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What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Was just reading that Josh Rosen is now predicted to slide because "reasons"? I don't really get it. NYG is going to take a RB to re-focus their offense off of their aging and not really that good 37 year old QB - sounds like a solid plan fellas!
Anyway, what prospect starts sliding on draft day and what would you give up to go get them? It is your hypothetical. Do it however you like.
Any of these guys make it out of the top 5-10 and I'm on the phone if I'm Colbert:
Darnold
Rosen
Derwin James
Fitzpatrick
Marcus Davenport
I would be willing to give up a first this year and a first next year to make it happen for anyone on that list. Although, I confess that Davenport is really really borderline there. Sometimes I watch him and I think "Demarcus Ware" or "Von Miller" and I dream of him and TJ Watt just taking over games. Other times I look at him and "Is he that good? Maybe not..."
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Roquan Smith
Tremaine Edmunds
Derwin James
I would be willing to give up 1st round picks this and next year for those three players.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
I would much rather give up our 1st for multiple 2nd/3rd round picks, but I'll play just the same.
If Quentin Nelson or Derwin James dropped to the mid-teens I would be willing to trade up. Whatever the cost.
If Bradley Chubb dropped to the teens I would be willing to give up a 1st and 3rd this year.
I don't know that I trust any of the QBs enough to feel good about the price of trading up.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
I am not a fan of Marcus Davenport. He looked lost (underperformed) at the Senior Bowl.
Yep, Rosen is gonna slip. Because, he asked his coach, “Why?” This sucks, because you KNOW that the Taperiots will snag him. Initially, they were rumored to be enamored with him. Then, that rumor ebbed... but, I think it’s Belichick not wanting to play his hand (i.e. I expect the Taperiots to trade up for Rosen).
Back to the Steelers...
I’d definitely trade up for Rosen. If somehow teams let Quenton Nelson get out of the top 10, they’re crazy. Similarly, if Roquan Smith slides out of the top 12.
28 = 660 points
60 = 300 points
92 = 130 points
Next year’s R1 is equivalent to this year’s R2 = 300
Trading our R3 gets us to 22.
Trading our R2 gets us to 17.
Trading our R2 & R3 gets us to 14.
Trading our R2 & R3 AND next year’s R1 gets us to 8.
Now, what would I give up for each of them? Hmmm...
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
I trade up for no one. They have 3 picks in the first 4 rounds, and more needs than that. Looking at how the board will shake out, there should be a solid player at 28, plus I do not like the idea of trading a 1st next year
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
The best course of action is likely to trade down so they at least have 4 picks in the first 4 rounds
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
st33lersguy
The best course of action is likely to trade down so they at least have 4 picks in the first 4 rounds
that's my favorite scenario also, I would love to trade down to the top of the 2nd round and pick up at least the 4th round pick we don't currently have.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Nobody WANTS to trade up this draft. The thread asks, BUT WHAT IF.......
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
even in the hypothetical I can not trade up with good conscience , we simply have needs that will be hard to fill with the picks we have ...
that said even if we didn't we have an aging QB who could hang them up at a moments notice ...
would really suck to trade up and grab a high quality defensive prospect in any deal that offers next years selections and Ben hang them up at the end of this year and come next year you have no ammunition to go get a guy and still have unfilled holes that you may have been able to fill this year ....
Great teams are made up with quality pieces at every spot and you can not get those pieces by shipping away picks looking for 1 star
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
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Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
even in the hypothetical I can not trade up with good conscience , we simply have needs that will be hard to fill with the picks we have ...
that said even if we didn't we have an aging QB who could hang them up at a moments notice ...
Agreed, to a point. If we could trade up and get Ben's replacement, then I'd have no problem pulling the trigger for that. The Steelers will almost never pick in the top fifteen. So, when someone falls far enough that the Steelers can move up and get a franchise QB, they have to pull the trigger and do it. That said, I'd fight to keep our second round pick this year because we need to fill the LB position more than anything else. We solidified the DBs enough to risk not drafting one in the high rounds, but that just doesn't hold true for LB.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Not sure I agree that you don't need a "star". I would have no problem having a short draft year in order to get the next franchise QB or a Troy Polamalu level defender. While many players on that last great Steelers defense were pretty darn good - Troy P and his unique "star" level talents made it work.
Look at Seattle's D - that whole thing worked because of Chancellor and Thomas. Ravens almost 2 decades ago, it all worked because of Reed and Lewis.
Of course you need talent and playmaking at multiple positions, but many many SB winning defenses have that "guy" you build the whole thing around. It was supposed to be Shazier for this version of the Steelers D. Now they don't have one. Not saying I would get desperate and just throw things away, but Derwin James could change a defense...
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
Not sure I agree that you don't need a "star". I would have no problem having a short draft year in order to get the next franchise QB or a Troy Polamalu level defender. While many players on that last great Steelers defense were pretty darn good - Troy P and his unique "star" level talents made it work.
Look at Seattle's D - that whole thing worked because of Chancellor and Thomas. Ravens almost 2 decades ago, it all worked because of Reed and Lewis.
Of course you need talent and playmaking at multiple positions, but many many SB winning defenses have that "guy" you build the whole thing around. It was supposed to be Shazier for this version of the Steelers D. Now they don't have one. Not saying I would get desperate and just throw things away, but Derwin James could change a defense...
stars cost way more money in the long term .....
when you have that guy or two that commands top of the market pricing is short hands you on the rest of your roster
lets say a star is rating of 4
quality starter a 3
fringe starter a 2
I would rather have 11 guys who I rank 3 than 2 guys rated a 4 and then a few 3's and filling the rest with 2's
in this era where you have your QB taking 20-30 million of your cap , a RB who now wants 17 million WRs making 17 million a year where do you personally draw the line .... everyone will differ but it is worth thinking about
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
stars cost way more money in the long term .....
when you have that guy or two that commands top of the market pricing is short hands you on the rest of your roster
lets say a star is rating of 4
quality starter a 3
fringe starter a 2
I would rather have 11 guys who I rank 3 than 2 guys rated a 4 and then a few 3's and filling the rest with 2's
in this era where you have your QB taking 20-30 million of your cap , a RB who now wants 17 million WRs making 17 million a year where do you personally draw the line .... everyone will differ but it is worth thinking about
Every team has the same cap to equal things out. You must have those 2-5 players that every team wants so they get paid the lion's share. Just modern NFL. QB, RB, WR, LT, MLB, OLB, DL, CB, Safety, where do you put your money? If you knew beyond a doubt that the next Troy or Ben or Mean Joe were in this draft, what would you give up right now to make sure you get him?
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
stars cost way more money in the long term .....
when you have that guy or two that commands top of the market pricing is short hands you on the rest of your roster
lets say a star is rating of 4
quality starter a 3
fringe starter a 2
I would rather have 11 guys who I rank 3 than 2 guys rated a 4 and then a few 3's and filling the rest with 2's
in this era where you have your QB taking 20-30 million of your cap , a RB who now wants 17 million WRs making 17 million a year where do you personally draw the line .... everyone will differ but it is worth thinking about
I'll take a roster heavy with 4's at the right positions and take my chances.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
Every team has the same cap to equal things out. You must have those 2-5 players that every team wants so they get paid the lion's share. Just modern NFL. QB, RB, WR, LT, MLB, OLB, DL, CB, Safety, where do you put your money? If you knew beyond a doubt that the next Troy or Ben or Mean Joe were in this draft, what would you give up right now to make sure you get him?
the bold is the problem , we just do not know ... seen way to many can not miss prospects end up duds ...I am always against moving up because of cost and the uncertainty of what that is actually going to get you , what seems like and what is are often two completely different things , the draft is a large gamble as is compounding that and doubling down IMO is never a wise move
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
I'd trade the whole draft for Barkley and then he and Tomlin can pose in wedding attire.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
I'd trade the whole draft for Barkley and then he and Tomlin can pose in wedding attire.
that would be a sight !
I love what Barkley can do , that said I remember being enamored with this kid back in the day
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...-carter-1.html
and sadly what it amounted to as a pro was nothing to write home about
https://www.pro-football-reference.c...C/CartKi00.htm
still can not figure out what went wrong ......
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
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Originally Posted by
Shoes
I love the Javon Rolland-Jones (OLB, Arkansas St.) pick in R4.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
I'd trade the whole draft for Barkley and then he and Tomlin can pose in wedding attire.
I’d take that over a Round One pick of Mason Rudolph and then a draft full of needs.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
The Bengals is what went wrong.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
the bold is the problem , we just do not know ... seen way to many can not miss prospects end up duds ...I am always against moving up because of cost and the uncertainty of what that is actually going to get you , what seems like and what is are often two completely different things , the draft is a large gamble as is compounding that and doubling down IMO is never a wise move
I think you are either missing the spirit of the thread or are being difficult on purpose. Either way, that's cool if you don't want to play along. Just move on.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
The Bengals is what went wrong.
IIRC he tore his ACL in preseason his rookie year and was never the same. Unless you guys already knew that and it was sarcasm, then I apologise for being dense.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
I think you are either missing the spirit of the thread or are being difficult on purpose. Either way, that's cool if you don't want to play along. Just move on.
didn't miss the spirit of the thread , nor am I being difficult on purpose ... just sharing my point of view
thought that's what discussion forums where for .
I will decide when to move on thank you for your concern
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
didn't miss the spirit of the thread , nor am I being difficult on purpose ... just sharing my point of view
thought that's what discussion forums where for .
I will decide when to move on thank you for your concern
Huh, meant to put 'moving on'. Oh well.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
Huh, meant to put 'moving on'. Oh well.
its all good
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
FWIW with rookies playing earlier and better plus being on cheap deals for 3-5 years, I’m getting as many “star” draft picks as possible.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
FWIW with rookies playing earlier and better plus being on cheap deals for 3-5 years, I’m getting as many “star” draft picks as possible.
point being trading up for that 1 potential star is costing you 2-3 maybe 4 starter quality players whom could be very very good ...
I prefer 3 or 4 rolls of the dice vs just 1
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
You also need depth to win a championship, and depth is not that great on this team. Trading up will likely lead to 2 draft picks in the first 4 rounds, that is not good for a team without great depth, particularly one that is more reliant on the draft than free agency
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
its all good
I'll decide when it's good. LOL
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
I'll decide when it's good. LOL
OMG lmao
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
ROFLMFAO + SMH + BTWMF + DLNBYJGS + COMD......and so on
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
I can see the benefit for trading up, as well as staying put, and also for trading down.
TRADING UP:
If you move up correctly, you get yourself a Troy Polamalu. If you trade up incorrectly, you end up with a bust AND fewer draft picks. Most recently, the Texans and Chiefs successfully did this, for Watson and Mahomes.
TRADING DOWN:
Moneyball. It works... but, you have to be patient. The Browns are currently doing this. If you are in "win now", this is not as prudent of a tactic.
STAYING PUT:
It is safe. You have less risk, but less reward. Likewise, it is a quicker turnaround than Moneyball, but not as quick as striking gold with a "HOFer".
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teegre
I can see the benefit for trading up, as well as staying put, and also for trading down.
TRADING UP:
If you move up correctly, you get yourself a Troy Polamalu. If you trade up incorrectly, you end up with a bust AND fewer draft picks. Most recently, the Texans and Chiefs successfully did this, for Watson and Mahomes.
TRADING DOWN:
Moneyball. It works... but, you have to be patient. The Browns are currently doing this. If you are in "win now", this is not as prudent of a tactic.
STAYING PUT:
It is safe. You have less risk, but less reward. Likewise, it is a quicker turnaround than Moneyball, but not as quick as striking gold with a "HOFer".
Nailed it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teegre
I can see the benefit for trading up, as well as staying put, and also for trading down.
TRADING UP:
If you move up correctly, you get yourself a Troy Polamalu. If you trade up incorrectly, you end up with a bust AND fewer draft picks. Most recently, the Texans and Chiefs successfully did this, for Watson and Mahomes.
TRADING DOWN:
Moneyball. It works... but, you have to be patient. The Browns are currently doing this. If you are in "win now", this is not as prudent of a tactic.
STAYING PUT:
It is safe. You have less risk, but less reward. Likewise, it is a quicker turnaround than Moneyball, but not as quick as striking gold with a "HOFer".
still depends how you look at it ... had we traded up in the past even to move a few spots likely could have cost us Antonio Brown , or to a lessor degree Bryant ... giving away picks in any round can be costly just look back through history at how many really good player we took middle rounds and beyond and in some of these scenarios we are giving up multiple early selections in back to back years ....all to roll the dice on 1 player who could as easily not pan out as pan out .... in another thread I posted the QBs drafted from 2000 to 2015 1st round QBs odds are against you getting a diamond and more than likely you end up with a lump of coal .... doubling / tripling down ( or more ) one 1 player is not a prudent method of acquiring a dynasty esp when you build through the draft and only dabble in the FA pool with middle of the road or less type players for the most part ...
you take a significant hit to your teams depth and as was stated earlier we are already pretty thin in a few key areas
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
still depends how you look at it ... had we traded up in the past even to move a few spots likely could have cost us Antonio Brown , or to a lessor degree Bryant ... giving away picks in any round can be costly just look back through history at how many really good player we took middle rounds and beyond and in some of these scenarios we are giving up multiple early selections in back to back years ....all to roll the dice on 1 player who could as easily not pan out as pan out .... in another thread I posted the QBs drafted from 2000 to 2015 1st round QBs odds are against you getting a diamond and more than likely you end up with a lump of coal .... doubling / tripling down ( or more ) one 1 player is not a prudent method of acquiring a dynasty esp when you build through the draft and only dabble in the FA pool with middle of the road or less type players for the most part ...
you take a significant hit to your teams depth and as was stated earlier we are already pretty thin in a few key areas
You’re right.
That said...
For every AB, there are a dozen Holbas, Freeneys, Zumwalts, and Humpals. Imagine if we had traded our R7 pick in 2015 (Gerod Hollinan) in order to move up one spot in R3. We’d have David Johnson (instead of Sammie Coates).
Of course, the flip side is that we simply could have drafted David Johnson in R2 instead of Senquez Golson.
Speaking of Golson and Coates... If we had traded the R3 pick (Coates) to move up a few spots in R1, we’d have Marcus Peters (instead of Bud Dupree). If we had traded the R2 pick (Golson), we’d have Todd Gurley.
My go to is that I would have traded the ENTIRE 2008 draft class to the Vikings for their R1 pick in 2007: Adrian Peterson. (Not only was our draft awful, that entire draft class was average at best.)
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
I'm not sure that you do it all wily nilly and make a habit out of trading up in drafts, but targeted trades for specific purposes can change the course of franchises.
What do those early to mid 2000's Steelers defenses look like without Troy Polamalu?
While these are nowhere near the same scale, the trade-ups for Kendrell Bell and Santonio Holmes had a solid positive impact on the team.
I think the reality is that it is all related to how confident a team is in its player evaluations. If a team trades up in the first round and gets a cornerstone player, no one will remember what they gave up or could have gotten.
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teegre
You’re right.
That said...
For every AB, there are a dozen Holbas, Freeneys, Zumwalts, and Humpals. Imagine if we had traded our R7 pick in 2015 (Gerod Hollinan) in order to move up one spot in R3. We’d have David Johnson (instead of Sammie Coates).
Of course, the flip side is that we simply could have drafted David Johnson in R2 instead of Senquez Golson.
Speaking of Golson and Coates... If we had traded the R3 pick (Coates) to move up a few spots in R1, we’d have Marcus Peters (instead of Bud Dupree). If we had traded the R2 pick (Golson), we’d have Todd Gurley.
My go to is that I would have traded the ENTIRE 2008 draft class to the Vikings for their R1 pick in 2007: Adrian Peterson. (Not only was our draft awful, that entire draft class was average at best.)
I get your point but we wouldn't have those players David Johnson ( I was one of his very few fans here ) would have been great but with Bell they would not have selected him ...
Peters was a known problem child coming into the draft so doubt he would have been the pick ( and he quickly wore out his welcome in KC even with great play )
Gurley see David Johnson ....
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Re: What Would You Give Up and For Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
I get your point but we wouldn't have those players David Johnson ( I was one of his very few fans here ) would have been great but with Bell they would not have selected him ...
Peters was a known problem child coming into the draft so doubt he would have been the pick ( and he quickly wore out his welcome in KC even with great play )
Gurley see David Johnson ....
True. With Bell under contract, we wouldn’t have selected those exact players. I was using them as more of an example of “we could have gotten this really good player”.
