Offense better without Hines?

[LLT]

Merril Hoge just made the statement on ESPN this morning that our offense is better without Hines in the starting lineup. He backed that up by saying that although Hines is one of the best to ever wear a Steelers uniform...He has lost a step and we are simply faster and quicker with our younger recievers.


I love Hines. I think he is a HOFer. But I actually think that Merril is correct.

Thoughts?

[BlastFurnace]

If I were on the coaching staff, I would need to see this young bunch do it again before I could make that claim. So far though, it looks pretty good. The noticable thing right now with Wallace/Sanders/Brown is that the defense has a very difficult task with their speed.

[The Duke]

Call me crazy, but all those stalls in the redzone yesterday could be fixed with Hines. At least one of the 4 times I think we'd find a way to get it to Hines

man always finds a way to get in

[Godfather]

I disagree. We used a different game plan from normal because of matchups.

Hines does a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet, and we could have used those things yesterday.

[steeldevil]

I think why the offense was better yesterday had more to do with finally letting Ben throw a lot and use some hurry up, as opposed to Hines being out.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Call me crazy, but all those stalls in the redzone yesterday could be fixed with Hines. At least one of the 4 times I think we'd find a way to get it to Hines

man always finds a way to get in

This is what I've wanted to see all season. Hines is still wiley enough to find holes in zones, but in the open field he doesn't have enough speed. Now, in a red zone offense where speed doesn't matter as much, he'll still be golden.

But, I heard Hoge say that this morning too and I agree with it. It's like severing ties with a veteran QB and taking your lumps with the rookie to get them gametime reps. We just need to go ahead and make the move. Still bring Hines in as the #4 or in red zone offenses.

[tube517]

Call me crazy, but all those stalls in the redzone yesterday could be fixed with Hines. At least one of the 4 times I think we'd find a way to get it to Hines

man always finds a way to get in

Hines is a wily vet who can find his way to the end zone. He may be slow but he still knows how to get those "hard to make" catches in tight spaces in the red zone. Don't count the old man out just yet. We still need him on the field to "coach" the young money crew.

[LLT]

I see reflections of Hines coaching these young guys up in a lot of the little things they do. Sanders and Wallace have become very accomplished route runners....and Wallace and Sanders are both very good blockers.

I can see situations in which I want Hines experience on the field...but as much as I hate to admit it...when I weigh the pros and cons, it seems to me that it might be that time to start playing more "young money" sets and start weening ourselves from the Hines Ward era.

I know...I know...its blasphemy!!!! I'm just trying to look at our situation from the outside looking in, based on our need to be as effective as possible.


Its more a reflection on the talent and determination of the young recievers (in which Hines gets considerable credit), then it is a reflection of Hines.

[Hindes204]

As I said in another thread, itll be a sad day for me when Hines finally does hang up his cleats, he epitomizes exactly what a Steeler should be. I for one still think hes got game left...sure, hes lost a step, but hes still a baller and can still make contributions.

[LLT]

As I said in another thread, itll be a sad day for me when Hines finally does hang up his cleats, he epitomizes exactly what a Steeler should be. I for one still think hes got game left...sure, hes lost a step, but hes still a baller and can still make contributions.

I think you are 100% correct....He isnt ready to be put out to pasture just yet. I just think that we are at that point when we need to play him less...and the young guns should get more reps.

[7SteelGal43]

I have to agree with Godfather and the Duke on this one.

[HometownGal]

I think why the offense was better yesterday had more to do with finally letting Ben throw a lot and use some hurry up, as opposed to Hines being out.

I agree. Hines still does some things as a veteran that the young guns haven't accomplished quite yet but will over time.

[LLT]

Added a poll to the question. Where is Hines at in his career with the Steelers?

[DEW Steelers]

I love Hines - my current jersey!! As stated by someone earlier, he does the intangibles that don't show up in the stat line like blow someone up and a backside block that releases the runner. I think he is definitely HOF, but if his playing time gets a little cut into by the sanders/brown/wallace I'm OK with that as well. He could be the 4th receiver in trips situations - he is a monster on third down and gets those tough yards.

[SteelerEmpire]

Hines is still dangerous as he's got very good hands and can get open on short to mid range routes. These younger guys do think they can move mountains... I like that as 90% of who you are (esp. in football) is what you "think" you are inside of your head. At the "least" Hines should be a WR's coach. But the fact that he's still a player on the team is a "substantial" mental and confidence lift for the other receivers.

[Chidi29]

I don't see why it has to be a question of "have the young guys play and severely limit Ward" and "play Ward and severely limit a young guy's playing time". In the age of 3 and 4 WR sets, you can have your cake and eat it to.

This first can get done by ridding the idea of "you have to run the ball and play Steelers' smashmouth football" that we've done a pretty good job of shaking. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of the run game but to get away from any "have to" feelings. Having to get a balance, having to run in this situation, having to pass in this one. All playcalls should have a logical reason behind them based on your own groupings or what the defense is showing.

[Butch]

1st of all what step did Hines lose??? He's never had the step.

2nd what vaunted defense did we play yesterday??? I will save my annointing until after we play the ratbirds this weekend and maybe even a few more games after that.

I have said it before and will say it again what Hines brings to the game is unique, and as stated already not measured by stats. He gets the tough yards and the tough catches on crucial 3rd downs and in the endzone.

Hines can start on my team anytime!!! Go Hines!!!

[LLT]

I don't see why it has to be a question of "have the young guys play and severely limit Ward" and "play Ward and severely limit a young guy's playing time". In the age of 3 and 4 WR sets, you can have your cake and eat it to.

This first can get done by ridding the idea of "you have to run the ball and play Steelers' smashmouth football" that we've done a pretty good job of shaking. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of the run game but to get away from any "have to" feelings. Having to get a balance, having to run in this situation, having to pass in this one. All playcalls should have a logical reason behind them based on your own groupings or what the defense is showing.

True...but the reality is that even in a passng offense you are going to run more 2-3 wide reciever sets than 4-5 reciever sets and often our 4th reciever is a TE.

I think the real question comes down to matchups. The porous pass defense of the Pats* was a perfect situation to play our young, quicker recievers. The matchup with the Ravens is more "iffy". Hines experience can come in handy for those players like Ed Reed who are not going to be caught out of position as often as the Pats*, but there is still an opportunity to exploit DB's like Williams and Webb with our speed recievers.

[Chidi29]

Exactly. You have the luxury of mixing and matching as the coaching staff sees fit. The answer doesn't need to be black and white. In fact, it shouldn't be.

[steelreserve]

Honestly, the way they're using him right now is pretty suited for his skills at this point in his career. They're not over-relying on him or forcing him into a role he's not good at any longer. He's on the field when they need his crafty veteran skills, and when they need other skills, like flashy moves and speed, Brown or Sanders rotates in. There's been plenty of room for both him and the young guys, and I think the coaches have handled it pretty well.

Beyond this year, I'm not sure if Ward really has a role on the team anyway; he's been talking about retirement for a few years now, and something just strikes me about this season as the time when all those circumstances are coming together. Will miss the hell out of him on this team, though, that's for sure.

[ALLD]

You all are spoiled. Next you will be calling to bench Wallace because he did not catch a pass over 40 yards against the Pats.

[Count Steeler]

3rd down money. Red Zone money. For all the positives yesterday, we sure could have used Ward in the Red Zone yesterday.

Also, how can you measure the intrinsic value he brings to the crew with his mentoring of the young monies? Reduced play time, yeah probably. Gone from the team? No way.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Mix it up with Hines with our young receivers, but honestly, i dont think we need him to start anymore. Manny and Antonio have proven they can play a lot better than him. I feel like it's more of a respect thing that he's still starting, i mean look at all he's done for us. It's kind of like how Donald Driver is still starting in Green Bay. It's pretty obvious that Jordy Nelson is better.

[stillers4me]

I can't believe you are are talking foolishness like this. Crazy talk, I tell ya...crazy!

[Devilsdancefloor]

I love hines, but father time is creeping up. i agree we are faster with him out of the line up, but his leadership on the field is important. i dont know how many times yesterday i seen him out of the field talking to young money. I voted for make him #4 WR. He will be on the field a lot even though he is the 4th WR and if coach doesnt think the young guys are getting it done put hines out there. His bloacking is important in our run game

[Psycho Ward 86]

Speaking of wide receivers blocking, how about some of those blocks by Sanders and Brown yesterday. Sanders especially made a couple DB's eat some serious turf!

[GoSlash27]

Ask Ben who he wants out there starting, and he'll give you all the reasons why we need Hines.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The speed of Brown makes him more dangerous than Hines. The speed of Brown and Wallace can open things underneath for Miller better. Hines still can find the seams in zones, but sadly he needs to get his 1000 receptions this season and retire so the young WR's can get on the field more.