Steelers were closer than people thought. We were just a coordinator and decent Qb play away from being a legit playoff team.
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Steelers were closer than people thought. We were just a coordinator and decent Qb play away from being a legit playoff team.
Okay slow down with the genius talk. Tomlin has taken it to the next level because he has the staff and players to do it with. The 2 QBs came over because they wanted to escape their previous dysfunctional systems and play for Tomlin. Smart move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
If you want to talk about top football IQ you can mention Paul Brown, Bill Walsh and Joe Gibbs. Then there were great coaches like Vince Lombardi, Don Shula, Sir Chaz and Bill Parcels who were simply great tenants of the game.
Tomlin has yet to define his permanent position, but one more SB win with a different QB and he goes to the former.
Try re-reading my post. I don't think you quite understood it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLD
Still an O-Line Coach and a #2WR away...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Kenny would lead us to two touchdowns in a game and you guys would bash him for his poor performance. Wilson leads us to zero touchdowns and he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
P.S. I'm flattered you are tracking the frequency of my posts. :boink:
OK, but you can't credit Mike Tomlin for the Steelers success so far this season without admitting he's responsible for the Steelers failures for the last seven seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler
Impossible…Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
Tomlin has been and always will be a terrible coach. Just ignore everything he’s done getting a crappy team with injuries to win games in the past. Those teams folded. Tomlin didn’t win those.
AND Tomlin DEFINITELY didn’t out coach Harbaugh. The Ravens just folded like all the other 8 teams did this season…
More people need to talk about how BAD of a "coaching" job Harbs did on Sunday. How many drive killing penalties did the Ravens take? On a got to have it 2 point conversion....that was the blocking effort by Agholor? Offense seemed to have no answers for what appears to be the Steelers standard game-plan against the Ravens on defense, etc. I realize that most of these I have argued previously are not really "coaching" but folks like to lump them all in that heading....and by that measure....Harbs got his ass kicked.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
...and a better, deeper, and younger offensive line....and a better, younger, deeper middle LB and deeper OLB corp....and a better, more experienced TE position.....and a much improved secondary.....and a WR room that now runs better routes, gives better effort, and actually blocks....and Minkah Fitzpatrick is able to play the deep safety position he was born to play this season.....and a viable NFL offense to play in.
I think that much more has been upgraded than just the OC and the QB. Even the head coach appears to have learned some things from failed moves over the last couple seasons and he seems to have a handle on the pulse of this team and how things need to be done with the group of men he currently has. That's a credit to Mike Tomlin. Some refuse to change, and they double down on their mistakes. Mike Tomlin seems to have come out of last season with even more confidence and enthusiasm for coaching and his ability to do it at a high level. It's as if he has a better understanding of where this team has been and where they are going.
I think Khan and Weidl have been a home run as well, and they have raised the talent level of this roster by a significant amount. The organization has broken away from some of the things they have always done and have upgraded they way the acquire talent in the modern NFL.
I think Tomlin is a very happy man and sees this as a large window to win championships for a significant number of years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Mike Tomlin and the coaching staff definitely outcoached the Ravens' coaching staff. They forced the Ravens into mistakes and made the Ravens uncomfortable all game long.
That was a great job by the Steelers coaching staff.
Of course from the TV broadcast view....it is almost impossible to see, but there were multiple key plays where Jackson dances around and buys FOREVER in the pocket and still has no where to go with the football. I am making a assumption that this means the coverage was incredible down the field and off my screen. From what I could see on my screen I saw a TON of #39, 6, and 24 either in the hip pocket of their guy or just lurking in the area waiting to break on the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
Once everyone takes a look at the fancy end zone views....I will be interested to see what happened on many of those plays in coverage.
And in addition to the "addition by addition", there has been addition by subtraction as well. Couple that with the expansion of the coaching staff on offense and I think we can see the foundation for these results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
The team is clearly rolling right now. The organization did a very good job adding talent to this team and subtracting some of the problems. The scouting department, Khan, Weidl, and Tomlin have killed the draft the last two seasons. Slayed it. They have made some very savy free agent moves that have been huge additions to this team, while also being a schematic and good personality fit for the locker room.
The secondary is balling. The additions of Elliot and Jackson have been immense. Moving Minkah back to his role that fits his God-given skills is immense. Porter is the high-end CB talent they have needed for years. There even appears to be depth that allows them to absorb injuries much better. When you combine what the secondary is doing, and add a piece like Wilson at LB, along with the uber-talented pass rushers they have.....man, it's fun to watch when they are putting it all together.
Tomlin is pushing all the right buttons and may be the most content I have seen him since he has been here. He is really enjoying the hell out of what is going on and the overall direction of the organization...and the roster he is coaching.
Make no mistake. This roster is much more well put together, and the coaching staff no longer has the court jester designing and running the offense. It's like a dark veil has been lifted, and there is much more energy and enthusiasm in the building. You can see what is possible with another good offseason and draft.
So I have been reading about how the Steelers handle Lamar Jackson and other mobile QB's (like Jayden Daniels). Lots of discussion of "charge the mesh point" by the outside defenders (in this case OLBs) to keep the QB either handing off to the RB or passing and then play man coverage behind it. This seems logical and sensible. Clearly it works. BUT....is no one else doing this? I get that no one else has a TJ Watt. But many teams have a Preston Smith. And I saw 91 being tasked with what I think was the point of the "mesh charge" more than once. Not every team has a Minkah F'in Fitzpatrick or Gumby at CB....but they do have a Diontae Jackson and and an Elliot and a Beanie.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
Honestly, I am not trying to be snarky or diminish the performance of the Steelers defense....but the NFL is a copycat league. And why is no one copying this? The explanations that are floating out there do not make the defensive concept(s) involved sound all that hard to teach up.
It take 3 things against the ravens....Talent,scheme and familiarity with Lamar...The steelers have the 3.One of the reason why Lamar is 23-1 against the NFC is because he is so unique and great at the same time that when you don't face him very often,this is hard to play against a offense like that....The only team in the NFC who beat Lamar are the giants in 2022,who had the former Ravens DC with them at that timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
And I'm sure that during the offseason, the Steelers are also preparing to play against Lamar, since he is unique and he is in our division... This is not the case for several teams like the Broncos a few weeks ago who have a top 5 defense this year but they had like a team who had no idea how to play against this offense!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Sometimes, it is just strictly a matchup thing and being familiar with the Ravens' offense. First and foremost, Lamar Jackson gets confused by the Steelers defense and doesn't fit his eye. The scheme the Steelers' defense uses in combination with the players on the roster, the discipline of those players to maintain their assignments, and a generational talent like Watt make the whole thing go. Watt at times is taking a running back or a TE out of the their downfield passing routes to chip him, then pass blocking him with two offensive linemen. It is absolutely crazy the advantage that gives your defense when one player demands that much attention and takes that much of the offensive to stop one player while also eliminating the route possibilities of those that have to chip him, or a TE that stays in to block him instead of going out in the pass pattern. The rest of the defense has the numbers to do much more, while the offense has weapons being limited or not available at all for the defense to account for.
The edge rushers need to rush the QB without getting too far up the field. If they get too far up the field and get pushed beyond Jackson...it's over. Jackson will be running all over the field and killing them with his legs...particularly in man coverage. In zone, the eyes of the players are looking back at the QB and can still react, but in man coverage the defenders have their eyes on the offensive player they are responsible for. In that situation, a great athlete like Jackson will destroy them. That's why disciplined aggression is what wins the day. Also, having more athletic OLB chasing him and containing him works better than a less athletic DE.
And after saying all that, none of what I wrote above works if they don't still defend him in the run portion in the RPO or read option game to keep him honest. They can't just ignore Jackson when he puts the ball into the stomach of a RB. They have to make sure they contain him and play the run well, because if they don't, more defensive resources will need to go into reacting to and stopping the running game, and the numbers then become an advantage for Lamar Jackson.
It always sounds like anyone can do it, but it's a combination of the personnel and the way the scheme is executed by the players. If every level of the defense doesn't hold up, the scheme crumbles.
i was comparing from last year. Not that much has really changed outside of OC and Qb. True, you can add Frazier, whos a an upgrage from last year. And maybe improvement in the ILB’s and Elliot at safety if you want to go into the details. But i think having a new OC (and a vet Qb with alot of past success who can still play) is huge. If we had Canada and KP/Mason this year, even with the improvements on D we’d be in the same boat as last year. Tomlin thrives when he’s got a competent OC (last time was Haley in 2017, when we had home field and were heavy favorites in the first round).Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
I wasn't arguing with you. I simply added to what you listed as improvements. But a ton has changed.
No Matt Canada means no Matt Canada offense. That in itself is gigantic. It's an entirely new offensive system. That is huge. It's not just Arthur Smith but a real NFL offensive system in place. Again.....huge upgrade.
Minkah being able to play single high safety this season isn't big? It is humongous.
Signing Elliot has been great.
Adding CB Donte Jackson has been huge. That gives them two quality corners. Nearly the entire starting secondary either wasn't there, or is playing in a different role than last season.
Payton Wilson at ILB. Homerun
Patrick Queen at ILB. Big athletic upgrade
Zach Frazier at center. Remember the horrible snaps and inept play at center? Night and day difference, plus surprisingly good backup play at the position. Huge upgrade.
Throw in McCormick that is really turning into a physical force that shows signs of being the right guard for the next decade.
Beanie Bishop.
Signing Preston Smith makes the depth at the position much deeper. It has already paid dividends and is an obvious upgrade from last season with injuries this season.
Mike Williams addition has already shown to be a good pickup that can help the team going forward. No DJ this season is addition by subtraction.
Even Trice coming back from injury to play CB gives them huge depth.
The Steelers may have lost 2 or 3 more games without the plays made by some of the new players I list here.
These are huge differences. What you call "details" are a new offense and a ton of roster moves in the form of draft picks and shrewd free agent signings. The roster depth is better pretty much everywhere. There are changes everywhere on this team.
I don't think Vince Lombardi could overcome all their turnovers + 2 missed FGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
They were one play away from overcoming it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLD
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The upgrades at secondary and ILB have allowed the Steelers to play man behind their pass rush now when they choose to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
It was absolutely incredible that they won with what they had to roll out there at ILB and DB towards the end of last season.
Ok, ill agree there are changes on D too and all the way around for the better, but still, none more noticeable than having a functional offense again. We can outscore opponents now. Id still like to know who made the decision to hire canada and what were they thinking? LolQuote:
Originally Posted by pczach
Seriously?!? Canada was hired as a QB coach for Ben, (like he needed one) under Fichtner. Should we go back to Haley? I actually liked Haley. He did exactly what he was instructed to do……”run the ball more effectively”. Nut job, but was a decent OC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
We may know where we keep the aliens that crashed here before we have the answer to the Canada questions of accountability. :lol:
then we doubled down and promoted him. Smith should be as good as haley, would like to see more effective red zone plays but i understand hes still just getting started. Better pass protection would help. Last sunday Wilson often didnt have enough time to look for open receiversQuote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman
TJ was a one man wrecking crew last year. He drove that defense. 19 sacks. Now hes got alot of help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
So you're saying that Mike Tomlin has "learned some things" and "changed" this year. I hope he has. But that begs the question of why all this "learning" and "changing" took so long. He's not exactly a rookie head coach. Where was all this learning and changing the past ten years? Instead we got at least ten years of him "refusing to change, and doubling down on his mistakes", as you put it. And the very fact that you are now praising him for "learning" and "changing" is an admission that the things he was doing for the past ten years or so were wrong and NEEDED to be changed, which is what I have been saying all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
OK, so after at least ten years of failure we now have the new and improved Mike Tomlin, who now has a better understanding of his team and is going to lead us to championships. I hope it's true, I'd love to see it. The results of the rest of the season will tell us whether this rosy picture is true or not.
It’s got to be tough getting up every day with a half empty glass. You rooted for a 4 win season so Tomlin would be fired and they’re 8-2 with 98 % chance of playoffs yet you’re still holding off on giving Tomlin credit. You say “I was saying it all along” like you’re patting self on back. The only thing people remember you saying was Tomlin needs to go and KP was the future. Not to mention you wanted no part of Fields or Wilson. So don’t act like you actually had a plan and the Steelers finally implemented it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
You give him credit for half a glass?!Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
He doesn't use a glass - too woke.
He uses a hand hewn wooden mug that he fashioned using only an axe and a knife he forged himself. That is the only way for such a true iconoclast.
We can argue about Tomlin, good or bad all we want. The facts are this team has zero playoff wins since the 2016 season.