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Thread: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

  1. #1
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    1) Last year was the first year SSI paid out more than it took in 2) Last year was the first year the baby boomers started retiring 3) Last year Obama's irresponsible payroll tax holiday cost SSI 105 billion dollars.

    So we have a program headed for insolvency that desperately needs repaired. What does Obama do? He drains it's revenue streams. This guy is SO beatable if a GOP candidate can just start drilling down into the depths of his shitty policies.

    By the way, the GOP has an alternative to the payroll tax holiday....but I bet you haven't heard a peep about it in the pop media...

    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...xpayers-choose

    Three House Republicans have put forward a possible solution to the payroll tax cut debate — a bill that would give taxpayers the choice of whether to continue to receive a payroll tax cut.

    Under the bill offered by Rep. Jeff Landry (R-La.), taxpayers who opt to continue the 2 percent payroll tax cut next year would, in effect, pay for that cut themselves, by delaying the receipt of their Social Security benefits by one month. Taxpayers could continue to make this arrangement each year, adding another another month's delay for Social Security each time.

    Those who decide not to extend the 2 percent cut would not have to delay the receipt of Social Security benefits.
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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    I read the same blog in NPR the other day. While I agree Social Security is a broken program, and disagree with pulling from the general fund to pay for it, there has been some questions raised about how accurate the facts were in that blog piece. #1 and #2 in particular.

    #3, and the most important one IMO, seems to be true.

    Also, Ive been swamped with the holidays so Ive been slacking with the news and things, so I have never heard of that proposal from the republicans...sounds like a pretty good idea to me.




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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    I have no idea how 1 and 2 could NOT be true, since there have been numerous reports from various media sources about them happening all throughout the year. As far as baby boomers, it's generally recognized as a term referring to people born post WWII until the mid-60's. 2010-1946= 64 years old, so that number has got to be pretty close. I guess it could be argued that 2008 was the technically the first year for people taking early retirement though (62), but I think it hardly matters in the larger debate.

    As for paying out more than it takes in, here is the chart from the CBO http://www.cbo.gov/budget/factsheets...TrustFunds.pdf
    along with an article from the New York times explaining it. Again, it cannot be ignored that Obama's tax holiday directly saps revenue from SSI...at a time when the program can afford cuts the least.
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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    I'm at the docs office on my phone so it's hard to decipher that chart, it's only showing 2010 and beyond...I need to look at the whole history of the program. I think the issue "should" be is why we have to pull from the general fund to help a program that was designed to be self sustaining.

    I also want to get back to work and fact check the article I read disputing the original blog, something I should have done before posting here. I did take a quick look at the OASI/DI chart history and it looked like the general fund had been used before to reimburse the program, but I'll take a closer look when I get back to work.




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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    None of that changes my overall point, which is with a program universally recognized as headed for 100% insolvency, the MOST irresponsible thing to do is pull revenue from it, and then, in typical Obama fashion, when the GOP says "OK, let's talk about extending this AND paying for it", he demagogues the issue and claims that the GOP is all about killing the middle class.
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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    OK, well, this is back in the news. The payroll tax holiday is going to be extended, and the GOP backed down and isn't even asking for Hopey to pay for this. The cost: ANOTHER 100 million dollar shortfall for SSI. This when there are a ton of people retiring, and the fund already being short every year now.

    This bill also extends unemployment (but the GOP DID insist that that be paid for...good for them). Most importantly, and very oddly I might add, it is eliminating the medicare reduction. This is really important because this was part of Obama's lie on how Obamacare was supposed to be paid for. Now, at the time, many of us pointed out that basing false "savings" on future cuts that neither party would have the balls to actually follow through on was irresponsible, but......well.....anyway, here we are, and those "savings" will never materialize.

    Also, since we're on the subject, I remember posting projections that Obama's budgets would put our deficit in the 19-20 trillion dollar range by 2020. There were certain people who claimed I was making that up....well, the projected deficit under his current budget (and it's based on an over-optimistic 3% GDP increase, so it could go even higher) is............19 trillion dollars.

    Time to go, Barry...
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    Senior Member Array title="T&B fan has much to be proud of"> T&B fan's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    yea we should stop paying all them old farts ,after all they never put any money in it ... oops that's right they did put money in a fund that was just for SSI and then someone seen all the $$$$$ and took it out and put it in the general fund that's way there's no money in SSI .

    and I thought tax cuts was a good thing ... must be us working people have no clue how to spend it right and we should give more to the rich ( job creators sorry ) .
    we must never forget tell everyone you know New England cheated and might be back at it Edit 1-21-15 there back Edit #2__12-8-19 here we go again Edit #3__ 5-25-23 it never ends

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    Geek God Array title="X-Terminator has a reputation beyond repute"> X-Terminator's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    Quote Originally Posted by T&B fan View Post
    yea we should stop paying all them old farts ,after all they never put any money in it ... oops that's right they did put money in a fund that was just for SSI and then someone seen all the $$$$$ and took it out and put it in the general fund that's way there's no money in SSI .

    and I thought tax cuts was a good thing ... must be us working people have no clue how to spend it right and we should give more to the rich ( job creators sorry ) .
    Yeah, and you can blame BOTH parties for that. It ain't just the Republicans, if that's what you are implying.

    And yes, tax cuts are a good thing, especially if they help out the "rich" (really small business owners, who only provide about 80% of the jobs in this country) so that you and me can stay employed. Excessive taxation (and regulation) KILLS business, and that is a fact.








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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    Quote Originally Posted by T&B fan View Post
    yea we should stop paying all them old farts ,after all they never put any money in it ... oops that's right they did put money in a fund that was just for SSI and then someone seen all the $$$$$ and took it out and put it in the general fund that's way there's no money in SSI .

    and I thought tax cuts was a good thing ... must be us working people have no clue how to spend it right and we should give more to the rich ( job creators sorry ) .
    A) SSI is underfunded and will be insolvent sooner than anyone is willing to believe. This IRRESPONSIBLE TAX CUT has now eroded over 200 billion MORE from the fund. This has nothing to do with "old farts", because they will get theirs.
    B) The tax cut is a joke. It comes from the wrong place and equates to about $20 a check for someone making 50k. And, if we HAD to have it, PAY FOR IT!
    C) The real deplorable act was pulling the rug out on the Medicare cuts. Not because I want to see people go without care, but because it was counted as "savings" under Obamacare. It was a lie from the start.
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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    More on SSI. This is going to be a defining issue in the upcoming election. All Romney has to do is have a plan. Any plan. Even a bad plan. Because Obama's only plan is to ignore it and let the next guy deal with it...

    http://www.ohio.com/editorial/robert...urity-1.293613

    What we have is a vast welfare program grafted onto the rhetoric and psychology of a contributory pension. The result is entitlement. Unsurprisingly, AARP’s advertising slogan is “You’ve earned a say” on Social Security. The trouble is that contributions weren’t saved. They went to past beneficiaries. The $2.6 trillion in the Social Security trust fund at year-end 2010 sounds like a lot but equals slightly more than three years of benefits.
    With favorable demographics, contradictions were bearable. Early Social Security beneficiaries received huge windfalls. A one-earner couple with average wages retiring at 65 in 1960 received lifetime benefits equal to nearly 14 times their payroll taxes, even if those taxes had been saved and invested (which they weren’t), calculate Eugene Steuerle and Stephanie Rennane of the Urban Institute.
    But now, demographics are unfriendly. In 1960, there were five workers per recipient; today, there are three, and by 2025 the ratio will approach two. Roosevelt’s fear has materialized. Paying all benefits requires higher taxes, cuts in other programs or large deficits. Indeed, the burden has increased, because it now includes Medicare, which is also viewed as an entitlement.
    Although new recipients have paid payroll taxes higher and longer than their predecessors, their benefits still exceed taxes paid even assuming (again, fictitiously) that they had been invested. A two-earner couple with average wages retiring in 2010 would receive lifetime Social Security and Medicare benefits worth $906,000 compared with taxes of $704,000, estimate Steuerle and Rennane.
    By all rights, we should ask: Who among the elderly need benefits? How much? At what age? If Social Security and Medicare were considered “welfare” — something the nation does for its collective good — these questions would be easier. We would tailor programs to meet national needs. But entitlements are viewed as a higher-order moral claim, owed individuals based on past performance. So a huge part of government spending moves off-limits to intelligent discussion.
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    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    It was a lie from the start.
    And that surprises you?


    Social Security is Not an Entitlement

    Social Security is not an entitlement -- it is an obligation.

    It infuriates me every time I hear someone in Washington refer to Social Security as one of the entitlement programs. When I look at my paycheck stub, I see a mandatory deduction for Social Security. I have no voice in the amount or how it is invested or what I will receive in return.

    Every year around my birthday, the government sends me a statement in the mail with the estimate of how much I will get each year when I receive my Social Security checks. That is not an entitlement; the government has been taking my money since I got my first job at age 14.

    Members of Congress do not participate in the Social Security program. They have their own pension plan for federal workers. How nice. But if Social Security is the mandatory safety net retirement benefit for Americans, then all Americans need to participate in it.

    I doubt the Social Security trust fund would have been raided -- or placed in the dire condition it is today -- if members of Congress had to pay into the system as well. They are masters at protecting their own skins, so I've got to believe they would have insured the trust fund was in good condition all along.
    http://news.yahoo.com/social-securit...191700024.html


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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    I can't believe the Social Security dilemma has never been brought up before...
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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    It has.

    And when I use the term "entitlement", I'm using it sarcastically...in the same way I address the able-bodied who are on the dole and refuse to work as "entitled".
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    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    I go the opposite way on it. If a program is universally recognized as 100% insolvent, the responsible thing to do is to stop throwing taxpayer money down the hole.
    We obviously have to take care of the folks who have been forced into this and are dependent, but the ponzi scheme needs to end.

    I also disagree with the notion that Obama can be defeated on his record, considering that a racist crackhead with a prison record was re-elected to be Mayor of DC. I wish he *could* be defeated on his record, but even if that were true Romney ain't the guy to do it.
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    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    It has.

    And when I use the term "entitlement", I'm using it sarcastically...in the same way I address the able-bodied who are on the dole and refuse to work as "entitled".
    I didn't mean you specifically. I meant the guvment turning something that we pay into our entire adult lives in to a subsidy hand out.
    Besides have you seen the paperwork and all the hoops a person has to jump through just to collect on their own money?


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    Reigning Black & Gold Array title="venom has a reputation beyond repute"> venom's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    Question------Why was it bad for me to pay $3.89 for gas under Bush.......

    and it now "good" to be paying over $4.15 under Obama?



    Thanx in advance , lol

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    Quote Originally Posted by venom View Post
    Question------Why was it bad for me to pay $3.89 for gas under Bush.......

    and it now "good" to be paying over $4.15 under Obama?



    Thanx in advance , lol
    hey, that's perfect...I'm going to steal from my own facebook post from just about an hour ago:

    Let me give you one more example of Obama's blame game, then I've got to do some work. He recently stated (and this is part of his ridiculous "All of the above" energy policy) that "Either the energy companies win, or the American people win, but not both" and this is part of a strategy to tax energy companies more. Here are the many, many problems with this policy: First, the tax deductions and credits the oil companies take are no different than any other industry. They just seem big because they are extremely large companies. And that's just the point. Energy companies employ nine MILLION Americans. In 2011, Exxon-Mobile made a 9.6 billion dollar profit....BUT it also contributed 72 billion in taxes, plus all the dividends it paid out to IRA's, pension and mutual funds. So the net contributions these companies make is actually very positive. And he knows it, because then he speaks out the other side of his mouth and claims that domestic production is way up under his administration, which is ironic, because his policies actually have nothing at all to do with that. So his solution to lower gas prices is to....raise taxes on energy companies. And people seem to be buying that. The problem is that it's ridiculous. And I'm not sure what he's going to do. He's recently said himself that he knows high gas prices hurt his chances to be re-elected (interesting that that seems to be his primary worry, and not the welfare of the citizenry), yet he doesn't have any plan or idea how to get the costs down. Clinton paved the way by deregulating the Commodities Future Trading Commission back in 2000, and it's been estimated that speculation alone has exaggerated the price of oil as much as 40%. Or how about qualitative easing's effect on gas? QE1, QE2, and now QE3 have all resulted in almost immediate 30% spikes in the price of gas. Why not quit printing off extra money and dumping it into the economy? QE's are his, and the Commodity Futures Modernization can be reviewed and overturned if need be...
    Fire Goodell

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    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI

    Quote Originally Posted by venom View Post
    Question------Why was it bad for me to pay $3.89 for gas under Bush.......

    and it now "good" to be paying over $4.15 under Obama?



    Thanx in advance , lol
    Lets not forget obaaama likes to blame Bush for what he inherited.

    Obaaama inherited $1.89gal. gas.


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    Reigning Black & Gold Array title="venom has a reputation beyond repute"> venom's Avatar

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    Re: Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Killing SSI


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