This forum has died since Suit stopped posting.

[zulater]

The unintended consequences of Suitanim's temporary banning is the virtual death of this heretofore interesting forum. Like him or hate him, agree with him or disagree with him, he always kept things hopping here.

I realize Suit's continued absence is on him, as he's obviously now allowed to post. But really, did anyone of us who are familiar with Suit really think he was going to pop right back on the forums as soon as his suspension was over? I know I didn't, and were I suspended I'd probably think long and hard about returning as well.

Risking suspension myself I'm just going to come out and say it. I realize and respect that the moderators have a job to do. But unless someone makes a racial slur, negatively references your physical appearance, sexual preference or religion. Insults someone's family, or threatens to come over and kick your ass, what is it that we can't deal with here between fellow posters? I mean so what if someone says you're making a stupid point, calls you an idiot, etc... We're all adults here aren't we? I don't see why anyone would get their felling's hurt over something said on a message board? You tell 'em why you're not an idiot, or put them on ignore if you don't feel like explaining to them why they're the idiot.

Anyway if you're out there Suit, please come back. The board is a helluva lot more fun when you're on here stirring the pot.

As to the Moderators. I understand we all clicked agree on the terms of the board's C.O.C, therefore maybe we have no basis of complaint? Perhaps by me even making this thread I'm in violation of the C.O.C. and if so do to me what you see fit. I realize there's other board's out there, and it's your right to espouse a "My way or the highway" approach to any perceived threat to the board's well being.

But to me this board is weakened when we chase away a valuable member over what to me is essentially nonsense. I felt compelled to say so, and am interested to see if anyone else has a view to express on this to me relevant subject.



P.S over under on this thread's lifespan has been placed at 40 minutes. :

[ShutDown24]

I appreciate the effort Zulater, but I hardly think the reason the board has been slow lately is due to the relative absence of a single member. All football boards are slow this time of year.

I do miss seeing Suitanim's often (in my opinion) irrational posts as they were entertaining, but this forum is an exceptional one due to the several dozen active members who are always here. Not due to one who currently isn't.

[zulater]

I appreciate the effort Zulater, but I hardly think the reason the board has been slow lately is due to the relative absence of a single member. All football boards are slow this time of year.

Really? In the ten or so days since a certain member stopped posting there's been less than 20 post's total in this forum. ( soapbox) Check out the activity before said poster's absence. That would be the posting activity for a typical day. And the offseason started 4 months ago. He was the straw that stirred the drink as far as the Soapbox forum is concerned.

[ShutDown24]

Really? In the ten or so days since a certain member stopped posting there's been less than 20 post's total in this forum. ( soapbox) Check out the activity before said poster's absence. That would be the posting activity for a typical day. And the offseason started 4 months ago. He was the straw that stirred the drink as far as the Soapbox forum is concerned.

If you're only referring to the Soapbox then I would probably say that's accurate. But I'm not extremely active in this section so I wouldn't have really noticed so much. I don't think it's had much of an effect on the board as an entirety, though.

[zulater]

If you're only referring to the Soapbox then I would probably say that's accurate. But I'm not extremely active in this section so I wouldn't have really noticed so much. I don't think it's had much of an effect on the board as an entirety, though.

Basically that's all I'm referring to. The dude hardly knows squat about sports. Just kidding if you're out there Suit.

[Count Steeler]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this board. Explanations were given, warnings were given. Some changed their course, others did not.

A threat of discipline has no authority if it is constantly put off. The discipline was outlined, fair warnings were given, consequences ensued.

The message has been delivered, and Suit is free to post here, bound by the COC, as it applies to all of us.

[zulater]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this board. Explanations were given, warnings were given. Some changed their course, others did not.

A threat of discipline has no authority if it is constantly put off. The discipline was outlined, fair warnings were given, consequences ensued.

The message has been delivered, and Suit is free to post here, bound by the COC, as it applies to all of us.

Good input Count. Though I do disagree with you. Not on facts, as what you say is clearly absolutely true.I'm just not one that sees a "personal attack" on a message board as a personal threat or imposition. Again if you're denigrating my physical appearance, religion, race, gender, creed, or family; Or threaten me physical harm in any way, then yeah, you've crossed that line and you need to be dealt with. You tell me I'm making a stupid point or am an imbecile, big deal. Who really gives a shit?

[Count Steeler]

zulater, I can only guide you to the COC #2. The COC is the backbone of this forum. It guides the Admin/Mods and the rest of the members.

If 2 and 3 warnings are given and a member continues in his methods, he leaves us no choice.

If you are asking that the COC be rewritten, that is not going to happen.

[BnG_Hevn]

Well, this is the internet so you have to live by the care-bear philosophy. If you hurt someones feelings then you don't deserve to post. It is the wave of this generation; someday this country will have one big care-bear attitude.

Personally, if I was upset by someones comments I'd either fire back or ignore them but unless they are "trolls" I'd not expect them to be banned.

Sometimes you have boards that are like families. Family members (brothers / sisters) argue, doesn't mean they mean harm of any kind.

I guess this board doesn't qualify for that category.

[zulater]

zulater, I can only guide you to the COC #2. The COC is the backbone of this forum. It guides the Admin/Mods and the rest of the members.

If 2 and 3 warnings are given and a member continues in his methods, he leaves us no choice.

If you are asking that the COC be rewritten, that is not going to happen.

I suppose this is one of those define "is" moments? What constitutes a "personal attack" to me isn't the same as it is to you apparently. I posted on a message board for quite a few years that basically let most anything fly. Except of course for below the belt attacks, which I pretty much already described. Anyway things never got out of control over there.

I'm only voicing an opinion , I'm not trying to shove my views down your throat, just telling you mine and seeing what other input others might have to offer.

[Godfather]

I think the real reason this sub-forum is slow is too many of us agree that Obama sucks. It basically makes it a Republican circle jerk. That's not going to hold anyone's interest.

[zulater]

Well, this is the internet so you have to live by the care-bear philosophy. If you hurt someones feelings then you don't deserve to post. It is the wave of this generation; someday this country will have one big care-bear attitude.

Personally, if I was upset by someones comments I'd either fire back or ignore them but unless they are "trolls" I'd not expect them to be banned.

Sometimes you have boards that are like families. Family members (brothers / sisters) argue, doesn't mean they mean harm of any kind.

I guess this board doesn't qualify for that category.

Tremendous!!!!

[Count Steeler]

Some families mete out discipline, and some don't. Our rules are clear and no action was taken without fair warningS.

Sometimes a member decides his own fate.

[ShutDown24]

I don't think Suitanim personally "attacked" anyone. But it gets to a point when throwing darts post after post after post needs to be addressed. The point Suit made was unnecessary. And it came after constant requests for him to tone it down. I don't see anything wrong with the way it was handled. He was sent on a short vacation to cool off and has chosen not to return because it hurt his feelings.

[zulater]

Some families mete out discipline, and some don't. Our rules are clear and no action was taken without fair warningS.

Sometimes a member decides his own fate.

I guess the contrary point would be, were warnings really necessary? Was anything so over the top, belittling or demeaning as to require that sort of action? Was the board being dragged down or lessened by the conversation as it was that inaction was tantamount to dereliction of duty on the moderators behalf? I think not.

But again that's only my opinion.

[zulater]

I don't think Suitanim personally "attacked" anyone. But it gets to a point when throwing darts post after post after post needs to be addressed. The point Suit made was unnecessary. And it came after constant requests for him to tone it down. I don't see anything wrong with the way it was handled. He was sent on a short vacation to cool off and has chosen not to return because it hurt his feelings.

Good post!

[LLT]

Well, this is the internet so you have to live by the care-bear philosophy. If you hurt someones feelings then you don't deserve to post. It is the wave of this generation; someday this country will have one big care-bear attitude.

Personally, if I was upset by someones comments I'd either fire back or ignore them but unless they are "trolls" I'd not expect them to be banned.

Sometimes you have boards that are like families. Family members (brothers / sisters) argue, doesn't mean they mean harm of any kind.

I guess this board doesn't qualify for that category.

I couldnt disagree with you more.

I have no problem with "family members" having a disagreement. But It has to be done within the confines of the well-being of the site....just as their are rules for disagreeing and arguing within the confines of the well being of a "family".

The COC was written so that NO member would feel belittled or ridiculed. The member with one post has the same protection as those with 5,000+. Of all places...THIS should be a safe haven for those of us who share a love for a common team. It should NOT be a place in which anyone signs off with anger or hurt feelings. It should NOT be a place in which a prospective new member decides not to join because of childish behaviour.


Also please keep in mind that this site is one of the few that has personal access to the players and we have a responsibility to return their much appreciated participation by maintaining a site that is professional.

All that Admin/Mods ask for is that all participants agree/disagree with a modem of maturity and restraint. Keep in mind that we all make mistakes....and that the Admin/mods take that into consideration before they ban anyone. It is discussed among us to make sure that we are in agreement and that the proper amount of warnings were given.

The exception, of course, are the Trolls....and we have been very capable of quickly taking out the garbage in that regards.

All that being said....We have explained it enough at this point and we DO have a policy to not discuss bans on the general board.

So.....not to be rude, because I really do understand the general concern. But this conversation is officially complete.

[zulater]

Well it lasted past the predicted 40 minutes.

[X-Terminator]

LLT made all the points I was going to make, but I'm going to take it a couple steps further. There has not been a single forum that I have been a part of where political discussions did not lead to personal attacks, hard feelings, threats, and ultimately bans. And those feelings would invariably spill over into the rest of the forum, causing problems for people who have no interest in politics whatsoever. That is...until this forum. We have made it a point where we will not allow this forum to die because of out-of-control political discussions, and so far, we have been able to do exactly that. We also won't allow this forum to become like other forums where it's nothing but a non-stop flame war. To me, it's ridiculous and childish, and adds nothing to the forum as a whole. We have gotten kudos from people in high places for running a quality forum...we'd like to keep giving them a reason to keep on reading.

Now Zulater, I understand where you're coming from, and for the most part I agree. But we have to draw the line somewhere, because there are posters here who simply want to participate and speak their minds without being ridiculed or belittled. We have to keep the best interests of the forum and all of our members in mind, even if some members don't particularly like every decision we make. But that's the risk you take when you run a forum. I feel we give members plenty of opportunity to speak their minds and engage in heated debates. That's what makes a forum tick. When it gets beyond debate and into personal attacks - and yes, calling someone an idiot is a personal attack - then action must be taken. If we're supposed to be adult enough to deal with any personal attacks, then we should also be adult enough to engage in debates without going that route.

This will be my last and only word on this subject, because as LLT pointed out, we have a policy where we do not discuss bans on the open board.

[Devilsdancefloor]

i think i can speak for every Mod on here WE do not like banning anyone (unless it is a obvious troll). It is the hardest thing to do because i think we are like a big old cyber family. I also agree we are not always going to agree just like a family, but if we over look one or 2 incidents, than that will LEAD to racial slurs, sexual preference or religion,and threats to come over and kick your ass. I have seen it to often on forums if not controlled it becomes utter chaos. Yes, warnings where necessary and where ignored, so a vacation was given. You cant keep saying knock it off, then do nothing cause it will escalate to the point where you will have to ban maybe longer or lifetime.

[zulater]

LLT made all the points I was going to make, but I'm going to take it a couple steps further. There has not been a single forum that I have been a part of where political discussions did not lead to personal attacks, hard feelings, threats, and ultimately bans. And those feelings would invariably spill over into the rest of the forum, causing problems for people who have no interest in politics whatsoever. That is...until this forum. We have made it a point where we will not allow this forum to die because of out-of-control political discussions, and so far, we have been able to do exactly that. We also won't allow this forum to become like other forums where it's nothing but a non-stop flame war. To me, it's ridiculous and childish, and adds nothing to the forum as a whole. We have gotten kudos from people in high places for running a quality forum...we'd like to keep giving them a reason to keep on reading.

Now Zulater, I understand where you're coming from, and for the most part I agree. But we have to draw the line somewhere, because there are posters here who simply want to participate and speak their minds without being ridiculed or belittled. We have to keep the best interests of the forum and all of our members in mind, even if some members don't particularly like every decision we make. But that's the risk you take when you run a forum. I feel we give members plenty of opportunity to speak their minds and engage in heated debates. That's what makes a forum tick. When it gets beyond debate and into personal attacks - and yes, calling someone an idiot is a personal attack - then action must be taken. If we're supposed to be adult enough to deal with any personal attacks, then we should also be adult enough to engage in debates without going that route.

This will be my last and only word on this subject, because as LLT pointed out, we have a policy where we do not discuss bans on the open board.

Thanks for the thoughtful answer XT.

[zulater]

i think i can speak for every Mod on here WE do not like banning anyone (unless it is a obvious troll). It is the hardest thing to do because i think we are like a big old cyber family. I also agree we are not always going to agree just like a family, but if we over look one or 2 incidents, than that will LEAD to racial slurs, sexual preference or religion,and threats to come over and kick your ass. I have seen it to often on forums if not controlled it becomes utter chaos. Yes, warnings where necessary and where ignored, so a vacation was given. You cant keep saying knock it off, then do nothing cause it will escalate to the point where you will have to ban maybe longer or lifetime.

Thanks for the input. I can see your point.

Still I think it's a discussion worth having. I don't think any harm comes from brushing the scab off the wound occasionally to see what's underneath.

[stillers4me]

Kudos to LLT, Count, XT and DDF for their imput on this. I started replies several times and deleted them to find that you all had made my points so much more eloquently than I did.

As was said, we don't like banning anyone and never did. But we do have much discussion on what is best for the forum as a whole and for the growth of the site. We are all very proud of what we and all of you, our members, have accomplished here at SU, as a growing family. We have so much more on the drawing board and we all look forward to the up coming season and many more to follow and work very hard to insure that everybody is comfortable posting here...whether you are a daily poster or just occasionally pop in for the latest news. Please know that we appreciate each and every one of you!

[stillers4me]

I don't think any harm comes from brushing the scab off the wound occasionally to see what's underneath.

[Godfather]

Kudos to LLT, Count, XT and DDF for their imput on this. I started replies several times and deleted them to find that you all had made my points so much more eloquently than I did.

As was said, we don't like banning anyone and never did. But we do have much discussion on what is best for the forum as a whole and for the growth of the site. We are all very proud of what we and all of you, our members, have accomplished here at SU, as a growing family. We have so much more on the drawing board and we all look forward to the up coming season and many more to follow and work very hard to insure that everybody is comfortable posting here...whether you are a daily poster or just occasionally pop in for the latest news. Please know that we appreciate each and every one of you!

One reminder: The offending posts are deleted on most forums, so people might look at the post history and not see anything that crossed the line.

[zulater]

OK I'm going to approach this from a different angle. Is it fair to say after a while we establish a certain individual M.O. with people? In other words, like when Charles Barkley was a player his Sixer head coach Jimmy Lyman famously applied the tag line to his many antics as, "that's Charles being Charles." He was given latitude that no one else was afforded because it became an accepted part of his make up to stray a bit off the path.

Ergo with certain posters, we recognize their acerbic wit and/ or caustic outbursts as being part of their make up. I mean we wouldn't want a dozen Bill O'Reilly's on the air, but one is tolerable and entertaining no matter what your political DNA. I'd say the same for Jon Stewart. Anyway the point is if you play with the cat you're occasionally gonna get scratched, right?

OK I'm admittedly all over the place on this one. I know there was something I meant to say!? Oh well I'll reconvene later.

[Count Steeler]

I have to agree stillers4me, we do appreciate all of our members. We also appreciate those that look in on us from time to time and are not prone to posting.

I certainly consider this forum like a family.

[Iron Steeler]

Oh wait this isn't where I parked my car.... sorry folks as you were

[Devilsdancefloor]

If we allow just one person by with it and say oh that is charles being charles, then that sets up for misery on every ones behalf. your point "if you play with the cat you're occasionally gonna get scratched, right?" i think someone played with a cat and got a 7 day scratch to chill out. Besides charles being charles causes 1 person who has a great post to delete it before hitting submit for fear of being bashed over the head is 1 to many.

[Chidi29]

OK I'm going to approach this from a different angle. Is it fair to say after a while we establish a certain individual M.O. with people? In other words, like when Charles Barkley was a player his Sixer head coach Jimmy Lyman famously applied the tag line to his many antics as, "that's Charles being Charles." He was given latitude that no one else was afforded because it became an accepted part of his make up to stray a bit off the path.

Ergo with certain posters, we recognize their acerbic wit and/ or caustic outbursts as being part of their make up. I mean we wouldn't want a dozen Bill O'Reilly's on the air, but one is tolerable and entertaining no matter what your political DNA. I'd say the same for Jon Stewart. Anyway the point is if you play with the cat you're occasionally gonna get scratched, right?

OK I'm admittedly all over the place on this one. I know there was something I meant to say!? Oh well I'll reconvene later.

What happens when another "Charles" shows up? Do you ban him? Do you sit there and say, "Only one of you can act like this."

So you ban others and act a hypocrite or you have a bunch of Charles on the board that ruins the forum. It's a slippery slope and better to take care out of it before it gets out of hand.