FIRE MIKE TOMLIN!!

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

That’s pretty much what every successful “coach” or “manager” does. I’ve never understood that criticism either.

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Similar criticism as calling QB a game manager IMO. To me it’s not a negative, it’s QBs job. Same as HC. Communication part of his job.

Jimmy Johnson once cut a player who fell asleep during a team meeting. Johnson was asked what he would do if Troy Aikman fell asleep during a meeting. Johnson said "I would gently nudge him awake." There's always been different treatment for players depending on how important to the team they are.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

That's good advice, but I've taken the high road here before and it hasn't worked. Also, by telling me to avoid topics that cause friction you are joining the people who are trying to tell me which topics I can and cannot post, and thus rewarding them for their attacks.

Look at all the attacks they've made on me just on this page of the thread (page 92). I would feel a lot better about what you're saying if you would have urged ALL people on this board to take the high road and change their behavior instead of putting the responsibility for doing this only on me.

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Limit your topics? You only have two.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Limit your topics? You only have two.

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I will post about however many topics I choose. Whether I have two topics, or one, or thirty, it's my choice, not yours.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

That's good advice, but I've taken the high road here before and it hasn't worked. Also, by telling me to avoid topics that cause friction you are joining the people who are trying to tell me which topics I can and cannot post, and thus rewarding them for their attacks.

Look at all the attacks they've made on me just on this page of the thread (page 92). I would feel a lot better about what you're saying if you would have urged ALL people on this board to take the high road and change their behavior instead of putting the responsibility for doing this only on me.

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Well, there isn't much more to say.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I will post about however many topics I choose. Whether I have two topics, or one, or thirty, it's my choice, not yours.

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Hahahaha!!!

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I will post about however many topics I choose. Whether I have two topics, or one, or thirty, it's my choice, not yours.

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Cool. Pick a third topic I’d bet many on here would love to see you expand your horizons.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

Cool. Pick a third topic I’d bet many on here would love to see you expand your horizons.

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:deadhorse:

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

:deadhorse:

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https://media4.giphy.com/media/3zBdD...OMrr/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

But what if the negativity is justified? Should we not take 99% of the people on this board seriously because all they said about Matt Canada was negative without any attempt to balance it?

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On that topic... no, I didn't take most people seriously. Whether they end up being justified or not is not the point. A broken clock is right twice a day. Being negative about everything means you'll be right about some things. But for me, personally, the person who can assess something and see strengths and weaknesses will always have more to offer because it shows they can at least work alongside their biases. For instance, although Canada failed to adapt to an NFL level of playcalling, I can also admit that he did come up with some innovative plays that worked well. In fact, here's an article on a few of them. Now, does that mean I think he was good, or even okay? nope. But if someone posted something like that, and then also said Here's all the problems I have with him, I pay a lot more attention to those people... and that's not just here. That's in politics, in my discipline of study, in my faith, and even when I'm looking at reviews before purchasing something.

The fact that you constantly berate Tomlin and turn every positive into a negative means I simply cannot accept your assessment of Tomlin regardless of what you say because you've shown such a severe bias that I can't trust your take. And then, when it comes over and over and over. It gets repetitive and boring. Again, this is just my opinion. And note, I don't mean this as an attack on you personally and I hope it isn't coming off that way. If it does, I apologize. That's not my intent (and I actually edited my previous post just after posting it the other day because I thought it could be taken that way).
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Let's take this a different way. I like Tomlin. I hope he remains our coach for a few more years at least. I know you don't like him. So, let's do a little intellectual exercise... In fact, I'd love to see several people join in. Post whether you like or dislike Tomlin, and then, if you like him, your three biggest concerns weaknesses. If you dislike him, post the three top things you think he does well or strengths.

For me, since I like him, here's the three things that I dislike most about him (in no particular order):

1. I think he focuses too much on athleticism over skill. It's caused him to miss on draft picks and put players on the field when they shouldn't be there.
2. Somewhat like the first, but focused on positions: I believe he values general utility over a specific set of skills too much. It's one reason why we seem to always have problems on the line. I'd rather we pick up lineman that can play a specific position lights out and suck at all other positions than picking up players that can be plugged and played across the line.
3. Game time decisions. I like his aggressiveness. But there are times, like winning the coin toss and choosing to receive in the first half (not to mention his record on challenging plays) that I shake my head.

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Originally Posted by Craic

On that topic... no, I didn't take most people seriously. Whether they end up being justified or not is not the point. A broken clock is right twice a day. Being negative about everything means you'll be right about some things. But for me, personally, the person who can assess something and see strengths and weaknesses will always have more to offer because it shows they can at least work alongside their biases. For instance, although Canada failed to adapt to an NFL level of playcalling, I can also admit that he did come up with some innovative plays that worked well. In fact, here's an article on a few of them. Now, does that mean I think he was good, or even okay? nope. But if someone posted something like that, and then also said Here's all the problems I have with him, I pay a lot more attention to those people... and that's not just here. That's in politics, in my discipline of study, in my faith, and even when I'm looking at reviews before purchasing something.

The fact that you constantly berate Tomlin and turn every positive into a negative means I simply cannot accept your assessment of Tomlin regardless of what you say because you've shown such a severe bias that I can't trust your take. And then, when it comes over and over and over. It gets repetitive and boring. Again, this is just my opinion. And note, I don't mean this as an attack on you personally and I hope it isn't coming off that way. If it does, I apologize. That's not my intent (and I actually edited my previous post just after posting it the other day because I thought it could be taken that way).
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Let's take this a different way. I like Tomlin. I hope he remains our coach for a few more years at least. I know you don't like him. So, let's do a little intellectual exercise... In fact, I'd love to see several people join in. Post whether you like or dislike Tomlin, and then, if you like him, your three biggest concerns weaknesses. If you dislike him, post the three top things you think he does well or strengths.

For me, since I like him, here's the three things that I dislike most about him (in no particular order):

1. I think he focuses too much on athleticism over skill. It's caused him to miss on draft picks and put players on the field when they shouldn't be there.
2. Somewhat like the first, but focused on positions: I believe he values general utility over a specific set of skills too much. It's one reason why we seem to always have problems on the line. I'd rather we pick up lineman that can play a specific position lights out and suck at all other positions than picking up players that can be plugged and played across the line.
3. Game time decisions. I like his aggressiveness. But there are times, like winning the coin toss and choosing to receive in the first half (not to mention his record on challenging plays) that I shake my head.

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Great post.

I like Tomlin.

What he doesn't do well:

1. I don't think he handles the challenge and not challenging plays very well. I'm not sure if that is him or the people who are informing him, Either way, it falls on MT to make sure there is a good system in place.

2. This one could be argued either way, but I do not like how he will stick with certain coaches or players for "too long". Example: Matt Canada. IMO, Canada should've been gone after his first full season as an OC. That would've been his second season with the Steelers and it was clearly apparent that he didn't know what he was doing. However, a lot of people, including myself, thought Danny SMith should have been let go long ago. Now look at him.

3. I agree with you on your first one. Dri Archer for instance. Very athletic, not a good football player. Tomlin has this theory that all these players have the talent but it's the coaching that will out them over the top and I think in many cases that is true, but I also think in many cases this is not true and while a player like Dri Archer may be fast and look like he has some of the measurables, the guy might just not be a football player and this kind runs into my #2, Tomlin will let it play out until he's overly sure the guy isn't cut out to be a football player and that will hurt the teams at times.

Tomlin good.

Weaknesses:

1. Challenges. He does it to back his players rather than win the call.

2. Believes that doing all the basics right every time will always beat a great scheme inconsistently executed. Leads to not always scheming it up enough.

3. Loyalty bites him in the butt sometimes by playing guys too long or sticking with staff too long.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

What he doesn't do well:

1. I don't think he handles the challenge and not challenging plays very well. I'm not sure if that is him or the people who are informing him, Either way, it falls on MT to make sure there is a good system in place.

2. This one could be argued either way, but I do not like how he will stick with certain coaches or players for "too long". Example: Matt Canada. IMO, Canada should've been gone after his first full season as an OC. That would've been his second season with the Steelers and it was clearly apparent that he didn't know what he was doing. However, a lot of people, including myself, thought Danny SMith should have been let go long ago. Now look at him.

3. I agree with you on your first one. Dri Archer for instance. Very athletic, not a good football player. Tomlin has this theory that all these players have the talent but it's the coaching that will out them over the top and I think in many cases that is true, but I also think in many cases this is not true and while a player like Dri Archer may be fast and look like he has some of the measurables, the guy might just not be a football player and this kind runs into my #2, Tomlin will let it play out until he's overly sure the guy isn't cut out to be a football player and that will hurt the teams at times.

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​​​​​​​https://media.tenor.com/l8RwbTkpNXsA...-walk-away.gif

:boink:

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

Cool. Pick a third topic I’d bet many on here would love to see you expand your horizons.

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As I said, the number of topics I post on is my choice. So since you guys want me to post on more, I think for the time being I'll stay at two. :flipoff:

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Originally Posted by Craic

The fact that you constantly berate Tomlin and turn every positive into a negative means I simply cannot accept your assessment of Tomlin regardless of what you say because you've shown such a severe bias that I can't trust your take.

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Oh, I never said that Tomlin doesn't have any positives. He does. My problem with him is that those positives, whatever they may be, haven't been enough to translate into playoff wins and legitimate chances for a Super Bowl appearance for a long, long time.

Steelers Mike Tomlin has NEVER Lost to Browns in Pittsburgh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhedBK2fzP8

Coach of the Year!

https://wp.usatodaysports.com/wp-con...celebrates.gif

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

Coach of the Year!

https://wp.usatodaysports.com/wp-con...celebrates.gif

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Race of 3 between him,Cambell and Kevin O'Connell

I don’t buy that Campbell is in that race. He was in it last year. The Lions were supposed to be good this year. If that’s the case, Andy Reid should be in the running as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXSUZ1W-ifw

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I don’t buy that Campbell is in that race. He was in it last year. The Lions were supposed to be good this year. If that’s the case, Andy Reid should be in the running as well.

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I see what you’re saying but it’s not a comeback of the year type award. A few guys have won it back to back years. A few guys deserving at this point.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

I see what you’re saying but it’s not a comeback of the year type award. A few guys have won it back to back years. A few guys deserving at this point.

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Lions are 12-1.

Dan Campbell is very deserving.

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Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler

Lions are 12-1.

Dan Campbell is very deserving.

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FIRE DAN CAMPBELL!!

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Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler

Lions are 12-1.

Dan Campbell is very deserving.

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I agree. At this point Cambell, Tomlin, o connel . Not sure if my point was clear but Campbell deserving last year as well as this year. If you throw in the Steelers were slated to be in cellar by so called experts and if they win division Tomlin could get the nod. A lot can happen in 4 weeks, especially with Steelers schedule.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

FIRE DAN CAMPBELL!!

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I mean he is 0-1 in his last playoff game.

Campbells team was expected to do well. The Steelers and Vikings were not expected to do well. If we are putting Campbell in that race, Andy Reid and Sean McDermott are also in that race.

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Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler

Steelers Mike Tomlin has NEVER Lost to Browns in Pittsburgh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhedBK2fzP8

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Mike Tomlin got humiliated by the Browns in Pittsburgh in the playoff game. I know people keep trying to separate regular season and playoffs, but that seems pretty artificial to me. We got our asses kicked by the Browns at home.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Mike Tomlin got humiliated by the Browns in Pittsburgh in the playoff game. I know people keep trying to separate regular season and playoffs, but that seems pretty artificial to me. We got our asses kicked by the Browns at home.

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Ben threw 4 picks in that game. But yeah Tomlins fault.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

Ben threw 4 picks in that game. But yeah Tomlins fault.

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Fine. Assign blame however you want (but surely Tomlin gets some). Point remains that that "Browns haven't won in Pittsburgh in 21 years" thing is meaningless in the face of that loss.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Fine. Assign blame however you want (but surely Tomlin gets some). Point remains that that "Browns haven't won in Pittsburgh in 21 years" thing is meaningless in the face of that loss.

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I don’t get Tomlin getting humiliated when Browns spotted 7 from bad snap if I recall correctly and Ben throws 4 picks. The whole team humiliated I’ll agree with. A loss to browns is always humiliating.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

Ben threw 4 picks in that game. But yeah Tomlins fault.

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Ben was an experienced Qb with quite a bit of playoff experience. Maybe the receiver ran the wrong route or the cut wasnt there, or timing. Or maybe the wrong play was called against the wrong defensive set, so it could be a Fichtner/Canada screw up. And if the coordinators are not prepared that falls on the head coach, so its not so simple as saying it was Ben’s fault.