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Thread: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Just wait for the first Steeler to be fined and you'll be reminded of how many people throw out ten year old insults to Goodell.

    At the very least, there are only a half dozen at most people who post regularly on this board that don't hate Goodell.
    I don't think the problem is the fines, I think the problem is the consistency, and the lack thereof. You know that every play is supposedly reviewed by the league and the frustration arises when you know that there should be a fine, (Steeler or non Steeler) and none is handed out.

    As long as it is a level playing field, you won't hear many complaints. You will always have the homers, but really, fair is fair and most people understand that.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    I don't think the problem is the fines, I think the problem is the consistency, and the lack thereof. You know that every play is supposedly reviewed by the league and the frustration arises when you know that there should be a fine, (Steeler or non Steeler) and none is handed out.

    As long as it is a level playing field, you won't hear many complaints. You will always have the homers, but really, fair is fair and most people understand that.
    Well then that isn't on Goodell. That is on the refs who are reviewing the play. Goodell is not able to personally watch every play himself.

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    Senior Member Array title="Butch has a reputation beyond repute"> Butch's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    I don't think the problem is the fines, I think the problem is the consistency, and the lack thereof. You know that every play is supposedly reviewed by the league and the frustration arises when you know that there should be a fine, (Steeler or non Steeler) and none is handed out.

    As long as it is a level playing field, you won't hear many complaints. You will always have the homers, but really, fair is fair and most people understand that.
    Hit the nail on the head!!!

    And yes it is on Godell. You can give him all the plausible deniability you want but in the end it is his game and he is responsible for how it is run. You can't possibly want us to believe that he never sees some of the same hits we do week in and and week out without knowing that someone got away with something. He may not see everything but there's been enough out there that he knows there should have been fines.

    I want to know who is the person reviewing these Steeler films because maybe the next time one of our players gets hit illegally we can petition them to get it resolved.

    If Godell doesn't know it's because he doesn't want to know not because he's not responsible!!!

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Hit the nail on the head!!!

    And yes it is on Godell. You can give him all the plausible deniability you want but in the end it is his game and he is responsible for how it is run. You can't possibly want us to believe that he never sees some of the same hits we do week in and and week out without knowing that someone got away with something. He may not see everything but there's been enough out there that he knows there should have been fines.

    I want to know who is the person reviewing these Steeler films because maybe the next time one of our players gets hit illegally we can petition them to get it resolved.

    If Godell doesn't know it's because he doesn't want to know not because he's not responsible!!!
    Goodell can't be directly involved in every step of the process. I bet if he was, people would just get on his case for his bias in the decisions (people still think he's involved in the initial fine process, he is not). He actually takes himself out of it and puts it into the hands of others.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Goodell can't be directly involved in every step of the process. I bet if he was, people would just get on his case for his bias in the decisions (people still think he's involved in the initial fine process, he is not). He actually takes himself out of it and puts it into the hands of others.
    Again with the plausable deniability. He's the commisioner of the league and as such he can inflict what goes on, either directly or indirectly and therefore he is responsible!!! He can either investigate or he can stick his head where the sun don't shine and say if I don't see it then it never happened. He doesn't even have to watch game tape from every game just watch his own network or BSPN and you will see a number of hits that should be fined and are not.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Again with the plausable deniability. He's the commisioner of the league and as such he can inflict what goes on, either directly or indirectly and therefore he is responsible!!! He can either investigate or he can stick his head where the sun don't shine and say if I don't see it then it never happened. He doesn't even have to watch game tape from every game just watch his own network or BSPN and you will see a number of hits that should be fined and are not.
    But if his guys are telling him it's not a fineable hit, then that's what he is going to go off of. Not what Sportscenter says.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    But if his guys are telling him it's not a fineable hit, then that's what he is going to go off of. Not what Sportscenter says.
    Again if you want to bury your head in the sand and say they didn't tell me so it's not a fine then so be it. Sports shows don't have to talk about the hits when the hits speak for themselves. Hell don't even have to listen to sports center just watch a couple games every week you will see the hits. Who ultimately upholds the fines and the system for fining players and upholding the integrity of the game?

    If the system's broke stick your head in the sand so it won't get chopped off. Talk about playing it safe.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Again if you want to bury your head in the sand and say they didn't tell me so it's not a fine then so be it. Sports shows don't have to talk about the hits when the hits speak for themselves. Hell don't even have to listen to sports center just watch a couple games every week you will see the hits. Who ultimately upholds the fines and the system for fining players and upholding the integrity of the game?

    If the system's broke stick your head in the sand so it won't get chopped off. Talk about playing it safe.
    I don't know how more thorough of a system you can get when you have trained eyes watching every single play.

    If Goodell is hands on, you guys will yell at him for his "biased" decisions. If Goodell is hands off, you guys yell at him for not taking responsibility and being involved. Another lose-lose situation for Roger Goodell.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I don't know how more thorough of a system you can get when you have trained eyes watching every single play.

    If Goodell is hands on, you guys will yell at him for his "biased" decisions. If Goodell is hands off, you guys yell at him for not taking responsibility and being involved. Another lose-lose situation for Roger Goodell.
    Rog knows there is a problem and if he choses to stick his head in the sand then he's at fault.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I don't know how more thorough of a system you can get when you have trained eyes watching every single play.

    If Goodell is hands on, you guys will yell at him for his "biased" decisions. If Goodell is hands off, you guys yell at him for not taking responsibility and being involved. Another lose-lose situation for Roger Goodell.
    If Goodell has given off responsibility to his tape review committee, than he should hold them accountable. Refs are scored game by game and those that score the highest are chosen for the playoffs. I give the refs a heck of a lot more lee way because they don't have the benefit of reviewing every play.

    However, a committee that watches every play and can continue to mete out inconsistent fines on a consistent basis, SHOULD and NEEDS to be held accountable. If Roger choses to defer to the committee and not listen to the complaints of the teams, the players and the fans, then he is an ass.

    Again, if you are going to have player safety as your mantra and you have vowed to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, by rule changes and by enforcing fines, how can he defend a committee that has erred so many times? How can you not start to look at the decisions and start to wonder why some hits get fined and other hits are deemed acceptable?

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    If Goodell has given off responsibility to his tape review committee, than he should hold them accountable. Refs are scored game by game and those that score the highest are chosen for the playoffs. I give the refs a heck of a lot more lee way because they don't have the benefit of reviewing every play.

    However, a committee that watches every play and can continue to mete out inconsistent fines on a consistent basis, SHOULD and NEEDS to be held accountable. If Roger choses to defer to the committee and not listen to the complaints of the teams, the players and the fans, then he is an ass.

    Again, if you are going to have player safety as your mantra and you have vowed to eliminate helmet to helmet hits, by rule changes and by enforcing fines, how can he defend a committee that has erred so many times? How can you not start to look at the decisions and start to wonder why some hits get fined and other hits are deemed acceptable?
    We don't know what Goodell is doing to try and curb the mistakes. To say that he's doing nothing is pure speculation.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    We don't know what Goodell is doing to try and curb the mistakes. To say that he's doing nothing is pure speculation.
    And saying that he is doing something is pure speculation. And the longer he waits to do something, the more likely it is that he will do nothing.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    And saying that he is doing something is pure speculation. And the longer he waits to do something, the more likely it is that he will do nothing.
    I didn't say that he is doing something. I just said "We don't know". We = Me + You

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I didn't say that he is doing something. I just said "We don't know". We = Me + You
    Yes, but you emphasized my stance without including your own.

    WE can say that WE don't know if he is doing anything. WE don't know if he is doing something and WE don't know if he is doing nothing.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    Yes, but you emphasized my stance without including your own.

    WE can say that WE don't know if he is doing anything. WE don't know if he is doing something and WE don't know if he is doing nothing.
    Correct.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Goodell just cant win, either he has too much power or he is delegating the power too much. Of course hes going to have trained eyes reviewing the hits any smart person would. If goodell reviewed every hit personally people would be screaming for a review panel which is exactly what we have in place right now.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    So I guess he's like Obama. Will take whatever credit he wants and pass the blame on to Bush, or Congress, or the American people, or...

    When you are the agent of the owners and you are entrusted with the integrity of the NFL, the buck stops at your doorstep. It is the responsibility of Goodell that all games and all decisions end fairly.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    If he's doing anything it has not been apparent and definitely ineffective.

    Godell can win if he corrects or shows that he is taking steps to correct the problems at hand. The fines are inconsistant and the flags seem to come for only certain QB's and against certain teams. To say that Godell knows nothing about this is naive. Of course this may be remedied by outside sources but for now we can only hope we live to see that day.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    So I guess he's like Obama. Will take whatever credit he wants and pass the blame on to Bush, or Congress, or the American people, or...

    When you are the agent of the owners and you are entrusted with the integrity of the NFL, the buck stops at your doorstep. It is the responsibility of Goodell that all games and all decisions end fairly.
    So I guess he should stop catching flack for being judge jury and executioner?

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    So I guess he's like Obama. Will take whatever credit he wants and pass the blame on to Bush, or Congress, or the American people, or...

    When you are the agent of the owners and you are entrusted with the integrity of the NFL, the buck stops at your doorstep. It is the responsibility of Goodell that all games and all decisions end fairly.
    While I don't agree with the 1st part of this since every president has done the same thing and I don't want this to turn into a political thing. I do however support the ending. It's what I have been saying all along.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    If he's doing anything it has not been apparent and definitely ineffective.

    Godell can win if he corrects or shows that he is taking steps to correct the problems at hand. The fines are inconsistant and the flags seem to come for only certain QB's and against certain teams. To say that Godell knows nothing about this is naive. Of course this may be remedied by outside sources but for now we can only hope we live to see that day.
    Or maybe that's just your observation bias. Unless you think Goodell is really telling the refs to call more penalties when Tom Brady is hit. Is that what you think?

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    So I guess he should stop catching flack for being judge jury and executioner?
    Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion from my post.

    It is the responsibility of Goodell that all games and all decisions end fairly.

    If a referee is not performing as he should, if a tape review committee fails to catch illegal hits on a consistent basis, if substitute referees are used through the season and they perform as they did at the first game, who do YOU hold responsible?

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Or maybe that's just your observation bias. Unless you think Goodell is really telling the refs to call more penalties when Tom Brady is hit. Is that what you think?
    Or maybe it's you bias that prevents you from seeing any flaws. Fines are my biggest beef with the league. They have no rhyme or reason as to what is fined and what is not. Of course because Godell has a panel of experts his hands are washed of any responsibility. Isn't that what you think?

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    Or maybe it's you bias that prevents you from seeing any flaws. Fines are my biggest beef with the league. They have no rhyme or reason as to what is fined and what is not. Of course because Godell has a panel of experts his hands are washed of any responsibility. Isn't that what you think?
    I can be critical of the league. In this sub-forum, I posted a thread questioning the league's claims of a referee's credentials. I'm capable of being objective. Are you?

    I'm just saying that Goodell does not have much of a role in the fine process. At any point, really. It's all handled by other people. So why should he get all of the blame?

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Wrong thread. Ooops.

  26. #86

    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    So you think the league is intentionally showing favoritism to Flacco and QBs without having a legitimate reason for it?
    No...I'm showing you ABSOLUTE proof that your assertion is false. The leagues rules are anything but firm and are arbitrarily enforced.

    Unless you, of course, can give a logical explanation as to why a quarterback horse collaring a ball carrier is less dangerous than when someone else does it.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I can be critical of the league. In this sub-forum, I posted a thread questioning the league's claims of a referee's credentials. I'm capable of being objective. Are you?

    I'm just saying that Goodell does not have much of a role in the fine process. At any point, really. It's all handled by other people. So why should he get all of the blame?
    You are critical of who the league or roger??? I'm hard pressed to think of a time when I was supportive of Roger, but I love that he let there be a Superbowl in an open cold weather stadium. Suppose that's what you are looking for.

    As I have stated he knows of the flaws and he does nothing but wash his hands and put his head in the sand. He has not shown me anything that he is addressing the situation and until then I will not back down from my stance.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    While I don't agree with the 1st part of this since every president has done the same thing and I don't want this to turn into a political thing. I do however support the ending. It's what I have been saying all along.

    That's patently false. Look up the expression "The buck stops here".

    Or Bush saying "I'm the decider". He was roundly mocked for a grammatical error, but the message was "I'm the President, and I bear responsibility".

    Obama does not accept responsibility or accountability. Nor does Goodell.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    You are critical of who the league or roger??? I'm hard pressed to think of a time when I was supportive of Roger, but I love that he let there be a Superbowl in an open cold weather stadium. Suppose that's what you are looking for.

    As I have stated he knows of the flaws and he does nothing but wash his hands and put his head in the sand. He has not shown me anything that he is addressing the situation and until then I will not back down from my stance.
    I was critical of both.

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Why do people say the problem isn't with the fines, it's with consistency? The problem is absolutely with the fines. Goodell could be as consistent as he wanted with that, and all he'd be doing is being consistently shitty. I could care less whether the Steelers get fined the most, or some other team does, or everyone gets fined the same amount; if anyone is getting fined under his new way of doing things, it's a detriment to the game. Go ahead, fine everyone the same, make it a completely level playing field; you're still ruining the game with bullshit.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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