We knew trails/testing were/was going on. That's no surprise. The surprise would be if there weren't any trials going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
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We knew trails/testing were/was going on. That's no surprise. The surprise would be if there weren't any trials going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Of course anybody who pays attention knows that societies can become corrupt, confused, or lose their way. The Middle East is an obvious example. It's rift with conspiracy theories and sectioned off into tribes. But I don't think I ever thought it would happen here. No, I know I never thought it would happen here. Well, it has, and it's frightening. I've been through a war. I'm not sure which is worse. At least in a war it's all out in the open.
Good to see that we had to break out the complete nonsense "news" sources in order to provide even tenuous support for any of these claims.
Also, clearly someone knew about the vaccine trial. Your neighbor certainly did when she got her first dose 2 months before the election. All the people running and administering the trial surely knew about it prior to then.
Anyone who read this: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...-united-states was aware of multiple trials months ago.
But let's keep watching OAN and the Heritage Foundation. Wonder why you're "just finding out" about stuff now? Because your information sources suck.
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So did you not live here during the second Obama administration? You know the one where the leader of the GOP controlled Congress said (multiple times) that his ONLY goal was to ensure that the POTUS was not able to pass a single legislative initiative or confirm a single appointment?Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
Did you not see the pictures of people marching in the streets demanding that someone give them their country back?
Remember...there's good people on either side or whatever it was that Trump said...
Obviously trials going on, the announcement of 90% effective results is where interesting timing comes in. Pfizer had stated at one point in October results would be in but coincidentally just couldn’t announce until sleepy joe allegedly wins election. They just had to wait a few more days. Oh and a never Trumper is on board at pfizer. Just another coincidence I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
What difference does it make? Pfizers effort had nothing to do with Warp Speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...pfizer-vaccineQuote:
Dr. Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at the company, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” referring to the government’s effort to rapidly develop a vaccine. “We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.” As the Washington Postnotes, back in July, the drugmaker agreed to partner with the government to distribute a vaccine, “leveraging what will be a massive, complicated effort run by the federal government to ensure that as many people as possible can be immunized.” But the actual developmental efforts had nothing to do with the Trump administration.
OK. Here is the same incident reported by more legitimate sources:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach1
https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/sep/2...nounce-theyre/
Here is a Twitter thread (for what that is worth) that explains the unique "envelope in and envelope" process that PA state law mandated for this election: https://twitter.com/TimAlberta/statu...90030347808770
Both of these stories paint the same incident and facts in a far different light. That is why it is often legitimate to attack the source -- because the source sucks and doesn't know WTF it is talking about.
Really https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/h...arp-speed.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by tom444
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You guys didn’t read the correcton because it was only covered on fox and oann
And they say exactly what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Quote:
Pfizer did not accept federal funding to help develop or manufacture the vaccine, unlike front-runners Moderna and AstraZeneca.
Pfizer has distanced itself from Mr. Trump and Operation Warp Speed. In an interview on Sunday, Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” adding, “we have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
On Monday, a spokeswoman for Pfizer clarified that the company is part of Operation Warp Speed as a supplier of a potential coronavirus vaccine.
On Monday, a spokeswoman for Pfizer clarified that the company is part of Operation Warp Speed as a supplier of a potential coronavirus vaccine.
ADVERTISEMENT
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Did you miss that part
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Nothing to do with warp speed except billions of dollars
Riddle me this: If the mail-in ballots were in first, and the vast majority were received days in advance - why did they wait to count them until last, in secret at 4 a.m. and the next day?
A. So that the extras could be assigned to people who were confirmed not to have cast a vote.
And just watch - they do not even have an answer for something as simple and straightforward as that, but will viciously attack anyone suggesting it as a crazy tinfoil-hat person.
I posted that. They're a supplier for the US gov. but their vaccine is their own baby. They stated working on it long before they made an arrangement with the US gov. Did you think Pfizer was going to wait around for the US gov. before they started working on one of the most important vaccines in human history?Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
The hypocrisy is what gets me most, they spend 4 years not accepting Trump presidency yet Biden not even sworn in and GOP ridiculed for looking into fraud. They call Trumpers sore losers, lol. Tards have media, twitter, Facebook and now pfizer pulling joe out of basement and yet the still need cheating at the polls. Anything for powerQuote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
So they were never apart of warp speed , until they were. If you don’t buy into pfizer waiting until after election purposely so be it, they were scheduled to release results weeks prior and changed standards. If they went by intital standards could have released results october 13. I call it interesting to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
The law and state constitution bars the states from counting mail-in ballots prior to the election in 4 states -- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-election.html. In WI and PA there were efforts to change this and election officials asked to start counting mail-in ballots early. In both states, state level lawmakers prevented that and specifically said that nothing received prior to election day could be counted.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
"Why the delay in counting these ballots? Due to state law, election officials in the state were legally unable to even begin processing—let alone count—ballots until Election Day." -- https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/11/04/pa-ballot-delay/
"The state historically sees most of its voters casting ballots in person. In the past, only around 6% have voted absentee. But this election, officials anticipate between 60% and 80% of the turnout will be absentee." -- https://madison.com/ct/news/local/go...c00090910.html
In Michigan, similar laws were recently enacted that prevented anyone from doing anything with ballots prior to election day. Contrasted with Florida that counted them as they came in and was able to complete the process earlier.: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/polit...gan/index.html
Further in AZ, NV, GA, and PA; the networks could've called those states days earlier than they did. Most as early as Thursday after the election. The math was there to do the exact same process that is typically done to call a state. However, since no one wanted to be first or alone in the "call" everyone pushed it until later in the week.
In fact the most conservative election results data place I could find (https://decisiondeskhq.com/) was the first place to call the election earl on Friday. Their founder and data nerds have given several public interviews that indicated that they likely could've called it a bit earlier but waited for the math to be certain. And it does not appear this dude would be in the tank for Biden: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...est-new-electi
And guess who was part of the change in standards? Trump's FDA. Pfizer worked on a vaccine while Trump sat on his ass and now he wants to take credit for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
https://res.cloudinary.com/twenty20/...ac5f4492ce.jpg
FDA approves vaccine, nothing to do with pfizer giving updates on clinical trials.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
So here is an interview with Axios (which is listed as "Center" in its bias: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/axios) where the Pfzier CEO lays it all out. Judge for yourself: https://www.axios.com/pfizer-ceo-say...5c8d895b4.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
"I learned about those results yesterday, Sunday, at 2:00. And the independent experts’ committee, independent from Pfizer, that unblinded the data and reviewed, they met at 11 and they finished their meeting at 1:30."
Since early October, both Pfizer and media outlets have been reporting that they efficacy study would not be in prior to the election. Pfizer CEO claims he informed both the Biden campaign and the Trump WH of timelines. Further, the Trump WH should have known all about it because it is their regulatory agencies that are doing the monitoring and approvals for Pfizer's process.
More about timelines and process: https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-the-election/
Pfizer deserves all credit not Trump. My dispute is when they released results and IMO purposely waited.
yes it doesQuote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Actually it has a lot to do with it. Until certain interim approvals and authorizations are met, if a pharma company talks too much about a study it can get tossed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Look, Pfizer is in this for $$$$. Pfizer, through affiliates, contributes cash to both sides at the national level. They have no advantage one way or the other. If they are first to market with a viable vaccine, they get rich AF.
The FDA doesn’t give a “sign off” on clinical results, it was a pfizer announcement . Of course they’re in it for cash, so is Facebook, Twitter and everyone else who wanted biden to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
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Pfizer changed criteria 3 times, they discussed with FDA but it wasn’t due any regulations. And it wasn’t a mandate. 62 cases were done early October. FDA didn’t force them to up it to94 cases. Certainly not “trumps fda”. He wanted it doneQuote:
Originally Posted by tom444
So get with the program.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
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Right, they just happened to already be at 94.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
It was an announcement to communicate that they (Pfizer) cleared a massive regulatory hurdle. It was necessary for an independent review board that is totally outside of Pfizer to approve all aspects of the study and trial results up to this point to "unblind" the data. This means that they (Pfizer) can now know who got the placebo and who got the real deal drug. That allows both Pfizer and the FDA to determine how effective the drug was/is.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
If Pfizer had announced anything about vaccine efficacy prior to approval to "unblind" the results; then the entire study would have been in danger of being thrown out by the FDA. Then, even if the vaccine was effective and safe, it would have had to restart the entire approval process. In fact, if Pfizer had known anything about the real #'s prior to the unblinding, then it would have placed the entire study in jeopardy.
Now...I freely admit that I might have gotten some of this wrong as pharma studies and clinical trials are not my field. But that is my best understanding and I feel it does show that actions and rules by the FDA have an impact on how clinical trials proceed.
FWIW, I know multiple people who conduct clinical trials and the FDA lives inside your butt for the entire process and even small typographic errors can have potentially serious regulatory consequences.
That's another nice 101-IQ answer, but it leaves out little things like why only those 7 key states took an unprecedented shady action on election night and did it in lockstep - and why the results produced immediately afterward include numerous statistical improbabilities, with odds against that approach the infinite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
No doubt you will refute all of those multiple red flags with ever more laughable justifications for what you already believe. "It was all normal behavior, it's totally done all the time. It's just conspiracy theory math. You're moving the goalposts. None of it is true."
Maybe I am being unreasonable. I'm starting with the assumption - based on their own statements as well as observed behavior that has been repeated ad infinitum - that the left wants to win at all costs and is willing to use any dirty tricks and underhanded tactics to do so, including flagrantly breaking the law. Everything that just happened fits that pattern to a tee. They do not just get to put on an innocent face and deflect. "Cheating in the election - well I never! You've got a lot of nerve! You just lost!" You want people to believe your side instead of hating them even more, come up with a convincing answer to that practical reality that is staring us all right in the face, combined with every indication that that is exactly what has played out.
Fortunately, when people attempt things like this on such a scale, they make mistakes, and I am pretty confident those are starting to reveal themselves.
Gotta any facts or evidence? Or is this another thing where you insist things are true loudly despite any and all evidence to the contrary?
The simplest reason that Trump lost AZ is that he pissed off a beloved dead politicians still living supporters and that machinery mobilized in a massive way to ensure Trump's defeat. You can read all about it at any number of sources. But why bother? Those are all just fake news and part of the conspiracy, right?
In GA local Democrats have been telling the DNC how to win the state for over 3 years now. I've been hearing about their specific plans for over 18 months. There are numerous sources around that ALL agree (many well before COVID or anything else) that GA was far far more in play than the GOP was prepared to admit.
I mean you can find the data, evidence, and claims for all of this well before this election and the fever dreamed fraud was a glimmer in Rudy Guiliani's insanity.
All you that believe in voter fraud should contribute to Trump's fundraising efforts to cover his legal fees. Put your hard earned money behind the man you love and trust. You can go here.https://secure.winred.com/djt/electi...fund_teamtrump
Make sure that you read the fine print. 50% of each contribution, up to a maximum of $2,800 ($5,000), to be designated toward DJTFP’s 2020 general election account for general election debt retirement until such debt is retired.
So, essentially he is refusing to concede and challenging the results, so that he can fundraise from his cult followers and have them subsidize the costs of an election that he lost. Pretty much on brand.
delete ..created new thread
I get the Trump bashing. He’s earned it in many ways. But do those same people genuinely believe that Biden is the answer? What in his lifetime of political work reassures you? Personally, I will never in my lifetime vote for a candidate that is not pro-life.
I agree I wont be taking it either. Risk vs reward doesn’t justify for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
Unless you have any preexisting conditions or are in an at risk age group, you wont likely be able to get it for 6 months after front line healthcare workers or those in risk groups do. So there will be 6 months of data of people taking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
The fact that the Pfizer vaccine was produced with zero dollars taken from any government agency, makes me feel better since it was impartially researched, tested and produced with no motivation other than capitalism. The mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna are relatively new ways of triggering an immune response. The Astrazeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines are adenovirus based and it has been around longer, but not necessarily successful, so its interesting that those trials were on hold at some point due to reactions.
I am not in any risk group that would give me priority to get the vaccine, so will not get it for a while. I'll likely wait for the 6-12 month data on safety and efficacy to make a personal decision.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emg39r2X...jpg&name=small
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Again, all of you that believe there has been widespread voter fraud committed, can go to the presidents website and put your money behind your beliefs and financially support his legal battle for democracy. Its the least you could do.
I don’t know about “widespread “ I do know what happened in Nevada is disturbing. Most will ignore this whistleblower, they only listen to ones that have detrimental info on Trump. Ive never given money to politicians of any party and doubt I ever will. St Jude, wounded warriors or gary sinise foundation much more deserving of donations than politicians. Trump has every right to look into voter fraud its out there for sure. The question is , is there enough to change outcome. So I agree its within his rights I certainly wont be throwing my money after the endeavor.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Here is the thing I have about all these "witness" of rampant voter fraud. In an era where every human being on the planet basically carries around a HD photo and video camera 24/7...there are ZERO images? None? Take the dude in Nevada, he's walking along on his lunch break and...boom...sees all the fraud with Biden/Harris operatives sitting in a van filling out ballots by the bushel basket full. He doesn't think to snap a few photos? Even grainy, out of focus, unclear ones as he is running away?
Like 20 years ago...sure. Not everyone had a great camera, microphone, and video recorder essentially hardwired to their hands. But 2020? That is more than a bit difficult to believe.
Yet with Russian collusion , 40 million spent, claims of proof by schiff , clapper and Brennan that never came to fruition the whistleblowers were credible and “heroes “ to come forward. It seemed most of them were “believed “Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Now, you've just opened yourself up for being labeled as a "Bible-Beater" and believer in "Fairy Tales"...Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
So the transcript of a call between the POTUS and Ukrainian officials isn't documentation? I have little interest in re-litigating all this. It is clear that phone took place. It is clear that Russia attempted to interfere in the 2016 elections and the subsequent midterms. Evidence abounds. What is not clear is if any of that rose to the level of a criminal offense or an impeachable activity by members of the US government.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Currently there is zero evidence for election tampering or fraud. None.
Further when whistleblowers came forward before with claims against the POTUS and his administration; they were heavily criticized by supporters of the administration and evidence was clamored for. In some cases that evidence was brought forth and then evaluated. In other cases, there was no evidence and those clowns were dismissed.
Do you mean that blacked out image of a person, with altered voice that was on FOX? I mean, if it is then you are really drinking the kool-aid. A Biden-Harris marked van, with 2 men, err people exchanging envelopes and marking them in broad daylight outside a polling station? And this "whistleblower" on her break didnt have a cell phone with which to record this activity??Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Its like me telling a news outlet that I saw Elvis Presley shopping at a Walmart. I knew it was him because he was getting into a van marked "Elvis Presley" on the outside and he appeared to be putting Peanut Butter, Bananas and Bacon from his shopping cart into the van. I dont have any cell phone footage, pictures or anything, but would come on air to discuss it if you didnt show my face or altered my voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TagYpu2Rj48
Sure Trump has every right to challenge voter fraud. Just like Hillary Clinton had that right 4 years ago. December 14 is coming coming up quickly.
Ukraine incident years after libs claimed Trump colluded with Russians . Separate incident, no wrongdoing on call by the way. If no fraud, how did dead people vote? Or people who have moved out of Nevada? I would bet they find fraud in Nevada. But we wont know until after Biden sworn in. Thats when Nevada is set to investigate. They said post election whatever their definition of that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
And... ???Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelMember