Afghanistan now Obama's war.

[ricardisimo]

Yep , Osama should have been dead in 1998 when our armed forces had him in radar twice but the great Clinton put a stop to the strke due to their were tents with children in the area. Those kids are now 12 years older and making bombs . Allah Akbar !!

Does it make you feel any better to know that "they" can use the same reasoning to defend 9/11? That now there are that many fewer investment brokers to screw their countries over? And that they can add the same sarcastic tone to a "Long Live Capitalism" or "God Bless America" cry? Where exactly does that get you? Do you sleep better at night knowing that all of the children we are killing would inevitably have become suicide bombers?

[NJarhead]

Quite apropos to a war thread in an NFL forum, there is a new documentary coming out shortly regarding Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan, and his own views on the war, which he shared with his very supportive, very patriotic family. It looks very well made, and I'm eager to see it.

The merry-go-round never stops, obviously, so I'll give it the obligatory push from my end: We could have had bin Laden handed to us with a ribbon, but that would have prevented us from invading.

"My president"? Who, pray tell, is that? Cynthia McKinney? Ralph Nader? Ron Paul? If I were you, I'd start saying to myself: "I disagree with absolutely everything that President Slimeball does or says, and he seems to like these wars, so I had better start reassessing my own support for them." That would never occur to you, though, true patriot that you are. You get a smiley.

Where did you serve, by the way?

Oh I forgot that you like to play with a fence post up your ass (Safer that way).

Where did I serve? Like you would have any frame of reference to relate???? All you need to know is that I DID serve and I served honorably. If you had any ideas about judging me based on where and when I served, let me just stop you right there. You are not in any position to judge me (or anyone else for that matter) on their military service. You ARE NOT one of my peers in that regard and as far as I'm concerned, you don't have the right. Clear?

If Bin Laden had surrendered who knows what would have happened??? Obviously you are claiming to know (Which is comical considering how uninformed you are).

[ricardisimo]

Oh I forgot that you like to play with a fence post up your ass (Safer that way).

Where did I serve? Like you would have any frame of reference to relate???? All you need to know is that I DID serve and I served honorably. If you had any ideas about judging me based on where and when I served, let me just stop you right there. You are not in any position to judge me (or anyone else for that matter) on their military service. You ARE NOT one of my peers in that regard and as far as I'm concerned, you don't have the right. Clear?

If Bin Laden had surrendered who knows what would have happened??? Obviously you are claiming to know (Which is comical considering how uninformed you are).

Calm down, Skippy. No one's judging you, it was just a simple question. If you say you served honorably, that's fantastic... more power to you. The point here is that you claim to be in some position to be well-informed about the war in Afghanistan, and we'd all like to know how so. The problem is that when you make claims about us being in Afghanistan to get "a group of folks who are responsible for terrorist acts (aka Cold Blooded Murder) on American soil," that's not being informed. That's being a good boy and repeating what you're told by the higher-ups. If someone like Pat Tillman - who actually did serve - can muster the courage to question his president and his commanding officers, then I think most everyone else in uniform can do the same.

So, where did you serve?

[ricardisimo]

If Bin Laden had surrendered who knows what would have happened???

I have to assume he would have been put on trial and executed. Did you have different ideas?

[NJarhead]

Oh I forgot that you like to play with a fence post up your ass (Safer that way).

Where did I serve? Like you would have any frame of reference to relate???? All you need to know is that I DID serve and I served honorably. If you had any ideas about judging me based on where and when I served, let me just stop you right there. You are not in any position to judge me (or anyone else for that matter) on their military service. You ARE NOT one of my peers in that regard and as far as I'm concerned, you don't have the right. Clear?

If Bin Laden had surrendered who knows what would have happened??? Obviously you are claiming to know (Which is comical considering how uninformed you are).

I read Ric. That's how I'm informed. When there are specials with folks who travel with our troops in Afghanistan I watch and listen to their accounts and that of those who are indigenous to the region.

Are you saying nearly 3,000 Americans were not murdered on 9-11???? And you expect to be taken seriously???

I have to assume he would have been put on trial and executed. Did you have different ideas?

That was in response to your saying we would have still invaded. Please, lay off the sauce if your going to torture us with your BS.

[ricardisimo]

I read Ric. That's how I'm informed. When there are specials with folks who travel with our troops in Afghanistan I watch and listen to their accounts and that of those who are indigenous to the region.

Are you saying nearly 3,000 Americans were not murdered on 9-11???? And you expect to be taken seriously???



That was in response to your saying we would have still invaded. Please, lay off the sauce if your going to torture us with your BS.

You may read, but not terribly well, from what I can see here. I realize that you've figured out from watching Cheney and Bush for all of those years that one should be able to simply bring up 9/11 and wave it around like a magic wand, and all questions and criticism are to cease. But of course you're not the president or VP... you're a nobody, and no one cares what you're waving around. The question remains: why did we invade Afghanistan? If the cause was 9/11, as you say, then we should by all rights have invaded Saudi Arabia. But we didn't. If it was about capturing Osama bin Laden, then we could have followed standard extradition procedures, and as I said earlier he would almost certainly have been tried, found guilty and executed. Do you think some other fate awaited him? [This is the part where you break into the standard rant about the ACLU, and how they would have ruined everything.]

Where did you serve? And sitting on planes with servicemen and servicewomen doesn't count. I've done that as well... with distinction, I might add.

[NJarhead]

You may read, but not terribly well, from what I can see here. I realize that you've figured out from watching Cheney and Bush for all of those years that one should be able to simply bring up 9/11 and wave it around like a magic wand, and all questions and criticism are to cease. But of course you're not the president or VP... you're a nobody, and no one cares what you're waving around. The question remains: why did we invade Afghanistan? If the cause was 9/11, as you say, then we should by all rights have invaded Saudi Arabia. But we didn't. If it was about capturing Osama bin Laden, then we could have followed standard extradition procedures, and as I said earlier he would almost certainly have been tried, found guilty and executed. Do you think some other fate awaited him? [This is the part where you break into the standard rant about the ACLU, and how they would have ruined everything.]


Where did you serve? And sitting on planes with servicemen and servicewomen doesn't count. I've done that as well... with distinction, I might add.

None of your fucking business. Got it? And again, YOU are in no position to judge ANYONE's service. Who gives a shit that you sat next to a serviceman/woman on a plane??? Which side of your face did you talk out of on THOSE days???

I can't believe there are people out there who see the world the way you do. Everything is some god damn conspiracy. There is no talking to people like you because you've got all of your BS angles covered because you can't be put into any one group; you always have some BS escape in another direction.

I asked YOU "Are you saying nearly 3,000 Americans were not murdered on 9-11???? And you expect to be taken seriously???" Your answer has NOTHING to do with politics or any politician. Your answer will determine just how far up your ass your head actually is.

[Mach1]

[venom]

[venom]

Does it make you feel any better to know that "they" can use the same reasoning to defend 9/11? That now there are that many fewer investment brokers to screw their countries over? And that they can add the same sarcastic tone to a "Long Live Capitalism" or "God Bless America" cry? Where exactly does that get you? Do you sleep better at night knowing that all of the children we are killing would inevitably have become suicide bombers?

To be honest with you , yes I would feel better . I went through 9/11 here in NYC . I saw the second plane hit the tower right infront of me !!! I saw the dead bodies . The smell of the fuel and of the burnt bodies lasted for 7 months after the attack and it will never escape me . Its either us or them and I will pick them dead in a heartbeat !! America first ! For some reason liberals seem to forget about that . Ask the ACLU who care more about the " feelings " of terrorists than Americans .

[stillers4me]

To be honest with you , yes I do feel better . I went through 9/11 here in NYC . I saw the second plane hit right infront of me !!! I saw the dead bodies . The smell of the fuel and the burnt bodies burned for 7 months after the attack and it will never escape me . Its either us or them and I will pick them dead in a heartbeat !!!!!

[NJarhead]

To be honest with you , yes I would feel better . I went through 9/11 here in NYC . I saw the second plane hit the tower right infront of me !!! I saw the dead bodies . The smell of the fuel and of the burnt bodies lasted for 7 months after the attack and it will never escape me . Its either us or them and I will pick them dead in a heartbeat !! America first ! For some reason liberals seem to forget about that . Ask the ACLU who care more about the " feelings " of terrorists than Americans .

I sometimes forget that these fools claiming to be "in the know" never experienced that. I too lived with the acrid smell in my living room for a few months. I spent that first week in New York harbor on a CG 47' MLB providing security, transporting firemen and supplying/getting supplied by downtown firehouses. I'll never forget seeing the names of their missing on the large green chalk board. It was the most somber atmosphere I will ever experience.
I was fortunate not to lose any loved ones; too many friends of mine cannot say the same thing.

I'm sick of assholes, only nine years later, using 9/11 as a fucking joke. I don't have the words to describe the anger I feel when I read that crap.
Folks like Ric? well, he's a blind ideologue. His natural instinct is that the U.S. is a major problem in the world. We are the cause of all evil, injustice and intolerance. In his eyes, there is ALWAYS a conspiracy. Always! and why? Because he is so fucking boring that it gives his life meaning, even if it's just for a few hours on a forum, if he can only take the opposite view as everyone else. He has no interest in politics. His views are self serving on a day-to-day basis.

"What outlandish view can I push on people today for attention?" - Ricardismo.

[venom]

Like I said in the prior post, I was there everyday for 7 months after the attack . And when I wasnt there , I was in Staten Island NY standing in front of a conveyor belt of debris from the World Trade Center and making sure no body parts pass me up . Nice huh ?

[suitanim]

You don't invade Russia in Winter, and you don't ever try to occupy Afghanistan. Don't know how they missed those details.

Failure again. As usual.

Had Japan, who was toying with the idea from the very second Hitler broke his non-aggression pact and invaded Russia, joined in and invaded Russia from the East, even as late as December (when they instead sent their Navy to Pearl Harbor), Russia would have fallen to the Axis powers. In less than one year.

Secondly, Afghanistan has been successfully invaded many times. Genghis Kahn successfully invaded the Country in 1220. Timur swept through and laid the region to waste in the early 1380's. The difference is they simply invaded, destroyed everything, and crushed the populace under their subjugation. The "evil US" which you hate so much has a little bit more humanity and a larger and longer view in mind.

There's also the axiom "don't fight a war on two fronts"...which the US did with great success in WWII. I'm surprised you didn't toss that one out...

I love it when you lecture, and especially when you really project your "knowledge" arrogantly and with such overbearing condescension...it's laughable to see someone so SURE they are always right get called out for almost always being completely wrong.

[NJarhead]

Failure again. As usual.

Had Japan, who was toying with the idea from the very second Hitler broke his non-aggression pact and invaded Russia, joined in and invaded Russia from the East, even as late as December (when they instead sent their Navy to Pearl Harbor), Russia would have fallen to the Axis powers. In less than one year.

Secondly, Afghanistan has been successfully invaded many times. Genghis Kahn successfully invaded the Country in 1220. Timur swept through and laid the region to waste in the early 1380's. The difference is they simply invaded, destroyed everything, and crushed the populace under their subjugation. The "evil US" which you hate so much has a little bit more humanity and a larger and longer view in mind.

There's also the axiom "don't fight a war on two fronts"...which the US did with great success in WWII. I'm surprised you didn't toss that one out...

I love it when you lecture, and especially when you really project your "knowledge" arrogantly and with such overbearing condescension...it's laughable to see someone so SURE they are always right get called out for almost always being completely wrong.

BRAVO!!!

[ricardisimo]

None of your fucking business. Got it? And again, YOU are in no position to judge ANYONE's service. Who gives a shit that you sat next to a serviceman/woman on a plane??? Which side of your face did you talk out of on THOSE days???

I can't believe there are people out there who see the world the way you do. Everything is some god damn conspiracy. There is no talking to people like you because you've got all of your BS angles covered because you can't be put into any one group; you always have some BS escape in another direction.

I asked YOU "Are you saying nearly 3,000 Americans were not murdered on 9-11???? And you expect to be taken seriously???" Your answer has NOTHING to do with politics or any politician. Your answer will determine just how far up your ass your head actually is.

You need to bring it down several dozen notches, little man. We can hear your screams from here, which means your neighbors are hating life right about now.

At some point it will click in your brain that I'm not a Democrat, and that I think Obama is easily as sleazy as Bush. When it does click for you, you can drop the whole pretense that somehow I play "both sides" of the fence, or whatever other ludicrous claim you like to make. My stance hasn't changed since I've been here, nor will it in the foreseeable future. Why this gets your panties in a bunch is beyond me. Get another hobby.

As for 9/11, obviously what took place on 9/11 was cold-blooded murder, and I stated it as such repeatedly. I was actually scolded for this stance by Mach (and/or Indo) as they deemed it grossly insufficient to call 9/11 a crime against humanity. "It was an act of war!!" they shouted at me. Well, now they can shout at you instead.

Nothing I've said here questions whether or not 9/11 took place or whether or not it was a crime. Quite to the contrary, I'm telling you that our government could have had bin Laden handed over to us, and yet they failed us in this regard (and numerous others). Could you quote the part where I questioned the truth of 9/11, or where I subscribed to any sort of 9/11 conspiracy? I'd appreciate it, and feel free to peruse all of my posts here and at SFF.

Please clarify why it is that you keep using 9/11 in your arguments (a profound disrespect to the dead, if I may say so myself). I know it has something to do with licking our presidents' asses, but I'm unclear on the details.

Where did you serve, exactly? And once again, sitting on a plane with service folks doesn't count, unless you were one of them.

[ricardisimo]

Failure again. As usual.

Had Japan, who was toying with the idea from the very second Hitler broke his non-aggression pact and invaded Russia, joined in and invaded Russia from the East, even as late as December (when they instead sent their Navy to Pearl Harbor), Russia would have fallen to the Axis powers. In less than one year.

Secondly, Afghanistan has been successfully invaded many times. Genghis Kahn successfully invaded the Country in 1220. Timur swept through and laid the region to waste in the early 1380's. The difference is they simply invaded, destroyed everything, and crushed the populace under their subjugation. The "evil US" which you hate so much has a little bit more humanity and a larger and longer view in mind.

There's also the axiom "don't fight a war on two fronts"...which the US did with great success in WWII. I'm surprised you didn't toss that one out...

I love it when you lecture, and especially when you really project your "knowledge" arrogantly and with such overbearing condescension...it's laughable to see someone so SURE they are always right get called out for almost always being completely wrong.

Read what you've quoted from me again and see if you can decipher any problem with your "retort." Bravo, indeed. It would take two exceptionally poor readers to screw this one up.

[NJarhead]

You need to bring it down several dozen notches, little man. We can hear your screams from here, which means your neighbors are hating life right about now.

At some point it will click in your brain that I'm not a Democrat, and that I think Obama is easily as sleazy as Bush. When it does click for you, you can drop the whole pretense that somehow I play "both sides" of the fence, or whatever other ludicrous claim you like to make. My stance hasn't changed since I've been here, nor will it in the foreseeable future. Why this gets your panties in a bunch is beyond me. Get another hobby.

As for 9/11, obviously what took place on 9/11 was cold-blooded murder, and I stated it as such repeatedly. I was actually scolded for this stance by Mach (and/or Indo) as they deemed it grossly insufficient to call 9/11 a crime against humanity. "It was an act of war!!" they shouted at me. Well, now they can shout at you instead.

Nothing I've said here questions whether or not 9/11 took place or whether or not it was a crime. Quite to the contrary, I'm telling you that our government could have had bin Laden handed over to us, and yet they failed us in this regard (and numerous others). Could you quote the part where I questioned the truth of 9/11, or where I subscribed to any sort of 9/11 conspiracy? I'd appreciate it, and feel free to peruse all of my posts here and at SFF.

Please clarify why it is that you keep using 9/11 in your arguments (a profound disrespect to the dead, if I may say so myself). I know it has something to do with licking our presidents' asses, but I'm unclear on the details.

Where did you serve, exactly? And once again, sitting on a plane with service folks doesn't count, unless you were one of them.

"Little man?" Listen you insignificant little piss ant, YOUR dumb ass thinks we could have gotten Osama by simply asking for him (Which you've stated more than once). Well Brainchild, WE FUCKING DID! Our Government didn't fail us in that regard. Unless you're referring to Clinton's hesitation on pulling the trigger, but you know what? That's actually forgivable.

You're right about one thing, you don't play both sides of the fence. What I should have said was you have no ties what so ever. And that is because you're too much of a coward to tie yourself to any group, cause, party, etc. Lil' Miss "I have to be different and EVERYONE else is stupid."

Why do you hate your country Ric?

And don't tell me to tone it down until you promise to stop talking out of your ass.

[stillers4me]

This conversation is spiraling out of control and nobody wins. Thread closed.