Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 67

Thread: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28,369

    NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    https://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/...le-for-Review/


    For months, the NFL Players Association requested access to the information gathered during the NFL's supposedly extensive investigation into the alleged Saints' bounty program. Though league officials repeatedly refused to provide the supposed evidence, per the CBA, the NFL was forced to provide documents three days before the hearing.

    On Friday, the NFL provided 16 exhibits to the NFLPA that would be used against the players in today's hearing. While the exhibits can hardly be characterized as hard evidence, the NFLPA worked with various sources to help define what the items in the exhibits meant.

    Click here to review the NFLPA's annotated version of select items in the exhibits:


    Exhibits 1-12

    https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaR...its%201-12.pdf



    League Exhibits 13-16

    https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaR...ts%2013-16.pdf

  2. #2
    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    28,369

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence





  3. #3
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Wow....just wow. I half read/half skimmed, but I'm definitely going over the second pdf file with a fine tooth comb. Please check it out. It's longer than War and Peace but is an incredible story that I haven't really even made sense of yet (it seems to point the finger at all sides, the story about a man, Sean Pamphillion, who was betrayed and left out to dry) but offers some great insight into the NFL.

    I don't know what to make of Fujita. After reading that, part of it makes me think the suspension was too harsh, part of me says otherwise.

    In the first file, a lot of the evidence is junk, slideshows that show more about scouting reports than anything evidence (thought that may show that the league didn't cut off any parts of the slides). But there are pieces here and there with the biggest one coming on page 85. It seems to show that on the left column, Vilma, Vitt, Hargrove, and Fujita are putting money into the pool. The right column is the payout. Remember, we're not just looking for evidence of the bounty program. I think even the biggest anti-NFL guy would admit that a bounty scandal occured. We're looking for evidence that, per Goodell's words,

    "In assessing player discipline," Goodell said in a statement, "I focused on players who were in leadership positions at the Saints; contributed a particularly large sum of money toward the program; specifically contributed to a bounty on an opposing player; demonstrated a clear intent to participate in a program that potentially injured opposing players; sought rewards for doing so; and/or obstructed the 2010 investigation." (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...155350881.html)

    So evidence that these players had a major role in the program.

    The one thing I ask of anyone reading these documents is to take their time and carefully read everything. Don't jump to conclusions. There is around 200 pages to comb through. Do your homework.

    Aside from the scandal, it is kinda cool to see scouting reports and film breakdown. Nice little insight into a current NFL playbook. Will be a fun read after the bounty stuff.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array title="Godfather has a brilliant future">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Mississippi Gulf Coast
    Posts
    3,393

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Aside from the scandal, it is kinda cool to see scouting reports and film breakdown. Nice little insight into a current NFL playbook. Will be a fun read after the bounty stuff.
    Given the performance of the Saints defense the last couple of years, I'm not sure I would call that an NFL playbook. Probably why the NFL felt comfortable releasing it.

  5. #5
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
    Given the performance of the Saints defense the last couple of years, I'm not sure I would call that an NFL playbook. Probably why the NFL felt comfortable releasing it.
    lol

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    From Peter King's twitter:

    Saints info 2: Joe Vitt denied telling Hargrove to lie to NFL investigators and denied putting $5k in pot to KO Favre--for the record.

    This reminds me of the lie Goodell told King leading into the Super Bowl when he claimed Ben had no support among his teammates.

    The fucker just shapes the evidence whatever way he pleases, truth be damned.

    Sorry Chidi, but how you continue to support this lying power hungry ass wipe I just don't know? .
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  7. #7

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    It should be noted..especially in light of this "evidence"....that the saints players do not deny being fined after games for "mental mistakes" and being compensated for player performance. However...the litmus test is going to be whether they were paid to injure players.

    For the record.....Vilma and Fujita have NEVER been flagged or fined for illegal hits.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

  8. #8
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    From Peter King's twitter:

    Saints info 2: Joe Vitt denied telling Hargrove to lie to NFL investigators and denied putting $5k in pot to KO Favre--for the record.

    This reminds me of the lie Goodell told King leading into the Super Bowl when he claimed Ben had no support among his teammates.

    The fucker just shapes the evidence whatever way he pleases, truth be damned.

    Sorry Chidi, but how you continue to support this lying power hungry ass wipe I just don't know? .
    200+ page pdf file full of the evidence the NFL has or....

    Tweet from Peter King

    Everyone loves to go with the one that's quicker to read.

    And sure, lt's trust Vitt. His credibility is solid.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    I don't think anyone denies some punishment was in order. But what bothers most of us is the complete lack of due process administered by his highness, and that all of power sits with one person.

    Every sportswriter who's reviewed the information the league made available yesterday is saying the punishments were excessive.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    200+ page pdf file full of the evidence the NFL has or....

    Tweet from Peter King

    Everyone loves to go with the one that's quicker to read.

    And sure, lt's trust Vitt. His credibility is solid.
    Farrior said Goodell out and out lied about his teammates thoughts about Ben. Now Vitt is saying that his statements are being misrepresented. In this case I believe Vitt. Goodell is a lying scum.

    I hope Vilma digs up enough dirt in his civil trial to get that lying piece of shit out of office once and for all.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Another player’s now saying it’s their own fault Goodell has all those titles. Chiefs right tackle Eric Winston told Jim Corbett of USA Today he regretted the fact the NFLPA didn’t push harder against it during CBA negotiations.

    “Obviously we don’t want Roger Goodell having absolute power,” Winston said. “In a lot of this process, it seems like he does. It’s unfortunate. It seems like he’s running amok with it and deciding to do what he wants and it really doesn’t matter what the evidence says. Unfortunately, we don’t have an alternative option to appeal to.

    “In that CBA bargaining process, you’re not going to get everything you want. That’s not to say we weren’t trying to curb some of that (power). To say we weren’t trying to do something about that is false. Just from what’s been told to me, there were attempts made. And there’s a tradeoff. To do that, we probably looked at sacrificing playing less games, so you always look at the risk and reward. And try to juggle that.”

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/

    Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  12. #12
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Gender
    Posts
    24,127

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Another player’s now saying it’s their own fault Goodell has all those titles. Chiefs right tackle Eric Winston told Jim Corbett of USA Today he regretted the fact the NFLPA didn’t push harder against it during CBA negotiations.

    “Obviously we don’t want Roger Goodell having absolute power,” Winston said. “In a lot of this process, it seems like he does. It’s unfortunate. It seems like he’s running amok with it and deciding to do what he wants and it really doesn’t matter what the evidence says. Unfortunately, we don’t have an alternative option to appeal to.
    Yet the Steelers contingent were accused of displaying "ignorance" by being the sole dissenting voice against the new CBA. Now that it isn't a Steelers player (or players) getting crapped on by King Assclown for a change, people have a problem with it? Sorry, don't want to hear it.

    Guess the Steelers don't look so "ignorant" now, huh?

    “In that CBA bargaining process, you’re not going to get everything you want. That’s not to say we weren’t trying to curb some of that (power). To say we weren’t trying to do something about that is false. Just from what’s been told to me, there were attempts made.
    Bullshit. The ONLY players that were voicing concern about this during those negotiations were Steelers players, and they were widely ridiculed as being a bunch of cheap shot artists and thugs who can't play by the rules and for not being "good little soldiers" by rubber-stamping the new CBA like everyone else did. Well, he who laughs last...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array title="GodfatherofSoul is a jewel in the rough"> GodfatherofSoul's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kansas City
    Gender
    Posts
    1,828

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Damn this is just like Star Wars. Goodell's gone from pissant Senator from a backwater planet to Emperor. I bet he starts wearing a cloak this season and his eyes start glowing yellow.

  14. #14
    Once, we were L Legends Array title="oneforthetoe has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Steelers Nation
    Posts
    3,216

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    I can not stand Goodell, but I still have no sympathy for the Saints. I am convinced they ran this program, even after they knew the NFL was investigating it, and even after they told the NFL it wasn't hapeening.

    It's like two arrogant storms hitting into each other.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array title="steeldawg is a jewel in the rough">

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,533

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Hey Vilma! Hows that defamation suit looking for you?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    Damn this is just like Star Wars. Goodell's gone from pissant Senator from a backwater planet to Emperor. I bet he starts wearing a cloak this season and his eyes start glowing yellow.
    That's a photo shop waiting to happen!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  17. #17
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforthetoe View Post
    I can not stand Goodell, but I still have no sympathy for the Saints. I am convinced they ran this program, even after they knew the NFL was investigating it, and even after they told the NFL it wasn't hapeening.

    It's like two arrogant storms hitting into each other.
    No question they deserve to be disciplined. They crossed the line and got caught. It's a matter of how much and how the process is enforced with so much power in one man's hands that concerns me.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  18. #18
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post



    One thing that seems inaccurate in this explanation is that it seems to imply that Williams used this in his first season to introduce to concept, "When GW arrive, players weren't familiar"

    But one of the pictures at the top of the slides seems to show Big Mike Williams who wasn't apart of the Seahawks until a full season AFTER Williams was named the DC of the Saints. So if this was just used to illustrate the concept to the team because nearly all of them wouldn't know what it was, why is it being used at least one year later?

    Just a thought. Doesn't make or break anything.

  19. #19
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    It should be noted..especially in light of this "evidence"....that the saints players do not deny being fined after games for "mental mistakes" and being compensated for player performance. However...the litmus test is going to be whether they were paid to injure players.

    For the record.....Vilma and Fujita have NEVER been flagged or fined for illegal hits.
    I realize that you're just making a point on the last sentence, and it sinerely is a good one, but it apeears that the hits didn't have to be dirty or even intentional for the player to get money. Don't know if you saw the article but one "cart off" reward appeared to be when Roman Harper accidently fell into the leg of Kareem McKenize trying to tackle Eli Manning. Totally unintentional and still got him money.

  20. #20
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I don't think anyone denies some punishment was in order. But what bothers most of us is the complete lack of due process administered by his highness, and that all of power sits with one person.

    Every sportswriter who's reviewed the information the league made available yesterday is saying the punishments were excessive.
    This system is the same as any other discipline process. The league spent three years gathering info, made their decision, and the players have been allowed to appeal (twice, when most players get one).

    Everyone once said the Earth was flat. Everyone says Goodell is Hitler. Doesn't make it true. Especially if we're deciding our opinions based on tweets rather than the actual info.

  21. #21
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Farrior said Goodell out and out lied about his teammates thoughts about Ben. Now Vitt is saying that his statements are being misrepresented. In this case I believe Vitt. Goodell is a lying scum.

    I hope Vilma digs up enough dirt in his civil trial to get that lying piece of shit out of office once and for all.
    Tell me how you really feel zu.

    Careful, your bias is showing.

  22. #22
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Another player’s now saying it’s their own fault Goodell has all those titles. Chiefs right tackle Eric Winston told Jim Corbett of USA Today he regretted the fact the NFLPA didn’t push harder against it during CBA negotiations.

    “Obviously we don’t want Roger Goodell having absolute power,” Winston said. “In a lot of this process, it seems like he does. It’s unfortunate. It seems like he’s running amok with it and deciding to do what he wants and it really doesn’t matter what the evidence says. Unfortunately, we don’t have an alternative option to appeal to.

    “In that CBA bargaining process, you’re not going to get everything you want. That’s not to say we weren’t trying to curb some of that (power). To say we weren’t trying to do something about that is false. Just from what’s been told to me, there were attempts made. And there’s a tradeoff. To do that, we probably looked at sacrificing playing less games, so you always look at the risk and reward. And try to juggle that.”

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/

    Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    Of course, because when I want information on the Goodell vs Saints bount scandal, I turn to....the former Texans and currents Chiefs right tackle.

    "And there’s a tradeoff. To do that, we probably looked at sacrificing playing less games"

    I'm not entirely sure what he's saying but if he is trying to comment that the league offered a 16 game schedule instead of 18 to let Goodell keep his "absolute power", he is wrong on both counts.

  23. #23
    Geek God Array title="X-Terminator has a reputation beyond repute"> X-Terminator's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Posts
    9,152

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Of course, because when I want information on the Goodell vs Saints bount scandal, I turn to....the former Texans and currents Chiefs right tackle.

    "And there’s a tradeoff. To do that, we probably looked at sacrificing playing less games"

    I'm not entirely sure what he's saying but if he is trying to comment that the league offered a 16 game schedule instead of 18 to let Goodell keep his "absolute power", he is wrong on both counts.
    He's saying that they let him keep his power in order to start the season on time. Hell, if they really cared that much, they should have gone ahead and held out longer. I'd have gladly sacrificed a few games if it meant Der Kommissar lost a lot of his power. That's why I have little sympathy for Vilma or any other non-Steeler player when they feel his wrath.








  24. #24
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    He's saying that they let him keep his power in order to start the season on time. Hell, if they really cared that much, they should have gone ahead and held out longer. I'd have gladly sacrificed a few games if it meant Der Kommissar lost a lot of his power.
    Gotcha, yeah, that makes sense. And I agree. That's the player's own fault.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Tell me how you really feel zu.

    Careful, your bias is showing.
    Of course I have a bias. I have learned to dislike and distrust Goodell based on his actions as commissioner. I never had a problem one with Taglibue or Rozelle, so I'm guessing it's him not me.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  26. #26
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Of course I have a bias. I have learned to dislike and distrust Goodell based on his actions as commissioner. I never had a problem one with Taglibue or Rozelle, so I'm guessing it's him not me.
    Then when I see you take the opposing side, I have to think your intense bias has a lot to do with it.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Then when I see you take the opposing side, I have to think your intense bias has a lot to do with it.
    Not necessarily. I can dislike someone and still offer a fair evaluation of their performance. I can't stand Tom Brady, but I would still tell you he's an elite qb, one of the best in NFL history, and a certain first ballot Hall of Famer.

    Now if you excuse me I have to go wash the puke off my keyboard for typing that.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  28. #28
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Of course I have a bias. I have learned to dislike and distrust Goodell based on his actions as commissioner. I never had a problem one with Taglibue or Rozelle, so I'm guessing it's him not me.
    Because I'm sure that you would have just been elated had Goodell implemented the 5 yard chuck that weakened the Steelers' Cover 2 with Mel Blount and then specifically said that the rule change was to open up offenses, just like Rozelle did.

  29. #29
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    7,490

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Not necessarily. I can dislike someone and still offer a fair evaluation of their performance. I can't stand Tom Brady, but I would still tell you he's an elite qb, one of the best in NFL history, and a certain first ballot Hall of Famer.

    Now if you excuse me I have to go wash the puke off my keyboard for typing that.
    But the question is, did you offer a fair evaluation?

    Did you look at the pdf files? How much of them did you read? Or why your first response was just a Peter King tweet?

    Personally, I don't think you came into this with an open mind. Maybe you did but I can't buy it. I know you hate Goodell and came into the thread on the side of the players.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fair Hill Md.
    Posts
    15,903

    Re: NFLPA releases Saints bounty scandal evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    But the question is, did you offer a fair evaluation?

    Did you look at the pdf files? How much of them did you read? Or why your first response was just a Peter King tweet?

    Personally, I don't think you came into this with an open mind. Maybe you did but I can't buy it. I know you hate Goodell and came into the thread on the side of the players.
    I said punishment was in order, but no way in hell should a player get a year! A coach can coach until he's in his 70's. Sean Payton loses a year off his career, it's not going to change his life much.

    Vilma may have two or three years left. The clock is ticking. Not playing this year probably wont add a year on at the end. In fact sitting this year could potentially end his career if the Saints find a good replacement at 1/3 the salary.

    Goodell shouldn't be the appellate court. If you have any sense of justice that should be obvious.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •