What do you think? Is it finally the year Danny Smith is gone? I figure everyone gets a Ben was hurt free pass. They shouldn't but they will
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What do you think? Is it finally the year Danny Smith is gone? I figure everyone gets a Ben was hurt free pass. They shouldn't but they will
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O line coach...
I think they add a QB coach if nothing more than to have an in house successor to the OC position, which will be given one more year to perform.
Would be nice to have a fresh set of eyes looking at the offense and not having a QB coach with two young QBs as backups going into the past two seasons was inexplicable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
But Randy stays as OC until Ben leaves
Let Fichtner stay with Ben. Bring in Hue Jackson as OC for the rest of the squad.
With the upcoming 2020 Steelers Hard Knocks appearance, Hue Jackson a must hire after his triumphant performance with the Browns in 2018 Hard KnocksQuote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Aside from his stint as Brown’s HC Jackson has had a lot of success as an OC, in the AFCNorth, and with young QBs. His time with the Browns was terrible but shouldn’t define his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaDan
Whose time with the Browns wasn't terrible??Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Add a QB and WR coach.
I can live with the rest of the staff(I've accepted that Fichtner isn't going anywhere), Butler is still the DC but going back to coaching the OLB's seem to have worked, and it's clear Tomlin has been running the defense. It's just now the defense has legit talent. Bud broke out, they added athleticism at ILB, Minkah replaced Sean Davis which solved the "miscommunication" issues.
Sarrett is fine as the OL coach Imo, the issue is the QB play(QB's have to able to pick up where the blitzes are coming from, change blocking assignments, hit the quick reads. MR and Duck were too inexperience) and the scheme(Fichtner).
Every week Alex Kozora from SD does a sack breakdown that assigns blame for sacks, here is one of them vs the Jets: https://steelersdepot.com/2019/12/sa...ers-vs-jets-2/
A piece from the article (click the link so Kozora can get 'clicks' for the great article)
11.5 Sacks were on the QB's and scheme.....Quote:
Sack Breakdown (Season)
Devlin Hodges: 6.5
Matt Feiler: 4.5
Mason Rudolph: 3
Coverage/Defensive Scheme: 3
Alejandro Villanueva: 2.5
Ramon Foster: 2.5
Randy Fichtner: 2
David DeCastro: 1.5
Wide Receivers: 1.5
Chukwuma Okorafor: 1
Mike Tomlin: 0.5
Maurkice Pouncey: 0.5
BJ Finney: 0.5
I thought his failure in Oakland defined his career......but the Browns were dumb enough to hire him. I say no to HueQuote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
While I think a QB coach absolutely couldn't hurt; it won't be a magic bullet either. They say the time to fix your golf swing is not while you are playing a round. What do I mean by that? When Rudolph's footwork falls apart or Hodges starts floating INTs to the defense, there isn't much a coach (of any kind or caliber) can do during the game to get that fixed. That is on the player. Now the week prior or after a game and in the off-season...sure.
Maybe I am out to lunch. But there seems to be a certain logic around these parts that goes something like this:
1. Team loses game(s) due to EVENTS A and B (say poor blitz pick-up and inability to convert 3rd downs).
2. Events A and B are all on the coaching staff and represent failures in planning and instruction.
3. Hiring "better" or "different" coaches will resolve Events A and B and prevent their recurrence.
I am not sure that it is really that simple. It essentially removes the players from the equation and reduces the game down to something along the lines of a computer simulation where all the pieces are told how to move in a predetermined manner.
Someone mentioned how they are frustrated with the offense constantly throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down. I think we all are. This year it was about 2 yards short on average. 2018 it was less than one yard short. 2016 and 2017 it was past the sticks between a half and full yard on average. So if we figure the offense is roughly the same from Haley to Fichtner (just sped up and using shorter throws) we can see a trend with Roethlisberger of throwing at or near the sticks on third downs. Without competent, or even league average, QB play -- well short. An OC can not force a guy to throw the ball. He can not throw it for him. Gotta figure the same throws that Roethlisberger was making/attempting still exist on the field, but Captains Checkdown and Never Over the Middle simply avoided them. The defense knew that they wouldn't or couldn't challenge their coverages and forced everything underneath and short. If a quarterback is either physically or mentally incapable of getting over the hurdle of aggressively challenging NFL coverages, then I am not sure that there is much a coach of any caliber or type can accomplish.
Again, this is not a defense of Fichtner or anyone else. I strongly agree that there needs to be a QB coach and an overall expansion of the coaching staff. Too many stale and repeated ideas. I would like to see a number of position coaches that skew very young hired from the college ranks and used to inject a new viewpoint to the team. I think they need a QB coach, WR coach, another defensive assistant to groom as a "DC in waiting", and I think that the Ravens have demonstrated that a few number crunching nerds can be useful to a team.
But I do strongly counter the idea that it was a lack of coaches or coaching that prevented this team from having more success in 2019. It was a lack of talent at key spots, QB in particular that totally hamstrung both the team and any coaching efforts.
Maybe Matt Feiler just isn't that good of a tackle? It was just a season ago that the team was publicly talking about how his limitations as a pass blocker changed their schemes against specific teams. Like I have no actual idea, but that breakdown chart kinda makes it look like there was a massive issue at the QB position, something going on at RT, and intermittent breakdowns in the rest of the system. That does not look like the systemic coaching and talent failure that this board has seemed to collectively decided has taken place across the offensive line.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndGold
When I have time I'm going to go back and look through more games to watch Feiler. It seemed like he started out well this season but struggled closer to the end. Either way, a move to left guard is likely for Feiler Imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Let us know what you find out. I also think he moves to LG as well. Banner goes to RT. Maybe we see the return of that power run to the right side with Banner and a pulling guard leading the way? Was a staple when Gilbert was here and healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndGold
A healthy Gilbert was missed. Sucks he no longer could stay healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I still don't understand Tomlin's loyalty to his assistants - and I wish they all would go.
1) Danny Smith - has two jobs: Call creative, disciplined special teams plays and chew bubble gum. And he's all out of creativity. Steelers' special teams (outside of Boswell's dip in the fountain of youth) has been the laughing stock of the league for years now. I can't watch a kickoff or punt without expecting to see a 'holding' or 'illegal block in the back' by the kicking team on every. single. play. Does anyone really doubt Danny Smith will still be hammering away on a massive wad of bubble gum on the sidelines next September?
2) Corky Fichtner: Clearly was in over his head in trying to call game plans that protected the inexperience of several of the starters. He was made to look good by having a 15-year HOF quarterback audibling out of bad formations at the LOS. I can't tell you how many times I was screaming at the TV as Fichtner was calling runs behind the RG into 10-man fronts for no gain. Over and over again. Memo to the OC: It's okay to have your rookie QBs yell 'Alert! Alert!' at the LOS and check into a play-action to the TE running a quick slant that would but him immediately behind 10 guys on defense with the box fully stacked. I don't think I saw that once. Again, I'm sure he'll be back under the headset with a dazed, 20-watt stare, as Ben really calls the offense and makes him look 10 times smarter than he really is.
3) Keith Butler: This one's a little tougher. Butler went from a DC that gave up 45 points to Blake Friggin' Bortles only two years ago to the DC that led the league or was near the top in almost all statistical categories. Some of this is improved roster: Bush, MFF, Watt becoming a human wrecking ball, Dupree living up to first-round billing, Steven Nelson being a quiet surprise, etc. However, it's not all just talent. The core of the unit hasn't changed drastically, but what did change was Tomlin taking over most of the defensive play calls and Butler going back to being more of the OLB coach. The OLBs went nuts this year, and all of a sudden the secondary became respectible.
What does this all mean? I think it clearly showed that Tomlin is a better X's / O's coach than I thought he was. Still a questionable game manager, but if that D really had Tomlin's fingerprints on it more than Butler, then ... holy shit, dude can actually coach. It also means that Tomlin was Butler's crutch in as much as Ben was Fichtner's crutch. Without that 'assistance', both coaches just don't seem up to the task. And Danny Smith? Somebody needs to encourage him to go play in traffic. The ghost of Rich Kotite could assemble a more disciplined, effective special teams crew.
:crossed:
of course what this probably means is Tomlin assumes Teryl Austin will get a better offer somewhere else and leave
^This. The fall-off from Darrell Drake to Ray Sherman was precipitous. This one should be a relatively easy fix in the off-season. Sherman was available when all of a sudden they had to scramble in training camp for a new WR coach. Now, with a full off-season behind them, they can really beat the bushes and find someone competent to replace the loss of Drake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
They have a QB coach that no one knew they had and fichtner likes. Which means he probably sucks.
https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/20...19-season.html
Not to derail the thread, but another thought that convinces me that Tomlin isn't nor shouldn't be going anywhere: Look at how absolutely bad the coaches who just got fired are, and how completely lackluster their replacements or likely replacements are. My gawd the coaching cupboard is bare:
Fired:
Ron Rivera
Freddie Kitchens
Jay Gruden
Pat Shurmer
(most likely) Jason Garrett
Hired or rumored:
Ron Rivera for 5 years in Washington (HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!)
Josh McDaniels (Does anyone not remember how disasterous his stint in Denver was?)
Mike McCarthy (who Aaron Rodgers single-handedly ran out of GB)
Eric Bieniemy / Brian Daboll / 'Baby Huey' Byron Leftwich - all coordinators with 2 or less years of OC experience
Don Martindale - one year DC experience
Lincoln Riley / Urban Meyer - excellent college coaches who are hoping that the NFL owners will forget about how the last experiment with 'excellent college coaches' like Steve Spurrier and Kick Saban turned out.
I can't think of one person in the NFL who's currently looking for a job that I'd rather have coaching than Tomlin at the moment. Never thought I'd have said that a year ago, but there it is. This current crop of coaches is just bad. Historically bad.
As OC???Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Treat them like Congress and throw the bums out!
The guy is a history grad from Duke that I can find no evidence of ever playing football. He would have zero idea of QB mechanics or coaching it up. He looks like he manages stats and video at QB meeting room and gets coffee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoes
I can look at his picture and tell he's never played football.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
:lol:
Try a quick search on a few topics about Hue Jackson and let me know if you still would want him at a Steeler coach. The topic are:Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
-Hue Jackson blames Raiders players for loss to Chargers and missing playoffs
-Hue Jackson blames Browns for not drafting Wentz, Desean Watson, Mahomes. (for bonus search, Michael Silver report contradicts Jacksons claim- Hue wanted Malik Hooker)
-Hue Jackson tells owner Jimmy Haslam to "get the Fu@k out of my office"
- Baker Mayfield comments on Hue Jackson
-Hue Jackson great QB's developed (list includes Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Joe Flacco, Joey Harrington...)
-Hue Jackson trades 1st and 2nd round picks for Carson Palmer.
You may still like him for OC, but I see the historical evidence pointing to a guy that screws up, blames others (in spectacular fashion I might add) for his mistakes, avoids taking responsibility for his actions and uses revisionist history to mask his faults.
In short, I think he is a douchebag that should never set foot in a Steelers organization.
Yup, the Steelers have a bunch of young QB's with mechanics and footwork issues from playing in no huddle, pistol or read option systems and a position coach that could not recognize those issues or relate them to how it can improve accuracy, velocity, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
They then follow it up with a guy that played O line at Kent State, who we would think learned from coaching behind a hall of fame O lineman, but the lack of finishing of blocks, playing to the whistle or eroding of mechanics/technique seem to indicate otherwise.
Go get some good coaches Mike!
He does have a point with the Browns not drafting Wentz, Watson, or Mahomes though. The Browns would be a serious problem if they drafted Mahomes especially, though maybe even Cleveland would be enough of a dumpster fire to destroy whatever career Mahomes would have had with them lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
I think the idea of getting some good coaches is one that everyone endorses. Where to find them is the thing. I will throw out that extensive NFL experience either playing or coaching is not always required.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
What if Sarrett is the next Dante Scarnecchia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Scarnecchia -- I totally doubt it but just because he played only at Kent State doesn't mean he fundamentally isn't qualified to coach the position at a high level.
Matt Nagy was recently anointed a "Qb whisperer" a few years back and he doesn't exactly have a deep NFL record -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Nagy
Do I think that Sarrett and Skippy the Duke Intern QB video guy are great at their jobs? Most likely not. Do I think that their lack of NFL experience by definition means they won't be good coaches? Also no.
Read this article. You will see that Jackson pre draft says #2 was too high to take Wentz, but after he was fired from the Browns, he blames the browns for trading out of the #2 spot and not getting Wentz. Hue Jackson is an a$$clown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Goodell
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...wentz-at-no-2/
Quote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...j8z_bigger.jpg Michael SilverVerified account@MikeSilverFollow Follow@MikeSilver
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I talked to Hue Jackson about Wentz many, many times pre-draft. Jackson never disparaged his ability. Thought 2 was too high to take him.
For me the biggest 2019 coaching indictment is whoever decided to just stick with Switzer at anything. The switch to DJ and White was an instant upgrade to both return units. This type of stubbornness and refusal to "churn" the bottom of the roster has been a constant source of frustration for me over the Tomlin era. This year injuries forced them to do it and they may have found solid contributors in Whyte (sp?) and Cain and may have identified returners moving forward.
Imagine if they had been making moves across the bottom 3 players on the roster constantly over the past 4 years? Might there be better marginal depth at positions like safety, WR, and TE?
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed. If I owned an NFL team I wouldn't pay Hue Jackson with some other owner's money.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Part of being a good coach is being able to command the attention and respect of the guys you are coaching. Another is being able to relate the "unknown" of a position or situation to the "known" of what the player already understands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Its not a prerequisite to have played football or pro football in order to be a good coach. I do think it helps to establish credibility and respect of your knowledge if you actually did what you are coaching.
Would I want to be lead into battle by a Sgt. that has read a lot about military strategy and tactics, but never actually been in battle before? What personal experience could that leader offer that would benefit, which wasn't put in a text book? I think some current players may look at their position coaches in the same manner.
This is a pretty funny post. I’m not married to the plan of hiring Hue as OC but the thread specifically reads “Staff Upgrades”. Like the guy or not Hue Jackson would be an upgrade as OC, IMO. At least I propose a name that may actually be obtainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Hue actually had a lot of success as the OC at several stops btw. Never made it as a HC, not even close.
If you ever met Jimmy Haslam in person you would probably tell him to get the “F” out of your office too. Just saying.
OK, we can maybe agree that Jackson would be an upgrade, but IMO that is like my uncle selling his AMC Pacer and getting a Ford Pinto that caught fire on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
I'm saying that if you want to get to where you are going, you put good people with the right attitude and skills on the bus with you. IMO, Jackson isn't that guy and isn't worth having in the building.
I'll keep your advise in mind if I ever meet Jimmy Haslam
In reference to McDaniels in denver, the issue was he was HC and GM, the GM addition put him in over his head and the dumpster fire ensued. Had he had a competent GM he probably would have probably been ok as just a HC.
All very true. The next time I coach football would be the first time, so admittedly I got no idea. But I think a good coach is a good coach. Different sport, but some of the best baseball managers never got out of the minors.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
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We can trade Fichtner to the pats for McDaniels. I'm sure Bill would be all over that. :chuckle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorhead
Remember in Super Bowl XL where Bettis tells FWP at halftime to start the run looking wide, then stick his foot and get up in the hole quick? Bettis explains how to stretch out the defenders to the sideline and then hit the hole fast so the OLB and DE might not be able to get back inside to him. That is referred to as "Coaching the Why".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Sometimes can be difficult for a guy like Matt Symmes to tell Mason Rudolph to stay on the balls of his feet and move them towards his receivers as he goes thru his progressions, because it will have a solid throwing platform...when he has never done that himself, let alone with Aaron Donald rushing the A gap between Foster and Pouncey. Symmes can only coach the why from what he has read or seen David Cutcliffe coach QB's.
That may not be as convincing as Tom Clements, Alex Van Pelt, Jon Kitna or Mike Shula coaching the QB on skills. Sure there are guys that never played QB who are coaching NFL QB's and guys that haven't played in the NFL, but they generally played the game and have a solid coaching resume. the Ravens QB coach is a former WR, but coached with Andy Reid, Pat Shurmur and Doug Pedersen before getting this gig.
Personal opinions aside where do you see Pinto fire shortcomings as an OC? Was it the Bobby Petrino Falcons? Because every other OC stop he did better than the guy before him and coached some pretty good offenses in Cincy, Baltimore, and Oakland. He was OC under Spurrier but what does that really even mean with Spurrier? I will be fine once Ben returns and basically starts calling his own plays anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
ST coordinators? Anyone?
I’d like to first and foremost seas Smith gone. After that, I’d like to see a QB Coach and a WR Coach added to the roster. Obviously, Smith’s replacement as well.