What has happened to the Democratic party?

We need more government (tax payer) funded programs like the ACA to makes things affordable for everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Yeah, It is totally a non-rigged game.

"In fact, in real terms average hourly earnings peaked more than 45 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 had the same purchasing power that $23.68 would today." -- https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...d-for-decades/

https://academic.oup.com/cje/article.../4/921/1712745

"The wealth of American families is currently no higher than its level two decades ago" -- https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020...th-inequality/

"middle-income families saw their median net worth shrink by 20% and lower-income families experienced a loss of 45%." -- https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020...th-inequality/

People are broke and getting broker. Since the mid 2000's there has been a consistent slide down the economic ladder for most not already in the upper tiers. We have about 15 years of young adults entering a workplace where it is not always possible to earn enough money to pay all their bills. That tends to piss people off and they start looking around for solutions -- good or bad.

Just because you don't like the ideas or think it is funny, clever, and shows how smart you are to throw around "millennial" and "lazy" a whole bunch doesn't change the stark reality for many people. Most of the students I teach work their asses off. Have 2+ jobs, go to school at least half time, and many have a family as well. They struggle to find career track jobs, because no one wants to hire a long-term full time employee when the labor market is saturated with options of desperate folks who will take a less than full-time and low paying gig over nothing. It is not possible for many to pay rent, pay for school, and save for long-term durable goods (like a house) despite working full time.

For much of the baby boom and a bit beyond generation it was possible to work a summer job full time and pay for a year of education. You can't even make the initial payment at many large schools with that now. We can talk extensively about how broken and poorly led uni's are -- but it is what it is right now. Employers want the degree so students have to pay for it. They see that they work and still can't get by. So why would they want to sign up for 6+ more decades of that?

---

Ah, the plight of the poor, downtrodden millennial. I was told I could show up with my Communications degree and I'd be a tech billionaire within a few years, by putting in a solid two hours of work a day in between tapping on my iPhone. Wait, what -- that's not what's happening? Well, it isn't FAIR. I bought a new $40,000 car and I can't afford it on a barista's paycheck. This is just like the Homestead Strike. This is just like the Pullman Strike. Black people have it the same as Birmingham 1963. It isn't FAIR.

The world is changing and I don't like it. So instead of changing my approach, I'll blame it on a bunch of old white guys who are afraid of change -- er, I mean, who are evil racist bigots! Yeah, that's it!

I can't get a good job! So let's vote to mass import people by the millions who will do the same job I want for less money, and work harder at it too. Hey, wait -- the job I wanted is gone! It's not FAIR!

Pfft. Screw engineering or computer science or physics, who needs that? All I have to do is show up, and people will give me money because I am SO SMART. Hey! Where's my money? What? The engineers and computer scientists got it all? Screw them! Those are male-dominated fields anyway! It's not FAIR. What'd Elon Musk ever do for anyone? He doesn't really NEED a billion dollars. Teachers should be paid like pro athletes. I bet if Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos didn't have a billion dollars, I'D be able to retire comfortably at age 30. It's my RIGHT.


...


The millennial college graduate shares a lot in common with the California Gold Rush mentality, where everyone thought they were going to simply show up and strike it rich, and went to great trouble and expense to spin the wheel, and guess what, that's not what happened.

Yeah, I get it - a bachelor's degree today is the same as a high school diploma 40 years ago, and an MBA is the same as a bachelor's degree 40 years ago. Figure it out and plan accordingly. There are also a lot more choices in life than either working in an office building in the big city or waiting tables in the big city, and then being pissed when one way gets you a 4-bedroom house in the suburbs of that same big city and the other one doesn't. Plenty of ways to live your life comfortably and make a decent living that aren't just that. Figure it out and plan accordingly.

But no, I want this and only this. I can't just walk into a good situation, so make the government help. Can't somebody else do it for me? It isn't FAIR.

That's a cool rant that I bet goes over really well in the cool kid edge lord internet spots you likely hang out. I also suspect that all your friends tell you how smart you are and what great takes you have on the issues.

But based on a decade of working with college students across multiple universities of a wide range of backgrounds, what you are describing applies to almost none of them.

Most work and pay for their own education, rent, food, etc. Many have children. Many have a detailed plan for launching their careers. Most are mercenary and ruthless about what they choose to study. Almost universally they select being nurses, engineers, computer somethings, accountants, lawyers, doctors, cops, etc. rather than underwater poetry weaving liberal studies. While in school, they are often working 20-40 hours a week and in their chosen industry whenever possible. And they still struggle to make it work. If you ask them if they will ever own a home (much less a 4 bedroom in the burbs), have a new car, retire, etc. They just laugh.

But you have never been interested in learning something (anything really) unless it supports your existing opinion and outlook. Bonus if it helps you feel smugly superior to everyone else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That's a cool rant that I bet goes over really well in the cool kid edge lord internet spots you likely hang out. I also suspect that all your friends tell you how smart you are and what great takes you have on the issues.

But based on a decade of working with college students across multiple universities of a wide range of backgrounds, what you are describing applies to almost none of them.

Most work and pay for their own education, rent, food, etc. Many have children. Many have a detailed plan for launching their careers. Most are mercenary and ruthless about what they choose to study. Almost universally they select being nurses, engineers, computer somethings, accountants, lawyers, doctors, cops, etc. rather than underwater poetry weaving liberal studies. While in school, they are often working 20-40 hours a week and in their chosen industry whenever possible. And they still struggle to make it work. If you ask them if they will ever own a home (much less a 4 bedroom in the burbs), have a new car, retire, etc. They just laugh.

But you have never been interested in learning something (anything really) unless it supports your existing opinion and outlook. Bonus if it helps you feel smugly superior to everyone else.

---

Well, I have been through that exact same process and seen nothing like the miserable picture you are describing. I see plenty of former college classmates struggling to muddle their way through life, and almost without exception, do you know why the ones who are that way have problems? Because they kind of suck at things. The ones who don't? Far fewer problems.

Doctors and lawyers and accountants all living in poverty and laughing at the notion of ever affording a house. The fuck out of here.

Guess what the price of a house is? Whatever someone can afford to pay for it. No one can afford it, the price goes down until someone can. With literally every dwelling that exists across the entire country, that is how it works. But no, let's make up some magical dream scenario where basic economic principles don't exist or are stood on their head - it must be the damn 1% buying them all and leaving them vacant so they can laugh at us. That sounds more like it, because I'm MAD. It isn't FAIR.

So what you are left with is not a case of "No one can afford the necessities, everyone is barely getting by," but "I can't afford what I WANT."

The issue is not that I am some internet edge lord who is too cool for you (one of your favorite go-to arguments) - it is that you have a completely ass-backward concept of the state of things that is predicated on unfairness and misery. I am not interested in "learning" that because it is not learning. It is ignoring observed evidence in order to take up a narrative that, based on those observations, appears not only to be laughably incorrect, but also would require solutions that are terrible ideas. Things are bad, let's all be miserable together, vote Democrat. That's the plan. Fuck THAT shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

Well, I have been through that exact same process and seen nothing like the miserable picture you are describing. I see plenty of former college classmates struggling to muddle their way through life, and almost without exception, do you know why the ones who are that way have problems? Because they kind of suck at things. The ones who don't? Far fewer problems.

Doctors and lawyers and accountants all living in poverty and laughing at the notion of ever affording a house. The fuck out of here.

Guess what the price of a house is? Whatever someone can afford to pay for it. No one can afford it, the price goes down until someone can. With literally every dwelling that exists across the entire country, that is how it works. But no, let's make up some magical dream scenario where basic economic principles don't exist or are stood on their head - it must be the damn 1% buying them all and leaving them vacant so they can laugh at us. That sounds more like it, because I'm MAD. It isn't FAIR.

So what you are left with is not a case of "No one can afford the necessities, everyone is barely getting by," but "I can't afford what I WANT."

The issue is not that I am some internet edge lord who is too cool for you (one of your favorite go-to arguments) - it is that you have a completely ass-backward concept of the state of things that is predicated on unfairness and misery. I am not interested in "learning" that because it is not learning. It is ignoring observed evidence in order to take up a narrative that, based on those observations, appears not only to be laughably incorrect, but also would require solutions that are terrible ideas. Things are bad, let's all be miserable together, vote Democrat. That's the plan. Fuck THAT shit.

---

Oh for christ sake stop crying about everything will ya? You're crying about the virus, crying about the protests, crying about Democrats, good lord. If everything's going so well for you than shut the f*** up and enjoy your life.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/e729...itemid=5446510

Reading comprehension is clearly not a strong suite round these parts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom444

Oh for christ sake stop crying about everything will ya? You're crying about the virus, crying about the protests, crying about Democrats, good lord. If everything's going so well for you than shut the f*** up and enjoy your life.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/e729...itemid=5446510

---

This is what some say about HOF basketball coach Larry (Harvey ) Brown. 'Harv's not happy unless he's unhappy.' https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...icle-1.1050346

I think that applies to more people than Larry Brown.

"These people have a right to complain about everything! Quit complaining about their constant complaining!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That's a cool rant that I bet goes over really well in the cool kid edge lord internet spots you likely hang out. I also suspect that all your friends tell you how smart you are and what great takes you have on the issues.

But based on a decade of working with college students across multiple universities of a wide range of backgrounds, what you are describing applies to almost none of them.

Most work and pay for their own education, rent, food, etc. Many have children. Many have a detailed plan for launching their careers. Most are mercenary and ruthless about what they choose to study. Almost universally they select being nurses, engineers, computer somethings, accountants, lawyers, doctors, cops, etc. rather than underwater poetry weaving liberal studies. While in school, they are often working 20-40 hours a week and in their chosen industry whenever possible. And they still struggle to make it work. If you ask them if they will ever own a home (much less a 4 bedroom in the burbs), have a new car, retire, etc. They just laugh.

But you have never been interested in learning something (anything really) unless it supports your existing opinion and outlook. Bonus if it helps you feel smugly superior to everyone else.

---

Smugly superior sums it up perfectly. :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

"These people have a right to complain about everything! Quit complaining about their constant complaining!"

---

Attaboy, keep complaining. Don't try to get anywhere now because then what would you have to complain about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom444

Attaboy, keep complaining. Don't try to get anywhere now because then what would you have to complain about?

---

You must have forgot all your whining in this thread.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...se-of-COVID-19

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mach1

You must have forgot all your whining in this thread.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...se-of-COVID-19

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Aww, poor baby, you feel a need to get some complaining in to do you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom444

Attaboy, keep complaining. Don't try to get anywhere now because then what would you have to complain about?

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I'm doing fine, thanks, I don't need to "get anywhere."

However, when other people are constantly bitching - with the stated intention of creating problems and implementing bad ideas that will eventually affect everyone else including me - then I do not appreciate it, and many others do not appreciate it also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

I'm doing fine, thanks, I don't need to "get anywhere."

However, when other people are constantly bitching - with the stated intention of creating problems and implementing bad ideas that will eventually affect everyone else including me - then I do not appreciate it, and many others do not appreciate it also.

---

I just don't see any point in elaborating.

https://youtu.be/L6aA3fiwTs0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom444

The ship of state started listing long before Clinton and Carville came on the scene. They didn't help but it would have begun taking on water anyway. Now it's just pouring in and if we don't stop it you'll be looking at The Peoples Republic of America and it won't be due to pressure from the left.

---

You're defending what you thought I wrote instead of what I actually wrote. What I actually wrote has nothing to do with "the ship of state" listing or "taking on water." Instead, what I wrote concerned political discourse. The 24-hour news cycle meant narratives became entrenched in a matter of hours, say, up to 48 hours, rather than days or even weeks when the news was a small, repeating cycle in the mornings for people going to work, and a half-hour at night when they returned home, plus a couple of hour-long news programs once a week.

Carville's response was to make sure any narrative that cast his candidate in a bad light was immediately challenged before it became the set narrative. It was a brilliant response, makes perfect sense, and probably what pushed Clinton past the finish line first (just four years before, Gary Hart lost his bid because of an affair).

However, the results of that decision was that anyone who opposed Clinton and/or the Democrats in an election cycle now had to do the same thing. Moreover, anyone who wanted to push a narrative on an opponent now had to set it, then be ready to respond within the first 24 hour news cycle after the opponent's response. That quickly devolved into nothing more than a bunch of noise.

The question then, was, how do you make your voice heard above noise? There are two ways. First, shout louder. More and more people took up the mantle of their candidate. Congressmen and women, partisan spokesmen and women on news channels (in special half-hour or hour long shows that were based on commentary rather than delivering the news) all did so. Additionally, AM radio came into their own. Of course, AM radio started with Rush Limbaugh in the very late 1980s, but he wasn't a national phenomenon until the early-mid 1990s, primarily because of the election of Clinton. He was the only game in town on the Republican side that could respond to Carville's method, and he could do so in an 3-hour time slot. (There were others, but they were not national and were pretty unknown. G. Gordon Liddy was one of them). The Right recognized Limbaugh could be used to help set narratives, which they did to the tune of winning the house for the first time in 40 years in 1994.

So, yes, in my opinion, Carville's decision to counter the 24 hour news cycle is the political singularity we now find ourselves in. That doesn't mean there weren't precursors to it. There were, two of which are already mentioned: the 24-hour news cycle and the start of conservative AM radio. I'd argue the onset of postmodernity in the early-mid 90's and recognition of multiple local narratives rather than large metanarratives also set the stage. But again, those are precursors. The spark that created the political singularity was Carville's decision not to allow a 24-hour news cycle to go by without responding to an accusation or negative story.

Don't read this as "blaming" Carville. Again, I applaud the political astuteness, and if I were in his place, I would have done the exact same thing. I'm simply discussing "what is" without value statements attached.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craic

You're defending what you thought I wrote instead of what I actually wrote. What I actually wrote has nothing to do with "the ship of state" listing or "taking on water." Instead, what I wrote concerned political discourse. The 24-hour news cycle meant narratives became entrenched in a matter of hours, say, up to 48 hours, rather than days or even weeks when the news was a small, repeating cycle in the mornings for people going to work, and a half-hour at night when they returned home, plus a couple of hour-long news programs once a week.

Carville's response was to make sure any narrative that cast his candidate in a bad light was immediately challenged before it became the set narrative. It was a brilliant response, makes perfect sense, and probably what pushed Clinton past the finish line first (just four years before, Gary Hart lost his bid because of an affair).

However, the results of that decision was that anyone who opposed Clinton and/or the Democrats in an election cycle now had to do the same thing. Moreover, anyone who wanted to push a narrative on an opponent now had to set it, then be ready to respond within the first 24 hour news cycle after the opponent's response. That quickly devolved into nothing more than a bunch of noise.

The question then, was, how do you make your voice heard above noise? There are two ways. First, shout louder. More and more people took up the mantle of their candidate. Congressmen and women, partisan spokesmen and women on news channels (in special half-hour or hour long shows that were based on commentary rather than delivering the news) all did so. Additionally, AM radio came into their own. Of course, AM radio started with Rush Limbaugh in the very late 1980s, but he wasn't a national phenomenon until the early-mid 1990s, primarily because of the election of Clinton. He was the only game in town on the Republican side that could respond to Carville's method, and he could do so in an 3-hour time slot. (There were others, but they were not national and were pretty unknown. G. Gordon Liddy was one of them). The Right recognized Limbaugh could be used to help set narratives, which they did to the tune of winning the house for the first time in 40 years in 1994.

So, yes, in my opinion, Carville's decision to counter the 24 hour news cycle is the political singularity we now find ourselves in. That doesn't mean there weren't precursors to it. There were, two of which are already mentioned: the 24-hour news cycle and the start of conservative AM radio. I'd argue the onset of postmodernity in the early-mid 90's and recognition of multiple local narratives rather than large metanarratives also set the stage. But again, those are precursors. The spark that created the political singularity was Carville's decision not to allow a 24-hour news cycle to go by without responding to an accusation or negative story.

Don't read this as "blaming" Carville. Again, I applaud the political astuteness, and if I were in his place, I would have done the exact same thing. I'm simply discussing "what is" without value statements attached.

---

No, what we find ourselves in started decades before Carville, AM radio, Rush Limbaugh, Clinton, the 24-hour news cycle, etc. While those elements have acted as speakers to amplify it, they aren't the cause of the "political singularity" we find ourselves in now. You have to have something to be amplified first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom444

Oh for christ sake stop crying about everything will ya? You're crying about the virus, crying about the protests, crying about Democrats, good lord. If everything's going so well for you than shut the f*** up and enjoy your life.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/e729...itemid=5446510

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How'd he get in here?

The GOP helped get Nixon out of office. In 91, the Dems crossed lines and voted for the war with an agreement that he'd allow taxes to be raised without Bush vetoing the bill. Four years later, the political landscape had changed too much. And, it's never returned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom444

No, what we find ourselves in started decades before Carville, AM radio, Rush Limbaugh, Clinton, the 24-hour news cycle, etc. While those elements have acted as speakers to amplify it, they aren't the cause of the "political singularity" we find ourselves in now. You have to have something to be amplified first.

---

See previous entry for my response.

https://www.americanlibertyreport.co...or-him-anyway/

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/obama-administration-comes-under-investigation-by-congress/

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/barr-exposed-obamas-treason-so-now-dems-want-to-impeach-him/

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing has happened to the Democratic party. Yet.

That seems like a legit source of news and information. I understand more know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That seems like a legit source of news and information. I understand more know.

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Least i know how to donate to a site once in a while before i spew my vast and inarguable opinions. How bout you? Put some money where your mouth is .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold-hard-steel

Least i know how to donate to a site once in a while before i spew my vast and inarguable opinions. How bout you? Put some money where your mouth is .

---

Not speaking for anyone in particular, but someone could donate to the site and not request a donation tag. And honestly, calling out someone for not donating is kinda weak sauce in my opinion. I also don't pretend to know what other people's financial position is. Just my .02 cents. Y'all can continue your regular scheduled programming of bashing each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold-hard-steel

Least i know how to donate to a site once in a while before i spew my vast and inarguable opinions. How bout you? Put some money where your mouth is .

---

When you want to start contributing to my monthly bills; feel free to offer opinions on how I spend my money. Let me know if your interested. Other than that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 43Hitman

Not speaking for anyone in particular, but someone could donate to the site and not request a donation tag. And honestly, calling out someone for not donating is kinda weak sauce in my opinion. I also don't pretend to know what other people's financial position is. Just my .02 cents. Y'all can continue your regular scheduled programming of bashing each other.

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Well i certainly won't pretend to care.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

When you want to start contributing to my monthly bills; feel free to offer opinions on how I spend my money. Let me know if your interested. Other than that...

---

So start a "go fund you". You brought your "circular maize of logic" directly to me .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold-hard-steel

Well i certainly won't pretend to care.

- - - Updated - - -



So start a "go fund you". You brought your "circular maize of logic" directly to me .

---

The word your looking for is "m-a-z-e" unless you are describing a round ear of corn...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The word your looking for is "m-a-z-e" unless you are describing a round ear of corn...

---

Or Michigan Wolverines color pattern. "Maize and Blue"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

Or Michigan Wolverines color pattern. "Maize and Blue"

---

https://images.app.goo.gl/W5fZffQLzaHT1LCCA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The word your looking for is "m-a-z-e" unless you are describing a round ear of corn...

---

Yeah!!! Where your logic belongs in the corn field . Get it ? Circular Maize of logic . Wish it it in the corn field ? Never mind your just too smart to understand. Any way why not seek one of the many programs that your democratic party funds and offers for a mere vote.Don't worry about if you would happen to be white,or native north american,or asian american.Because all lives matter under the Constitution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold-hard-steel

Yeah!!! Where your logic belongs in the corn field . Get it ? Circular Maize of logic . Wish it it in the corn field ? Never mind your just too smart to understand. Any way why not seek one of the many programs that your democratic party funds and offers for a mere vote.Don't worry about if you would happen to be white,or native north american,or asian american.Because all lives matter under the Constitution.

---

http://youtu.be/_C34g5mz1ZQ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That seems like a legit source of news and information. I understand more know.

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Hope you understand "more know" on the origin of the "circular MAIZE of logic".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold-hard-steel

Hope you understand "more know" on the origin of the "circular MAIZE of logic".

---

Look, agree or disagree with the corn maze of logic or whatever. Not my problem. I was only trying to offer my perspective on what I think people are mad about and why they are angry about it. You seemed to take it all as some personal attack on your worldview. Got angry and spammed out a bunch of click-bait right wing nonsense links. I snarked at it and you snapped. None of this falls under the category of "my problem".

Liberals/progressive/socialists get accused of being delicate flowers that are triggered into safe spaces BUT why is it always conservatives that take an exchange of opinions at an emotional and personal level? Like why is my opinion (and not all of what I posted do I even agree with - which I stated previously) being different than yours somehow an attack on your own stance?

Why is it that conservatives always bring up some vague hand-wavy nonsense about how the Democratic party "buys" votes with "giveaways" to minority groups BUT then totally ignores how the GOP "buys" votes with "giveaways" to rich dudes that run banks and corporations and donate dump-trucks full of money to their re-election campaigns?

The "circular maize of logic" is that one party in America has aligned itself with fundamental evangelical religion and the corporate oligarchy in order to fill campaign coffers and the other party has aligned itself with liberals, minority groups and labor in order to find a coalition of counter-balancing donors to fill their campaign coffers. Ideally one or the other would occasionally get around to governing; but that happens less and less.

THe more you Now

The Dems should show some leadership like Pence and McConnell, by suggesting that people wear masks in places where they cannot socially distance. This way the number of cases can subside like so many other developed nations and economy can be reopened with fewer restrictions.

McConnell makes strong call for masks, saying there should be no stigma https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...d-be-no-stigma

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJRM2LDag_w

Quote:

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Liberals/progressive/socialists get accused of being delicate flowers that are triggered into safe spaces BUT why is it always conservatives that take an exchange of opinions at an emotional and personal level? Like why is my opinion (and not all of what I posted do I even agree with - which I stated previously) being different than yours somehow an attack on your own stance?

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I'm sorry, but that is precisely what The right thinks the left does to them. . Could it be that one's personal views over ride the other opinion?... and both sides are guilty of it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silver & black

I'm sorry, but that is precisely what The right thinks the left does to them. . Could it be that one's personal views over ride the other opinion?... and both sides are guilty of it?

---

Sure. Their are jerks on all sides. And we all do it from time to time. I just think it is hilarious that the right leaning internet has spawned this whole industry of calling people "triggered" and "snowflakes" when there is no one easier to get all riled up than a middle aged conservative white dude. It takes like two sentences and these cats freak right the hell out and become totally incapable of having a coherent discussion.

And I would counter that, in my own experience and solely that, it is much more frequent for someone on the right to be unwilling or unable to listen to a statement about why people on the left disagree with them. I'm not even talking about an actual debate or attempt to persuade. But just an attempt to explain why the left is approaching issue X with solution Z. About 3 sentences in and many on the right just start yelling about "America" and "socialism". I assume the counter-weight is some annoying liberal buzzwords such as "justice" and calling everyone right of Mother Teresa Hitler or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silver & black

I'm sorry, but that is precisely what The right thinks the left does to them. . Could it be that one's personal views over ride the other opinion?... and both sides are guilty of it?

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Yes, this is because its difficult for most to hold 2 conflicting opinions in their mind. Many cannot consider themselves devoted to one side, yet agree with the opinions of the other side, unless they are aware of their subconscious bias. for instance "Liberals are Socialists....I dont agree with Socialism and therefore dont agree with Liberals, so if a person has Liberal ideology, I must disagree with them on all discussions."

Holding two conflicting truths in your mind at the same time is painful. It somehow doesn’t feel right, because from back in the caveman days we are wired to pick one truth and run with it. Mammoth or no mammoth, clear thing. If you accept conflicting truths, the world will yell at you: “Are you for us or against us? Make up your mind!” And because you accept both truths, both parties will think you are against them, as you accept the truth of their opponents as well

https://netmap.wordpress.com/2013/07...thout-budging/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Sure. Their are jerks on all sides. And we all do it from time to time. I just think it is hilarious that the right leaning internet has spawned this whole industry of calling people "triggered" and "snowflakes" when there is no one easier to get all riled up than a middle aged conservative white dude. It takes like two sentences and these cats freak right the hell out and become totally incapable of having a coherent discussion.

And I would counter that, in my own experience and solely that, it is much more frequent for someone on the right to be unwilling or unable to listen to a statement about why people on the left disagree with them. I'm not even talking about an actual debate or attempt to persuade. But just an attempt to explain why the left is approaching issue X with solution Z. About 3 sentences in and many on the right just start yelling about "America" and "socialism". I assume the counter-weight is some annoying liberal buzzwords such as "justice" and calling everyone right of Mother Teresa Hitler or something.

---

Have you seen whats going on lately? Which side is trying to shove their so called opinions, ideology, justice or agenda down who's throats? It's not the right.

Which side are you on?

I'm on the side that doesn't support burning buildings, erasing history, attacking the police, race baiting, taking away rights, and silencing free speech. If that makes me a right wing extremist then so be it.

You may want to get off you self appointed moral high ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mach1

Have you seen whats going on lately? Which side is trying to shove their so called opinions, ideology, justice or agenda down who's throats? It's not the right.

Which side are you on?

I'm on the side that doesn't support burning buildings, erasing history, attacking the police, race baiting, taking away rights, and silencing free speech. If that makes me a right wing extremist then so be it.

You may want to get off you self appointed moral high ground.

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No idea how you got any of that from what I posted. I have not used the word "extremist" in any of my posts. I have simply used descriptive terms "right" and "left" as broad short-hand for the opposite sides of a political spectrum. I have repeatedly plainly stated that I ask no one to ever agree with my opinions or understandings of how we got to where we are now. I assumed, since the title of the thread was a question, that some wanted to compare and discuss alternative takes on what is going on in the American Left. As to how my disagreeing or holding an alternative viewpoint to you is somehow a "moral high ground" that is a position that you have assigned to me, and I assume anyone else that disagrees with you -- just look at your signature. It assumes inferiority.

But I think your unhinged rant has gone a long way towards proving my point. As well as underscoring what El Gonzo posted just a bit ago as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mach1

Have you seen whats going on lately? Which side is trying to shove their so called opinions, ideology, justice or agenda down who's throats? It's not the right.

Which side are you on?

I'm on the side that doesn't support burning buildings, erasing history, attacking the police, race baiting, taking away rights, and silencing free speech. If that makes me a right wing extremist then so be it.

You may want to get off you self appointed moral high ground.

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I know right. It's the left that wants a kid show cancelled just because a character happens to be a dog that is a cop. It's the left that is calling for a boycott of Dominos pizza because they tweeted appreciation for Kayliegh McEnany being a loyal customer 8 YEARS AGO! The left is always most boisterous over cancelling anything that isn't 100% in line with their views