2012 Draft Hub

[Chidi29]

Thanks guys. Enjoy sharing it with you and being able to have good draft discussion. Don't get that anywhere else.

[Chidi29]

Wow, shutdown, I feel really stupid.

When you said Bobbie Massey, I was thinking of Bobby Wagner, the LB out of Utah St. That's why I went off talking about watching Gapelu. You probably had no idea what I was talking about.

[suitanim]

Impressive!

I can only comment on a very few players, guys I have watched a lot.

1) Whitney Mercilus/Illinois- He's a pass rushing freak, who causes fumbles and wreaks havoc on QB's. Even though you have him listed as "Not much of a prospect", there is reportedly interest from both San Diego and Cleveland in taking this kid in the first round. You have him listed as the eighth best DE prospect, and he may not last past #22 in the first. He could also end up as a 3-4 OLB.

Jordan White/Western Michigan- While I was never super impressed with anything in particular, he always seemed to destroy my Zips. He's not fast, he's not flashy, and I don't see him ever being a #1, BUT I also never saw him drop a pass...if it was anywhere even near him, he caught it. This kid could be a late round sleeper as a #3 possession-type guy in the vein of a Wayne Chrebet, although he has much better size.

Ishmaa’ily Kitchen/ Kent St: 6’3 334- Interesting that you have him on here. I've seen him play in person, but I still can't tell you much about him other than he COULD be a very, very good NT in a 3-4. But he seemed to play very inconsistently. He'd be in the backfield 3 plays in a row, disrupting things, then you'd never see or hear from him again all game (even though he was definitely on the field). Not sure what to attribute that to, maybe conditioning? I can't imagine he'll be drafted, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers have been to watch him workout, so maybe an FA signing?

[Chidi29]

Impressive!

I can only comment on a very few players, guys I have watched a lot.

1) Whitney Mercilus/Illinois- He's a pass rushing freak, who causes fumbles and wreaks havoc on QB's. Even though you have him listed as "Not much of a prospect", there is reportedly interest from both San Diego and Cleveland in taking this kid in the first round. You have him listed as the eighth best DE prospect, and he may not last past #22 in the first. He could also end up as a 3-4 OLB.

Jordan White/Western Michigan- While I was never super impressed with anything in particular, he always seemed to destroy my Zips. He's not fast, he's not flashy, and I don't see him ever being a #1, BUT I also never saw him drop a pass...if it was anywhere even near him, he caught it. This kid could be a late round sleeper as a #3 possession-type guy in the vein of a Wayne Chrebet, although he has much better size.

Ishmaa’ily Kitchen/ Kent St: 6’3 334- Interesting that you have him on here. I've seen him play in person, but I still can't tell you much about him other than he COULD be a very, very good NT in a 3-4. But he seemed to play very inconsistently. He'd be in the backfield 3 plays in a row, disrupting things, then you'd never see or hear from him again all game (even though he was definitely on the field). Not sure what to attribute that to, maybe conditioning? I can't imagine he'll be drafted, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers have been to watch him workout, so maybe an FA signing?

The numbers are impressive for Mercilus, I'll grant you that, and the fact he forced 9 fumbles in mind-boggling. But a lot of the pressure I saw in the two games I watched came from him being virtually unblocked. Rarely did I see him get a beat off the edge, dip the shoulder and get to the QB. Or some variation where he went through/around the tackle and finished the play. He will be drafted high but I base these rankings on my own personal thoughts of how good the prospect will be, not how high he'll go. He won't be the 8th DE taken in my mock, I can tell you that much though he willl probably be lower because my mock is more about what I think "should" happen as opposed to what "will" happen.

I see a lot more Freddie Barnes in White than I do Chrebet. He's not going to be able to separate from man coverage and while he does an ok job against zone, he isn't a dyanmic slot threat. He isn't going to get vertical and isn't going to get you mmuch YAC.

I looked at Kitchen after LLT was talking about him. One reason why he may have been hot and cold was the fact he dealt with a nagging shoulder injury his senior year. I don't have a "I'm sold/I'm not sold" solid conviction on him because he always got limited snaps when I saw him play but from a mesurables standpoint alone, he's interesting. There are always too few zero techs for the number of teams that need one. There are probably only six or seven guys that fit the 6'2 330 mold and a lot of them are late round projects (Jean-Baptise out of Baylor, Asa Chapman from Liberty, a kid from William Penn).

[suitanim]

Whites YPC was a respectable 14 as a true #1 (The last two years). That compares pretty favorably to Antonio Browns 10 playing against similar competition. I've found that to be about the most accurate gauge as to the ability to separate at the next level.

Kitchen is definitely on the Steelers radar (I looked it up...he has worked out in front of them). With Hampton back, and McClendon plus another higher NT draft pick, there's nothing wrong with signing him to a FA contract and seeing what he can do. Apparently, he's in the best shape of his life right now, too...

[Chidi29]

Whites YPC was a respectable 14 as a true #1 (The last two years). That compares pretty favorably to Antonio Browns 10 playing against similar competition. I've found that to be about the most accurate gauge as to the ability to separate at the next level.

Kitchen is definitely on the Steelers radar (I looked it up...he has worked out in front of them). With Hampton back, and McClendon plus another higher NT draft pick, there's nothing wrong with signing him to a FA contract and seeing what he can do. Apparently, he's in the best shape of his life right now, too...

I'm just looking at what I saw on the tape (which admitedly is just one game so that has to be factored in). And it isn't just YPC. It's yards after catch, YAC. I didn't see that from him. To me, he's a guy that is reliable with soft hands but is more a product of the spread system. He certainly doesn't play nearly as fast as Antonio Brown. Not the vertical threat nor does he have the explosiveness Brown has in his game.

[Chidi29]

Whites YPC was a respectable 14 as a true #1 (The last two years). That compares pretty favorably to Antonio Browns 10 playing against similar competition. I've found that to be about the most accurate gauge as to the ability to separate at the next level.

Kitchen is definitely on the Steelers radar (I looked it up...he has worked out in front of them). With Hampton back, and McClendon plus another higher NT draft pick, there's nothing wrong with signing him to a FA contract and seeing what he can do. Apparently, he's in the best shape of his life right now, too...

Kitchen would be a good risk/reward pick. I mean, the team is going to have to draft a NT eventually, right? Seems like every year I say they finally will but they never do.

[suitanim]

Over the years I've noticed that the Steelers don't drift far from the list of players they've looked at/brought in to the list of players they draft and sign. This seems like a smart FA pick-up to me...I wonder if he's sneaking onto any teams draft radar?

[Chidi29]

Over the years I've noticed that the Steelers don't drift far from the list of players they've looked at/brought in to the list of players they draft and sign. This seems like a smart FA pick-up to me...I wonder if he's sneaking onto any teams draft radar?

These teams went to Kent State's Pro Day.

With scouts from the Cleveland Browns, New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Indianapolis Colts and Miami Dolphins in attendance at Kent State football’s Pro Day, senior defensive lineman Ishmaa’ily Kitchen and senior center Chris Anzevino garnered the most attention.

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/k...t-ksu-pro-day/

[suitanim]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but there's a kid out of Kent named Roosevelt Nix who is going to be a stud at the next level, too...he's playing DL right now at Harrison's height and weight, but I could easily see him converting to NFL OLB. We have....um....had a little bit of luck over the years with Kent State linebackers!

OK, back to the 87 other listed picks!!!!

[ShutDown24]

Wow, shutdown, I feel really stupid.

When you said Bobbie Massey, I was thinking of Bobby Wagner, the LB out of Utah St. That's why I went off talking about watching Gapelu. You probably had no idea what I was talking about.

I was a little confused by the linebacker statement, but I honestly just assumed there was a player by the name of Gapelu somewhere on the Ole Miss roster haha.

[Chidi29]

I was a little confused by the linebacker statement, but I honestly just assumed there was a player by the name of Gapelu somewhere on the Ole Miss roster haha.

[Chidi29]

Haven't forgotten about Weeden shutdown.

[ShutDown24]

Haven't forgotten about Weeden shutdown.

Haha okay, no hurry. Still have months to debate this class before we see any action of them as pros.

[EVANS49]

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE THE PLAYERS YOU WATCHED???

[EVANS49]

http://youtu.be/VwGt2Int9WU ...check out philip gapelu's highlights!!!!! what do you think??

[Chidi29]

HOW DID YOU CHOOSE THE PLAYERS YOU WATCHED???

Just by whoever is on TV and whatever is available on the Internet.

[EVANS49]

After the season,how do u feel Gapelu measures up?Undersized,true.But what are the chances teams will bring him in?

[Chidi29]

After the season,how do u feel Gapelu measures up?Undersized,true.But what are the chances teams will bring him in?

At best, he'll get taken as a flier in the 7th. But he'll land in a camp somewhere, probably in a zone blocking scheme that can use his athletic and pulling abiliity.

[Chidi29]

Like last year, my list of small school prospects. Guys I never watched but ones who put up some pretty crazy stats. That doesn't have the most weight, obviously, but they're at least fun to look at. One guy I had on my list last year, Tyler Beiler, is now a Steeler.

Andrew Huck/QB Butler – 6’2 198
2011: 204/312 2241 yds 20 TD 7 INT
Three year starter
http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m..._andrew00.html

Adam Neugebauer/QB West Virginia Wesleyan – 6’2 210
2011: 353/521 4111 yds 40 TDs 14 INT
http://wesleyanbobcats.com/sports/fb...%20adam%20id65

Dane Simoneau/QB Washburn – 6’3 227
2011: 280/482 4089 yds 38 TDs 12 INT
2010: 223/374 3549 yds 33 TDs 12 INT
http://www.wusports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2225

Hewitt Tomlin/QB John Hopkins – 6’2 190
2011: 225/334 2683 yds 24 TD 10 INT (9 games)
2010: 234/376 3309 yds 24 TD 10 INT
http://www.hopkinssports.com/sports/..._hewitt00.html

Brock Jackolski/RB Stony Brook – 5’10 198
2011: 215 1418 yds 16 TDs, 854 kick ret yds, 1 ret TD
2010: 149 1029 yds 9 TD, 788 kick ret, 1 ret TD
http://www.goseawolves.org/sports/m-...i_brock00.html

Rashaad Slowley/RB Southern Connecticut St – 6’0 205
2011: 274 1584 yds 27 TDs
http://www.southernctowls.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1999

Travis Daniels/RB UNC Pembroke – 5’10 205
2011: 292 1631 yds 15 TDs
2009: 147 1042 yds 11 TDs
http://uncpbraves.com/sports/fball/2...0travis%2045oh

Anthony Carter/RB Bridgewater (VA) – 5’11 205
2011: 167 1044 yds 10 TDs
http://bridgewatereagles.com/sports/...r_anthony_qld1

Justin Spaulding/RB Dubuque – 5’10 198
2011: 216 1340 yds 16 TDs

Rashaad Carter/WR Tusculum – 6’3 205
2011: 70 1056 yds 8 TDs
2010: 81 1004 yds 8 TDs
http://www.tusculumpioneers.com/prof...p?playerID=473

Jamar Howard/WR Central Missouri St – 6’4 220
2011: 71 1199 yds 13 TDs
http://www.ucmo.edu/athletics/footba...ward_Jamar.cfm

Michael Zweifel/WR Dubuque – 6’1 190
2011: 140 1915 yds 25 TDs
2010: 36 512 yds 2 TDs (4 games)
2009: 111 1522 yds 15 TDs

Wes Schmidgall/WR Eureka – 6’1 190
2011: 73 1274 yds 16 TDs
2009: 63 1247 yds 16 TDs
http://www.eureka.edu/athletics/foot...allbio11.shtml

Jordan Wilkins/WR Hartwick – 6’1 200
2011: 63 1119 yds 8 TDs
2010: 52 1061 yds 12 TDs
http://www.hartwickhawks.com/roster....&path=football

Donavan Robinson/DE Jackson St – 6’3 250
2011: 58 tkls 23.5 TFL 16 sks
2010: 52 tkls 18.5 TFL 8 sks
http://jsutigers.cstv.com/sports/m-f...donavan00.html

Jerome Raymond/DE Morehead St – 6’4 245
2011: 68 tkl 15.5 TFL 11.5 sks
2010: 59 tkls, 11.5 sks
http://www.msueagles.com/roster.aspx...&path=football

Ryan Davis/DE Bethune Cookman – 6’4 240
2011: 65 tkls, 21.5 TFL 12 sks, 17 hurries 8 FF
2010: 57 tkls 18 TFL, 6.5 sks
http://www.b-cuathletics.com/sports/...is_ryan00.html



Louis Baltazar/LB Lewis & Clark – 6’1 245
2011: 73 tkls, 21 TFL, 8.5 sks
http://www.lcpioneers.com/sports/fba...ltazar%20louis

Bryce Robertson/CB Bucknell – 5’9 180
2011: 13 INTs, 6 PBU
Four Year Starter
http://www.bucknellbison.com/sports/...n_bryce00.html

Elijah Davis/CB Shepard – 5’8 182
2011: 35 tkls, 6 INT, 4 TD
http://www.shepherdrams.com/profile....8104&sport=330

Clarence Laster/S Southwestern Oklahoma St – 6’0 190
2011: 97 tkls, 8 INT 2 TD
http://www.swosusports.com/profile.asp?playerID=315

Laron Scott/RS Georgia Southern – 5’9 179
2011: 34 ret* 1040 yds 30.6 avg 2 TD, 3 INTs 21 PDs
2010: 44 ret* 1161 yds 26.4 avg,, 6 INTS 16 PDs
* Kick Returns
http://www.georgiasoutherneagles.com...CLID=204766009

Dontae Smith/RS East Central – 6’1 176
2011: 18 ret 631 35.1 avg 2 TDs, 18 PBU
2010: 6 INTs
http://www.ecutigers.com/profile.asp?playerID=357

[EVANS49]

I APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE!!!

[EVANS49]

WHAT ARE SOME TEAMS THAT USE THE ZONE BLOCKING SCHEME THAT YOU REFER TO? OR IS THAT MOST OF THE NFL??

[Chidi29]

Haha okay, no hurry. Still have months to debate this class before we see any action of them as pros.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZa0Z...ure=plpp_video

10:42. Feels pressured and does a nice job stepping up to avoid it but can't/doesn't set his feet and the throw ends up high (still catchable but that should be pitch and catch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XooC...eature=related
:57. Heavy pressure, throws up a lame duck
1:17. LB stunt and one comes in free. Weeden doesn't see the safety waiting and throws it into his arms/

Just a couple examples, I didn't comb through as closely as I did before.

I usually don't like to make comments about someone's suppoerting cast being too good because I think that's often times a poor argument but I'll say this. I think pressure if foreign to Weeden. Most of the time, he had all day to throw in the pocket. He isn't used to it breaking down around him.

His presence isn't as bad as say Blaine Gabbert, no one will be worse than him, but it concerns me. Which is a shame because when Weeden has time and a clean pocket, he's probably the second best pure passer in this year's draft.

[ShutDown24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZa0Z...ure=plpp_video

10:42. Feels pressured and does a nice job stepping up to avoid it but can't/doesn't set his feet and the throw ends up high (still catchable but that should be pitch and catch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XooC...eature=related
:57. Heavy pressure, throws up a lame duck
1:17. LB stunt and one comes in free. Weeden doesn't see the safety waiting and throws it into his arms/

Just a couple examples, I didn't comb through as closely as I did before.

I usually don't like to make comments about someone's suppoerting cast being too good because I think that's often times a poor argument but I'll say this. I think pressure if foreign to Weeden. Most of the time, he had all day to throw in the pocket. He isn't used to it breaking down around him.

His presence isn't as bad as say Blaine Gabbert, no one will be worse than him, but it concerns me. Which is a shame because when Weeden has time and a clean pocket, he's probably the second best pure passer in this year's draft.

Thanks for the examples.

I still maintain that he will be okay. I feel like those are aberrations when I run them against my notes from original study, but who knows. I really like Weeden so perhaps there is an unintended bias on my part. If he was 22 and I was the Colts, Luck wouldn't be a lock for me. I think Weeden's arm is significantly better in all phases.

I'll be interested to see how he plays out once he gets into the league. If he looks like a deer in the headlights, I'll take my share of crow