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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
During the 2005 offseason the Vikings traded Randy Moss to the Raiders and got the 7th pick, a starting LB, and a conditional late round pick in return. Moss was 3 years younger then compared to how old AB is now but Moss had less than 1,000 yards the year before he was traded as well. Also in 2004, Moss walked off the field with 2 seconds remaining in the regular season finale then there was the fake Moon in the playoff game the next week. Of course the trade was made by Old old Al Davis so that may have helped push up the return the Vikings got. This should be a good sign that the Steelers could still get a solid return for AB
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
st33lersguy
During the 2005 offseason the Vikings traded Randy Moss to the Raiders and got the 7th pick, a starting LB, and a conditional late round pick in return. Moss was 3 years younger then compared to how old AB is now but Moss had less than 1,000 yards the year before he was traded as well. Also in 2004, Moss walked off the field with 2 seconds remaining in the regular season finale then there was the fake Moon in the playoff game the next week. Of course the trade was made by Old old Al Davis so that may have helped push up the return the Vikings got. This should be a good sign that the Steelers could still get a solid return for AB
Well, then there's also the fact that after that trade, Minnesota was basically dogshit for several years, with a semi-successful two seasons because of the Brett Favre cameo. They missed the playoffs something like 7 of the next 9 years.
That #7 pick turned into a dogshit receiver (Troy Williamson) who topped out at 400 yards and was out of the league at age 26. The starting linebacker had like 40 tackles and 1.5 sacks a year and was off the team in two seasons. Meanwhile, Moss had around 6,000 more receiving yards and 70 touchdowns, and played longer than both of them.
Does that sound like a trade where the Vikings got a solid return?
Point is, you don't trade players like that. Not unless you really have no choice. Very rarely does anyone remember the team that unloaded the superstar in his prime as rhe winner of such trades.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Well, then there's also the fact that after that trade, Minnesota was basically dogshit for several years, with a semi-successful two seasons because of the Brett Favre cameo. They missed the playoffs something like 7 of the next 9 years.
That #7 pick turned into a dogshit receiver (Troy Williamson) who topped out at 400 yards and was out of the league at age 26. The starting linebacker had like 40 tackles and 1.5 sacks a year and was off the team in two seasons. Meanwhile, Moss had around 6,000 more receiving yards and 70 touchdowns, and played longer than both of them.
Does that sound like a trade where the Vikings got a solid return?
Point is, you don't trade players like that. Not unless you really have no choice. Very rarely does anyone remember the team that unloaded the superstar in his prime as rhe winner of such trades.
No one ever wants to trade their star player and trading Brown should not be anything more than a last resort, and the loss of Brown will hurt the team, but at this point Brown is doing all he can to get himself traded and no effort on Brown's end is being made to repair the relationship. If a trade is indeed inevitable, it will be good to at least get a high round pick
I'd also argue getting the 7th pick in of itself is valuable, Minnesota just messed it up (That no. 7 pick could have turned into DeMarcus Ware or at least someone like Antrel Rolle)
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
st33lersguy
No one ever wants to trade their star player and trading Brown should not be anything more than a last resort, and the loss of Brown will hurt the team, but at this point Brown is doing all he can to get himself traded and no effort on Brown's end is being made to repair the relationship. If a trade is indeed inevitable, it will be good to at least get a high round pick
I'd also argue getting the 7th pick in of itself is valuable, Minnesota just messed it up (That no. 7 pick could have turned into DeMarcus Ware or at least someone like Antrel Rolle)
I just fail to see how we have no choice. You've always got a choice. The guy has three years left on his contract paying him $17M a year, what is he realistically going to do where we have no choice, short of retire now?
All we have to go by is a bunch of vague articles quoting unnamed sources, and a couple of social media shitposts. Nobody really knows what is going on.
And like - OK, let's say the player wants off the team. Are we forced to trade him? Fuck no, all the team has to do is say "Tough titty, you'll play for us or you'll play for no one, so get your shit together by August," and 90% of the time that's what happens. There are countless examples of exactly that. He's good enough as a player that I'd really rather just do that and see if he shows up. If it's a 50-50 chance, those are still better odds of that beating a trade.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
I just fail to see how we have no choice. You've always got a choice. The guy has three years left on his contract paying him $17M a year, what is he realistically going to do where we have no choice, short of retire now?
All we have to go by is a bunch of vague articles quoting unnamed sources, and a couple of social media shitposts. Nobody really knows what is going on.
And like - OK, let's say the player wants off the team. Are we forced to trade him? Fuck no, all the team has to do is say "Tough titty, you'll play for us or you'll play for no one, so get your shit together by August," and 90% of the time that's what happens. There are countless examples of exactly that. He's good enough as a player that I'd really rather just do that and see if he shows up. If it's a 50-50 chance, those are still better odds of that beating a trade.
So you would rather pay a disgruntled guy 17mil a year for the next 3 years when he's quit on the team in their final game? How many more times do you want to see him quit? Or maybe we get another season of Lev Bell drama. No thanks.
As for vague I do know what our owner Art Rooney said about the situation. If he's not seeing AB playing with us it has to be somewhat serious and I don't think he would be saying that if it wasn't something serious on AB's part. If it wasn't serious I am sure he would want to leave the door open and who knows maybe if AB has a complete change of heart then maybe something can be salvaged but I don't think that is going to happen. I am not holding my breath on that especially with him listening to James Harrison and chad whatever his name is from the bungles.
No I don't need to see a disgruntled AB on this team next year, either tanking the season or staging another LB style hold out. I will take my chances on change with a trade even if it doesn't work out.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Butch
So you would rather pay a disgruntled guy 17mil a year for the next 3 years when he's quit on the team in their final game? How many more times do you want to see him quit? Or maybe we get another season of Lev Bell drama. No thanks.
As for vague I do know what our owner Art Rooney said about the situation. If he's not seeing AB playing with us it has to be somewhat serious and I don't think he would be saying that if it wasn't something serious on AB's part. If it wasn't serious I am sure he would want to leave the door open and who knows maybe if AB has a complete change of heart then maybe something can be salvaged but I don't think that is going to happen. I am not holding my breath on that especially with him listening to James Harrison and chad whatever his name is from the bungles.
No I don't need to see a disgruntled AB on this team next year, either tanking the season or staging another LB style hold out. I will take my chances on change with a trade even if it doesn't work out.
the best predictor for future behavior is past behavior. The odds are AB is going to create drama and temper tantrum again. If he continues to catch 100 , with 1000 yards and 12 TD's I could accept a little drama. The quitting on team I cant accept(not that it matters what I accept). If Im in charge he needs to make amends to Tomlin, Rooneys and the whole team. Take accountability for week 17. If he does we can move forward, if not he gone.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Butch
So you would rather pay a disgruntled guy 17mil a year for the next 3 years when he's quit on the team in their final game? How many more times do you want to see him quit? Or maybe we get another season of Lev Bell drama. No thanks.
As for vague I do know what our owner Art Rooney said about the situation. If he's not seeing AB playing with us it has to be somewhat serious and I don't think he would be saying that if it wasn't something serious on AB's part. If it wasn't serious I am sure he would want to leave the door open and who knows maybe if AB has a complete change of heart then maybe something can be salvaged but I don't think that is going to happen. I am not holding my breath on that especially with him listening to James Harrison and chad whatever his name is from the bungles.
No I don't need to see a disgruntled AB on this team next year, either tanking the season or staging another LB style hold out. I will take my chances on change with a trade even if it doesn't work out.
Yes, I would rather pay a disgruntled player $17 million and get Pro Bowl production, and have the best 1-2 receiving punch in the league, than have ... Juju and question marks. Trading him is basically declaring "Our championship window is over, we're starting a rebuild that will take years." (Although you could make a case that we already said the same thing by keeping Butler and expanding his responsibilities.)
Most disgruntled players tend to become gruntled again very quickly once they figure out they have no other options, and that the best thing even from a totally selfish perspective is to keep playing and keep performing at a high level. Bell was a special kind of stupid - unprecedented in the history of a league that has more than its share of idiots - and I doubt we'll see that again. It's worth noting that the team was willing to bring him back after quitting on his team for much longer, going no-comm for much longer, and having a history of other problems.
I also think trading him sets a terrible precedent. You want to be off the team, just throw one temper tantrum that fits certain parameters, and get exactly what you want. The player being in the drivers seat because he knows we'll stick to some football-as-religion tradition where skipping practice or questioning the team is blasphemy, because "rah-rah teamwork, and togetherness, and tradition and life lessons, and FOOTBALL woof woof woof!"
I mean, that shit works in high school, where you need the team more than it needs you, and the team has a monopoly because you are only allowed to play in one place. In grown-man football with grown-man problems, you need to take an approach that works with grown men. The team still has ALL the leverage here unless we decide to give it all to AB voluntarily. Make that clear and he will come around once he starts to understand it. Otherwise it's just shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason. It's completely avoidable.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...led-by-broncos
I know that many Steeler fans believe AB is a lock for a 1st rounder and a player, but this article seems to suggest he may be worth less, or more depending on how you look at draft picks.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
It will be a joke if this team can't get a 1st. Amari Cooper got netted a 1st last year, when the Vikings got a 1st for Moss in 05, he wasn't nearly as productive his last year in Minnesota as AB was this year
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
If it’s not a first+...you don’t trade him. Anything less and the Steelers will have gotten ass-fucked...to put it mildly.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
If he gets traded I want a pick and a player. Doesn’t have to be a 1st depending on player. I also think a 2nd AND 3rd in this year’s draft is pretty good too.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
If he gets traded I want a pick and a player. Doesn’t have to be a 1st depending on player. I also think a 2nd AND 3rd in this year’s draft is pretty good too.
Agreed
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
I am impressed with the boldness of Rooney’s statements about AB. I look forward to hearing his thoughts on other problems within the organization.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
I am impressed with the boldness of Rooney’s statements about AB. I look forward to hearing his thoughts on other problems within the organization.
according to Emanuel Sanders .... ArtII doesn't say a lot but when he talks he means it
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
He didn’t really say anything that we already didn’t know and he was just about a scripture as AB has been in his comments.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
He did mention doors remain open, and exploring all options. How specific do you want? :coffee:
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Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
He did mention doors remain open, and exploring all options. How specific do you want? :coffee:
I wouldn’t expect anything to be specific at this stage. I’d expect it to be extremely vague. But when Sanders says when ARJII speaks he means it, he didn’t really say anything of substance...we all knew that’s what they would say.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Yes, I would rather pay a disgruntled player $17 million and get Pro Bowl production, and have the best 1-2 receiving punch in the league, than have ... Juju and question marks. Trading him is basically declaring "Our championship window is over, we're starting a rebuild that will take years." (Although you could make a case that we already said the same thing by keeping Butler and expanding his responsibilities.)
Most disgruntled players tend to become gruntled again very quickly once they figure out they have no other options, and that the best thing even from a totally selfish perspective is to keep playing and keep performing at a high level. Bell was a special kind of stupid - unprecedented in the history of a league that has more than its share of idiots - and I doubt we'll see that again. It's worth noting that the team was willing to bring him back after quitting on his team for much longer, going no-comm for much longer, and having a history of other problems.
I also think trading him sets a terrible precedent. You want to be off the team, just throw one temper tantrum that fits certain parameters, and get exactly what you want. The player being in the drivers seat because he knows we'll stick to some football-as-religion tradition where skipping practice or questioning the team is blasphemy, because "rah-rah teamwork, and togetherness, and tradition and life lessons, and FOOTBALL woof woof woof!"
I mean, that shit works in high school, where you need the team more than it needs you, and the team has a monopoly because you are only allowed to play in one place. In grown-man football with grown-man problems, you need to take an approach that works with grown men. The team still has ALL the leverage here unless we decide to give it all to AB voluntarily. Make that clear and he will come around once he starts to understand it. Otherwise it's just shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason. It's completely avoidable.
I could not agree with this more. Actually I could agree a little more but I won’t!
I think the Bell situation doesn’t compare because Bell had the option of sitting out a year and earning free agency.
Brown has no options. None. Well, except for the ones he won’t actually choose. Will he retire and kiss everything he lives for (you know, other than his kids and crap like that) goodbye? Hell no! AB tried holding out once. It almost lasted through half an entire Sunday!
Now maybe it’s just me and the fact that I quit all my meds cold turkey, but...
You’re talking about maybe the best west receiver in the HISTORY of wide receiver-dom. And I’ll have you know it’s not because he’s more physically gifted than anyone else. And it sure as hell ain’t because he’s mentally gifted either. He’s out of his mother freakin’ mind, but in a really good at football way. And YES, you DO have to make allowances for that. Or at least I do. Because I care about ending this stupid streak of not winning Super Bowls!
I wish Tomlin actually had the guts to say, “AB? You mean the same AB who is better at football than you are everything you, or anyone you know, is at anything? The man is totally batshit crazy. No argument here. But remember the part where he’s better at football than I am At Tomlinisms? My job is to win Super Bowls. And I’ve succeeded at my job exactly once! Never if we’re talking about with my own players! Wouldn’t it be really cool if the standard were really the standard rather than some players being better than others? You bet! But I for one, am getting a little tired of not winning Super Bowls around here, so I’m just gonna go ahead and not trade the best player on my team, while the second beat player on my team can still pick up a football and throw his team mates under proverbial busses and so forth. I tried firing Todd Haley like everyone told me was all it takes to winning a Super Bowl, and it turns out everyone lied! You’re all a bunch of lying liars who lie! This time last year I had three killer B’s plus a bye week! So that’s like 4 killer B’s if you think about it, and I couldn’t even win a home playoff game against an opponent that I totally looked past, and now you’re telling me to make a go of it with just one solitary B??? No thank you very much. And no, Butler DOES not count as a killer B! I looked it up! And another thing... can everyone please STFU about drama??? You dick-pipes don’t give a good god damn about anything other than not losing Super Bowls and firing Haleys, so shut your pipe holes! All of you! If you care about equality and fairness then then go watch girls JV water checkers! That league is all about equality and so forth. You know why Bill Purcell never got rid of Lawrence Taylor? Because fuck you, that’s why! Consider this mic dropped!”
But I’m sure I’m not the first or last person to write that exact speech for him. And the more I think about it the more Tomlin deserves to be fired for benching AB for the last game of the season.
What if we’d lost that game (which we almost did) and what if the Ravens had lost too (which they totally would have if we’d lost, because that’s how much the football gods hate me)?
This thread would be non existent, but the “Fire Tomlin” thread would be at page 97 and a half right now.
Btw, I say Tomlin “deserves” to be fired, but not “should be” fired. Why? Because firing Tomlin increases our chances of not losing the super bowl next year almost as much as trading AB does.
The NFL is NOT about “deserve” it’s about entertaining me! That’s right, just me! You know why? Because I have an opinion AND an internet!
Just fire Tyrel Austin already and all of our problems are solved!
And I’m not reading any of that back for typos or common sense!
Did I mention the part about quitting all my meds?
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
The Vikings traded Moss... and got crap in return.
The Cowboys won three Super Bowls... because they traded Hershel Walker.
SUMMATION:
It’s not just the picks, but who you acquire with those picks.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teegre
The Vikings traded Moss... and got crap in return.
The Cowboys won three Super Bowls... because they traded Hershel Walker.
SUMMATION:
It’s not just the picks, but who you acquire with those picks.
Keep in mind Tomlin is not smart enough like Jimmy Johnson to pull off a HW trade. Ps. love the ESPN 30/30 EP about that trade.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
I am impressed with the boldness of Rooney’s statements about AB. I look forward to hearing his thoughts on other problems within the organization.
I honestly think he's sick of the bullshit like most of the fans. At this point I'm willing to endure a few losing seasons and getting on the right track as far as building a winning culture in Pittsburgh rather than deal with the one and done underachieving crap we've dealt with for the past near decade.
We right now have a leaderless team with no heart at all. Talented? Definitely. But give me players who are serious about winning a championship that won't stab their teammates in the back for their own personal gain (I'm looking at you Bell and AB).
Are we a better team without AB right now? Definitely NOT. But what kind of message are we sending to the team if we're okaying this type of behavior? Quitting on your team is not acceptable in any form. I don't care if he was the second coming of Jerry Rice (even though he might well be it talent wise), no one player is bigger than the team. There's a reason why teams with Terell Owens tended to be drama filled and imploded often when times got rough. Sadly, AB is turning out to be this kind of problem.
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Re: Art Rooney II Says It’s ‘Hard To Envision’ Antonio Brown Being On Team Come Training Camp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
Keep in mind Tomlin is not smart enough like Jimmy Johnson to pull off a HW trade. Ps. love the ESPN 30/30 EP about that trade.
I'm sure Tomlin will have some input, but Colbert is the guy that will be handling and signing off on all trades. Rooney may force him to take less than he really wants if they decide they want Brown gone right now, but Colbert will be the one negotiating all the deals and ultimately making the trade if it gets to that point and ownership Okays the deal.
