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Thread: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

  1. #31
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    You know what, that wasn't fair. I shouldn't have just tossed off an answer like that, Chidi. I know you know your stuff, and sometimes I'm guilty of lumping people into groups.

    Even though I only spent a couple minutes thinking off the top of my head of a couple things I would do about the NFL, I know you spent more than that formulating a reply, so I should reciprocate. However, I want to preface that with the FACT that at least some of my "off-the-cuff" ideas have more veracity than the garbage the NFL is masquerading now as a lucid policy.

    I'll take these point by point:

    1. Of COURSE rules are fluid and dynamic. What I'm saying is set a firm policy and then adjust. What the NFL is doing now is trying to "boil the frog" by making little adjustments here and there and over time it will result in something sweeping. That's nonsense and won't fly. Make a drastic change now!
    2. X=Y scenario. It's workable. We already have it in our criminal justice system.
    3. I VEHEMENTLY disagree with No flag AND fine. It's ridiculous. If the refs can't see it (and they don't see a lot), so what? They miss almost everything going on in the trenches. You want to fine non-flag penalties? Then you better set up yet ANOTHER board to scrutinize every single play from every single angle and fine EVERYTHING. Oh...wait? Not enough cameras to see everything? Add more cameras! See the slippery slope. It's a violent game. Violence happens. If the ref sees it, flag it and fine it. If not, then no.
    4. The rest of this I'm lumping into one big mess.

    Goodell aside, the NFL is a much different animal then soccer or basketball or baseball. We are talking 9 billion bucks a year, and for a truly violent sport. The checks and balances in place now are thin without being transparent, and there but not widely understood. Bring everything out into the light. Add more layers. Coaches, refs, players, lawyers, owners reps, etc, etc...they all need to be represented.

    I look back at a VERY evasive Roger Goodell in his 2009 Congressional hearings and then I see a bunch of the same knee-jerk reactionary retroactive garbage I see everywhere else. 3rd grader takes a gun to school? Let's start frisking all 3rd graders! That kind of thing...everything Goodell has done is CYA (Cover Your Ass). He's a liar and he's hiding and docking and dodging...and that's NOT the way to handle this.

    OWN UP! YES! The NFL is violent sport! Concussions happen, and we DID know, but we didn't know how bad it was. So set-up some type of long-term safety net where vested players always have a safe haven and free healthcare forever to deal with it. Don't give BU CSTE a million dollar bribe. Don't hide and duck. Don't deny it, OWN IT! Pay the players in the class action suit before EVERY ex-player gets on board and end this! Own it, address it, end it, fix the game with solid rules that are responsible and make sense and get back to playing football.

    Goodell's legacy will be based on this. So far he's done nothing but placate everyone in order to keep revenues up and is ducking and dodging his REAL responsibility which is to be a true Steward of the game.
    Fire Goodell

  2. #32
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Will be interesting to see what "common" compensation the NFL finally ends up giving to it's former players. You understand the risks when joining the military, but at least (if you get injured while on duty) your "supposed" to get a check for life. Hope these guys and their loved ones at least get something similar.

    As we used to say as kids when playing: "the helmet and pads aren't meant to protect us from injury, but are there so that you can hit and hurt your opponent harder".

  3. #33
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    You know what, that wasn't fair. I shouldn't have just tossed off an answer like that, Chidi. I know you know your stuff, and sometimes I'm guilty of lumping people into groups.

    Even though I only spent a couple minutes thinking off the top of my head of a couple things I would do about the NFL, I know you spent more than that formulating a reply, so I should reciprocate. However, I want to preface that with the FACT that at least some of my "off-the-cuff" ideas have more veracity than the garbage the NFL is masquerading now as a lucid policy.

    I'll take these point by point:

    1. Of COURSE rules are fluid and dynamic. What I'm saying is set a firm policy and then adjust. What the NFL is doing now is trying to "boil the frog" by making little adjustments here and there and over time it will result in something sweeping. That's nonsense and won't fly. Make a drastic change now!
    2. X=Y scenario. It's workable. We already have it in our criminal justice system.
    3. I VEHEMENTLY disagree with No flag AND fine. It's ridiculous. If the refs can't see it (and they don't see a lot), so what? They miss almost everything going on in the trenches. You want to fine non-flag penalties? Then you better set up yet ANOTHER board to scrutinize every single play from every single angle and fine EVERYTHING. Oh...wait? Not enough cameras to see everything? Add more cameras! See the slippery slope. It's a violent game. Violence happens. If the ref sees it, flag it and fine it. If not, then no.
    4. The rest of this I'm lumping into one big mess.

    Goodell aside, the NFL is a much different animal then soccer or basketball or baseball. We are talking 9 billion bucks a year, and for a truly violent sport. The checks and balances in place now are thin without being transparent, and there but not widely understood. Bring everything out into the light. Add more layers. Coaches, refs, players, lawyers, owners reps, etc, etc...they all need to be represented.

    I look back at a VERY evasive Roger Goodell in his 2009 Congressional hearings and then I see a bunch of the same knee-jerk reactionary retroactive garbage I see everywhere else. 3rd grader takes a gun to school? Let's start frisking all 3rd graders! That kind of thing...everything Goodell has done is CYA (Cover Your Ass). He's a liar and he's hiding and docking and dodging...and that's NOT the way to handle this.

    OWN UP! YES! The NFL is violent sport! Concussions happen, and we DID know, but we didn't know how bad it was. So set-up some type of long-term safety net where vested players always have a safe haven and free healthcare forever to deal with it. Don't give BU CSTE a million dollar bribe. Don't hide and duck. Don't deny it, OWN IT! Pay the players in the class action suit before EVERY ex-player gets on board and end this! Own it, address it, end it, fix the game with solid rules that are responsible and make sense and get back to playing football.

    Goodell's legacy will be based on this. So far he's done nothing but placate everyone in order to keep revenues up and is ducking and dodging his REAL responsibility which is to be a true Steward of the game.
    Well I'm glad you know what I was thinking and how long it took me to come up with a reply. I guess you know my mind better than I do. So if you could help me with my math homework when I go back to school, that'd be fantastic suit.

    It actually didn't take me much time to come up with a reply. I know how the appeals system works off the top of my head. I've had this discussion a hundred times with people on here (and met with a brick wall, one hundred times. Make that 101).

    I do my research. I look for the facts.

    When you're talking about changing of the guards regarding the new concussion policy, it's difficult to see what rules are needed all at once. Again, the league has always added a little bit at a time. These changes are typically made in the offseason to give players the time to adjust. The time two years ago when the league tightened up the way they did was a mistake, sure. An understandable one because of the injury risks they were watching but it wasn't handled well. No question about that. Hasn't happened since.

    Take a look at all the rule changes throughout the history of the league.

    http://nflhealthandsafety.com/commitment/evolution/

    The league has a firm set of rules now. The rules they have going into each year are the rules they work with. So they're doing what you want. Have a set of rules and adjust in the offseason with the competition committee.

    Is the criminal justice system really objective, black and white? Have you taken a look at it lately? And we don't even know if the league's rulings are really arbitrary. We have little to zero knowledge of what is happening in the appelas process. We don't hear the evidence. Who are we to judge?

    This isn't about "too bad, the ref missed it, we'll let it go". That's not the message being sent to the players and definitely would not be consistent with player safety. If a player is caught for an illegal hit, he should be punished. Simple as that.

    The refs watch every single player each week. I told you that. That board already exists. You again are asking for things that exist.

    Fine everything? What are you talking about? We fine the hits that are fineable based on what the league and union agreed upon. Not every penalty means there's a fine.

    The transparency is there. You just have to actually look for that. Too many people don't want to actually read a CBA or poke around the NFL's Health and Safety website. They'd rather caps lock rage at Goodell with their crazy conspiracy theories about how the league is out to "get us".

    Even if you think Goodell was dodging then, he isn't now. He's attacking the concussion problem with full force.

    This ties into your other post. The league's pension has gotten much, much stronger since the new agreements the past year. We now have the 88 plan, named after John Mackey. A summary of it, per a part of the union's website.

    The 88 Plan is designed to assist players who are vested under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle NFL Player Retirement Plan ("Retirement Plan") and who are determined to have amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), Parkinson’s diseases, and/or dementia, as this condition is defined in the 88 Plan.

    The 88 Plan will pay the cost of medical and custodial care for eligible players, including institutional custodial care, institutional charges, home custodial care provided by an unrelated third party, physician services, durable medical equipment, and prescription medicine.

    Named for Pro Football Hall of Famer and NFL legend John Mackey, the 88 Plan is the first program of its kind in this country. The 88 Plan provides former players with up to $100,000 per year for medical and custodial care resulting from dementia, Alzheimer’s disease, ALS, and/or Parkinson’s disease. More than $16 million has been distributed to players and their families through this benefit since its inception in September 2007.


    So you wanted, "So set-up some type of long-term safety net where vested players always have a safe haven and free healthcare forever to deal with it"

    From what I posted, "The 88 Plan is designed to assist players who are vested....The 88 Plan provides former players with up to $100,000 per year for medical and custodial care resulting from dementia, Alzheimer’s disease, ALS, and/or Parkinson’s disease."

    Suit, you dog you. Did you set this plan up? I bet you are Roger Goodell and this is all some crazy ruse.

  4. #34
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    And from what you called me earlier. Sure, that was condescending. But hello, look who is calling me that. Talk about pot calling the kettle black....

  5. #35

    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    Really? Give me a name. How do we know a different guy wouldn't be in there doing the exact same things?

    I'm with all of you as far as the punishments go. I have never understood Goodell on that one. Very very inconsistent. But everything else is made out to be so easy I just don't know if anyone can satisfy the majority of fans.
    The proof is in the history of those who have held the position. NEVER in the history of the modern league has there been a commisioner that is so obviously in the pockets of the owners...ignoring his responsibility to the players and the fans. NEVER in the history of the modern league has there been a commisioner that is so obviously unable to fairly and judicially enforce HIS OWN RULES. Never in the history of the modern league has there been a commisioner that has put dollar signs before fan needs to the extent that this "politician" has.

    The question isnt really who could do a better job....but at what point will he be forced out. Its coming....the unrest among fans and players is building. Read ANY fan forum and you can see the discontent that those of us, who support this league with our hard earned wages, are feeling.

    This commisioners saving grace is that 60% of fans are not as "invested" as those of us who pay attention. Its only a matter of time before the discontent creeps down into the mindset of the masses as they become more informed.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    1 at a time Array title="Count Steeler has a reputation beyond repute"> Count Steeler's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    The proof is in the history of those who have held the position. NEVER in the history of the modern league has there been a commisioner that is so obviously in the pockets of the owners...ignoring his responsibility to the players and the fans. NEVER in the history of the modern league has there been a commisioner that is so obviously unable to fairly and judicially enforce HIS OWN RULES. Never in the history of the modern league has there been a commisioner that has put dollar signs before fan needs to the extent that this "politician" has.

    The question isnt really who could do a better job....but at what point will he be forced out. Its coming....the unrest among fans and players is building. Read ANY fan forum and you can see the discontent that those of us, who support this league with our hard earned wages, are feeling.

    This commisioners saving grace is that 60% of fans are not as "invested" as those of us who pay attention. Its only a matter of time before the discontent creeps down into the mindset of the masses as they become more informed.
    Unfortunately, the owners will not take notice until the revenues start dropping. With a new TV deal set to kick in 2014?, they will all be singing "Happy Days are here again", rather than looking down the road at the impending fan rebellion. At that point, the game may be beyond recognition and beyond repair.

  7. #37
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    $100k per year?

    Not enough. It needs to be a bottomless pit of money. Know why? Because it's a 9 BILLION dollar industry. If the players are going to take the risks, they need to know any and everything is covered forever. My mom was in the hospital for three days two years ago for a small heart thing. The bill: $129,000. 100k today is almost nothing. The Mackey plan is another half measure designed to be a talking point and a quick and easy thing for talking heads and NFL sycophants to point to and say "We care! We care!". Nonsense. It's another half-assed reactive knee-jerk response to cover asses...not a solution at all.

    One last thing, then I'm done with this whole abortion of a debate. "We don't hear the evidence"? THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM!

    When the commissioner flushes all the cheating evidence of the Pats down the toilet, that's not a solution, THAT'S a GIANT FUCKING PROBLEM!

    Goodell is in the back pocket of the owners. He speaks like he cares about the players and the fans, and he does but only to the degree that he has to in order to protect the best interests of the owners (which really means revenue generation). Making excuses for this is deplorable.

    I also have a degree in Criminal Justice. Would you care to lecture me on how that system works? Our criminal justice system is heavily flawed. it's also the best in the world, and the penalty system is ten thousand times more sensible and workable then the NFL's.
    Fire Goodell

  8. #38

    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post

    ......The league has a firm set of rules now.
    Firm? You must mean like ....
    Horse Collar Tackle: First offense: $15,000/ subsequent offense: $30,000
    http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/09/15/nfl-...es-discipline/

    ..... And we don't even know if the league's rulings are really arbitrary
    We dont?...Really?
    "Flacco fined $7,500 for horse-collar tackle"
    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...-collar-tackle
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

  9. #39
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    How about causing injury by laying a judo flip on a guy like Trent Cole did to Russell Okung last year (which ripped Okung's pec muscle) and only getting fined $7500 for it, while Earl Bennett was fined $10,000 for............................wearing orange shoes. I only wish I was making that one up...
    Fire Goodell

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    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    If things keep up along the same course, I think it's pretty likely that football ends up kind of like boxing, where people are well aware of the risks but some choose to do it anyway. Although not as many people, and it's no longer seen as a "glamor sport," so the overall quality goes down and it becomes a sport of the lower classes. But people still watch it, and people still play it; they finaly reaqch a balance where they don't have to change the rules and nobody's going to sue. That's more of a 15-years-out kind of thing, though.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  11. #41
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    $100k per year?

    Not enough. It needs to be a bottomless pit of money. Know why? Because it's a 9 BILLION dollar industry. If the players are going to take the risks, they need to know any and everything is covered forever. My mom was in the hospital for three days two years ago for a small heart thing. The bill: $129,000. 100k today is almost nothing. The Mackey plan is another half measure designed to be a talking point and a quick and easy thing for talking heads and NFL sycophants to point to and say "We care! We care!". Nonsense. It's another half-assed reactive knee-jerk response to cover asses...not a solution at all.

    One last thing, then I'm done with this whole abortion of a debate. "We don't hear the evidence"? THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM!

    When the commissioner flushes all the cheating evidence of the Pats down the toilet, that's not a solution, THAT'S a GIANT FUCKING PROBLEM!

    Goodell is in the back pocket of the owners. He speaks like he cares about the players and the fans, and he does but only to the degree that he has to in order to protect the best interests of the owners (which really means revenue generation). Making excuses for this is deplorable.

    I also have a degree in Criminal Justice. Would you care to lecture me on how that system works? Our criminal justice system is heavily flawed. it's also the best in the world, and the penalty system is ten thousand times more sensible and workable then the NFL's.
    I don't know how feasible bottomless would work. The pension plan covers a lot of players and while the league is obviously loaded, it's not an infinite amount of money. And bottomless leaves it open to being abused.

    The league also introduced a new and much, much better pension plan. Before the new plan, players were getting less than $200 a month. Now, they're getting close to $2000. This goes on for the rest of their life and extends to their beneficiaries' life as well.

    The criminal justice system is also solely just that...criminal justice. It's not practical to try and make a system where a player has to nearly take the BAR exam just to play in the league. There are outlines of certain punishments. Not as rigid as the criminal justice system is but what else is?

  12. #42
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Firm? You must mean like ....
    Horse Collar Tackle: First offense: $15,000/ subsequent offense: $30,000
    http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/09/15/nfl-...es-discipline/



    We dont?...Really?
    "Flacco fined $7,500 for horse-collar tackle"
    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...-collar-tackle
    So you think the league is intentionally showing favoritism to Flacco and QBs without having a legitimate reason for it?

  13. #43
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Two things pop up into my mind.

    One, when I was a kid starting college, and knew everything about everything in the Universe, I was going to become a politician via being a lawyer, perhaps even a cop.

    So I took courses in a lot of things (including writing and marketing, which is what I do now), but my major was criminal justice, and my minor was PolySci. As I learned more about both, and because I have morals and principles which guide me (don't be fooled by the MB persona or the constant cussing...both those just serve a purpose), I decided that the more I learned about the criminal justice system, the less I wanted to participate, and I also learned that the World needs no more lawyers. That's because I kept my eyes and my mind open and I saw what a monster politics was, and what a horrible career being a cop could be, and that many of this Countries troubles lie in the fact that we have too many damned lawyers. So I changed course. I LEARNED by listening and observing that what I thought was good and noble and just was....perhaps not so much.

    The other thing is more of an interesting, um...........parable. I knew a girl who's life's ambition was to become a Shamu trainer at Sea World. She spent her whole life doing everything she could (Marine Biology degree with courses in psych, swimming lessons, lifeguard jobs, etc, etc...). She didn't get hired her first year out of college because there aren't a ton of openings for such things, so she took a job in the Education department giving tours and stuff. That first summer, a job opened up. She applied, tested, and got it. Her dream was fulfilled! A lifetime of hard work rewarded!




    She was fired three months later for sleeping with one of the other trainers. Expelled from Sea World forever.

    Some people won't even understand why I'm posting these things in this thread. That's fine. Hopefully the right people will.
    Fire Goodell

  14. #44
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Two things pop up into my mind.

    One, when I was a kid starting college, and knew everything about everything in the Universe, I was going to become a politician via being a lawyer, perhaps even a cop.

    So I took courses in a lot of things (including writing and marketing, which is what I do now), but my major was criminal justice, and my minor was PolySci. As I learned more about both, and because I have morals and principles which guide me (don't be fooled by the MB persona or the constant cussing...both those just serve a purpose), I decided that the more I learned about the criminal justice system, the less I wanted to participate, and I also learned that the World needs no more lawyers. That's because I kept my eyes and my mind open and I saw what a monster politics was, and what a horrible career being a cop could be, and that many of this Countries troubles lie in the fact that we have too many damned lawyers. So I changed course. I LEARNED by listening and observing that what I thought was good and noble and just was....perhaps not so much.

    The other thing is more of an interesting, um...........parable. I knew a girl who's life's ambition was to become a Shamu trainer at Sea World. She spent her whole life doing everything she could (Marine Biology degree with courses in psych, swimming lessons, lifeguard jobs, etc, etc...). She didn't get hired her first year out of college because there aren't a ton of openings for such things, so she took a job in the Education department giving tours and stuff. That first summer, a job opened up. She applied, tested, and got it. Her dream was fulfilled! A lifetime of hard work rewarded!




    She was fired three months later for sleeping with one of the other trainers. Expelled from Sea World forever.

    Some people won't even understand why I'm posting these things in this thread. That's fine. Hopefully the right people will.
    So this is the humble version of suit? I can only imagine what you were like before.

    I'm glad you think swearing serves a purpose. I just thought you enjoyed being banned.

  15. #45
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    So this is the humble version of suit? I can only imagine what you were like before.

    I'm glad you think swearing serves a purpose. I just thought you enjoyed being banned.
    I never said humble. I am, however, continually fascinated by kids who, although their brains haven't even fully developed (true fact...doesn't happen until between 21-30...you can look it up) already know everything about everything and usually dismiss older wiser, more experienced people as not knowing shit. But, I will say this. When I was your age, I was just as big of a know-it-all while actually knowing just as little as you currently do. But I started figuring some things out...

    I've never been banned for cussing. How could you not know that? Perhaps....just perhaps, there may be one, or, um, two other things you don't know as well.
    Fire Goodell

  16. #46
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    You know what, that wasn't fair. I shouldn't have just tossed off an answer like that, Chidi. I know you know your stuff, and sometimes I'm guilty of lumping people into groups.
    You post this which gives the guy respect he deserves...

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I never said humble. I am, however, continually fascinated by kids who, although their brains haven't even fully developed (true fact...doesn't happen until between 21-30...you can look it up) already know everything about everything and usually dismiss older wiser, more experienced people as not knowing shit. But, I will say this. When I was your age, I was just as big of a know-it-all while actually knowing just as little as you currently do. But I started figuring some things out...

    I've never been banned for cussing. How could you not know that? Perhaps....just perhaps, there may be one, or, um, two other things you don't know as well.
    And now he doesn't even know that he doesn't know anything because he is young...

    Uhh what?
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
    ~Rest In Peace HometownGal~

  17. #47
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    You post this which gives the guy respect he deserves...



    And now he doesn't even know that he doesn't know anything because he is young...

    Uhh what?
    He knows football.

    Life experience? Maybe not so much. My girlfriend has a 22 year old son, and 14 and 15 year old girls. They are all super geniuses who know everything about everything, so I'm intimately familiar with the mindset.

    And, again, I never said humble. I said morals and principles.
    Fire Goodell

  18. #48
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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Besides, what does any of this have to do with the original post? George Will is smarter than all of us combined, and he is 100% right. The game will change, and change for the worse, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Those of us who AREN'T shilling for the league because we want to work for it one day are obviously unshackled by any obligations to cheer lead and fly the flag for every stupid and/or inconsistent edict issued from it.
    Fire Goodell

  19. #49
    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    I don't know you brought up the age thing and this is a football related discussion not life so idk why.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
    ~Rest In Peace HometownGal~

  20. #50
    raising him properly Array title="vasteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> vasteeler's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    cant we get through just 1 thread without having to read all the bullshit

    "Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch

  21. #51
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    I brought it up because that (his young age and relative inexperience), and the fact that he wants to work for the NFL are CLEARLY biasing his opinion. I think it's important to disclose that kind of information if one is going to opine on a subject...it's important and germane to know why a person has an opinion that on it's face makes little to no sense...like defending the owners stooge, Roger Goodell.

    I don't think disclosure and exposition is "bullshit".
    Fire Goodell

  22. #52
    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Ok well is it fair to say you too have a clearly biased opinion because you grew up with the game being much different and you can see a more noticeable change that he and myself didn't experience?
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
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  23. #53
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    Ok well is it fair to say you too have a clearly biased opinion because you grew up with the game being much different and you can see a more noticeable change that he and myself didn't experience?

    Football was a contact sport for 110 years. It's become something else in the last 5-10. If wanting to cling to 110 years of tradition, as well as the way the sport is STILL played in College and High School makes me "biased", so be it.

    That argument makes almost no sense. It's more like someone posting on here how much they love a marginal player like Trai Essex, and coming on here and posting how he's the best lineman the Steelers have, and how he should be starting, and making 10 million a year, and making the Pro Bowl, and eventually deserves to be in the HOF.

    And then you find out the poster is his MOTHER. THEN the kind of nonsensical posts make a little more sense in context.
    Fire Goodell

  24. #54
    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Football was a contact sport for 110 years. It's become something else in the last 5-10. If wanting to cling to 110 years of tradition, as well as the way the sport is STILL played in College and High School makes me "biased", so be it.

    That argument makes almost no sense. It's more like someone posting on here how much they love a marginal player like Trai Essex, and coming on here and posting how he's the best lineman the Steelers have, and how he should be starting, and making 10 million a year, and making the Pro Bowl, and eventually deserves to be in the HOF.

    And then you find out the poster is his MOTHER. THEN the kind of nonsensical posts make a little more sense in context.
    There are rules for safety in High School and College too. For example in High School did you know it is illegal for a ball carrier to hurdle a defender? It's a safety rule.

    We are also talking about games that aren't nearly as physically demanding as the Pros. There are harder hits and its obviously more dangerous. So I'm talking about the NFL. Not any other football league.

    The game has changed a lot but that is the way I've ever known it. Sure Goodell pisses me off a lot and I don't agree with some of these BS penalties but maybe not to the extent as some of the older people (no offense) because I never knew the game any other way.

    It's the level of hate toward Goodell. Yours is greater then mine.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
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  25. #55
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    I'm not happy about the way he's destroying the game I love. Eventually, I'll stop watching. And I am unhappy that there are people who are defending the dismantling of the game...it doesn't HAVE to be this way, but it also looks like it's becoming inevitable.
    Fire Goodell

  26. #56
    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I'm not happy about the way he's destroying the game I love. Eventually, I'll stop watching. And I am unhappy that there are people who are defending the dismantling of the game...it doesn't HAVE to be this way, but it also looks like it's becoming inevitable.
    I can understand that. I for one won't stop watching but that is just me. However I'll probably have a list of things to blame Goodell on throughout this year.

    I guess I'll always judge Goodell case by case. Most of the time I'll disagree with him but I'm not above giving him credit when it's due.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
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  27. #57
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I never said humble. I am, however, continually fascinated by kids who, although their brains haven't even fully developed (true fact...doesn't happen until between 21-30...you can look it up) already know everything about everything and usually dismiss older wiser, more experienced people as not knowing shit. But, I will say this. When I was your age, I was just as big of a know-it-all while actually knowing just as little as you currently do. But I started figuring some things out...

    I've never been banned for cussing. How could you not know that? Perhaps....just perhaps, there may be one, or, um, two other things you don't know as well.
    And I never said I know everything because I don't. You said I know football and that's what we're discussing. When we're discussing life, I'll defer to you. But I haven't said anything about it.

  28. #58
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I brought it up because that (his young age and relative inexperience), and the fact that he wants to work for the NFL are CLEARLY biasing his opinion. I think it's important to disclose that kind of information if one is going to opine on a subject...it's important and germane to know why a person has an opinion that on it's face makes little to no sense...like defending the owners stooge, Roger Goodell.

    I don't think disclosure and exposition is "bullshit".
    You don't know what my career goals are. I've already had this discussion with Aussie. I highly doubt I'll ever work for the NFL.

    Again, the problem with this board is that you're only allowed to have one opinion of Roger Goodell. You can either hate him or you can be wrong.

  29. #59
    1 at a time Array title="Count Steeler has a reputation beyond repute"> Count Steeler's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    You don't know what my career goals are. I've already had this discussion with Aussie. I highly doubt I'll ever work for the NFL.

    Again, the problem with some of the people on this board is that you're only allowed to have one opinion of Roger Goodell. You can either hate him or you can be wrong.
    Fixed it Chidi. Don't paint with a wide brush. I'm sure your perception is that you are against the whole Universe, but I don't think that is accurate.

  30. #60
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: George Will on the NFL: It cannot be fixed and still be the game we love

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    Fixed it Chidi. Don't paint with a wide brush. I'm sure your perception is that you are against the whole Universe, but I don't think that is accurate.
    Just wait for the first Steeler to be fined and you'll be reminded of how many people throw out ten year old insults to Goodell.

    At the very least, there are only a half dozen at most people who post regularly on this board that don't hate Goodell.

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