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Thread: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Nice attempt at a heart-string pulling comparison. Those are people who have been charged and convicted in a court of law, but you are comparing them to people who can be detained for life w/o charge or trial. Ok.

    You're the one who asked about what constitutional rights Romney supports taking away, and I told you. You're rebuttal has basically been, but we need them taken away for our own good. If that's how you feel, fine, but why even ask that question in the first place if the answer doesn't mean anything to you?

    You went extreme, so I did in return. Do you really believe innocent Americans are going to have their lives disrupted one teensy bit by NDAA?

    Let me put it this way. The likely hood that any of us will have jack booted thugs beating our door down in the middle of the night with no just cause in the name of national security is beyond remote. Sadly I believe the chances of us having someone we love or know have their life affected by a sexual predator is much greater. Though obviously I wish neither on anyone.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    You went extreme, so I did in return. Do you really believe innocent Americans are going to have their lives disrupted one teensy bit by NDAA?

    Let me put it this way. The likely hood that any of us will have jack booted thugs beating our door down in the middle of the night with no just cause in the name of national security is beyond remote. Sadly I believe the chances of us having someone we love or know have their life affected by a sexual predator is much greater. Though obviously I wish neither on anyone.
    It may seem extreme to you now, but left unchecked you don't think a gov't could get to that point? Really? Has history taught us nothing?

    As Americans it should be ingrained in our DNA to be suspicious and mindful of our gov't. Our founding fathers put so many restrictions on gov't for that very reason. And now we are just willingly letting them break those down, thinking 'this could NEVER happen to us' and 'well, it's for our own good'. History repeats itself.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    It may seem extreme to you now, but left unchecked you don't think a gov't could get to that point? Really? Has history taught us nothing?

    As Americans it should be ingrained in our DNA to be suspicious and mindful of our gov't. Our founding fathers put so many restrictions on gov't for that very reason. And now we are just willingly letting them break those down, thinking 'this could NEVER happen to us' and 'well, it's for our own good'. History repeats itself.
    "A" government? Absolutely. Our government? Absolutely not. I really don't see any threat to our freedom from within. I think there's too many checks and balances already in place. Combined with a free and totally accessible press it's just not going to happen as you fear.


    To me the real threats to our freedoms come from terrorism, and competing Super Powers such as China and Russia. China in particular worries me. They are getting to a place where they could economically cripple us, and given the chance wont fail to try . That's why to me it's critical that we straighten our financial house and remain a major player on the world stage. We can't hand over the mantle of Super power ( which I fear Obama and Ron Paul are both intent upon) without endangering our long term interests of freedom, prosperity and autonomy.

    I think Romney gives us our best chance on all of these fronts. That's why I don't feel as if we're settling with him as our candidate and will actively support him in every way I can.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Anyway, back to the OP. I did some research on what's really going on, and it's not as big of a deal as I originally thought. Looking at Nevada, what happened was that the people elected to the caucus failed to show up, and Ron Paul's people were organized and saw an opening and they took it. This is probably not going to happen again, because the campaign will simply educate the people chosen for the caucus need to be there are the county level, then move forward to the state convention, and so on and so forth. At least in the case of NV, even though Paul's people only won 19% of the vote compared to over 50% for Romney, because of them taking over the state convention, only 6 of the 28 delegates are Romney people. HOWEVER, because they cannot actually subvert the vote of the people of the state, Paul's people are pledged to vote for Romney on the first ballot. They can only vote for Paul if there would be a need for a second ballot. And there won't be.

    Basically, this is just attention whoring from Paul's people............again.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    "A" government? Absolutely. Our government? Absolutely not. I really don't see any threat to our freedom from within. I think there's too many checks and balances already in place. Combined with a free and totally accessible press it's just not going to happen as you fear.


    To me the real threats to our freedoms come from terrorism, and competing Super Powers such as China and Russia. China in particular worries me. They are getting to a place where they could economically cripple us, and given the chance wont fail to try . That's why to me it's critical that we straighten our financial house and remain a major player on the world stage. We can't hand over the mantle of Super power ( which I fear Obama and Ron Paul are both intent upon) without endangering our long term interests of freedom, prosperity and autonomy.

    I think Romney gives us our best chance on all of these fronts. That's why I don't feel as if we're settling with him as our candidate and will actively support him in every way I can.
    Zu, ANY gov't can get to that point if the people allow it to. That was my point. IMO, the only way terrorism has threatened our freedom is in the way that it has shaped these new and dangerous laws. They are being used against terrorists right now, but they are designed and worded in such a way that they can extend well beyond that if we allow it. The Reichstag Fire Decree was initially passed because of a communist threat, and thousands of communists were arrested without trial due to it...and then it extended to everyone else (in very quick manner). Yes, I'm aware Nazi Germany is an extreme example, but that's what happens to a country that just allows a gov't to do as it will out of desperation.

    Also, Germany had a completely free press before the Nazi's as well...so, bad example.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Zu, ANY gov't can get to that point if the people allow it to. That was my point. IMO, the only way terrorism has threatened our freedom is in the way that it has shaped these new and dangerous laws. They are being used against terrorists right now, but they are designed and worded in such a way that they can extend well beyond that if we allow it. The Reichstag Fire Decree was initially passed because of a communist threat, and thousands of communists were arrested without trial due to it...and then it extended to everyone else (in very quick manner). Yes, I'm aware Nazi Germany is an extreme example, but that's what happens to a country that just allows a gov't to do as it will out of desperation.

    Also, Germany had a completely free press before the Nazi's as well...so, bad example.
    Are you really trying to compare the information highway of pre Hitler Germany to America today? Internet, 24 hour news cycle, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, blog's galore ring a bell? No Western Government can control the message to the degree that would be necessary to undertake the sort of taking of freedoms you're suggesting could happen.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Are you really trying to compare the information highway of pre Hitler Germany to America today? Internet, 24 hour news cycle, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, blog's galore ring a bell? No Western Government can control the message to the degree that would be necessary to undertake the sort of taking of freedoms you're suggesting could happen.
    Ummm...CISPA? If you think the gov't can't figure out a way to control the internet, then you need to wake up. These are not people who should be trusted without question.

    Ask yourself why organizations and companies like NCTA, Facebook, AT&T, Verizon, Google, Microsoft, and IBM are all strong supporters of CISPA.

    06.04.2012 - Draconian cyber security bill could lead to Internet surveillance and censorship

    Reporters Without Borders is deeply concerned with the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act of 2011 (CISPA), the cyber security bill now before the US Congress.

    In the name of the war on cyber crime, it would allow the government and private companies to deploy draconian measures to monitor, even censor, the Web. It might even be used to close down sites that publish classified files or information.

    “Freedom of expression and the protection of online privacy are increasingly under threat in countries with a democratic reputation, where a series of bills and draft laws is sacrificing them in the interests of national security or copyright,” Reports Without Borders said.

    “A blanket monitoring system is never an appropriate solution, nor is blocking or censoring websites that disclose information that is classified but of public interest. Reporters Without Borders opposes CISPA and ask Congress to reject this legislation.

    “The organization recently highlighted Britain’s Orwellian bill, and France’s aspirations to make visiting websites that advocate terrorism or violence a crime.


    http://en.rsf.org/etats-unis-draconi...012,42283.html

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    "A" government? Absolutely. Our government? Absolutely not. I really don't see any threat to our freedom from within. I think there's too many checks and balances already in place. Combined with a free and totally accessible press it's just not going to happen as you fear.
    I'm not so sure about that. NDAA gave the feds the right to detain US citizens on US soil indefinitely. That's communism.

    Technically it has to be someone who was involved in the 9/11 attacks but if you don't have due process rights, it doesn't really matter. They can just say it.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Ummm...CISPA? If you think the gov't can't figure out a way to control the internet, then you need to wake up. These are not people who should be trusted without question.
    I think you need to take the tin foil hat off for a minute and honestly assess the situation. Just because it's not a Utopian society where we can do anything we please whenever we please doesn't mean we've going straight down the road to tyranny. It's not as bad as you think, and it never will be. Or at least it wont come about as you believe without outside force and influence.

    There is no danger whatsoever that Romney is going to become a dictator!!!! I mean really?!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. NDAA gave the feds the right to detain US citizens on US soil indefinitely. That's communism.

    Technically it has to be someone who was involved in the 9/11 attacks but if you don't have due process rights, it doesn't really matter. They can just say it.
    Communism is an economic system.

    When someone you know has their due process rights violated by NDAA let me know. I wont be holding my breath though.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I think you need to take the tin foil hat off for a minute and honestly assess the situation. Just because it's not a Utopian society where we can do anything we please whenever we please doesn't mean we've going straight down the road to tyranny. It's not as bad as you think, and it never will be. Or at least it wont come about as you believe without outside force and influence.

    There is no danger whatsoever that Romney is going to become a dictator!!!! I mean really?!
    I never said Romney would be a dictator. Who needs a dictator when we have Congress and Senate?

    I'm not wearing a tin foil hat, I've just taken my blinders off....read the article I edited into my statement. There are quite a few free press organizations that are 100% against CISPA, and there's a reason for that. Sorry, but I'm not going to just sit back and be ho hum about these insane laws that take away our liberties and pretend they're just 'making us safer'. Putting your complete faith in any gov't in absolutely insane.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Besides, better safe than sorry, right? I'd rather be overly judgemental and suspicious of my gov't than just let them do what they will and wake up in a gulag someday. It's the same reason I always double bag heavy items. The contents might not fall through every time, but don't you just hate when it does happen?

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    I never said Romney would be a dictator. Who needs a dictator when we have Congress and Senate?

    I'm not wearing a tin foil hat, I've just taken my blinders off....read the article I edited into my statement. There are quite a few free press organizations that are 100% against CISPA, and there's a reason for that. Sorry, but I'm not going to just sit back and be ho hum about these insane laws that take away our liberties and pretend they're just 'making us safer'. Putting your complete faith in any gov't in absolutely insane.
    I'm not putting my complete faith in the government. I'm putting my faith in our country, our system, our common sense and decency as a people and a nation. As you say there are quite a few free press organizations that are 100% against CISPA. And that's precisely my point. When those organizations freedom to express dissent is quashed I'll take arms against whomever tries to stifle them. When there is no press to point out multiple abuses of government power against hundreds of law abiding citizens I'll take your cause.

    But that day isn't here, nor is it coming. Yeah I'm sure if you do enough digging you'll find a case or two where some bumbling nitwit pulled out the wrong address and harassed an innocent person. In a nation of 350 million you'll have the occasional procedural mistakes. And that's sad when it happens. Particularly if it's to you. But there's a huge difference between occasional bureaucratic error and orchestrated government conspiracy to take away our rights and freedoms.
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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Anyway, back to the OP. I did some research on what's really going on, and it's not as big of a deal as I originally thought. Looking at Nevada, what happened was that the people elected to the caucus failed to show up, and Ron Paul's people were organized and saw an opening and they took it. This is probably not going to happen again, because the campaign will simply educate the people chosen for the caucus need to be there are the county level, then move forward to the state convention, and so on and so forth. At least in the case of NV, even though Paul's people only won 19% of the vote compared to over 50% for Romney, because of them taking over the state convention, only 6 of the 28 delegates are Romney people. HOWEVER, because they cannot actually subvert the vote of the people of the state, Paul's people are pledged to vote for Romney on the first ballot. They can only vote for Paul if there would be a need for a second ballot. And there won't be.

    Basically, this is just attention whoring from Paul's people............again.
    Nice to see you've finally done at least some cursory research. You are correct; nothing to see here. You can go back to sleep now.
    /don't ask about Rule 38.
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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I'm not putting my complete faith in the government. I'm putting my faith in our country, our system, our common sense and decency as a people and a nation. As you say there are quite a few free press organizations that are 100% against CISPA. And that's precisely my point. When those organizations freedom to express dissent is quashed I'll take arms against whomever tries to stifle them. When there is no press to point out multiple abuses of government power against hundreds of law abiding citizens I'll take your cause.

    But that day isn't here, nor is it coming. Yeah I'm sure if you do enough digging you'll find a case or two where some bumbling nitwit pulled out the wrong address and harassed an innocent person. In a nation of 350 million you'll have the occasional procedural mistakes. And that's sad when it happens. Particularly if it's to you. But there's a huge difference between occasional bureaucratic error and orchestrated government conspiracy to take away our rights and freedoms.
    And conversely, I'm not some tin foil wearing loon who sits in a dark room pounding away at the keyboard trying to make every little thing bigger than it needs to be, but I also like to squash a problem before it gets out of hand. I'm not one to wait until there is no press to point out multiple gov't abuses against hundreds of people. I'd like something like that stopped before it can happen. I like being proactive, not reactive. NDAA and CISPA (if it is passed as written) are in direct violation of our constitution, and if they are not squashed in swift order, they CAN lead to other abuses of our constitution that are even more dangerous. It all starts somewhere, extreme gov't corruption just doesn't appear out of thin air. To say that day can never come is incredibly short-sighted.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Reality Check: Why all RNC delegates are 'Free Agents' and unbound


    http://www.fox19.com/story/18305604/reality-check-why-all-rnc-delegates-are-free-agents-and-unbound


    ...straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Darn it, SCM! You went and told him... Now he's going to pretend he's paying attention again... :/
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Once this is all over (and it will be over for the Paul crowd), all of the "enlightened" ones will again go back to thier respective holes until the next thing they latch onto comes along.

    Of course, I am not one of the chosen enlightened ones, so what do I know...




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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    And conversely, I'm not some tin foil wearing loon who sits in a dark room pounding away at the keyboard trying to make every little thing bigger than it needs to be, but I also like to squash a problem before it gets out of hand. I'm not one to wait until there is no press to point out multiple gov't abuses against hundreds of people. I'd like something like that stopped before it can happen. I like being proactive, not reactive. NDAA and CISPA (if it is passed as written) are in direct violation of our constitution, and if they are not squashed in swift order, they CAN lead to other abuses of our constitution that are even more dangerous. It all starts somewhere, extreme gov't corruption just doesn't appear out of thin air. To say that day can never come is incredibly short-sighted.
    I understand what you're saying to a point. But I also see the Constitution as an evolving thing. Isn't that what the amendments are all about? I don't know, but to me a dogmatic literal interpretation of any aged document ( Bible, Koran, Constitution) can tend to paint you in a corner when faced with modern day realities.

    I also understand the Orwellian thinking, the enemy has been met, and it is us, you seem to follow. And while it certainly is good we have our watchdogs like yourself, I tend to believe that we're a self correcting society, and short of external intervention, we'll always right the ship before it goes too far off course.

    Again my personal fears for this country are more along the economic lines, and our place in the world as a whole, which I think are very much connected. I think how we act our part on the world's stage has a tremendous affect on the global economy and the worlds overall well being. Even though they tend to hate us they need us.And we need them. But not in the subservient sense that Obama and the current administration wish to put us in.

    Short on time, I'll elaborate more later.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I understand what you're saying to a point. But I also see the Constitution as an evolving thing. Isn't that what the amendments are all about? I don't know, but to me a dogmatic literal interpretation of any aged document ( Bible, Koran, Constitution) can tend to paint you in a corner when faced with modern day realities.

    I also understand the Orwellian thinking, the enemy has been met, and it is us, you seem to follow. And while it certainly is good we have our watchdogs like yourself, I tend to believe that we're a self correcting society, and short of external intervention, we'll always right the ship before it goes too far off course.

    Again my personal fears for this country are more along the economic lines, and our place in the world as a whole, which I think are very much connected. I think how we act our part on the world's stage has a tremendous affect on the global economy and the worlds overall well being. Even though they tend to hate us they need us.And we need them. But not in the subservient sense that Obama and the current administration wish to put us in.

    Short on time, I'll elaborate more later.
    Well, yeah, it is a living document, and it is going to evolve. Otherwise, slavery wouldn't be constitutionally illegal. But you can't just deny someone a fair trial just because you say they are something (specifically US citizens, even during war time). I know what it's purpose is right now, and I know it's not geared to be for US citizens...but they are not excluded either. Left unchecked, that could lead down a very dangerous path. That's why it shouldn't even be legal right now. Same with CISPA. Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile.

    I hope your right, and I hope the day never comes when our gov't has way more control of the people than they can handle. But I'd never turn my back on the possibility. People can be trusted, gov'ts cannot.

    As to the economy and world stage, those are both concerns for me as well. In a perfect world, I'd much rather be more isolationist, but that has more to do with how I run my own life rather than how I think a country should be run. Scaling down a bit on getting involved in other countries affairs wouldn't be a bad thing though, IMO. I'm more worried about our own economic situation than I am about fixing some other countries problems at the moment. Sometimes I just feel like the US is like an alcoholic parent who's trying to give someone else parenting advice.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Reality Check: Why all RNC delegates are 'Free Agents' and unbound


    http://www.fox19.com/story/18305604/reality-check-why-all-rnc-delegates-are-free-agents-and-unbound


    ...straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.
    It was inevitable that someone from Paul's camp would arrive at this. Laughable arrogance and ignorance. Did they think no one had thought of this before? The thing from Utah hardly sets precedent, since states have been working around this forever by making sure that not all their delegates are bound. The entire primary process is not going to be unraveled and undone based on the words of one woman from Utah. I know the guy in this video talks around it, but it has no legs all the same.

    I mean, if we want to get technical, there's also actually no reason why the electorate college would vote for their states popularly elected candidate either. In fact, 12 states electoral colleges can vote for whomever they choose. They just never do.

    Does Ron Paul's zombie army think they are going to steal the nomination? To what end? To LOSE 90-10 in a general?

    Even IF this had legs each convention opens by voting on the rules, and unless the Paulites have a plan to take over the entire GOP in the next couple months, there will just be either amended rules or some provision to cover this.

    Retarded. Rule 38 is the rallying cry of sore losers. Accept the fact that your candidate has about 4% of the vote and move along. Jesus, this is annoying...I can only think that this is the product of a Country who thinks that parents should be their children's friends and should never say "no" and no team should ever lose and all that shit...

    But this is an interesting exercise in Civics. Most people never even think about this stuff, let alone look into it...so there is some peripheral benefit, I guess...
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    It was inevitable that someone from Paul's camp would arrive at this. Laughable arrogance and ignorance. Did they think no one had thought of this before? The thing from Utah hardly sets precedent, since states have been working around this forever by making sure that not all their delegates are bound. The entire primary process is not going to be unraveled and undone based on the words of one woman from Utah. I know the guy in this video talks around it, but it has no legs all the same.

    I mean, if we want to get technical, there's also actually no reason why the electorate college would vote for their states popularly elected candidate either. In fact, 12 states electoral colleges can vote for whomever they choose. They just never do.

    Does Ron Paul's zombie army think they are going to steal the nomination? To what end? To LOSE 90-10 in a general?

    Even IF this had legs each convention opens by voting on the rules, and unless the Paulites have a plan to take over the entire GOP in the next couple months, there will just be either amended rules or some provision to cover this.

    Retarded. Rule 38 is the rallying cry of sore losers. Accept the fact that your candidate has about 4% of the vote and move along. Jesus, this is annoying...I can only think that this is the product of a Country who thinks that parents should be their children's friends and should never say "no" and no team should ever lose and all that shit...

    But this is an interesting exercise in Civics. Most people never even think about this stuff, let alone look into it...so there is some peripheral benefit, I guess...
    Wow...thanks for all the compliments, I guess.

    You could have said all that in a completely non-demeaning way, and I would have responded in kind. It was fairly relevant to the topic, and not something I'd heard before.

    Man, people are just all kinds of pissy this time of year. No wonder 'compromise' can be so hard.


    To your point about each convention opening by voting on the rules, that's how I understood it too, and that's why I posted this. By what the video says, I took it to mean that part of the 'loophole' was that all delegates were unbound, even in the first round of voting if they choose to.

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Zu, ANY gov't can get to that point if the people allow it to. That was my point. IMO, the only way terrorism has threatened our freedom is in the way that it has shaped these new and dangerous laws. They are being used against terrorists right now, but they are designed and worded in such a way that they can extend well beyond that if we allow it. The Reichstag Fire Decree was initially passed because of a communist threat, and thousands of communists were arrested without trial due to it...and then it extended to everyone else (in very quick manner). Yes, I'm aware Nazi Germany is an extreme example, but that's what happens to a country that just allows a gov't to do as it will out of desperation.

    Also, Germany had a completely free press before the Nazi's as well...so, bad example.
    I think the point you're missing is this.

    It's not a choice between Ron Paul, Romney and Obama, it's a choice between Romney and Obama.

    Essentially, if there were two candidates and it was Romney and Obama, who would you vote for? If you say Obama over Romney, then you voting for Paul would aid Romney.

    If you would vote for Romney over Obama, then your vote for Ron Paul would aid Obama.

    Ron Paul will NOT win, therefore if you vote for him your vote is "wasted", wasted in the sense that it is technically not counting as it "could" count.

    You say you want to protect this country's freedom, yet you would be willing to throw your vote away instead of making it count by giving it to Romney.

    *OR* you want Obama to win in hopes of Ron Paul getting the nod in '16.

    For my dollar, I could be a die-hard Ron Paul supporter but because I want this country to "get back on its feet", I would vote for Romney specifically to get that idiot loser OUT of the white house.
    “They say all marriages are made in heaven, but so are thunder and lightning.”
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  24. #84
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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by BnG_Hevn View Post
    I think the point you're missing is this.

    It's not a choice between Ron Paul, Romney and Obama, it's a choice between Romney and Obama.

    Essentially, if there were two candidates and it was Romney and Obama, who would you vote for? If you say Obama over Romney, then you voting for Paul would aid Romney.

    If you would vote for Romney over Obama, then your vote for Ron Paul would aid Obama.

    Ron Paul will NOT win, therefore if you vote for him your vote is "wasted", wasted in the sense that it is technically not counting as it "could" count.

    You say you want to protect this country's freedom, yet you would be willing to throw your vote away instead of making it count by giving it to Romney.

    *OR* you want Obama to win in hopes of Ron Paul getting the nod in '16.

    For my dollar, I could be a die-hard Ron Paul supporter but because I want this country to "get back on its feet", I would vote for Romney specifically to get that idiot loser OUT of the white house.
    I don't like that question...you have to pick a different one.

    J/K...I'd never in my life vote for Obama, so I guess the answer is obvious. And no way is Ron running in '16. I like him a lot and all, but even that'll be pushing it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Rand will be in the mix.

    I'm not going to write Paul in or anything (and he's not going to run Independent, and Johnson is already the Libertarian candidate). I know some people that will, but not enough would. I'm well aware of that. Should (by some miracle) he get the nod though, I'd be all over that...joyfully. And, I voted for him in the PA primaries. I'll always support Paul and his message, pretty much no matter what...but if he doesn't pull of the unthinkable in Tampa, I'm shifting straight to Rand. I'll already be thinking of the next election (not cowered in some hole finding something new to latch onto ). Romney will at that point, and I don't even like TYPING this, get my vote. But it will be extremely begrudgingly. I don't think he has as great a shot as everyone thinks he does, but whatever.

    My main point was, why even allow 3rd parties, or people to vote for someone other than the main Dem or Rep if everyone is just going to be told they're wasting their vote? Might as well just change the rules and not allow it at all.

  25. #85
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by BnG_Hevn View Post
    I think the point you're missing is this.

    It's not a choice between Ron Paul, Romney and Obama, it's a choice between Romney and Obama.

    Essentially, if there were two candidates and it was Romney and Obama, who would you vote for? If you say Obama over Romney, then you voting for Paul would aid Romney.

    If you would vote for Romney over Obama, then your vote for Ron Paul would aid Obama.

    Ron Paul will NOT win, therefore if you vote for him your vote is "wasted", wasted in the sense that it is technically not counting as it "could" count.

    You say you want to protect this country's freedom, yet you would be willing to throw your vote away instead of making it count by giving it to Romney.

    *OR* you want Obama to win in hopes of Ron Paul getting the nod in '16.

    For my dollar, I could be a die-hard Ron Paul supporter but because I want this country to "get back on its feet", I would vote for Romney specifically to get that idiot loser OUT of the white house.
    All due respect, but that's *not* the choice IMO. I'm not going to cast my vote for one candidate I disapprove of over another, particularly if I consider them both to be equally (or nearly equally) abhorrent. That's the kind of behavior that got us into this mess and while I can't stop others from making the same mistake, I don't have to engage in it myself. I will vote for a candidate that I approve of. If that costs the Republicans the election, then they will learn a very valuable lesson about what happens when they alienate their own base by running a Massachusetts liberal as their candidate.
    As an aside, Paul won't be running next cycle and all his supporters are aware of that.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Ugghhh...why'd you make me go and say all of that. I don't wanna do eeet!

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    All due respect, but that's *not* the choice IMO. I'm not going to cast my vote for one candidate I disapprove of over another, particularly if I consider them both to be equally (or nearly equally) abhorrent. That's the kind of behavior that got us into this mess and while I can't stop others from making the same mistake, I don't have to engage in it myself. I will vote for a candidate that I approve of. If that costs the Republicans the election, then they will learn a very valuable lesson about what happens when they alienate their own base by running a Massachusetts liberal as their candidate.
    As an aside, Paul won't be running next cycle and all his supporters are aware of that.
    If he just would have run on the Independent ticket, I'd agree with you 100%. Right now I can only agree 99.9%, and that other little tiny bit of me can't stand Obama more. If Paul doesn't win the GOP ticket, we all know what his chances are. Romney's not any kind of savior or anything (just like Obama wasn't), but at that point it'll be time to shift the focus elsewhere...towards Rand and Congress and Senate as a whole. Ron Paul followers need to start getting out there and getting involved as much as possible, because as much as I hate to admit it, Paul isn't going to be the savior either. He never had Congress behind him before, and he wouldn't have them behind him as president either. All I can do right now is hope his delegate strategy works.

  28. #88
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Wow...thanks for all the compliments, I guess.

    You could have said all that in a completely non-demeaning way, and I would have responded in kind. It was fairly relevant to the topic, and not something I'd heard before.

    Man, people are just all kinds of pissy this time of year. No wonder 'compromise' can be so hard.


    To your point about each convention opening by voting on the rules, that's how I understood it too, and that's why I posted this. By what the video says, I took it to mean that part of the 'loophole' was that all delegates were unbound, even in the first round of voting if they choose to.
    This is absolutely correct. The difference this year is that a very large number of delegates going to Tampa have no inclination to vote for the guy they've been sent to vote for. That's never happened before.
    This is not to say that I expect Paul to get the nomination, but Romney will come out of this convention without the show of unity the Party wants and the Paul people will get a *lot* of control in the RNC this coming cycle.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  29. #89
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
    Wow...thanks for all the compliments, I guess.

    You could have said all that in a completely non-demeaning way, and I would have responded in kind. It was fairly relevant to the topic, and not something I'd heard before.

    Man, people are just all kinds of pissy this time of year. No wonder 'compromise' can be so hard.


    To your point about each convention opening by voting on the rules, that's how I understood it too, and that's why I posted this. By what the video says, I took it to mean that part of the 'loophole' was that all delegates were unbound, even in the first round of voting if they choose to.
    I'm just weary of all the attention whoring. Paul's fans are like the Little League parent of the fat kid who can't hit who gets struck out in 3 pitches with the bat on his shoulder...the parents who scream at the ump and blame HIM for calling the strikes.

    It's just life. There are winners and there are losers, and Paul is a loser. If you back a loser, your candidate is a loser, so just accept losing already and go away and let the winners advance.

    In other relevant news, Romney's approval is up 11 points in3 months. Good news! By November, he'll be in solid shape.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/g...183950373.html
    Fire Goodell

  30. #90
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    Re: Ron Paul Supporters Embarrassing Themselves, Party...

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I'm just weary of all the attention whoring. Paul's fans are like the Little League parent of the fat kid who can't hit who gets struck out in 3 pitches with the bat on his shoulder...the parents who scream at the ump and blame HIM for calling the strikes.

    It's just life. There are winners and there are losers, and Paul is a loser. If you back a loser, your candidate is a loser, so just accept losing already and go away and let the winners advance.

    In other relevant news, Romney's approval is up 11 points in3 months. Good news! By November, he'll be in solid shape.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/g...183950373.html
    Thanks for more compliments! You're such a sweetie. Muah!

    I get it though, and it's ok. People are always just more on edge and uncivilized during an election year. Happens.

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