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Thread: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

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    Living Legend Array title="Dino 6 Rings has a spectacular aura about"> Dino 6 Rings's Avatar

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    I don't disagree that its more favorable to be an effecient passing team. I agree with that. However, the Giants are not a spread passing offense and are not a pass it first type team. They still try to establish the running attack. And their stats suck so bad on the year cause they had a game where they got 29 yards rushing against the Eagles and 2 other where they were just under 60 yards for the game against the Cardinals and Dolphins.

    The only game the Giants lost where they had 100+ Yard rushing in the game was the first game against the Packers.

    For the games they won, their rushing numbers are as follows:
    vs Rams 119
    vs Eagels 102
    vs Cardinals 54
    vs Bills 122
    vs Dolphins 58
    vs Patriots 111
    vs Cowboys 110
    vs Jets 115
    vs Cowboys 106

    They try to run the ball as a philosophy.

    I say if they get to 100 yards against the Patriots rushing in the SB they have a great chance of winning the game.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    The most important players of the Giants in Super Bowl will be Eli, Nicks and Cruz.

    The running game was not a factor against GB and SF.They attempted 64 pass against the 49ers!

    The giants can not be patient with the running game against the Patriots.

    This year, the Steelers attempted 50 passes against the Patriots because the Patriots were very weak against the pass, the Giants must do the same thing.

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    running the ball + TD and Redzone Efficiency= winning TOP battle= Putting pressure in other offense= good recipe for winning.


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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    passing the ball + TD and Redzone Efficiency= winning TOP battle= Putting pressure in other offense= good recipe for winning.
    fity

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    And Aaron Rogers and Drew Breese couldn't make it out of the Second round.
    The Packers' defense sucked all season and were already showing signs of slowing down, and the Saints' D couldn't come through in the clutch. On the other hand, neither the 49ers nor Ravens could pass the ball well enough to get the job done with their average QBs and no WRs.

    The bottom line is you need to be able to pass the ball effectively in order to win. Period. You cannot be a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense and win consistently in today's NFL. Sorry to disappoint the "Cowherball" fans.








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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    The Packers' defense sucked all season and were already showing signs of slowing down, and the Saints' D couldn't come through in the clutch. On the other hand, neither the 49ers nor Ravens could pass the ball well enough to get the job done with their average QBs and no WRs.

    The bottom line is you need to be able to pass the ball effectively in order to win. Period. You cannot be a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense and win consistently in today's NFL. Sorry to disappoint the "Cowherball" fans.
    You need to do both. That's the point. Balance is what wins. The Giants are not a pass first team. They win when they establish the run and work off that. Its in the numbers. They lose when they don't get to 100 yards rushing more often than not. I'm not a Cowherball/Marty Ball fan as much as I am a fan of a balanced attack. I am not a fan of the 3rd and 1 shotgun formation, just as much as I am not a fan of a 1st and 10 run play every time. You need to have balance. Coughlin is a balanced offense coach. His defense is what wins him championships and he has an Elite QB that makes big plays in big games.

    So...are the Giants a "top rushing" Team in the NFL this season...Nope...but do they want to be? I say yes. Injuries prevented that from happening.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    You need to do both. That's the point. Balance is what wins. The Giants are not a pass first team. They win when they establish the run and work off that. Its in the numbers. They lose when they don't get to 100 yards rushing more often than not. I'm not a Cowherball/Marty Ball fan as much as I am a fan of a balanced attack. I am not a fan of the 3rd and 1 shotgun formation, just as much as I am not a fan of a 1st and 10 run play every time. You need to have balance. Coughlin is a balanced offense coach. His defense is what wins him championships and he has an Elite QB that makes big plays in big games.

    So...are the Giants a "top rushing" Team in the NFL this season...Nope...but do they want to be? I say yes. Injuries prevented that from happening.
    I think we're on the same page here. I'm all for balance, which is why I'm a big fan of the Saints' offense. They can beat you any way you want (except outdoors, apparently, but that's another story). Top 10 in rushing, top 5 in passing and top 5 overall. You have to be good in both areas to be an elite team.








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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    You need to do both. That's the point. Balance is what wins. The Giants are not a pass first team. They win when they establish the run and work off that. Its in the numbers. They lose when they don't get to 100 yards rushing more often than not. I'm not a Cowherball/Marty Ball fan as much as I am a fan of a balanced attack. I am not a fan of the 3rd and 1 shotgun formation, just as much as I am not a fan of a 1st and 10 run play every time. You need to have balance. Coughlin is a balanced offense coach. His defense is what wins him championships and he has an Elite QB that makes big plays in big games.

    So...are the Giants a "top rushing" Team in the NFL this season...Nope...but do they want to be? I say yes. Injuries prevented that from happening.
    I'd be interested in the numbers that back that up, that the Giants had balance this year.

    Eli thhrew 133 passes in the first quarter this season. The Giants ran the ball around 95 times. Eli threw the ball 254 times on first down. The Giants ran it about 190 times. Surely there were teams with more balance like that.

    I looked into a balance study two offseasons ago, I believe. And Arians came out to have the 7th most balanced offense in the league.

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    And are we still dong the red zone numbers study Dino?

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I'd be interested in the numbers that back that up, that the Giants had balance this year.

    Eli thhrew 133 passes in the first quarter this season. The Giants ran the ball around 95 times. Eli threw the ball 254 times on first down. The Giants ran it about 190 times. Surely there were teams with more balance like that.

    I looked into a balance study two offseasons ago, I believe. And Arians came out to have the 7th most balanced offense in the league.
    I started to look at those same exact numbers, but its tough cause I'm at work. I was looking at their tendencies on their first possessions of each game, they were pretty balanced as I got through week 8, pretty much, changed it every game, Game 1 first play run, Game 2 first play pass, Game 3 first play Run, Game 4, first play pass, and so on.

    I'd love to do the redzone study, but like I said, time is limited. I need to keep the kids and wife off the home computer for like 4 hours one night this week and really crunch some stuff.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    I understand. If you can't get to it, it's no big deal. Besides, it's a long offseason. No rush.

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I understand. If you can't get to it, it's no big deal. Besides, it's a long offseason. No rush.

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    LOL it is a long off season!
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Bronco's (suck), Chiefs, Jags, Dolphins, Raiders, Vikings, Eagles...
    So your point is that Chiefs were a much better team before their best RB was lost to injury, Raiders were a very powerful team until their best RB was lost to injury, Running is all the Vikings had and were still pretty good at it, the Eagles lost every game where their star RB didn't touch the ball 25 times, Jags were a terrible team but still found a way to beat a few teams by running the ball, and the Dolphins got much better once they started getting Reggie the ball more.
    Merry Christmas

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post

    I looked into a balance study two offseasons ago, I believe. And Arians came out to have the 7th most balanced offense in the league.
    It was 55 pass/45 run in 2011. Almost exactly. That's pretty good balance in a passing league.

    So, since we averaged 4.4 a carry, and we were balanced, THAT'S two of the haters arguments taken off the table.

    This all comes back around to a very simple and accurate point or two: 1) Arians was never nearly as bad as he was vilified to be and 2) We will be lucky to find a more successful replacement
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    It was 55 pass/45 run in 2011. Almost exactly. That's pretty good balance in a passing league.

    So, since we averaged 4.4 a carry, and we were balanced, THAT'S two of the haters arguments taken off the table.

    This all comes back around to a very simple and accurate point or two: 1) Arians was never nearly as bad as he was vilified to be and 2) We will be lucky to find a more successful replacement
    And yet he was inconsistent, bullheaded, bad at situation coaching, bad at preparing his unit and terrible in the redzone. I personally think the guy had trouble getting past being a QB coach, he was good at that but had trouble doing more consistently. Every "hater" has different things they dislike about Arians, but the board must be so empty to you with so many on the ignore list.
    Merry Christmas

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    21st ranked scoring offense in 2011...awesome stuff...just awesome...
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    And yet he was inconsistent, bullheaded, bad at situation coaching, bad at preparing his unit and terrible in the redzone. I personally think the guy had trouble getting past being a QB coach, he was good at that but had trouble doing more consistently. Every "hater" has different things they dislike about Arians, but the board must be so empty to you with so many on the ignore list.
    All of that, and I mean ALL of it is opinionated nonsense. There ain't a fact in there to be had. Dino at least has one fact...and he's ignoring all the mitigating and contributing factors that led to that ranking. You're just spouting off garbage...
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Here is what I find most humorous about this whole mess:
    1) Arians was never as bad as the haters claimed
    2) The haters automatically assume his replacement will be an upgrade
    3) They are also automatically assuming he will fail in Indy
    4) They are also already questioning and, in some cases, openly deriding some of the rumored candidates to replace him.

    All this adds up to a spoiled rotten, misinformed crowd of people who simply will NEVER BE HAPPY WITH A STEELERS OC!
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    All of that, and I mean ALL of it is opinionated nonsense. There ain't a fact in there to be had. Dino at least has one fact...and he's ignoring all the mitigating and contributing factors that led to that ranking. You're just spouting off garbage...
    When I get some time, I'll actually have more facts which will include the horrible stats our offense achieved in the redzone. But I need the time.

    Plus, I think, top of my head cause I looked at it a lot over the last couple weeks, Arians offense was ranked 9, 20, 12, 12, 21 in that order. Its not bottom of the barrell awful, but it wasn't awesome either and for the "talent" on our offense, it seems it was underachieving. But like I said, Chidi and I are going to have a new thread of boring Redzone number crunching here some time soon I hope.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Redzone fact #1 that cannot be ignored. NFL defenses are built on "The attrition factor". Rarely will an NFL defense just give up a long play or two that leads to a quick score. How many drives are 2 plays long for 80 yards and a TD? Most drives are made up of 10-15 plays for 60-70, even 80 yards, and the longer the field, the more plays required. NFL defenses bend don't break. By our average starting field position being SO shitty this year, even with all the weapons, we were bound to break-down in execution sooner or later. Sooner would have us punting from our own 30, and later would have us kicking FG's instead of scoring TD's. That happened this year. A LOT. And it happened more on the road, and later in the year. That's tough to attribute SOLELY to the OC.

    If it's time to move on, it's time to move on. But given the circumstances we faced last year, the new OC had better hope for a little more help from his OL, D and ST.

    Also, oe final note on this idea that a new OC is going to some how fundamentally change the way Ben plays. Nuh-uh. It ain't happening. I'm a MAC guy, and I've seen him play a lot at Miami. This is how he plays. It is his style. There's no way to change it. He's a "gunslinger" type guy, and even the ghost of Bill Walsh couldn't change it if he tried.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Redzone fact #1 that cannot be ignored. NFL defenses are built on "The attrition factor". Rarely will an NFL defense just give up a long play or two that leads to a quick score. How many drives are 2 plays long for 80 yards and a TD? Most drives are made up of 10-15 plays for 60-70, even 80 yards, and the longer the field, the more plays required. NFL defenses bend don't break. By our average starting field position being SO shitty this year, even with all the weapons, we were bound to break-down in execution sooner or later. Sooner would have us punting from our own 30, and later would have us kicking FG's instead of scoring TD's. That happened this year. A LOT. And it happened more on the road, and later in the year. That's tough to attribute SOLELY to the OC.

    If it's time to move on, it's time to move on. But given the circumstances we faced last year, the new OC had better hope for a little more help from his OL, D and ST.

    Also, oe final note on this idea that a new OC is going to some how fundamentally change the way Ben plays. Nuh-uh. It ain't happening. I'm a MAC guy, and I've seen him play a lot at Miami. This is how he plays. It is his style. There's no way to change it. He's a "gunslinger" type guy, and even the ghost of Bill Walsh couldn't change it if he tried.
    If Brett Favre could change so can Ben.

    And before anyone goes asking how the hell did Brett ever change? Try this. In Brett's first 9 years as a Packer starter he was sacked 299 times, an average of 33 per year. Only once in that 9 year span was he sacked less than 30 times in a season. In his final 7 seasons with the Packers he was sacked 139 times, or on average just under 20 per season. And he actually attempted slightly more passes per year in those last 7 years, so it wasn't because he was throwing less.

    I don't think anyone's asking Ben to make wholesale changes to his game. Just a little tweak is all that's wanted. And for whatever reason Art II didn't think Arains was going to bring about that tweak in Ben's playing style.

    And finally, I predict Ben will do fine without Bruce, and Bruce will do well in Indy.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Well at least we all agree that money needs to be spent on our Oline to be sure our 100 Million dollar QB can last a couple more seasons...even though the High Ankle sprain this year was Not the oline's fault...he takes way too many hits too quickly in games.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    I don't disagree that its more favorable to be an effecient passing team. I agree with that. However, the Giants are not a spread passing offense and are not a pass it first type team. They still try to establish the running attack. And their stats suck so bad on the year cause they had a game where they got 29 yards rushing against the Eagles and 2 other where they were just under 60 yards for the game against the Cardinals and Dolphins.

    The only game the Giants lost where they had 100+ Yard rushing in the game was the first game against the Packers.

    For the games they won, their rushing numbers are as follows:
    vs Rams 119
    vs Eagels 102
    vs Cardinals 54
    vs Bills 122
    vs Dolphins 58
    vs Patriots 111
    vs Cowboys 110
    vs Jets 115
    vs Cowboys 106

    They try to run the ball as a philosophy.

    I say if they get to 100 yards against the Patriots rushing in the SB they have a great chance of winning the game.
    28 Rushes for 114 yards and a win...sometimes it feels really good being right.

    The Giants are not a great rushing team, but when they get to 100 yards or more, they win more often then not.
    Last edited by Dino 6 Rings; 02-05-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    There was nothing the Giants did that we couldn't do if we had an above average OL.

    Well, I take that back. With a minute left, down by 4, they held Gaydy to what? One completion for like 14 yards? In that same situation we let fucking Joe Flacco scorch us for a game winning TD.

    In OUR house!

    Our OC had nothing to do with our early departure in the playoffs.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    There was nothing the Giants did that we couldn't do if we had an above average OL.

    Well, I take that back. With a minute left, down by 4, they held Gaydy to what? One completion for like 14 yards? In that same situation we let fucking Joe Flacco scorch us for a game winning TD.

    In OUR house!

    Our OC had nothing to do with our early departure in the playoffs.
    Really? so 6 points on two visits into the Broncos redzone was a "successful" game plan in your mind?

    I see why you're still clinging to the notion that your man Bruce was so wonderful...if you think like that, there is no convincing you otherwise. Of coarse you are the only one right now...all the rest of the fans, the ownership, the players and the former players are all wrong...yep...that's the ticket.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    Really? so 6 points on two visits into the Broncos redzone was a "successful" game plan in your mind?

    I see why you're still clinging to the notion that your man Bruce was so wonderful...if you think like that, there is no convincing you otherwise. Of coarse you are the only one right now...all the rest of the fans, the ownership, the players and the former players are all wrong...yep...that's the ticket.
    I'm simply saying that the blame is not being distributed properly. You are welcome to your opinion. We sucked on the road. We won, on average, 25-10 at home and lost 18-14 on the road. If you want to lay all that at the feet of the OC, that's fine. I'm stating, correctly, that the Giants defense, when they needed to, stepped up and got the job done against what is widely to considered tro be an elite QB. They were crowned champions. We, when faced with a similar situation, a situation that would have cemented for us a bye and homefield, choked miserably. It takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics to somehow overlook that fact and instead spin diversions and divert attention elsewhere.

    The fact is, we SHOULD have been 8-0 at home, and we very likely would have taken care of business in the playoffs. We were a completely different team on the road. How you guys continually find ways to pin every team failure, including lack of turnovers, defensive lapses, shitty road play and other intangibles all on one scapegoat just amazes me.

    And, back to Joe Greene. Seriously, the dude basically said all we do is pass. The stats prove him wrong. I love the guy, but being an ex-player doesn't necessarily mean that every editorial that spills out is a pearl of unquestionable wisdom.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    I'd also like to point out that I saw nothing in Gilbrides play calling that appeared to be in any way superior to BA's. He ran a couple bubble screens, too. The stat lines weren't even that different:

    Giants 30/40 passing for 282
    28 runs for 114

    Steelers 36/50 for 365
    23 runs for 89

    BA took what the Pats gave 'em. Gilbride did the same. He ran a little more, but not any more effectively. We averaged 4.3 a run to their 4.1, but we were a little more effective on yards per completion, at 10.1 to the Giants 9.4.
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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    Per this conversation, I said the Giants were Philosophically a Run First Team, and that if they stuck to their philosophy and got to 100+ yards rushing in this game they would most likely win.

    I was right.

    The Steelers offense failed to get the job done all year. The #21 Offense did not support the #1 Defense. Bottom line.

    I have pointed out fault with the Defense tons of times, I also think that we will soon be a 4-3 Defense as our Linebackers and Secondary get older and we don't find a 3-4 DT to replace Hampton. I think the writing is on the wall for the switch to what Tomlin prefers, as soon as Coach Dad is gone.

    Now, as for the defense and the Flacco drive, yep, it sucked big time. 13 pass plays in a row and 7 were completed for the win. However as I stated, with 4 mins left, the Steelers were unable to get more than 1 first down. And had to punt with over 2 mins left from the Ravens 34 yard line. One more first down wins that game. I believe the lack of being able to close out the game on offense was a Philosphical Issue. I had no personal hate or animosity toward Bruce as a man, I hated his Ideas on how to run an offense and in game situational play calling. And for the record, the Giants do have a Full Back on their Roster.
    SuperBowl Wins - How many does YOUR team have? Steelers 6, 49ers 5, Cowboys 5, Packers 4, Giants 4, Pats 4, Redskins 3, Raiders 3, Broncos 2, Dolphins 2, Colts 2, Ravens 2, Bears 1, Jets 1, Bucs 1, Rams 1, Chiefs 1, Saints 1, Hawks 1

  30. #90
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Colts to hire Bruce Arians as OC

    40 pass
    28 run

    That's 60/40 pass/run

    How the Hell passing the ball 12 more times then you run it "Run first" is beyond me.

    One could also look at last night's game and make the same exact apples-to-apples comparison. The Giants passed on 6 of their last 9 plays. If they ran the ball maybe 2 more times, they'd have run off enough clock to score as time expired. BUT they also might not have moved the ball as effectively.

    In the Steelers/Ratbirds game, if you go back and look at the play-by-play, the Steelers ran 6 plays, 2 were runs. The runs went for 1 yard and negative 3. 2 of the passes were incomplete (One to Johnson was an errant pass, more on the other later), and the other 2 went for 14 and 8 respectively. The KEY PLAY was a swing pass to Moore who was open in the flat. The pass was errant. If Moore catches that pass, the Steelers convert 3rd down, and get a fresh set of downs in Ratbird territory with 2:30 left and the Ravens with only 1 TO and the two minute warning.* We would have won that game, BUT how do you blame the OC for an errant pass? The two rushes we ran averaged -1 per rush. The passes averaged 5.5 per. The only thing we could have done is run more, and it wasn't working. The two passes we threw incomplete were both execution errors.

    Then the defense came out and collapsed.

    I'm sorry, in no known universe can you successfully make the OC culpable for that kind of break-down.


    *If we ran a set of four downs, they could only stop the clock twice. Even worst case for us, we run a play on 3rd down AFTER the two minute warning, then take a delay of game on 4th and punt, and the very BEST case for them is they get the ball at the 20 (assuming touchback, worst case for us again) with no TO's, 80 yards to go, and about 45 seconds left.
    Fire Goodell

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