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If I had my druthers, we'd be coached by Chuck Noll, circa 1975. But he's no longer out there.
A good question. And before anybody says "Jim Harbaugh," please take a look at the dumpster fire he left behind in Frisco.Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
Not an answer to your question but a good starting point for people to get an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000499554
They have Tomlin at number 6 and I think I agree with everyone ahead of him. Haven't considered those behind him.
I agree...Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
perhaps Boykin didn't play because he still hasn't learned the nuances of our defense yet but how hard would it have been for him to just follow Edelman around?
Then he should fit right in. Haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler
Perhaps Tomlin should come up with a solid lineup. No one looks like they play with any fire. It looks like they are coasting, for the most part. I won't even mention the confusion on defense.
What did Moats do? Can Jarvis Jones play the left side with Harrison on the right? I am just throwing things out there as a fan : ) I think Boykins needs some playing time.
You have to hand it to the Patriots. They started 3 rookies on the O-line and looked rather solid. I attribute that to coaching. Love him or hate him, Belichick does get results from each player on the roster. He makes sure each player understands what he needs to do.
not much, Dupree played a lot more snaps at LOLB than Moats did...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeldude
Dupree played fine until he had to cover, would rather have Moats and JJ on though, with Harrison and Dupree in on obvious passing downs (3rd and long if we could ever get there). Should have had Shazier shadowing Gronk all game. If he split out wide bring a S up in the box for run support. Boykins should have been on Edelman all game. Why can I come up with a game plan better than our coaches?
Boykins, hell. Gay should have been on Eddelman the whole game, he's possibly the best slot corner in the league and just average outside. Besides who was he shutting down on the outside?
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Originally Posted by teegre
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Originally Posted by fansince'76
Cowher? :behindsofa:
No, seriously, just knock him over the head and drag him to Mexico once every 15 years while we draft a quarterback and it should be fine.
I would've said Harbaugh also. The dude made Kaepernick look good. And two-thirds of the dumpster fire was the rats jumping off the ship AFTER he left. Figure the guy lasts 4-5 years before he pisses too many people off, and in the meantime gets you a shot at the championship of whatever league you're in. Our window is 4-5 years right now. Sounds good to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
In no particular order, and in some cases I wouldn't take them because I can't stand them. but strictly from the standpoint of who out there I think is a better head coach than Tomlin, start with Bellichick, John Harbaugh, Bruce Arians, Pete Carroll, and Jeff Fisher. Those 5 to me are clearly ahead of Tomlin. And don't give me Super Bowl wins blah blah blah, because if you're not in the best circumstance you're not going to always win. Fisher is sharp as hell and is building a team up from the scrap heap. Same thing he did in Tennessee.
Now after that there's no one clearly ahead of Tomlin. But some of the young coaches like Kelly, O Brian, and Bowles while unproven show me more capacity to improve a situation than Tomlin has done. So there's 8.
I'd put Andy Reid, Mike McCarthey, and Sean Payton on even ground with Tomlin. Can't say they're better, wont concede they're worse.
So that puts as at 11.
But here's the thing. Is it unreasonable for fans to expect or at least want a clear cut elite coach? Isn't the job of Steelers head coach worthy of the best available?
But we got Tomlin for a myriad of reasons. He's not bad. But is he good enough to maximize your chances in your closing window of having a franchise qb?
That's Harbaugh's MO. Get in, succeed at ANY cost, and leave right before the repercussions come a-calling.Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince'76
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Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyphon25
As as far as Belichick goes, he's like OJ Simpson to me. OJ is the third-best RB to ever play... but, I wouldn't want him as my RB.
Off topic for just a sec here - Jim Brown being obvious, but who is the other RB you have above him? Payton or Sanders? Payton would be my choice, personally. Just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
Re:CowherQuote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
Prople were calling for his head in 98-00. Like bad. This little rough patch is nothing compared to those three years.
Re: Harbaugh
I hear your point, but that's the thing: Harbaugh will get you "close", but like Cowher, he always seems to fall just a little short. I expect him to go 10-1 at Michigan, and lose one title game... and then leave... and a year later, Michigan will be under investigation for paying players.
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Sanders.Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince'76
Sweetness is fourth. I give OJ a slight nod, but not by much.
Can't go wrong either way. Log-jam at the top, but after you get past 4, it drops way off, IMO. E. Smith was the product of probably the best OL in league history.Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by zulater
I'll just address the top five. I see your rationale, and here are my thoughts...
Arians: The guy "Lucked" into those wins in Indy (see what I did there)
Carroll: He's great. Living in SoCal, he's a hero... on & off the field. Did he cheat at USC? Yes. Oh well.
Belichick: I wouldn't let Michael Jackson watch my kids. (Make sense?)
Fisher: Love him.
John Harbaugh: Up until two years ago, he couldn't beat Tomlin head-to-head. Currently, yes, he's ahead of Tomlin, but Tomlin was to Harbaugh what Belichick has been to Tomlin/Cowher. Plus, the whining!!!
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Amen!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince'76
If you are in the group that is driven nuts by bad clock management then you would love Andy Reid. Makes Tomlin look like a precision instrument. So Carrol gets listed higher. Can you imagine this place if Tomlin/Haley called that slant in the SB?
jeff fisher is the most overrated coach in the nfl.
I could easily say the same thing about Tomlin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Look we can find chinks in the armor on just about everyone. Hell even Chuck Noll has his detractors. Bottom line is save an unimaginable scandal or tragedy Tomlin will be coaching this team at least through 2018. It's very important to the Rooney's and their legacy to get to that 3 coaches in 50 years milestone.
But knowing that doesn't mean we as fans can't vent when we witness particularly egregious breakdowns in team discipline, structure, and execution. Sometimes our voices are actually heard, and while we'll never get Tomlin fired ( I don't think most of us even want to) we can at least possibly garner some accountability and effect some form of redress. .
Is Tomlin the greatest coach to ever grace a football field? No.
But we could also be stuck with the likes of what teams like the Raiders and Browns have had.
And to all those that call for Tomlin to be fired, tell me who you would hire at season's end. And be serious. I don't want to hear anyone say Bellichick, Arians, Carroll, or Fisher. Guys under contract that aren't likely to be fired won't be a head coach on another team next year. So seriously, if any of you honestly want Mike Tomlin fired at the end of this season, who realistically do you think could come in and take the Steelers to the Super Bowl next season (assuming we don't end up there this season). A head coach just fired because he couldn't win? A completely unproven coordinator? Give me names.
Did the Steelers defense look bad on Thursday night? Yeah. And with Brady playing, anyone who expected this defense to look 2010 good needs to stop eating magic mushrooms. Yeah, I think they should have put Shazier on Gronk, the result couldn't have been any worse. For whatever reasons, they felt that wasn't going to work. I don't know why they didn't play Boykin more, but from the little he was on the field I didn't see him do anything eye popping great.
I don't think the Patriots offensive line played great as much as Brady got the ball out of his hand literally just in time a lot. It doesn't help that our secondary is a hot mess, so they didn't force Brady to hold onto the ball. Also, a lot of their passes were shorter which I think was their game plan knowing they had an inexperienced offensive line.
Unless the appeal lands Brady suspended at the end of the season and the Pats are fighting for a playoff spot in the last four games or Brady gets hurt, the Patriots will likely win their division and have a bye during wild card weekend. Between headsets not working and not having Bell and Bryant to help create mismatches on the defense, the Steelers weren't going to score 21 points and walk out of New England with a win. Hopefully they fix the problems, let Boykin play more in the home opener, and kick the 49ers ass all over Heinz Field. If we have problems with San Francisco after the mass exodus there in the offseason, then I will worry about the (assistant) coaching.
Just in response to who could the Steelers hire? Who knows? Which of us knew anything about Bill Cowher when he was hired? Same for Tomlin. John Harbaugh was nothing more than a special teams coach when he was hired. Maybe there's another Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly among the college ranks waiting to graduate to the NFL ranks. Just because we can't indentify a sure fire upgrade doesn't mean several don't exist and couldn't be uncovered in a head coaching search.
That is why I don't even get directly into firing Tomlin because I don't follow a ton of coaches enough to know every little flaw in their game. The thing with Tomlin is that there just seems to be so many glaring ones that I have to imagine there could be a lot of possibilities out there to do a better job. It isn't like we are saying Tomlin sucks because he keeps letting Bell run to the right instead of left or because the offense runs 60% pass to 40% run or whatever. These are major egregious errors that make no sense on any level of thinking.
Garvin covering Gronk and nobody notices and thinks to call a timeout. Dri Archer still even being on the team. The lack of preparedness on defense. The constant misses on DB's despite being a former DB coach. Makes you wonder how he kept moving up the ranks when he doesn't even seem to excel at his own specialty. Clock management. There are a lot of things you can point to as pretty big flaws in his coaching.
Or they could fire Tomlin, hire someone, and end up with a guy that works out as well as Rob Chudzinski did for the Browns.Quote:
Originally Posted by zulater
There's a reason that the Steelers have had three head coaches since 1969 and in that time have won six Super Bowls. They don't go changing everything just because of a bad season or a bad game.
They could have fired Cowher between 1998-2000 or after the 2003 season, and if they did either the Steelers might still be at four Super Bowl wins.
What will it take for Art II to fire a head coach? Nobody knows because the Rooneys haven't done that since 1968. But if we fired a head coach after every bad season or bad game, then we would be the Cleveland Browns.
I think the argument to fire Tomlin has long since been conceded. I'm just sticking up for the fans right to vent. When questionable calls are made, when curious personel moves are made, when repeated clock mismanagement is on obvious display we have a right to bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNastyDefense
Or they could hire Chudzinski and he could wind up being the next Bill Belichick...moral...using the Browns is a poor example...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNastyDefense
Of course fans have the right to complain. But many of the complaints are not grounded in reality. How can you complain about the Steelers coaching if you don't watch other NFL teams? You have no context for a basis of comparison. There are 31 other coaching staffs and front offic s out there. That is the comparison group, not some imaginary idealized standard. The Colts got beat by the Bills. The Rams look to upset the Seahawks. Those are two early SB favorites. Got beat on the road in the opener. By the standards set around here, there should be some job openings in Indy and Seattle tomorrow.
Pete Carroll make the last 2 super bowl and Chuck Pagnano is on the hot seat this year.....
In that same vein, people would crucify Carroll for being too "buddy buddy" with his players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Using a "players' coach" analogy, if Tomlin is the Atlantic, then Carroll is the Pacific.
Does Carroll have a 1,000-yard stare, though? :chuckle:Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
did you see that onside kick attempt by Seattle in OT today versus the Rams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
he's got Pacific Cool ShadesQuote:
Originally Posted by fansince'76
http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-conte...awks-Coach.jpg
Was that the one where the kicker forgot to bounce it off the ground, so it got ruled a fair catch or something? Walked in from working in the garage right when that call was getting explained. Hopefully can see it again tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler