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They had just won a super bowl, so I was in favor of keeping the band together as much as possible, so I was in favor of giving Whiz a try at HC.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
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At least he would know when to throw a challenge flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Of course coaching counts, but you don't evaluate a player or coach on the basis of one year. You look at his complete body of work. You seem to be saying "he's a great coach because he won a Super Bowl that one year, and the hell with all his failures in the fifteen years after that". You're trying to have it both ways. If "coaching counts" the year he won the Super Bowl, then why doesn't it also count each and every year that he didn't win a playoff game?Quote:
Originally Posted by oneforthetoe
IMO, only one of those three coaches actually deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.Quote:
Originally Posted by oneforthetoe
I suspect I was also a Whisenhunt supporter. I don’t remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
Whisenhunt did not go as well as we all figured it would.
He did get a Cardinals team to the Super Bowl. Had a pretty poor NFL record if
I remember correctly but then he was with one of the worst organizations in Pro Dootball and then went to. Titans team that was trotting Zach Mettenberger out there at QB and Bishop Sankey at RB. I think Nate Washington was on that team as well. I think he was the rookie Mariota season as well? He really had no chance there as far as success went.
It would be cool to see someone take some sort of program/metrics/analyzations and to perform a “What If…” if the Steelers had signed Whisenhunt.
That's more detail than I remembered! I'm sure you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
I think it all came down to QB. Got Warner in AZ. Then tried with the former Browns guy to strike gold with another veteran. Didn't work.
As you ,mentioned Titans were adrift.
Makes a certain coach who has made things work with a Duck, a Rudolph, a Trubisky, and KP look dang good.
Speaking of fun projects, has a coach consistently won with worse QBs?
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Joe Gibbs?
Williams, Rypien he won Super Bowls with. Jason Campbell, Brad Johnson, Gus Frerotte he had winning records with. Also a lot of losing records in there.
Didn’t mention Theismann, Brunnell because I look at them as good.
But the key word there is consistency…maybe not…
That’s a good one! Much less of a passing focused era. But still might be the closest comp.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
While I agree Noll is the best of the three, Cowher deserves his Hall of Fame status. I'm not saying Tomlin deserves to be in the Hall because he won 1 Superbowl. Again, the recent playoff drought aside, his resume stacks up against other coaches in, or destined for, the Hall quite well. It's also important to note we are in the parity (cap) era not the Super team era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
There are only 14 coaches with multiple Superbowl wins. Only 5 with more than 2. And let's be honest, of the 5 to win more than two club, only Reid and Belichick did it all in a hard cap era.
Tomlin is not one of the top 10 coaches of all time, but he is somewhere in that next group by any reasonable evaluation.
Listening to a lots of football related stuff past few days. It is HILARIOUS how many people are just remembering Tomlin's entire career as grinding out 12-6 wins with a risk averse offense.
He spent most of his career with a risk seeking QB being coached by aggressive OC's with a bevy of weapons. 3rd and 26 from our own 12? Screw it. Throw for the sticks!
I mean the last 4 years or so...yeah...it is accurate. This is MartyBall 2.0. But....that is why Tomlin is turning to Russ. He would really like to get back to an offense that put up between 200-300 yards passing in its sleep.
Fire Mike Tomlin for not playing Wilson earlier
Tomlin is doing something different this year. I said it in pre-season and got roasted here. Even Danny Smith is out coaching the opponents. Something is different?
Nah…teams are just choking and playing worse…lol
Dong wins... :chuckle:Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
The Pirates playoff drought aside, they stack up against the other baseball teams of the last 30 years quite well. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by oneforthetoe
Tell that to the KC Chiefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by oneforthetoe
Tomlin simply didn't have the team prepared to play tonight, as evidenced by the fact we fell behind 15-6.
FIRE Tomlin!!!
Not to mention he should've had all-pro depth behind all-pro talent on the O-Line. God forbid he get credit for coaching up players that are second and third and sometimes 4th string throughout the rosters and years.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler
I can't think of any other coaches that have regularly won games with those level of QBs...........there was Trent Dilfer in 2000 with the Ravens, but they had a punishing defense and running game, and this was still before the league became a full-blown passing league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
In the last 15 years I'd say Tomlin quite possibly is the only coach that has accomplished this.
Shame on Tomlin. Beanie should have scored on the 2nd pick.
Horrendous coaching
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Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by dislocatedday
I feel like other coaches get lots of credit when they win like 4-6 games with a season long string of back-up QBs. Tomlin ends up in the playoffs....and all anyone wants to talk about is how that isn't good enough. The man is achieving results that no one else is.
Anyways....it is a strong argument on all sides and not likely to have many opinion changes. Can not wait to see how it comes out this year.
Also...I think Tomlin deserves immense amounts of credit for how he has threaded the needle this season with Fields and Wilson. Sorry, but I truly believe there are very few coaches in the league who could've handled it as well as he has up to this point. And that is coming from someone who would've done the whole thing differently!
One year it’s DBs. One year it’s WRs. One year it’s ILBs. This year it’s QBs and OLBs and OL.
Tomlin teams seem to get injuries just as much as any other team. Difference seems to be that the Steelers keep getting the injuries at the same position every time. lol.
But Tomlin still manages to get his wins…he should probably get fired for not having the players bodies prepared for battle on a weekly basis.
The Miami Dolphins are 2-4.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
The Niners are 3-4
The Rams are 2-4.
Everyone just looks at their injury list and shrugs. Mumbles, of course they are losing look at all the guys on IR. Start talking about coming back reinforced next season. No one seems to question the capabilities and positions of the head coaches.
Tomlin has the equivalent injuries happen almost every season for like the past 4 and mucks about, wins 9 games, makes the playoffs, and gets complaints for it. It is wild to me.
I think when they got rid of Rudolph and then pulled the plug on Pickett quickly that something different was up and they wanted to win now. The Steelers did more this offseason than any other in recent memory. They actually had a plan rather than mix a bunch of dirt in water and hope for the best.
The Steelers had a good game, so the Tomlin apologists are out in force. Who gives a damn about no playoff wins in seven years? This game makes up for it. :rolleyes:
It's just not that black and white when it comes to the Steelers and the coaches, and Tomlin more specifically. The team has had player deficiencies/lack of talent in certain spots over the last few years......most notably they have been treading water at QB, the Oline had to be rebuilt and fortified, and the secondary was lacking in talent for quite awhile outside of Minkah Fitzpatrick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
Speaking only for myself, I think it is always easy to vilify the head coach and blame him for all shortcomings. In Tomlin's case, he has managed to get more wins than losses over the last few years and done it despite some obvious gaps in player talent. It's fair to point out the team has 5 straight playoff game losses, but he also deserves credit for the things he has accomplished. I think his biggest coaching gaffe the last few years was having Randy Fichtner and Matt Canada serve as the offensive coordinator.
I think the decision to start Russ last night was bold. I think Tomlin knows the offense has to become more dynamic in the passing game and he wants to see if Russ can help that mission. Last night was a positive first step in that direction, and I think Tomlin deserves credit for making that call to switch QBs when Fields had done some good things for the team in the first 6 games.
Oh, a team that managed to win one Super Bowl in its history back around Apollo 11 and Woodstock before Mahomes showed up? Is that the benchmark now? Because generational talents at QB are so easy to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
Speaking of which, the Patriots sure have managed the transition to the post-Brady era smoothly, haven't they? :rolleyes:
With Wilson starting the Steelers are only a couple of players away from being a dominant Top 5 team if they are not there already. If they draw up some gadget plays and throw more to the TE they can go far this season.
This year's STs are probably the best in the last 30 years considering run back TDs are nearly impossible on kickoffs. The defense is not exactly circa-1976, but is excellent in 40 out of 60 minutes against a watered down NFL.
If the Steelers are destined to win another Super Bowl it is going to happen within the next 3 seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
I thought we had a decent debate going until that response. That is just complete nonsense which I am sure you already know
As fansince'76 you are talking about a generational QB. so Tomlin suck because he can't draft a QB who might be one of the top 5 of all time.
The idea is that because the Steelers looked good in this game it gives hope that they will win in the playoffs this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
We’ll wake you up in January so you’ll have something to complain about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
The problem is that the people who make this argument act as if Tomlin had nothing to do with the roster or the assistant coaches, that he just showed up the first day of training camp each year and Rooney and the GM said to him "Hi Mike, this is the roster for this year, and these are the assistant coaches you'll be working with". The truth is that Tomlin has had major input in both of these areas since the day he was hired, and has either wanted or has signed off on every personnel decision or assistant coaching hire that was made during that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by dislocatedday
That's sometimes true, but it is also true that when a person likes someone it is also easy to make excuses for that someone's shortcomings and blame them on somebody else. So no matter how many players get sent away and assistant coaches get fired the problems remain and the record remains poor, because the person who was really the problem is still there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dislocatedday