should NOT be paying the same fine. If your contract is for 100 million, and you actually commit some infraction worth of being fines, the fine should be HUGE. Like $150,000. If you make $350k, same infraction is 25k.
-If you get caught cheating, for Christs sake, you vacate all your wins and are kicked out of the league forever. No more cover-ups.

That's just a few off the top of my head.

[Nadroj 20]

It is that simple. You don't sign, you don't play.

I think it is far from simple. Getting to that "you don't sign, you don't play" part won't happen instantly would it?

[suitanim]

Waivers don't work anyway. They only provide a first line of defense. They get "sued over" all the time...

If there is a provision in place to pay for medical bills, and the NFL acknowledges that it is a league that is involved in risky activities, there's no need anyway. Players simply sign saying that they, too, acknowledge that pro football is a sport that increases their risk of head and other injuries.

[fansince'76]

I think it is far from simple. Getting to that "you don't sign, you don't play" part won't happen instantly would it?

I dunno - seems to me Goodell put the hammer down on the Saints pretty quickly, once all the "evidence" was in. It was even quicker for the arbitrator to find in the league's favor as far as Goodell hearing the appeals in the case.

[Nadroj 20]

I just want to be clear I am not a Roger Goodell apologist by any means, I'm just trying to be as open-minded as possible. I understand that this isn't an easy job whatsoever. I have my complaints but I do try to reserve my complaints when I don't necessarily understand everything that is going on.

[Nadroj 20]

I dunno - seems to me Goodell put the hammer down on the Saints pretty quickly, once all the "evidence" was in. It was even quicker for the arbitrator to find in the league's favor as far as Goodell hearing the appeals in the case.

Well I completely disagree with Goodell on the Saints situation. So I'm with ya on this one. Now all of a sudden Vilma's suspension might get reduced? What?

Doesn't make sense at all.

[Chidi29]

Aw.....poor Woger. He was asked some tough questions? Poor baby.

He makes 20 fucking million dollars a year. He's compensated well enough to answer some hard questions about how he's ruining the NFL.

It'd be different if the guy had any kind of even-handedness about him, but team A gets treated in one fashion, and team C in far wore, actual convictions "tarnish the shield" less than certain accusations, and the validity and veracity of those accusations is secondary or even tertiary to the actual "shock value" of the accusation itself. And I'm not even talking about the moronic ideas he's put forth on the field like fining and suspending players for HITS THAT AREN'T EVEN ILLEGAL AND DON'T EVEN DRAW FLAGS.

Here's what I'd do. Settle a large class-action lawsuit QUICKLY with all these old players (the longer it drags on, the larger the chunk the shyster lawyers get and the less that winds up in the players pockets), work with the union to craft new rules that both sides agree to as well as new safety measures, put a moratorium on news suits dealing with concussions, and try to salvage something.

My point is that it has to be annoying to be constantly grilled wherever you go, even at a ceremony that is supposed to honor football's best. The Apocalypse could happen and I'm sure Werder would ask Goodell, "How will the end of the world affect the Saints' suspensions?"

If he settles, the players accuse the NFL of admitting guilt and the league never hears the end of it.

Work with the union? Have you seen the people that run the union? You don't "work with" D Smith. He'll do whatever he can to get his way, even if that means sacrificing the safety of the players he's supposed to protect (such as when he nixed features in helmets that would measure concussions).

Try and prevent future lawsuits? Good luck getting the players to go for that. More fodder for their "league is trying to cover up concussions" agenda.

[steelerdude15]

First off, I just want to say that people in this country no longer have backbones. No ones tough anymore, people blame everything on someone else, etc. To relate to what I just said about football, people need to get a grip. What sport is there not going to be injuries in? My God, you could sprain your ankle walking down the damn street. Injuries are part of the game; they always have been and always will be no matter how much you want to change sports. These players who are currently in the NFL and the former players who are suing knew what they were getting into. You leave part of your body on the field and that's how it is. I agree that these players need to start signing waivers and Hell, make teenagers who want to play football in high school sign them. Push the helmet manufacturers to make safer helmets (which they are with science and technology), make the padding safer (which they are), etc. Another thing, the first thing that people learn about football is to tackle and the proper way to tackle is to lead with your shoulders and not your head. Hey, reteach the fundamentals of football at every level if you have to. All I'm saying are there are ways to make the game safer, but when it comes down to it, injuries are going to happen. We can bash Roger all we want because of how the game is changing, but lets face it, the NFL is doing it to cover themselves from the lawsuits and quite honestly, I hope every single one gets thrown out because I have no sympathy for a single player that's suing the NFL over this. I also have suffered a concussion because of football and other injuries that included a dislocated thumb that resulted in having surgery to fix a completely torn tendon and I also ruptured my bursa in my right knee which has resulted in me having bursitis for the rest of my life and I will have to deal with this pain for the rest of my life, but unlike these cowards, I wouldn't take any of it back and here's why. Football and sports in general have done so many positive things in our lives. Sports can give us hope when we feel we have no hope left and they can take the pain away. Not only that, but football helps create brotherhoods that can never be erased. The sport has helped take little children out of horrible ghettos like Curtis Martin and Chad Johnson and turned them into law abiding citizens instead of criminals. Its unfortunate that people who have never played the game are changing to fit their needs and focus on the bad instead of focusing on the wonderful things this sport has done. Just my two cents...

[Chidi29]

I'd do it for 5 million, and do a better job. Goodell is a stooge and a twit.

In fact, I'll give you a few ideas on how to fix many of the current league problems. These are not fantastical impossible scenarios, either, but practical common sense fixes that could be implemented rather quickly.

-As I stated before, get out in front of this concussion thing. ADMIT that there was a problem, set up an annuity that all teams pay into via a small percentage of revenue generated set aside, and pay it into a huge medical pool to cover ALL medical expenses that aren't covered by insurance for any NFL player who is vested. The league and the union can negotiate the definition of vested. (Bear in mind that there are lots of research opportunities here as well...advances in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research, advances in orthopedics, brain damage studies, etc, etc...)
-Put in place one set of rules to address the issue (again, negotiated between league and union) and be done with it. Stop tinkering with the rules. Just address it and move on.
-Be consistent. DUI accusation? Penalty A. DUI conviction? Penalty B. Accusation? Penalty A. Accusation substantiated? Penalty B. Conviction? Penalty C. Stop this inconsistent case-by-case sliding scale apparently based by throwing darts at a board, or race-based, or team based.
-Same for on-field incidents. No flag? No fine. Set up a review board for flagged hits, and a separate appeals board, with 9 members each both with voted upon respected representatives from all aspects of the league, including former players and coaches, former refs, etc, etc...
-STOP with this arbitrary and capricious system where massive power rests with few or even just one.
-Ticket prices are too high. I'd set-up a league sponsored charity where each player sponsors at least family for one game a season. Some more, bit every player sponsors at least one family per year. 53 players per team X family of 4 (on average) plus a match from ownership = 400+ fans who could NEVER afford to go to a game getting the white glove treatment.
-Eliminate Pro Bowl. It's a jokey mess. Just elect an all-Pro team every year. It's so watered down now that after all the people who fake injuries to avoid the dumb game are filtered out, we have tools like Derek Anderson making the Pro Bowl. Really? REALLY? fan votes count for 15%, players and coaches the other 85%. Read these boards. Most fans are idiots.
-Pro-rate fines. Millionaires and guys making league minimum should NOT be paying the same fine. If your contract is for 100 million, and you actually commit some infraction worth of being fines, the fine should be HUGE. Like $150,000. If you make $350k, same infraction is 25k.
-If you get caught cheating, for Christs sake, you vacate all your wins and are kicked out of the league forever. No more cover-ups.

That's just a few off the top of my head.

You can never just "be done" with rules. The rules and the game is constantly evolving. You can't have something static in a dynamic sport. It doesn't work. There are always additions and subtractions to the rules. Always have, always will be.

The issue with the "X" equals "Y" scenario in terms of player punishment is that each scenario is unique. They're snowflakes. It makes it tough to come up with a punishment with for every crime and every degree of it.

First, no flag should not mean no fine. Just because a ref misses a call, they're human, doesn't mean it should go without punishment. If it's supposed to be punished, it should be.

And let's learn about how the league works for a second. They do have what you're talking about.

"Set up a review board for flagged hits, and a separate appeals board, with 9 members each both with voted upon respected representatives from all aspects of the league, including former players and coaches, former refs, etc, etc..."

This is how the review/appeals process works.

Every single play is reviewed by the referees. Those that are are deemed fineable are sent to Ray Anderson and Merton Hanks (former DB) who make the decision based on the fine system agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA.

The player is notified of the fine, given explanation to why it was a fine, and video of the play. He has the right to appeal the fine.

If he chooses to appeal, he goes to a Art Shell (former offensive lineman and head coach) or Ted Cotrell (former linebacker). They are paid jointly by the NFL and NFLPA. Then they make a decision on the appeal.

What you want is a bit more expansive, sure, but the NFL has one of the most just fine systems in all of sports.

There is no "massive power rests". Heck, Goodell had to be GIVEN the ability to appeal BountyGate by an independent arbitrator.

[Chidi29]

I dunno - seems to me Goodell put the hammer down on the Saints pretty quickly, once all the "evidence" was in. It was even quicker for the arbitrator to find in the league's favor as far as Goodell hearing the appeals in the case.

What's that supposed to mean?

[steeldawg]

I'd do it for 5 million, and do a better job. Goodell is a stooge and a twit.

In fact, I'll give you a few ideas on how to fix many of the current league problems. These are not fantastical impossible scenarios, either, but practical common sense fixes that could be implemented rather quickly.

-As I stated before, get out in front of this concussion thing. ADMIT that there was a problem, set up an annuity that all teams pay into via a small percentage of revenue generated set aside, and pay it into a huge medical pool to cover ALL medical expenses that aren't covered by insurance for any NFL player who is vested. The league and the union can negotiate the definition of vested. (Bear in mind that there are lots of research opportunities here as well...advances in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research, advances in orthopedics, brain damage studies, etc, etc...)
-Put in place one set of rules to address the issue (again, negotiated between league and union) and be done with it. Stop tinkering with the rules. Just address it and move on.
-Be consistent. DUI accusation? Penalty A. DUI conviction? Penalty B. Accusation? Penalty A. Accusation substantiated? Penalty B. Conviction? Penalty C. Stop this inconsistent case-by-case sliding scale apparently based by throwing darts at a board, or race-based, or team based.
-Same for on-field incidents. No flag? No fine. Set up a review board for flagged hits, and a separate appeals board, with 9 members each both with voted upon respected representatives from all aspects of the league, including former players and coaches, former refs, etc, etc...
-STOP with this arbitrary and capricious system where massive power rests with few or even just one.
-Ticket prices are too high. I'd set-up a league sponsored charity where each player sponsors at least family for one game a season. Some more, bit every player sponsors at least one family per year. 53 players per team X family of 4 (on average) plus a match from ownership = 400+ fans who could NEVER afford to go to a game getting the white glove treatment.
-Eliminate Pro Bowl. It's a jokey mess. Just elect an all-Pro team every year. It's so watered down now that after all the people who fake injuries to avoid the dumb game are filtered out, we have tools like Derek Anderson making the Pro Bowl. Really? REALLY? fan votes count for 15%, players and coaches the other 85%. Read these boards. Most fans are idiots.
-Pro-rate fines. Millionaires and guys making league minimum should NOT be paying the same fine. If your contract is for 100 million, and you actually commit some infraction worth of being fines, the fine should be HUGE. Like $150,000. If you make $350k, same infraction is 25k.
-If you get caught cheating, for Christs sake, you vacate all your wins and are kicked out of the league forever. No more cover-ups.

That's just a few off the top of my head.

Hard to believe a 9 billion dollar a year corporation hired a twit likee goodell , while a genius such as yourself slipped through their fingers for only 5 million.

[suitanim]

You can never just "be done" with rules. The rules and the game is constantly evolving. You can't have something static in a dynamic sport. It doesn't work. There are always additions and subtractions to the rules. Always have, always will be.

The issue with the "X" equals "Y" scenario in terms of player punishment is that each scenario is unique. They're snowflakes. It makes it tough to come up with a punishment with for every crime and every degree of it.

First, no flag should not mean no fine. Just because a ref misses a call, they're human, doesn't mean it should go without punishment. If it's supposed to be punished, it should be.

And let's learn about how the league works for a second. They do have what you're talking about.

"Set up a review board for flagged hits, and a separate appeals board, with 9 members each both with voted upon respected representatives from all aspects of the league, including former players and coaches, former refs, etc, etc..."

This is how the review/appeals process works.

Every single play is reviewed by the referees. Those that are are deemed fineable are sent to Ray Anderson and Merton Hanks (former DB) who make the decision based on the fine system agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA.

The player is notified of the fine, given explanation to why it was a fine, and video of the play. He has the right to appeal the fine.

If he chooses to appeal, he goes to a Art Shell (former offensive lineman and head coach) or Ted Cotrell (former linebacker). They are paid jointly by the NFL and NFLPA. Then they make a decision on the appeal.

What you want is a bit more expansive, sure, but the NFL has one of the most just fine systems in all of sports.

There is no "massive power rests". Heck, Goodell had to be GIVEN the ability to appeal BountyGate by an independent arbitrator.

I can't figure out which is more shocking. Steeldawg's persistent idiocy without any kind of actual substance other than to just bash anything I say, regardless of whether he can even comprehend it, or your cherry picking and oversimplifying what I said in reflexive defense of Goodell. I do realize one thing now that kind of speaks to both....you are developing the kind of.....um.........sycophantic skills necessary to move up in an organizations, right down to the condescension of those who disagree (i.e. "Let's learn how the league works for a second"). What I suggested was in addition to what the league is already doing, and, as such, much, much more than how the league actually works, but, whatever...

Either way, nothing is going to change the course of this Titanic, so I really don't care how much people debate the changing of the tune the band plays or rearranging the deck chairs as it sinks. You guys can keep this topic going yourselves...