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Thread: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

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    Exclamation Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    The NFL has kept the Wonderlic results under tighter wraps than usual this year. Or maybe the media has had enough other things to keep itself occupied.

    Regardless, the first eye-opening score has leaked from the 2012 edition of the 50-question Wonderlic test. Per multiple league sources, LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne scored a four.

    Yes. A four. Out of 50.


    read more

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...the-wonderlic/

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Geez...what did he do, answer every question with the word, "potato?"
    http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/7714131/15251346/321617073.jpg

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Look, statistically speaking, it's really not possible to get much less than a 10-12. This is a multiple choice test, and you have 12 minutes to answer 50 questions, so if you just mark "A" you should get 10-12 right.

    I said the same thing for Vince Young when he scored a 6...this guy is, most likely, illiterate. Look at the evidence. About half (yes, HALF) the people in Detroit are functionally illiterate. The schools sucks, and they just pass kids through....Detroit is hardly alone in this. Texas is a decent school, but LSU is hardly the University of Chicago. They probably had some other person take his tests for him and let it slide because he's a stud on the gridiron.

    My guess is that when young got to the NFL, they taught him to read, and they'll do the same with this guy. But it's a sad situation. On another note, I've taken a Wonderlic, and it ain't all that hard. IQ tests are much, much more difficult.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    I think it's really unfair to potential draft prospects that the NFL lets Wonderlic scores slip out. That information should only be available to the teams. If it slips out then if the source is found out the offending party and team should be subject to severe disciplinary actions by the league including fines, suspensions, and loss of draft choices.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    It is so much more complicated than Player "X" got a "Y" on his test so we can determine "Z".

    1. I'd be willing to bet the score is incorrect. This happens all the time. Terrelle Pryor was reported to get a 7. That was false. Greg McElroy was aaid to have gotten a 48. That was false. I don't know why PFT keeps reporting Wonderlic scores when they are chroncily incorrect.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...the-wonderlic/
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...the-wonderlic/

    And yes, while they're pulling those reports after other beat writers report it, it doesn't make it acceptable. How many times must someone be punched in the face before they put up their hands?

    2. We know the Wonderlic scores are closely guarded. I believe they are adminstered by GMs only. For example, Kevin Colbert gave Terrelle Pryor his test. Scouts don't have knowledge of the test scores. Greg Gabriel of National Football Post wrote today,

    The League has stated that the scores are to be kept private and, in many cases, the scouts at most clubs don’t know the scores.
    3. Claiborne has a learning disabiilty. This was also backed up by Gabriel.

    When Claiborne came out of high school, the schools that recruited him knew he had a learning disability. I don’t know much about his disability other than it has to do with reading. Everyone I have talked to tells me that Claiborne has great character and is a great kid. He knows and understands his disability and uses all the resources that LSU has available to control it and to help him get by in the classroom
    And now he is splashed all over the media, getting killed for being an idiot over something he can't control. While the learning disability is a legitimate concern, teams already knew that. I bet no one was expecting him to get 40 on it.

    4. He started on one of the best defenses facing SEC compeition. Unless he has to figure out how at what time two trains will meet at Omaha on the football field, I could really care less.

    I'm usually not one to complain about the media but it has really made me feel sick and disgusted lately. There are some good guys out there like Gabriel but the overwhelming majority don't care about doing their homework. I saw a report a few days before William Gay signed with the Cardinals that the Steelers were out of the running. When all you had to go was go to his Twitter and see that he listed the Steelers as one of the final four candidates. Unreal.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    It takes about two minutes to find that he had a 2.5 GPA and a score of 20 on his ACT (which is pretty poor). So we already knew that he wasn't the best test taker. If the report is false, and it probably is, and he really got a 15, that would be expected. So it's much ado about nothing.

    Here's a link to the GPA and ACT info. It's on Scout and Rivals. I'm sure if I had an insider pass to Scout, I could find an article talking about the disability

    http://louisianastate.scout.com/a.z?...d=3860877&pg=4

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    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I think it's really unfair to potential draft prospects that the NFL lets Wonderlic scores slip out. That information should only be available to the teams. If it slips out then if the source is found out the offending party and team should be subject to severe disciplinary actions by the league including fines, suspensions, and loss of draft choices.
    This!

    Also think that if someone has a learning disability or whatever and doesn't think
    They will
    Do well, just skip the test for crying out loud...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    He couldn't spell "LSU" if you spotted him the "L" and the "U".
    All Defense!

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    C'mon.

    These guys are "paid" to play football. Nobody gives a shit if they can read.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    C'mon.

    These guys are "paid" to play football. Nobody gives a shit if they can read.
    They're also human beings and you can bet they hear about this from their friends.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    They're also human beings and you can bet they hear about this from their friends.
    My response was directed more towards the apologists saying that "This simply cannot be!".

    Of course it can. This stuff still goes on...athletes get special treatment from about 6th grade on...
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Either Claiborne is dumber than dirt or he put forth no effort and randomly guessed everything.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Wonderlic scores are garbage. That said, I doubt he got a 4. Anyone who has listened to Claiborne talk knows he's not stupid. He's probably just bad at tests. I don't put much stock in written tests or exams. I think they are a poor way to judge a persons intellect and are one of the larger reasons a lot of the most successful people in this country did not attend college. Claiborne is an amazing prospect. Has the best instincts of anyone in this draft class, is a complete corner and carries himself well & speaks well. If any team were to pass on him due to this score, accurate or inaccurate, they'll be regretting that mistake for a very long time.


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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    The report has to be wrong. A 20 on the ACT is nothing special, but you only need a 17 to play college football and the national average is something like 21 or 22. Based on all known information he's slightly below average.

    No way did he score that low.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Wonderlic scores are NOT "garbage". It's been around since 1936, and has literally been used millions of times in hundreds of professions as a gauge of aptitude and intelligence. As in any case wher a standardized test is used, there are variables that might mitigate scores, but, by and large, these things are pretty reliable at judging relative intelligence.

    Do the naysayers really believe that the NFL uses this test for no reason at all?
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Wonderlic scores are NOT "garbage". It's been around since 1936, and has literally been used millions of times in hundreds of professions as a gauge of aptitude and intelligence. As in any case wher a standardized test is used, there are variables that might mitigate scores, but, by and large, these things are pretty reliable at judging relative intelligence.

    Do the naysayers really believe that the NFL uses this test for no reason at all?
    I guess we'll just have to wait and see how far Claiborne falls then, huh?


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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    He probably won't fall at all. He's a cornerback, not a quarterback. His job is to react.

    This isn't about his relative retardation or (much more likely) illiteracy, this goes back to the hypocrisy that many college football programs have nothing at all to do with education.

    And if the wonderlic is useless, I ask, why does the NFL still use it?
    Last edited by X-Terminator; 04-04-2012 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Removed unnecessary comment. No more flame-baiting, period.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    He probably won't fall at all. He's a cornerback, not a quarterback. His job is to react.

    This isn't about his relative retardation or (much more likely) illiteracy, this goes back to the hypocrisy that many college football programs have nothing at all to do with education.

    And if the wonderlic is useless, I ask, why does the NFL still use it?
    If it is true that he has a LD, and hasn't been completely coddled throughout his schooling, then I give him serious props for excelling in his chosen field. I have been a teacher for a good while now, and have seen many children who severely struggle in academics excell in their non-core classes, like mine. I'm not tooting my own horn or anything, I teach music for a living and see "special need" kids do well all the time. Everybody can learn, it's just a matter of how and how fast.
    Last edited by X-Terminator; 04-04-2012 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Removed inflammatory comment in quote.
    http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/7714131/15251346/321617073.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Wonderlic scores are NOT "garbage". It's been around since 1936, and has literally been used millions of times in hundreds of professions as a gauge of aptitude and intelligence. As in any case wher a standardized test is used, there are variables that might mitigate scores, but, by and large, these things are pretty reliable at judging relative intelligence.

    Do the naysayers really believe that the NFL uses this test for no reason at all?
    It's not taken seriously by most of these potential draft picks...do therefore, it gets knocked as not having a lot of credibility. Also the results are supposed to be private...obviously, they never are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Luck reportedly scored a 41.

    Anyway, the test is 80 years old, and is used by hundreds of companies in their hiring process, INCLUDING the NFL. It obviously serves a purpose, whether some MB ham-n-eggers believe it or not.

    I get back to the fact that some schools are obviously just passing their best athletes through. College football is big business. That also makes the accomplishments of schools like Notre Dame and Stanford (the latter especially) who hold and KEEP their entrance standards very, very high all the more impressive.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Anyone think SEC football players do any of their schoolwork? I mean really...

    The SEC wont suspend guys or punish schools for academic reasons, and the NCAA wont hurt it's current cash cow by doing anything about it. UK basketball is the exact same too.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    He probably won't fall at all. He's a cornerback, not a quarterback. His job is to react.

    This isn't about his relative retardation or (much more likely) illiteracy, this goes back to the hypocrisy that many college football programs have nothing at all to do with education.

    And if the wonderlic is useless, I ask, why does the NFL still use it?
    If it's not useless, I ask, why will he "probably not fall at all". You just proved my point for me. It's garbage.


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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Because he's a cornerback. Probably the position requiring the LEAST intellect on the whole team.

    Would you draft a quarterback who scored a 4?

    I would not. Because it most likely is a strong indicator that the guy will not even be able to read the playbook.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Luck reportedly scored a 41.

    Anyway, the test is 80 years old, and is used by hundreds of companies in their hiring process, INCLUDING the NFL. It obviously serves a purpose, whether some MB ham-n-eggers believe it or not.

    I get back to the fact that some schools are obviously just passing their best athletes through. College football is big business. That also makes the accomplishments of schools like Notre Dame and Stanford (the latter especially) who hold and KEEP their entrance standards very, very high all the more impressive.
    Say it with me, suit. Learning disabiilty. There's a reason why the score is low.

    And like I said. It's very likely higher than a four.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Say it with me, suit. Learning disabiilty. There's a reason why the score is low.

    And like I said. It's very likely higher than a four.
    Yeah....did you read further? That learning disability centers around............say it with me now..........................HIS ABILITY TO READ.

    People who can't read are called "illiterate". Say it with ME now. People who can't read, or have difficulty reading, are I-L-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E.

    Why does every fucking thing I post here end up in an argument? If this kid was a football stud, he's be working as a landscaper...LSU walked him through.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    If his learning disability is reading comprehension, then his score could be much improved if he had an "exception" and took the test verbally. I have heard of people doing that with the SAT. Regardless, at this point he's probably not too worried about tests anymore. He seems to understand arithmetic, and he knows what top 10 equals.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Whatever his score, it should be a private matter. I was listening to ESPN radio yesterday afternoon and Doug Gottlieb was just brutalizing this poor kid with one dumb joke after another.

    I get it that the kid is coming in for a nice pay day soon enough. But really getting slammed all over the air and internet for being a supposed dummy has got to cut to the bone.

    Outside of testing poorly this kid did nothing I've heard of to bring this sort of ridicule on himself.

    If I were an agent of a can't miss non qb prospect I would probably tell the people at the NFL combine to shove the wonderlic test right up their ass( not let my client take the test) and tell them this sort of incident is exactly why.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    I agree the leak should be plugged, and the offender penalized.

    This probably happened from a team who has interest, but is not in position for the pick. They're thought being they could possibly scare another team away releasing the info.

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Luck reportedly scored a 41.

    Anyway, the test is 80 years old, and is used by hundreds of companies in their hiring process, INCLUDING the NFL. It obviously serves a purpose, whether some MB ham-n-eggers believe it or not.

    I get back to the fact that some schools are obviously just passing their best athletes through. College football is big business. That also makes the accomplishments of schools like Notre Dame and Stanford (the latter especially) who hold and KEEP their entrance standards very, very high all the more impressive.

    Or maybe not.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/sto...ic-sources-say


    A 2009 study by professors from Fresno State University, the University of Georgia and Towson State found no connection between Wonderlic scores and performance during the first three years of a player's NFL career. The group studied 762 players from the 2002, 2003 and 2004 draft classes.

    John W. Michel, an assistant professor at Towson University who co-authored the study, told The Washington Post: "We found in no cases was cognitive ability related to [football] performance. We did find a negative relationship for tight ends and defensive backs. For defensive backs, it was the most pronounced; basically, the lower you scored on the Wonderlic, the better you performed."
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Claiborne gives birth to a four on the Wonderlic

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Or maybe not.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/sto...ic-sources-say


    A 2009 study by professors from Fresno State University, the University of Georgia and Towson State found no connection between Wonderlic scores and performance during the first three years of a player's NFL career. The group studied 762 players from the 2002, 2003 and 2004 draft classes.

    John W. Michel, an assistant professor at Towson University who co-authored the study, told The Washington Post: "We found in no cases was cognitive ability related to [football] performance. We did find a negative relationship for tight ends and defensive backs. For defensive backs, it was the most pronounced; basically, the lower you scored on the Wonderlic, the better you performed."
    Well, then there is the 26-27-60 thing I posted elsewhere. But, you know, whatever...

    Point STILL is, these kids get a pass through high school and college. The SEC is bad in this regard...most of the schools are bottom-of-the-barrel academically. I guess it's un-PC to point it out openly, though...
    Fire Goodell

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