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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
Here are the positions that the Steelers lack SB contender quality starters or depth at:
Center
Right Tackle
Quarterback
WR (they need about 2-3 more guys and they can't all be inexperienced rookies)
TE - they need depth behind Friermuth
DL - I am not sure they have viable DE's behind the starters
OLB - they need another depth piece
ILB - They have 2 they can count on. They need 4-5.
DB - They have 3 guys they can count on (MF, JPJ, and Eliot). They need about 4 more answers across the group.
That is one heck of a shopping list. This team is a year away from a run. They can be a division round playoff team. But the pieces need to gel and come together first.
we see things really different here man ....
that bold ....
you ONLY need what you state IF their are injuries ...
Wilson rarely misses time
WR I see it as we need 1 legit 2 we have a 3 and a pair of 4's
TE we never carry more than 3 and we have them already
OLB we have 3 so we do not "have to have " a quality 4th just a warm body would do as long as we stay injury free
we have never in the history of the organization has 5 quality ILB pretty lucky when you have 3 4 is a true abundance , we got really unlucky at ILB and Safety last year
DB , I love what we have , sure we could use another guy or two in case Rush or Trice doesn't work out but I think we got some young guns ion those two would like another SS tho
we have the rest of FA , the draft and the 2nd round of FA and roster cuts to fill depth
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
we see things really different here man ....
that bold ....
you ONLY need what you state IF their are injuries ...
Wilson rarely misses time
WR I see it as we need 1 legit 2 we have a 3 and a pair of 4's
TE we never carry more than 3 and we have them already
OLB we have 3 so we do not "have to have " a quality 4th just a warm body would do as long as we stay injury free
we have never in the history of the organization has 5 quality ILB pretty lucky when you have 3 4 is a true abundance , we got really unlucky at ILB and Safety last year
DB , I love what we have , sure we could use another guy or two in case Rush or Trice doesn't work out but I think we got some young guns ion those two would like another SS tho
Just to piggyback...we just brought in a SS(Elliott) and we still have Kazee and Thompson on roster. At FS we have Minkah and Killebrew. I do like the idea of bringing in a versatile rookie CB like McKinstry this draft that can play both outside and slot CB positions. He would not have to be thrown into action day1 but could if needed.
I think our TE and OLB rooms are pretty awesome right now. ILB we just don't know the status of Cole Holcomb. Roberts, Queen, and Robinson needs depth help. Roberts, Queen Holcomb and Robinson is pretty solid.
We will add a QB. In previous seasons we have always carried 3. That may not be the case moving forward. Have to wait and see.
The WR room needed help before the DJ trade. Now it definitely needs some help. FA and draft, I hope.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Born2Steel
Just to piggyback...we just brought in a SS(Elliott) and we still have Kazee and Thompson on roster. At FS we have Minkah and Killebrew. I do like the idea of bringing in a versatile rookie CB like McKinstry this draft that can play both outside and slot CB positions. He would not have to be thrown into action day1 but could if needed.
I think our TE and OLB rooms are pretty awesome right now. ILB we just don't know the status of Cole Holcomb. Roberts, Queen, and Robinson needs depth help. Roberts, Queen Holcomb and Robinson is pretty solid.
We will add a QB. In previous seasons we have always carried 3. That may not be the case moving forward. Have to wait and see.
The WR room needed help before the DJ trade. Now it definitely needs some help. FA and draft, I hope.
not that they are answers but we have signed 2 guys who have done it before just not recently in Van Jefferson ( 800 yards in 2021) and Calloway also in 2021 had 700 yards ...if either of them can give you #3 or #4 numbers and you still have CA3 as a wildcard ( Denzel Mims as another wild card that has traits who washed out of the Jets but they have had terrible QB issues ) we could be just 1 guy away from a really nice room ...sure a lot of speculation but also a reasonable chance those guys can play out as described ..
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
we see things really different here man ....
that bold ....
you ONLY need what you state IF their are injuries ...
Wilson rarely misses time
WR I see it as we need 1 legit 2 we have a 3 and a pair of 4's
TE we never carry more than 3 and we have them already
OLB we have 3 so we do not "have to have " a quality 4th just a warm body would do as long as we stay injury free
we have never in the history of the organization has 5 quality ILB pretty lucky when you have 3 4 is a true abundance , we got really unlucky at ILB and Safety last year
DB , I love what we have , sure we could use another guy or two in case Rush or Trice doesn't work out but I think we got some young guns ion those two would like another SS tho
we have the rest of FA , the draft and the 2nd round of FA and roster cuts to fill depth
I would argue WHEN there are injuries:
1. Smith's offense is basically TE centric. The Steelers have like 1.5 TEs. PF can do a bit of everything. Washington can block. Heyward can catch. Washington can't seem to catch and Heyward can't block much do to size. They need more here.
2. When is the last time the Steelers stayed injury free at OLB? The basic premise of the defense doesn't work without OLB pass rush.
3. They have Roberts and Queen at ILB. Great starting point. Roberts is always injured and battles through. Holcomb may never play football again - that injury was horrific. The lack of details likely means his entire knee is pudding. Robinson was so not ready to play that they signed multiple retired old guys off the street and gave them snaps instead. They are still woefully thin at ILB. Further ILB injuries killed the playoff hopes of the Steelers, Bills, and 49ers at various stages. Recent evidence is that if you want to WIN the SB as a 3-4 team, you better be crazy deep at ILB.
4. You have 3 guys that have started in the NFL with success at DB. I think Kazee is still on the roster...so a borderline starter that either gets hurt or shows you why he isn't a starter when he gets extended run. You're short another outside CB, a nickel CB, and any semblance of depth. I guess new guy...so maybe a nickel?
And that is not addressing the fact that the team lacks a credible starter at OT, Center, and WR.
That is a ton of holes to patch and have come together in one off-season.
More likely that 2024 gets MOST of the pieces in place. Team learns to play together and gets to the second round of the playoffs. 2025 finishing pieces are put in place and team makes a more "serious" run. 2026 team is a big swinging dong contender. Assuming Wilson either finds the fountain of youth or they somehow nail a QB in all this....
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
not that they are answers but we have signed 2 guys who have done it before just not recently in Van Jefferson ( 800 yards in 2021) and Calloway also in 2021 had 700 yards ...if either of them can give you #3 or #4 numbers and you still have CA3 as a wildcard ( Denzel Mims as another wild card that has traits who washed out of the Jets but they have had terrible QB issues ) we could be just 1 guy away from a really nice room ...sure a lot of speculation but also a reasonable chance those guys can play out as described ..
I like the idea of letting CA3 play the Z and using him much the way we did Mike Wallace. In that personnel group, Pickens moves to the X.
I liked Calloway coming out of Tennessee. He was sort of the goto 3rd down guy there. I just remember really good hands, caught pretty much everything. I wonder if he could play the slot role? I don't know Van Jefferson. I will look him up.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
I would argue WHEN there are injuries:
1. Smith's offense is basically TE centric. The Steelers have like 1.5 TEs. PF can do a bit of everything. Washington can block. Heyward can catch. Washington can't seem to catch and Heyward can't block much do to size. They need more here.
2. When is the last time the Steelers stayed injury free at OLB? The basic premise of the defense doesn't work without OLB pass rush.
3. They have Roberts and Queen at ILB. Great starting point. Roberts is always injured and battles through. Holcomb may never play football again - that injury was horrific. The lack of details likely means his entire knee is pudding. Robinson was so not ready to play that they signed multiple retired old guys off the street and gave them snaps instead. They are still woefully thin at ILB. Further ILB injuries killed the playoff hopes of the Steelers, Bills, and 49ers at various stages. Recent evidence is that if you want to WIN the SB as a 3-4 team, you better be crazy deep at ILB.
4. You have 3 guys that have started in the NFL with success at DB. I think Kazee is still on the roster...so a borderline starter that either gets hurt or shows you why he isn't a starter when he gets extended run. You're short another outside CB, a nickel CB, and any semblance of depth. I guess new guy...so maybe a nickel?
And that is not addressing the fact that the team lacks a credible starter at OT, Center, and WR.
That is a ton of holes to patch and have come together in one off-season.
More likely that 2024 gets MOST of the pieces in place. Team learns to play together and gets to the second round of the playoffs. 2025 finishing pieces are put in place and team makes a more "serious" run. 2026 team is a big swinging dong contender. Assuming Wilson either finds the fountain of youth or they somehow nail a QB in all this....
I just cant keep doing this ....
with all the Russ cant run , cant throw deep , has no pocket mobility ( shared a video in another thread proving that is all bullshit ) now Washington cant catch ...newsflash I will prove that wrong too but then I am done yall can just make shit up as you go to try and be smarter than the next guy and or ahead of the curve ...
for a Guy who can not catch .....
Quote:
Washington secured seven of 10 targets during the 2023 season.
hard to catch balls NOT thrown to you but I digress keep making shit up I am done ......
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
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Originally Posted by
Mojouw
I do think this team is adrift with the QB position.
Signing a bridge QB, much less Trubisky, was an obvious and clear mistake. They did it anyway.
Not letting KP play from the minute he was drafted compounded that mistake. They did it anyway.
Retaining Canada for stability during KP 's second year was a mistake. They did it anyway.
Benching KP at the end of last season and for the playoffs made his removal from the roster inevitable. They did it anyway.
Signing Russell Wilson is at best rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic and at worst lighting the Titanic on fire. They did it anyway.
All of these mistakes were clear and obvious to many observers. The team made them anyways because they've prioritized winning an individual game over long term team building.
The belief they were a step away from a deep playoff run has bedeviled this team since about 2020 or so. They've made short-term focused roster decisions again and again.
QB is just the most visible. Until the Steelers accept the reality that they are MANY steps away from consistently wining in the playoffs and commit to the long, difficult, and painful process of building out the roster; the bad decisions will continue.
Sent from my SM-T220 using Tapatalk
This is my feelings 100%.
I'm more ticked that this team just keeps sticking their heads up their ***.
If you're going to draft a QB at #20, then put him into a position to succeed with a real offensive coordinator and start him right away, not after Trustinky has put you into a losing hole.
Bringing in Trustinky to start over a #20 pick was moronic.
KP might suck, but we'll never know because of the clueless people running the team and making coaching/personnel decisions.
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Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
There are SB teams that don't have a Center on the roster?
There are SB teams that lack talent at the QB position? I guess the Niners....but they had almost zero questions at other roster spots last year.
There are SB teams with ONE legitimate NFL starting caliber WR? The Chiefs last season? But then having the modern-day QB champ on the roster kinda makes up for that...
Sorry...but they don't have to patch all those holes. But this team is two off-seasons away from a SB -- at least.
You can make a similar list with different positions in regards to all NFL teams.
Of course teams have centers. Super Bowl teams in contention for the 2024 Super Bowl all have a huge list of holes and I’m pretty sure at some point, the Steelers will have a Center. Lol. But for argument sake to answer your current question, the Jaguars who many think are good. No center. Rams - no center, Dolphins - no center. There have been PLENTY of teams with a weakness at Center. Plenty of Super Bowl teams with questionable WRs…2004 Patriots.
2023 - Brock Purdy
2021 - Matthew Stafford
2019 - Jimmy Garoppolo
2018 - Jared Goff
2017 - Nick Foles
2016 - Matt Ryan
2012 - Joe Flacco
2012 - Colin Kaepernick
All of those QBs listed are on a level, if not below DangerRuss.
I won’t argue that they are far away from a Super Bowl but you can make that list about any team…even ones that win Super Bowls.
2023 Chiefs - lacked depth at QB (Chris Oladokun). Lacked depth at RB, Questionable WRs, super lack of depth at the OL positions. LBs weren’t great. Depth issues on defense. On paper, their roster isn’t great…
Last time I checked, the roster wasn’t finalized and there’s still A LOT of time remaining and A LOT of talent out there.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
You get the emotional high. Yeah, the Steelers cleaning house. They got rid of the bad quarterback. Then it suddenly hits you. He's gone, so now what?
The Pickett situation is ugly enough as it is, and I fear its going to get even uglier in the coming months. I don't think we, or the Steelers brass knows the long term ramifications of what they just did. I'm not saying Pickett would've been good if we kept him, but these are the types of moves that change franchises and usually not for the best.
When the Steelers cut Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox, they let them go after they already had their thing in place. Now it gets desperate.
The Steelers are stuck with a 36-year old Wilson, lost all of their potential leverage in negotiations (Teams now KNOW they're desperate for a QB), and their other option is in Tennessee. Getting Justin Fields now will cost them, and who knows what that will do to Wilson after the song and dance press conference they just thrown for him.
I hope I'm wrong, but hot damn did Tomlin and Khan really bungle this.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
How's Kenny gonna feel when he finds out the Eagles actually were trying to get Fields from the Bears and "settled" for him??
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
86WARD
You can make a similar list with different positions in regards to all NFL teams.
Of course teams have centers. Super Bowl teams in contention for the 2024 Super Bowl all have a huge list of holes and I’m pretty sure at some point, the Steelers will have a Center. Lol. But for argument sake to answer your current question, the Jaguars who many think are good. No center. Rams - no center, Dolphins - no center. There have been PLENTY of teams with a weakness at Center. Plenty of Super Bowl teams with questionable WRs…2004 Patriots.
2023 - Brock Purdy
2021 - Matthew Stafford
2019 - Jimmy Garoppolo
2018 - Jared Goff
2017 - Nick Foles
2016 - Matt Ryan
2012 - Joe Flacco
2012 - Colin Kaepernick
All of those QBs listed are on a level, if not below DangerRuss.
I won’t argue that they are far away from a Super Bowl but you can make that list about any team…even ones that win Super Bowls.
2023 Chiefs - lacked depth at QB (Chris Oladokun). Lacked depth at RB, Questionable WRs, super lack of depth at the OL positions. LBs weren’t great. Depth issues on defense. On paper, their roster isn’t great…
Last time I checked, the roster wasn’t finalized and there’s still A LOT of time remaining and A LOT of talent out there.
Sure. All teams have holes. Granted.
But the Chiefs cover holes with their all everything QB and elite game planning staff on both sides of the ball.
That's not the Steelers. Yet.
I'm not arguing that the Steelers can't make noise. But to pretend they just drop a QB into this thing and instant SB contender emerges out the other side is laughable.
They've got issues at almost every position group.
And they don't have a QB that can elevate the roster beyond itself.
I kinda figure their the Cowboys of the AFC.
Also whoever said the Jags and Dolphins were SB caliber teams is a bit out of kilter.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
Sure. All teams have holes. Granted.
But the Chiefs cover holes with their all everything QB and elite game planning staff on both sides of the ball.
That's not the Steelers. Yet.
I'm not arguing that the Steelers can't make noise. But to pretend they just drop a QB into this thing and instant SB contender emerges out the other side is laughable.
They've got issues at almost every position group.
And they don't have a QB that can elevate the roster beyond itself.
I kinda figure their the Cowboys of the AFC.
Also whoever said the Jags and Dolphins were SB caliber teams is a bit out of kilter.
Are people dropping Wilson in and assuming it’s a Super Bowl team?
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dwinsgames
I just cant keep doing this ....
with all the Russ cant run , cant throw deep , has no pocket mobility ( shared a video in another thread proving that is all bullshit ) now Washington cant catch ...newsflash I will prove that wrong too but then I am done yall can just make shit up as you go to try and be smarter than the next guy and or ahead of the curve ...
for a Guy who can not catch ..... hard to catch balls NOT thrown to you but I digress keep making shit up I am done ......
Please share some of what you're smoking if you think the 2023 Steelers plus Wilson are a SB team.
That's my point.
Smith's gotta get the guys to run his stuff. They have like half a credible OL and their two injuries from not stopping the run on defense.
They've got ONE WR they can have faith in getting open. Running the right plays and not melting down? Who knows.
I get that additional players are coming but they've got more holes than opportunity to fill them all.
And while the exaggerated arguments you're attempting to counter about Wilson are not mine; I do not believe he elevates a roster and covers up holes like prime Ben, Brady, or Mahomes.
Wilson can keep the machine from breaking down. But the machine isn't complete. And I don't think they'll be able to get all the parts assembled this year.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
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Originally Posted by
Shoes
I'd surely take Fields over Tannehill
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and a draft pick! :chuckle:
And which of the essential defensive players do you want to get rid of for his contract. Reason we have such an expensive defense is Bens retirement. Now you want to put the 25 mill back in place? Kenny's rookie contract for an allegedly NFL draft pick was the key. Wilson for vet minimum is why he's here. They knew K.P. wasn't the answer unless mediocrity was the question.
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With K.P.'s flaws and attitude, he won't be in the league in 5 years. He's gonna be firmly on the bench in Philly.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
Please share some of what you're smoking if you think the 2023 Steelers plus Wilson are a SB team.
That's my point.
Smith's gotta get the guys to run his stuff. They have like half a credible OL and their two injuries from not stopping the run on defense.
They've got ONE WR they can have faith in getting open. Running the right plays and not melting down? Who knows.
I get that additional players are coming but they've got more holes than opportunity to fill them all.
And while the exaggerated arguments you're attempting to counter about Wilson are not mine; I do not believe he elevates a roster and covers up holes like prime Ben, Brady, or Mahomes.
Wilson can keep the machine from breaking down. But the machine isn't complete. And I don't think they'll be able to get all the parts assembled this year.
Even though you don’t think he will, would you concede that if RW returns to his form from 3-4 years ago and the Steelers shore up the O-line and WR positions that they have a chance to compete for a championship? I know it’s hard for you to answer a simple yes or no, but could you try?
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
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Originally Posted by
Voice of Reason
OK, so from all I'm hearing about the situation, here is the summary of what happened:
Tomlin: "OK Kenny, forget about that promise I made to you about a fair competition. We're screwing you again with this Wilson situation. And you're gonna sit there and like it."
Kenny: "Like hell I am."
Tomlin: "What? You dare to talk back to me after I got done screwing you? That just shows what a horrible person you are. OK, just for that we're gonna make sure we trade you to a team where you have no chance to start, even if we have to hurt ourselves by taking less than we could have gotten from some team that really wanted you and would have given you a chance. That'll teach you."
So the bottom line now is that the two QB's that Tomlin screwed over have been set up as scapegoats and shown the door, while the coach who screwed them over stays. Whether you believe this or not, up until now my problems with Tomlin haven't been personal but were just related to his poor record, and in the unlikely event that Tomlin would have righted the ship and started winning playoff games and making the Steelers into a legitimate Super Bowl contender again I would have happily cheered his success and admitted I was wrong about him. But now, after seeing the petulant and vindictive way he handled the two QB's he should have been apologizing to for his own failed coaching, I truly despise the man.
As for Pickett, like Rudolph he is in the long run much better off by getting away from Tomlin. The only question is whether Tomlin's mishandling of him has damaged his reputation so much that he will never be given a legitimate chance. If he does get that chance, with a coach who actually knows what he's doing as far as developing quarterbacks, I expect Pickett to make the most of that chance and show the Kenny-bashers, whether they be in the locker room or in the media or on this board, just how wrong they were.
You covered all your bases. So if he's not even in the league in 5 years, it'll be Tomlin and Canada's fault?
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
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Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
Even though you don’t think he will, would you concede that if RW returns to his form from 3-4 years ago and the Steelers shore up the O-line and WR positions that they have a chance to compete for a championship? I know it’s hard for you to answer a simple yes or no, but could you try?
Sure. If Wilson plays like an MVP.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mojouw
Sure. If Wilson plays like an MVP.
Or if Fields does…lol.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Did Kenny post anything similar? It was a very classy gesture by Fields.
https://i.postimg.cc/pXZBd9XG/IMG-8625.jpg
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
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Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
Nope. But then again, Fields didn't leave Chicago on ugly terms.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Edman
Nope. But then again, Fields didn't leave Chicago on ugly terms.
It was only ugly for Kenny because he made it ugly. Fields got jilted just like Kenny. But Fields took the high road.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
It was only ugly for Kenny because he made it ugly. Fields got jilted just like Kenny. But Fields took the high road.
Fields got jilted, but I don't think he legitimately hated his head coach.
Kenny's relationship with Tomlin was probably just that toxic by this point. Notice Mason R. didn't say bye either.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluecoat96
I don't know if it's a matter of them making personnel decisions, but rather them simply advocating for Russ to come to the Steelers. I'd imagine that happens a lot with free agents around the league. It could have been the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" for Kenny. In truth, I have no clue. Lol
Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk
Once again, I love both Cam and TJ, but rather than worrying about who was going to quarterback the offense their time would have been better spent worrying about how to get the defense they belong to to start making some stops on third downs once in a while.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Edman
I hope I'm wrong, but hot damn did Tomlin and Khan really bungle this.
Yep. Big time. They just plain gave away a potentially very good young QB because Tomlin got pissed that Kenny dared to object to his master plan.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penglose
You covered all your bases. So if he's not even in the league in 5 years, it'll be Tomlin and Canada's fault?
I think in the long run you're going to be surprised at how this all turns out.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Edman
Fields got jilted, but I don't think he legitimately hated his head coach.
Kenny's relationship with Tomlin was probably just that toxic by this point. Notice Mason R. didn't say bye either.
I think you’re projecting your feelings towards Tomlin on Pickett.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Edman
Nope. But then again, Fields didn't leave Chicago on ugly terms.
should Kenny be mad at you for anything ? then why do you not deserve a thank you...you didnt run him out of town he did that to himself starting last year by being a little whiney bitch and refusing to dress and be Masons backup , he did it again the other day when he pitched a fit that Wilson was here and decided he didnt want to compete to play so demanded a trade .... he got what he wanted , now he is a member of his childhood team as you know the backup because he wont be competing with Hurts for the job .....( nor should he be )
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
Was Kenny in Pittsburgh long enough for that? I would've expected something from Rudolph before I expected something from Kenny especially how Kenny was done...he has some pent up feelings about how he was handled. I don't think Fields has those same feelings.
Come to think of it, did Ben pen something like that when he retired?
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesertSteel
It was only ugly for Kenny because he made it ugly. Fields got jilted just like Kenny. But Fields took the high road.
^^^THIS^^^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
lipps83
So now they are left with an aging veteran and nobody else, with no long term plan in place.
What a disaster.
This aged well.
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Re: Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.
some of the stuff coming out about kenny he seems VERY entitled life is going to suck for him in philly holding a clip board
