Would you accept Mike Munchak as HC? Or would you rather them go outside the organization?
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Would you accept Mike Munchak as HC? Or would you rather them go outside the organization?
I would give him an interview, but would go shopping beyond the Pittsburgh area. I'm not a fan of Art II and wouldn't be surprised if he would try and push for Haley.
No...Munchak was terrible as HC with the titansQuote:
Originally Posted by X-Terminator
Tough one. I think I'd rather they start fresh and let the new HC hire his staff. ArtII, hands off.
Of course, if Colbert is gone as well, might as well let the new GM pick his HC. ArtII, hands off.
Ultimately? Try inevitably.
Keep everyone else, but go outside the organization. This game was the straw that broke the Camel's back.
If the Steelers miss the playoffs again this year, Tomlin is out.
If Tomlin goes, the whole coaching staff should go with him. Up to the new HC to pick and choose his guys. ArtII, hands off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
You forgot something:Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Steeler
Let the HC pick his coordinators. Art II, hands off.
No, no. I include the coordinators as the staff of the HC. ArtII, hands off.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPgh
Bring back Bill Cowher?
Please, God, no...Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
I wonder if Cowher has any interest in being a GM. Not coaching, just being GM. Ben would be our last great QB, but perhaps the rest of the team would get in shape.
Not only that, we may as well let Ben walk after his current contract is up if that were the case. Because we'd go right back to the "we don't need no stinkin' QB!" philosophy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelerette
Munchak should stay on as OL coach. Everyone else? Pack up the U-Haul. Colbert can go right along with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Steeler
I would rather them go outside the organization for both coach and GM. I wouldn't even consider Omar Khan for the latter. After that, Art II, hands off.
Why not....The drafts of the steelers were often very good under CowherQuote:
Originally Posted by Steelerette
And go back to 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust football? No thanks. I don't pine away for Cowher the way so many other fans do, like they were married to him or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
That would be like rehiring Tomlin. I never liked Cowher and I don't like Tomlin. Both of them together couldn't equal a wart on Chuck Noll's a$$.Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
As much as I'm sour on Tomlin right now, let's have the rest of the season play out. If we finish anywhere north of 7-9, he's in no real danger. Not saying that's good or bad, but rather, how it is.
Some of the trouble of letting Tomlin go is -- who really is out there to replace him?
1) Todd Haley. I don't think it would be as bad as people think, but I'm in the minority on that, plus he wouldn't be my first choice anyways.
2) Mike Munchak. Just can't see it happening.
3) Someone who gets fired after this season. Can't see it happening.
4) Rob Chudzinski. I would be on board with this one. Cleveland was drunk when they fired him.
5) Darrell Bevelle (OC Seahawks). Who was the last offensive-minded head coach the Steelers had? Bill Austin. In today's NFL, maybe it's what we need though.
Same here. I liked Cowher, but if we want to try to actually maximize the twilight of Ben's career, then we need to go in a different direction entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Terminator
Agreed. There's nothing limiting the Steelers from picking between Cowher and Tomlin. They need a fresh perspective from outside the organization.Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince'76
As tempting as that is, I have to give free reign to the coach. If he chooses to keep Munchak, great. If not, great. Art II should only sign the checks and watch the games.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Terminator
Time to clean house and that includes Colbert. Our drafting has been very poor for the last few years.
I'd go outside of the organization for the head coach and GM. Don't hire anyone just because of their ties to the Steelers or the Pittsburgh area!
Cowher's not the answer. And I liked Cowher. He was the right choice in 1992, not 2015.
Go outside the organization.
"IF" the Rooney's were foolish enough to make Haley HC, I will promptly burn my Steeler Nation membership card !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoes
It might get some laughs, go ahead and call me crazy, but I believe that if he were offered the HC job, Tony Dungy would take it.
I know, it's highly unlikely. And it wouldn't be anything more than a short term fix. 4 years max. But I'd feel a hell of a lot better about the future of the Steelers organization if Dungy came in and put his thumbprint on the team.
http://i62.tinypic.com/24ngs48.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by katmandu
:chuckle:
if /when Tomlin is done here I think you do exactly what they did in the past , you go outside the organization and find a young up and comer and take your chances ...
the problem with that is control ..... you can not overwhelm a inexperienced guy or give him to much to handle all at once
I think ( I am in the minority here ) you make many of the calls on the coaching staff in year 1 the adjustment from Pos coach to HC is great enough for a young guy ....
if things do not work out with some you then allow the HC in year 2 to make changes in the failed units or areas ....
but permit him to select his coordinators as they are the most vital to his success / failure keeping pos coaches in place makes for a smoother transition as they know the players far better than anyone else can in short order and they also know the weaknesses of the team too
I think Munch is a guy I keep ....
Lake is a guy I keep ....
Mann is a guy I keep ...
Saxon is a guy I keep ...
The NFL has changed dramatically in the past few years. With the limited time the coaching staff can spend with the players, practice time is at such a premium. Ditto operational design (game planning) and tactical execution (play calling / game management). I don't think anyone on the Steelers staff excels in any of these areas. I would look for a successful college coach who is used to getting the most out of limited time with players. If he is an innovator on either offense or defense, that would be a bonus. If not, hire an innovator as coordinator. A college coach would also be used to dealing with a new set of players virtually every year, like the NFL is with free agency and roster turnover. Not sure who this might be, but that is the direction I would go. Maybe Mark Whipple?
I like this idea better than him coming back as a coach, and I think it would be interesting who he would bring in as coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelerette
As for Manchak I agree with those who say no to him as HC but yes to him staying in his current position.
I'd try to poach Doug Whaley away from the Bills as GM. Bill Cowher has no qualifications to be a GM.
Outside the organization. I would consider keeping Munchak as OLine Coach and maybe, MAYBE Butler because of the personnel the Steelers have. Everyone else including Colbert and Khaaaaan can take a hike,
TBH if we're going to go the route of cleaning house completely and letting the new GM participate in the coaching decision...
then I want Phil Savage
I would rather have an OC or a DC from another team
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Originally Posted by fansince'76
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Originally Posted by X-Terminator
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Originally Posted by tube517
Do you guys really think that if Cowher came back (which I find highly unlikely), he'd immediately go back to the same thing he was doing 15 years ago? It's not as if he can't see, just like everyone else does, that the game has evolved in the meantime. You could say Chuck Noll or Vince Lombardi's philosophy wouldn't work today and you'd be correct, but only because you're locking them into the same exact philosophy they were using at the time, when that's what worked in the league. It wasn't their offensive schemes that made them successful, it was that they were good coaches and figured out how to win.
No, the point of that was not to compare Cowher to Lombardi or Noll, so please, don't even start.
At any rate, if you ask me, yes, Cowher II would be a big step over this shitfest. They have better options than that, though, and I'd also like to see them go in a different direction. It should probably be from outside the team, because the toilet needs to be flushed at this point. Just wouldn't be so quick to write off Cowher's ability, even though he probably is not the right guy for us.
Yes, I do, because he spent a decade-and-a-half with that style, he is the number one disciple of Martyball, and he probably still thinks that the number one way to win a game is to "physically impose your will" and shove it down other teams' throats, mainly on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
Cowher was a good coach, but that was it. And he definitely had his warts, most notably his stubbornness and inflexibility. To win in the NFL in 2014, you need a QB first and foremost, and you also need to know how to manage QBs, and he was very much lacking in that department. And like Mojouw pointed out in another thread, he was one very fortunate tackle by Roethlisberger away from being a slimmer Andy Reid.
I see that Whiz's team just got waxed again while perusing the scores of other games and have now fallen to 1-3. That's about how I'd expect Cowher to do today, as Whiz is the closest thing to a Cowher clone there is. Well, clone is probably not the best choice of words, but he is the most prominent member of Cowher's coaching tree active in the league right now. And he also has his own issues with QB management.
Careful with that Bevelle choice, he was terrible with the Vikes a few years back. Amazing how good talent up and down the roster will make a coach look like a genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelerette
I am not discounting Cowher as a good coach. Sometimes, you just need a new face.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
Also, I don't think Cowher got along with Art II so that would be something they would have to deal with and is a separate issue.