Russell Wilson's Next Contract

A.M. thoughts maybe?

Russell Wilson is not the future QB. He is great for right now but he isn't a long term solution. IF we sign him to a multi-year deal, we are in this same boat at the end of that deal. Only we no longer have the option of extending a 40 year old QB, so the boat is now sunken.

We have a very young OL with now 1 season together. We have no idea who we will have at RB next season. We still currently only have 1 WR we can count on each week. I don't think Russell Wilson fixes this for us. Actually, I know RW doesn't fix this. As much as I would like for Russ to be that fix, he just isn't.

I would vote(this a.m.) to extend Justin Fields. As this offense matures together, Fields develops, and the new pieces we bring in are part of that process. We don't have to keep starting over every 2-3 years. Fields not developing into what we need is the worst possibility, but the same amount of time will have lapsed, and we're no worse off than if we had stuck with Russ.

So, to the thread topic, I vote to let Russell's Wilson's next contract be with another team and we should move forward with Justin.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

A.M. thoughts maybe?

Russell Wilson is not the future QB. He is great for right now but he isn't a long term solution. IF we sign him to a multi-year deal, we are in this same boat at the end of that deal. Only we no longer have the option of extending a 40 year old QB, so the boat is now sunken.

We have a very young OL with now 1 season together. We have no idea who we will have at RB next season. We still currently only have 1 WR we can count on each week. I don't think Russell Wilson fixes this for us. Actually, I know RW doesn't fix this. As much as I would like for Russ to be that fix, he just isn't.

I would vote(this a.m.) to extend Justin Fields. As this offense matures together, Fields develops, and the new pieces we bring in are part of that process. We don't have to keep starting over every 2-3 years. Fields not developing into what we need is the worst possibility, but the same amount of time will have lapsed, and we're no worse off than if we had stuck with Russ.

So, to the thread topic, I vote to let Russell's Wilson's next contract be with another team and we should move forward with Justin.

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I liked the Wilson signing over last year’s corpse, then thought Fields deserved to keep starting after 4-2 , then thought bringing Wilson in to start was great move by Tomlin. Now I just root for whoever plays. But if I were in charge I’d sign Fields as well. It was free experiment but next year going to cost. Wilson certainly worth 1.25 but let’s not make same mistake signing 37 y/o qb for 30 mill. It’s dynamic situation here though. A couple weeks ago everything hunky dory, now hitting panic button. 2 straight wins might change perspective. I would like to see full year of Fields before he’s cut loose. It’s better than gambling on a Milroe type and possibly waisting a first or second round pick. Is anyone available in draft with more talent than Fields? It won’t take a draft pick away signing him. Good risk/reward IMO.

Risk/reward was extremely low for Wilson. That paid off as the QB production was extremely better.

If they can get Fields at a fair price, I wouldn’t mind giving Fields a shot and then going into the 2026 draft with a QB in mind.

I would still draft a QB every single draft until you find your QB. I don't care what the experts say about the draft class. You cannot win the lottery without a ticket. Logically, every single draft is a bit much. Every other draft, or every draft when you know you have nothing. If we extend Fields, I could see skipping the 2025 draft. But, if the football world is not 'set on fire', draft a QB in 2026.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I would still draft a QB every single draft until you find your QB. I don't care what the experts say about the draft class. You cannot win the lottery without a ticket. Logically, every single draft is a bit much. Every other draft, or every draft when you know you have nothing. If we extend Fields, I could see skipping the 2025 draft. But, if the football world is not 'set on fire', draft a QB in 2026.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Well “compete” means make the playoffs and then who knows.

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Well if the plan is to "make the playoffs and then who knows", that was exactly what we did last year and you guys called it a "wasted" year. So if we did that again in 2025 and 2026, why wouldn't those years be "wasted" too?

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

But unless you have a “trade for Josh Allen” plan you would like to share, how else are the Steelers going to get the WB they need?

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I DO have a plan. We keep hearing over and over again how players in the NFL absolutely LUVVV to play for Mike Tomlin. So why doesn't Tomlin just go over to Josh Allen or Mahomes and say "Look, I'd really love to have you here. So if you go to your team and demand a trade to Pittsburgh, you'll have the chance to play for ME !!!" :wink02:

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Well if the plan is to "make the playoffs and then who knows", that was exactly what we did last year and you guys called it a "wasted" year. So if we did that again in 2025 and 2026, why wouldn't those years be "wasted" too?



I DO have a plan. We keep hearing over and over again how players in the NFL absolutely LUVVV to play for Mike Tomlin. So why doesn't Tomlin just go over to Josh Allen or Mahomes and say "Look, I'd really love to have you here. So if you go to your team and demand a trade to Pittsburgh, you'll have the chance to play for ME !!!" :wink02:

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Those are both ridiculous statements.

I did use the term "wasted" with KP. But I spoke of "wasted time". He should have started from day one and as soon as they didn't want to play him after his injury; they should have cut him. In fact, I correctly predicted that once the Steelers went with Rudolph, that KP was not going to make it on the roster. No one believed me. The NFL doesn't have time to mess around. The Steelers no longer believed that KP was a starting caliber. They moved on to other options.

I think their only real option is to get another big time QB in the draft. I have said that since like 2017 or so. And I further believe it will take 2 draft cycles to do it. They need to accumulate picks in a future draft cycle during a current draft. That will allow them to amass the war chest of resources needed to move up.

This board is mired in a morass of debating Tomlin and KP's on the field potential. The real root of the problem was that it was a mistake to allow Colbert to run one last draft. I honestly believe that he likely over-ruled other voices in the organization and drafted KP. Even if he didn't and it was a unified choice....it was a failure of scouting and forcing a pick. I don't think they do it if that was Khan's draft. Colbert forced a pick to cement his legacy.

I have no knowledge of the 2026 draft class. From the upcoming 2025 draft class, I would hope the Steelers pick the dude from 'Bama if they resign Wilson and do not retain Fields. Kid seems like another version of Fields. Similar flaws and same sky-high potential if his brain catches up to his body. Also seems like a boot heavy and play action focused scheme would be good for him. I believe we have just described Arthur Smith's offense.

Colbert's failure in drafting a quarterback and Kahn's failure to address wide receiver are the two glaring holes that have this team capped.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Colbert's failure in drafting a quarterback and Kahn's failure to address wide receiver are the two glaring holes that have this team capped.

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Khan did draft a WR. Hopefully he works out. Bringing in Michael Williams worked for that one game so far.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Colbert's failure in drafting a quarterback and Kahn's failure to address wide receiver are the two glaring holes that have this team capped.

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Colberts hands were tied with Ben’s huge contract. And we know how Ben liked working with young drafted Qb’s that might supplant him one day. If anything put the blame on ownership for the Qb situation.

of course i wont mention the Canada fiasco. The single biggest thing that can screw up an offense. Probably a group decision.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

Colberts hands were tied with Ben’s huge contract. And we know how Ben liked working with young drafted Qb’s that might supplant him one day. If anything put the blame on ownership for the Qb situation.

of course i wont mention the Canada fiasco. The single biggest thing that can screw up an offense. Probably a group decision.

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I was specifically referring to his drafting of Pickett on the way out the door. Mojouw brought up the point that they shouldn't have let him run the draft on his way out, and I agree.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The real root of the problem was that it was a mistake to allow Colbert to run one last draft. I honestly believe that he likely over-ruled other voices in the organization and drafted KP. Even if he didn't and it was a unified choice....it was a failure of scouting and forcing a pick. I don't think they do it if that was Khan's draft. Colbert forced a pick to cement his legacy.

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I just said this the other day. Colbert should not have been allowed to “draft and dip out”. It was pointless.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

I was specifically referring to his drafting of Pickett on the way out the door. Mojouw brought up the point that they shouldn't have let him run the draft on his way out, and I agree.

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I agree on that also. But they also didn't have a good offensive coordinator in place to help guide them. The team didn't have a strong offensive philosophy in place. They needed that first of all or they were likely to make mistakes - which they did. I think the problem went beyond Colbert.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I just said this the other day. Colbert should not have been allowed to “draft and dip out”. It was pointless.

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It was.

But the Rooney's are loyal to a fault. And Colbert repeatedly stated that he wanted to go out like Ozzie Newsome. Who, in Colbert's opinion, pulled off a rare GM feat. He built the Ravens to contend under one QB (Flacco) and then set them up to contend again under another (Jackson). Unfortunately for Rooney and Colbert, he took his shot in a historically weak QB class.

This is probably all hindsight making things look worse than they really were.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

I agree on that also. But they also didn't have a good offensive coordinator in place to help guide them. The team didn't have a strong offensive philosophy in place. They needed that first of all or they were likely to make mistakes - which they did. I think the problem went beyond Colbert.

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I mean, yes and no.

Canada's first year calling plays was the last year of the Ben Era. That roster was built to run some version of the "Ben Roethlisberger Offense". The idea was that another off-season cycle would allow the team to get players that fit the "Matt Canada Offense". They did that and then let Canada call the plays with the new offensive roster. And, to a degree, it made a sort of sense. Canada was supposedly this under center, motion heavy, play action offensive guru. And Ben (especially old Ben) liked a shotgun heavy, almost no play action, and little motion in his offense. So Year 1 was a compromise offense and Year 2 would be the full system. And looking at some of Canada's college stops, there was the expectation that the Steelers would be running some of the motion and play action stuff that was (and still sorta is) sweeping the NFL. Unfortunately, what no one fully realized was that Matt Canada was not as knowledgeable as advertised. He could make stuff work in college but when the competition level increased, he couldn't step up to meet it. It happens. Some coaches just can not handle the NFL.

The big mistake, other than getting the initial evaluation of Canada wrong, was giving him Year 3. The Steelers should have done what they did prior to this season after 2022. Teams get coaching and player evaluations wrong all the time. It happens.

If we go 0-2 I’m good with cutting Russ loose and signing Fields to a team friendly contract and drafting a quarterback like Riley Leonard in R2-3.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The real root of the problem was that it was a mistake to allow Colbert to run one last draft. I honestly believe that he likely over-ruled other voices in the organization and drafted KP. Even if he didn't and it was a unified choice....it was a failure of scouting and forcing a pick. I don't think they do it if that was Khan's draft. Colbert forced a pick to cement his legacy

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No, the real root of the problem was to allow a head coach who didn't have a clue about how to develop a young QB to try to develop a young QB. The Kenny pick was fine. It wasn't a failure of scouting, it was a failure of coaching.

And they're going to make the same mistake again when they allow Tomlin to "develop" the next young QB phenom that they draft. :frusty:

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

The Kenny pick was fine. It wasn't a failure of scouting, it was a failure of coaching.

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Nope, sorry. Taking a QB in the first round who didn't show much of anything until he was a 5th year senior at the collegiate level and whose (weak) QB draft class didn't see another QB taken until the 3rd round is pretty much the definition of a "reach." Colbert reached with Pickett...big time.

But sure, Tomlin's fault. :rolleyes:

In 2024 League Average (according to Pro Football Reference) is the following:
Comp.%: 65.3
Success Rate: 45.8%
Sack%: 6.97
Yards/Attempt: 7.2

Wilson is:
Comp.%: 64.6
Success Rate: 44.6%
Sack%: 8.68
Yards/Attempt: 7.7

That is a league average QB who gets sacked a great deal (7th in the league by sack %). Certainly some is O-Line, but I read at least one detailed breakdown about how Wilson navigates himself into a high # of sacks all on his own.

These are the numbers I would take to his agent when trying to come to a $$$ figure.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

In 2024 League Average (according to Pro Football Reference) is the following:
Comp.%: 65.3
Success Rate: 45.8%
Sack%: 6.97
Yards/Attempt: 7.2

Wilson is:
Comp.%: 64.6
Success Rate: 44.6%
Sack%: 8.68
Yards/Attempt: 7.7

That is a league average QB who gets sacked a great deal (7th in the league by sack %). Certainly some is O-Line, but I read at least one detailed breakdown about how Wilson navigates himself into a high # of sacks all on his own.

These are the numbers I would take to his agent when trying to come to a $$$ figure.

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In the last episode of Hard Knocks that I saw, the team preparing for Russell Wilson announced in front of the team that Wilson either holds the ball and throws it deep or dumps it off. Almost no intermediate throws.

If teams are that blatant about calling out the poor distribution of the ball and the parts of the field that a QB is not using.....it's a problem. It is much easier for a defense to defend the Steelers when a huge part of the field is ignored.

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Originally Posted by pczach

In the last episode of Hard Knocks that I saw, the team preparing for Russell Wilson announced in front of the team that Wilson either holds the ball and throws it deep or dumps it off. Almost no intermediate throws.

If teams are that blatant about calling out the poor distribution of the ball and the parts of the field that a QB is not using.....it's a problem. It is much easier for a defense to defend the Steelers when a huge part of the field is ignored.

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Yeah.

It’s not ideal.

And it fits with a pattern many of us discussed after his signing.

Russ “cooks” outside the hash marks deep and basically ignores his TEs and the middle of the field. Honestly, it dates backs to college.

If they can pair Wilson with a young(er) QB to mentor; then I’m all for him coming back. If not, then I think it’s time for him to move on with his life’s work.

ADDED: I’m willing to concede portions of it are design and playcalling. And the internal evaluation of that will also determine the Steelers perception of Wilson’s value.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

Nope, sorry. Taking a QB in the first round who didn't show much of anything until he was a 5th year senior at the collegiate level and whose (weak) QB draft class didn't see another QB taken until the 3rd round is pretty much the definition of a "reach." Colbert reached with Pickett...big time.

But sure, Tomlin's fault. :rolleyes:

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So then who would you have gone with at QB going into 2022? The only guy in the room was Mason Rudolph.

If the Steelers don't continue with Russ and Fields for 2025, they're looking at their sixth/seventh starting Quarterback in four seasons.

For all the stuff people like to go on and on about about the so-called "malaise" between Terry Bradshaw and Big Ben, and all the horror stories of Neil O'Donnell (Who went to a Super Bowl), Kordell Stewart, and Bubby Brister, they started for multiple seasons. The Steelers organization was rarely this consistently incompetent at the QB position. If you're in a revolving door of Quarterbacks, That's not a QB issue. That's a coaching/organization issue. How are we any different than the Browns right now?

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I would still draft a QB every single draft until you find your QB. I don't care what the experts say about the draft class. You cannot win the lottery without a ticket. Logically, every single draft is a bit much. Every other draft, or every draft when you know you have nothing. If we extend Fields, I could see skipping the 2025 draft. But, if the football world is not 'set on fire', draft a QB in 2026.

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To find what you're seeking, you first have to stop looking.

Ask the Browns how that strategy is working out for them. Shucks, ask the Steelers how its working out right now. Eventually you're going to have to find a guy and stick with him through thick and thin, and if it doesn't pan out, then move on. That's the breaks of the NFL. Or at least, that how competent NFL organizations are run.

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Originally Posted by Edman

If the Steelers don't continue with Russ and Fields for 2025, they're looking at their sixth/seventh starting Quarterback in four seasons.

For all the stuff people like to go on and on about about the so-called "malaise" between Terry Bradshaw and Big Ben, and all the horror stories of Neil O'Donnell (Who went to a Super Bowl), Kordell Stewart, and Bubby Brister, they started for multiple seasons. The Steelers organization was rarely this consistently incompetent at the QB position. If you're in a revolving door of Quarterbacks, That's not a QB issue. That's a coaching/organization issue. How are we any different than the Browns right now?

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True. The big difference is Steelers made playoffs back to back years in spite of it. Browns paid a guy 250 mill , Steelers paid 1.25 mill. It’s hard to find Burrow, Allen, Mahomes or Lamar. You try and if guy isn’t cutting it, cut your losses. I’d like to see Fields next year and go from there.

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Originally Posted by Edman

To find what you're seeking, you first have to stop looking.

Ask the Browns how that strategy is working out for them. Shucks, ask the Steelers how its working out right now. Eventually you're going to have to find a guy and stick with him through thick and thin, and if it doesn't pan out, then move on. That's the breaks of the NFL. Or at least, that how competent NFL organizations are run.

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Like who?

Guys that developed in more than 2 seasons include Josh Allen and basically no one. Maybe Hurts?

Where are all these current development successes stories?

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Like who?

Guys that developed in more than 2 seasons include Josh Allen and basically no one. Maybe Hurts?

Where are all these current development successes stories?

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They are mostly doing it with other teams.

Goff
Mayfield
Darnold
Geno Smith

And then maybe:

Jordan Love
Kyler Murray (Kind of)

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Yeah.

It’s not ideal.

And it fits with a pattern many of us discussed after his signing.

Russ “cooks” outside the hash marks deep and basically ignores his TEs and the middle of the field. Honestly, it dates backs to college.

If they can pair Wilson with a young(er) QB to mentor; then I’m all for him coming back. If not, then I think it’s time for him to move on with his life’s work.

ADDED: I’m willing to concede portions of it are design and playcalling. And the internal evaluation of that will also determine the Steelers perception of Wilson’s value.

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I think there is always a coaching element to it. Either the coaches need to work on making sure they attack those parts of the field, or they need to make sure the quarterback attacks those parts of the field when the opportunities are there.

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Originally Posted by pczach

I think there is always a coaching element to it. Either the coaches need to work on making sure they attack those parts of the field, or they need to make sure the quarterback attacks those parts of the field when the opportunities are there.

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I will say this - no coach has EVER gotten Wilson to consistently do it. College or pro.

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Originally Posted by pczach

They are mostly doing it with other teams.

Goff
Mayfield
Darnold
Geno Smith

And then maybe:

Jordan Love
Kyler Murray (Kind of)

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Yeah. But guys doing on second teams is exactly what the Steelers are trying to do.

Love sat because of a HOF and reigning league MVP was there. But he did seem to improve his game. So I get where you’re going.

For me, when you draft a guy, you should know by the end of year two. Maybe he’s fit more work to do. Or maybe better coaching to support him. But you should know.

How readily and easily the Steelers switched to Rudolph and moved on in the offseason tells me that internally they didn’t believe KP was the answer.

Doesn’t mean they’re right and those that do are wrong. It just means the Steelers didn’t believe. All their moves make an astonishing amount of sense if you start from that point.