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Thread: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

  1. #61
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by JayC View Post
    the worst part of spygate to me is that belicheat and company weren't even embarrassed about it. they just moved on like nothing happened. they should be in the hall of shame as far as im concerned. 0-2 post cheating..coincidence??
    Becuase they haven't had any success since then...

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    He's a moron?
    Good point.

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    He's a moron?
    Why restate the obvious? It's this (as O'Malley quite correctly pointed out): "But it being destroyed tells me they cheated and cheated bad enough to cause a fallout the league would not be able to recover from."
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Why restate the obvious? It's this (as O'Malley quite correctly pointed out): "But it being destroyed tells me they cheated and cheated bad enough to cause a fallout the league would not be able to recover from."
    Agree, the actual proof was destroyed because had it been proven that they in fact cheated to win 3 Super Bowls, and the evidence showed that they were doing such illegal things as stealing signals in real time and relaying the plays in real time to the QB in his ear during the game, and that is how Tom looked so awesome always knowing where the blitz was coming from, then the scandal around the 3 Trophies would have made the Black Sox Scandal look like a highschool basketball bracket betting pool.

    Not only would the SB Champsionships come into question, but every single Win of the entire reign would have been questioned including all regular season games and post season games that even allowed them to get into position to be a contender for the SB. The fact they started to win also helped them bring in better and better free agents over the years to bolster their roster. Had they stayed the One good season in 15 years type team they really were before the cheating, then the roster wouldn't have been as strong as it eventually was. Who wants to intentionally go to a loser team?

    Anyway...that's my opinion on the matter. And there are quite a few links and articles out there that show SB XLII was one of the most WiFi and Radio Signal locked down games of any of the SBs up to that point. Kind of funny how Tom doesn't seem to know where a blitz is coming from any longer since that game.

    Link 1:
    http://www.informationweek.com/news/206102020
    "frequency coordinator" at the Super Bowl...so no illegal signals could be used.
    SuperBowl Wins - How many does YOUR team have? Steelers 6, 49ers 5, Cowboys 5, Packers 4, Giants 4, Pats 4, Redskins 3, Raiders 3, Broncos 2, Dolphins 2, Colts 2, Ravens 2, Bears 1, Jets 1, Bucs 1, Rams 1, Chiefs 1, Saints 1, Hawks 1

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    And it was too big of a mess to clean up. So Goodell buried his head in the sand, and a franchise that cheated STILL only barely manged to win SB's (by three points each) and we are all supposed to pretend that everything is fine and Goodell is great.

    Bullshit. I'll never forgive and I'll never forget.
    Fire Goodell

  6. #66

    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I said they did things similar to the Pats, which they did. All situations involve videotaping and/or watching for and stealing signals.
    Your exact quote:

    While it's not right, what the Pats have been doing has and is common throughout the league.
    You did not say "similar".....your arguement was predicated on the statement that others HAVE and ARE doing what the Patriots did. And we asked for a link to prove that point.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Your exact quote:



    You did not say "similar".....your arguement was predicated on the statement that others HAVE and ARE doing what the Patriots did. And we asked for a link to prove that point.
    And then I repeatedly said throughout the rest of the debate that what has been done was "similar"

    And if you want to hold me to what you think I originally said, just go back to what I originally posted.

    all except the camera fixed on the bench of the team opposite our vantage point. Its operator keeps the viewfinder trained on the far sideline and the zoom tight on the two assistants who motion signals to the quarterback on the field. One of them is really signaling, the other is a decoy. Both are being filmed. Later the footage of their signals will be painstakingly matched with the plays to which they correspond, then analyzed, cross-referenced, and the signals decoded.”

    They are filiming the signals and looking at them later in an attempt to decode and steal information. I'm under the impression it was illegal to do that in 1986, wouldn't you agree?

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    But you're ignoring the other allegations. That they stole playbooks. The myriad radio frequency charges. We will never truly know juts how deep the rabbit hole goes, because Goodell had his head buried in another hole...
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    But you're ignoring the other allegations. That they stole playbooks. The myriad radio frequency charges. We will never truly know juts how deep the rabbit hole goes, because Goodell had his head buried in another hole...
    What is the proof behind that?

    And we already know that some reports have been wrong (that they taped the Rams' walkthrough). Who knows what else is right that is just a report.

    Again, not saying that they did was right. It is certainly NOT. Want to make that clear. But what they did isn't some sort of unthinkable, nothing like it even remotely close to being done before event. Every team steals signals, the Patriots just took it too far. It's not illegal unless you get caught, you know?

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Here are some quotes from your buddy Goodell in an interview with Bob Costas. Why would the NFL be monitoring this?

    “I’ve notified the Patriots that if there’s information that I’ve not been made aware of, or if it’s inconsistent with what I’ve been told, I will revisit” the decision, he told Bob Costas on NBC’s “Football Night in America,” which preceded last night’s San Diego-New England game."

    "He said the league was monitoring all the radio frequencies assigned to teams to determine if they were being used properly. NBC showed a crew of frequency coordinators working behind the Patriots’ desk last night."

    The NYT reported this:
    "Earlier in the day, “Fox N.F.L. Sunday,” which showed a copy of the Patriots’ video that the league confiscated, and CBS’s “The N.F.L. Today” reported that the league may investigate the Patriots’ use of audio receivers to interfere with the Jets’ quarterback-to-coach communications."
    "NBC reported that the Patriots might have wired linemen to pick up the Jets’ offensive audibles."

    This from the NY Post:
    The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during the game, the report said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.
    After a game in which NE routed the Jets 38-14, there were reports that the Pats were illegally monitoring the Jets coordinators radio frequencies.


    There's a ton of smoke, and, since it's New England, and they have a coach who mysteriously jumped from a record of .450 to .750, that probably means there's a fire.
    Fire Goodell

  11. #71
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Every year that the Patriots finish among the 31 teams who don't win the Super Bowl, we're going to have this same conversation, aren't we.

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Every year that the Patriots finish among the 31 teams who don't win the Super Bowl, we're going to have this same conversation, aren't we.
    They brought it on themselves.








  13. #73
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Every year that the Patriots finish among the 31 teams who don't win the Super Bowl, we're going to have this same conversation, aren't we.
    It would be worse if they won another Super Bowl..

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Every year that the Patriots finish among the 31 teams who don't win the Super Bowl, we're going to have this same conversation, aren't we.
    Well, DA STEALERS can't win a game without PAYING DA REFS either. Everyone has their cross to bear.

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Here are some quotes from your buddy Goodell in an interview with Bob Costas. Why would the NFL be monitoring this?

    “I’ve notified the Patriots that if there’s information that I’ve not been made aware of, or if it’s inconsistent with what I’ve been told, I will revisit” the decision, he told Bob Costas on NBC’s “Football Night in America,” which preceded last night’s San Diego-New England game."

    "He said the league was monitoring all the radio frequencies assigned to teams to determine if they were being used properly. NBC showed a crew of frequency coordinators working behind the Patriots’ desk last night."

    The NYT reported this:
    "Earlier in the day, “Fox N.F.L. Sunday,” which showed a copy of the Patriots’ video that the league confiscated, and CBS’s “The N.F.L. Today” reported that the league may investigate the Patriots’ use of audio receivers to interfere with the Jets’ quarterback-to-coach communications."
    "NBC reported that the Patriots might have wired linemen to pick up the Jets’ offensive audibles."

    This from the NY Post:
    The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during the game, the report said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.
    After a game in which NE routed the Jets 38-14, there were reports that the Pats were illegally monitoring the Jets coordinators radio frequencies.


    There's a ton of smoke, and, since it's New England, and they have a coach who mysteriously jumped from a record of .450 to .750, that probably means there's a fire.
    Sure, that's a lot of smoke, but when you're talking legal and illegal, you need fire. Need that hard evidence to prosecute them.

    The Pats never got into any trouble for that, correct? They were punished for the use of the videotapes only, right?

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Sure, that's a lot of smoke, but when you're talking legal and illegal, you need fire. Need that hard evidence to prosecute them.

    The Pats never got into any trouble for that, correct? They were punished for the use of the videotapes only, right?
    I'm not trying to convince you. You're welcome to think whatever you want to think.

    The NFL buried this matter. And they did so for a very good reason....the game would have been tainted forever. Maybe, relatively speaking, that WAS for the best.

    But I'm not EVER going to forget exactly what went down, and if I'm given the choice of giving the benefit of the doubt one way or the other, I will ALWAYS decide to indict the Patriots and their corrupt organization, not the other way around.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Won't it be a blast when, Brady, after 25 years of retirement and has spent all his money, will want to tell the truth about what happened in New England. Of course, he will be selling the story to the highest bidder.

    Come on Marsha, the truth shall set you free.

  18. #78
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I'm not trying to convince you. You're welcome to think whatever you want to think.

    The NFL buried this matter. And they did so for a very good reason....the game would have been tainted forever. Maybe, relatively speaking, that WAS for the best.

    But I'm not EVER going to forget exactly what went down, and if I'm given the choice of giving the benefit of the doubt one way or the other, I will ALWAYS decide to indict the Patriots and their corrupt organization, not the other way around.
    Fair enough. But can you answer my question suit? Because I really don't know/remember.

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I said they did things similar to the Pats, which they did. All situations involve videotaping and/or watching for and stealing signals.
    He said they used TELECASTS, which they would be stupid not too. He said they TRANSCRIBED the signals as they saw them with their own eyes. All of which it seems has been done for years. King's assessment that it is perilously close is way over blown , the two are NOT even close.
    Merry Christmas

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Fair enough. But can you answer my question suit? Because I really don't know/remember.
    It was buried. I don't even know if Goodell bothered to look into it. I don't think he wanted to hear anything else negative at that point.

    There were a BUNCH of people who said that all kinds of screwy things went on with their radios when they played in New England.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    I'd like to give this whole thread a thumbs up. We can never know exactly what happened as the evidence was destroyed, but we can never let it fade into the background or let it be forgotten, either. The Pats*** (3 asterisks - one for each stolen SB) have been punished little enough formally; I hope they can continue to at least be punished via public opinion. That seems little enough to pay, really, considering.

    Long ago, I wrote to a friend at SteelerFever:
    Not that I enjoyed losing to the Pats, but I just figured they had our number - no matter what team you support and how good they may be, there are going to be one or two teams you just struggle against, regardless. I figured the Pats and the Jags and sometimes the Ravens were just our nemesis and there wasn't much I could do about it. Teams tend to go in cycles of being good and being not-so-good, and I assumed that the Pats were on the upswing at this point in time. I gave credit to Brady and the Pats for being the better team (after I got over the sting of losing to them yet again). But after that cheating business came out, just the sight of Brady or Bellichick physically turns my stomach. I mean, literally makes me sick. I still don't see how they were punished (beyond paying $500,000, which, let's face it, probably wasn't that much of a hardship) and it really grinds my gizzard that they squeaked out all those SB wins cheating all the while. I'm mad as hell on behalf of the opposing teams who lost to them because of Vinatieri's foot. It's not like TB had these fabulous blow-out SB victories. And the talking heads NEVER seem to acknowledge any of it and continue to proclaim TB as the best evah evah evah w/o ever admitting he might have had an edge. They still pick the Pats to win the SB every single year, when they lost 42 and hadn't been before that since, what, 2004? I'm simply sick to death of hearing about GD TB.
    And that still holds true today. But they sure do seem to be snake bit since spy-gate. I was wondering last Sunday if they were to confess to everything, if their fortunes might not turn. Once Bellichick and Brady are gone, I will let go of my irrational dislike of the Patriots and they will simply become another team again. Until then, let them be snake bit.

  22. #82
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    He said they used TELECASTS, which they would be stupid not too. He said they TRANSCRIBED the signals as they saw them with their own eyes. All of which it seems has been done for years. King's assessment that it is perilously close is way over blown , the two are NOT even close.
    They use video to try and steal signals. That's what the Pats did....the Pats just took it too far and yes, what they did was illegal and worse. But their is a fine line.

  23. #83
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    It was buried. I don't even know if Goodell bothered to look into it. I don't think he wanted to hear anything else negative at that point.

    There were a BUNCH of people who said that all kinds of screwy things went on with their radios when they played in New England.
    So they were never punished for it?

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    So they were never punished for it?
    It was completely buried. Most people don't even know anything about it, but it was obviously (albeit briefly), mentioned in public and even acknowledged by your good buddy Goodell.
    Fire Goodell

  25. #85
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    It was completely buried. Most people don't even know anything about it, but it was obviously (albeit briefly), mentioned in public and even acknowledged by your good buddy Goodell.
    So you're calling a coverup? A conspiracy?

  26. #86
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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    So you're calling a coverup? A conspiracy?
    Absolutely.

    Think about it. There were ALL KINDS of complaints. Radio's crackling and cutting out. I think even Doug Flutie once mentioned something in passing about peculiarities, and HE PLAYED FOR THE TEAM!

    There was just no way Goodell could handle this as well. His goal was to quickly and quietly make this die. His "best team" was cheating and stealing rings...there were only two roads to take: The right one, which would have been hard and ugly, or the easy and wrong one, which was over quick.

    He choose the easy one.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    What I'm starting to think about is how come no one has blown the whistle. Belicheat is not the most admired person. I'm a little surprised that no one from those Pats* teams has not made any headlines by telling all. Has Goodell put a gag order on ex-Pats*?

    I have not drawn any conclusions yet, but it strikes me as strange.

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    Re: The elephant in the stadium: Spygate's cloud of innuendo still dogs Patriots*

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    What I'm starting to think about is how come no one has blown the whistle. Belicheat is not the most admired person. I'm a little surprised that no one from those Pats* teams has not made any headlines by telling all. Has Goodell put a gag order on ex-Pats*?

    I have not drawn any conclusions yet, but it strikes me as strange.
    Because they don't want big fat astericks next to their "accomplishments"... ***

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