Fire Canada

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

see thats a large part of the problem they cant Identify what a good offensive coordinator is supposed to look like ...

they snagged Canada and he wasn't a top tier guy at the college ranks

now they bring in this other guy from the college ranks and he wasn't highly successful either ....

now instead of a blind man you have 2 blind men so essentially the blind leading the blind ...

with the amount of talent we supposedly have at the skill positions we don't need to reinvent the wheel or find the next Don Coryell hell we just need someone who is serviceable at the NFL level .

Ken Whisenhunt , Mike Mularkey , Chan Gailey even Todd Hailey any of those guys who all have been maligned at one time or the other would ALL be a monumental improvement from what we have now ...

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My first post, hey everybody!! I totally agree with your assessment and I will say this: As much as an abrasive personality that Todd Haley was I do think he is a damn good coordinator and Ben's best years statistically were under Haley cause his concepts did have route trees that can get guys open. Granted, we did have AB but Canada's offense seems to not account for any wrinkles to get guys/guys open and therefore every throw/catch is gonna be contested if there isn't pinpoint accuracy and Pickett is not at that point right now. Pickett IMHO is being wasted because of Canada and so are other guys.

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These offensive statistics are pretty alarming. I know a person can make the case that stats do not tell everything, but with the Steelers offense it has not passed the eye test in awhile, and the stats just re-enforce this:

Under Canada, the team has not scored over 20 points in 27 of his 36 games as offensive coordinator. They have scored more than 30 points just twice over those 36 games. Even more, in his first 36 games with the team, the Steelers have had zero games over 400 yards with Canada at the helm. The last time the team cracked the 400-yard mark was in their wild-card loss to the Cleveland Browns during the 2020 season.

I think I saw that every other team has gone over 400 yards at least three times during that same span.

he ran the same play 8 times for 1 completion, a couple of sacks, and a pick on Sunday.

He's gotta go.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

he ran the same play 8 times for 1 completion, a couple of sacks, and a pick on Sunday.

He's gotta go.

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THIS exactly

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

That’s not true at all. There are plenty of QB coaches or pass game coordinators that go on and be an OC somewhere. Unless they are going to be promoted within their own organization there’s plenty that will accept a job in Pittsburgh. You also have no substantial “evidence” that candidates “won’t come to Pittsburgh”. That’s just your theory but there’s no basis to it unless you know they’ve been looking and failed and that’s why Canada is still here?

Finding candidates is not a problem…the problem, like Dwins said, is finding the correct candidate and identifying that they can be a good OC…which they have not done in multiple attempts…

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You're just rewording what I am saying. I guess I am not being clear.

Here is one hypothetical based on recent NFL precedent:
If the Lions are good on offense again this year, everyone will want to hire their OC to fix their crappy offense. That guy is going to hold out until he gets the HC slot he wants - like Daboll did.

Now teams are going be like "Ok...who else on that staff can we get?". And they are going to want to get the QB coach (interestingly enough that is Mark Brunell!) or Passing Game coordinator. One of those guys is going to almost certainly get elevated by the Lions to replace the outgoing OC. So...now an NFL team is left with the #3 guy in the offensive organization. How good is that guy really? Maybe super-duper excellent. Maybe just awful. But you are going to be hiring someone who never called plays before. That is a risk.

The college ranks is where you can get a direct OC to OC transition, with the jump to the NFL being the "promotion". But many of the best college OC's just hold out to be come college head coaches.

The bottom line is that the Steelers next OC is most likely to be from one of three groups:

1. Rehabbing NFL Coaches: This is where they got Arians and Haley. Something has recently happened to take the shine of this type of coach and they need to go somewhere and rehab their reputation. It can work out. Or you can get Joe Lombardi or Brian Shcottenheimer.
2. Unknown Offensive Staffer from NFL Team: This is along the lines of what I speculated on above. Now with like 3 dozen Mkvay assistants it has worked out across the league. Other times, it just doesn't go all that well.
3. Unheralded College Guy: This is what they tried to do with Canada. They could go back to that well and hope they do better next time.

All I am saying is that the Steelers have a poor track record with OCs. And the likely scenarios are not without significant risk. The candidate they get is going to have a "flaw" because the guys without flaws are going to HC jobs. The question is how damning the flaw will be...

What if… Fire Canada, PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

You're just rewording what I am saying. I guess I am not being clear.

Here is one hypothetical based on recent NFL precedent:
If the Lions are good on offense again this year, everyone will want to hire their OC to fix their crappy offense. That guy is going to hold out until he gets the HC slot he wants - like Daboll did.

Now teams are going be like "Ok...who else on that staff can we get?". And they are going to want to get the QB coach (interestingly enough that is Mark Brunell!) or Passing Game coordinator. One of those guys is going to almost certainly get elevated by the Lions to replace the outgoing OC. So...now an NFL team is left with the #3 guy in the offensive organization. How good is that guy really? Maybe super-duper excellent. Maybe just awful. But you are going to be hiring someone who never called plays before. That is a risk.

The college ranks is where you can get a direct OC to OC transition, with the jump to the NFL being the "promotion". But many of the best college OC's just hold out to be come college head coaches.

The bottom line is that the Steelers next OC is most likely to be from one of three groups:

1. Rehabbing NFL Coaches: This is where they got Arians and Haley. Something has recently happened to take the shine of this type of coach and they need to go somewhere and rehab their reputation. It can work out. Or you can get Joe Lombardi or Brian Shcottenheimer.
2. Unknown Offensive Staffer from NFL Team: This is along the lines of what I speculated on above. Now with like 3 dozen Mkvay assistants it has worked out across the league. Other times, it just doesn't go all that well.
3. Unheralded College Guy: This is what they tried to do with Canada. They could go back to that well and hope they do better next time.

All I am saying is that the Steelers have a poor track record with OCs. And the likely scenarios are not without significant risk. The candidate they get is going to have a "flaw" because the guys without flaws are going to HC jobs. The question is how damning the flaw will be...

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Let’s agree we won’t get a world changing, super OC. Can we at least upgrade what we have to something that resembles NFL concepts? Even if our players can’t execute them, some ‘I can see what they were trying to do’ plays. The randomness of Canada’s play calls seems to suggest he’s guessing at this point.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

What if… Fire Canada, PLEASE.

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Let’s agree we won’t get a world changing, super OC. Can we at least upgrade what we have to something that resembles NFL concepts? Even if our players can’t execute them, some ‘I can see what they were trying to do’ plays. The randomness of Canada’s play calls seems to suggest he’s guessing at this point.

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Sure! I have no problem firing Canada. Working from the proposition that he is a dead man walking and will be gone at some point; I am trying to figure out how best to "guess" at what the next OC will look like.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Sure! I have no problem firing Canada. Working from the proposition that he is a dead man walking and will be gone at some point; I am trying to figure out how best to "guess" at what the next OC will look like.

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I think he’ll be an ex-player with some college HC experience. Possibly from one of the Colorado programs.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

he ran the same play 8 times for 1 completion, a couple of sacks, and a pick on Sunday.

He's gotta go.

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https://x.com/donched54/status/17013...1ad198FRo8jTGg

4 verts called on 3 and 8 from the 8 yard line. Creative as you can get right there.

Would have been better off kicking a field goal on 3rd down.

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Originally Posted by RunNGun

https://x.com/donched54/status/17013...1ad198FRo8jTGg

4 verts called on 3 and 8 from the 8 yard line. Creative as you can get right there.

Would have been better off kicking a field goal on 3rd down.

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I'm with you. Some of the play calling really is mindboggling. I have been hopeful that he could get better this season with more talent around Pickett and Kenny having more experience. It's too early to know everything, but it certainly wasn't a good start.

Kenny Pickett didn't play well which didn't help. He missed a bunch of throws and didn't see the field well. I have no idea if hitting his head early had an effect on him, but he didn't play well and the offensive line didn't play well. I don't like much of what I see from Canada, but I also try to be fair in evaluating players as well.

I am going to have to see 4-5 games before I think we get a better picture of what's going on and how much blame goes where. His play calling is horrific at times. That much can't be denied. He doesn't even seem to know how to attack a defense that is giving the offense a look that gives them problems by making adjustments. I mean, last season I was losing my mind because teams were using a lot of Cover 2 to take away the deep ball on the outside to try to limit Pickens and DJ. The best way to attack that scheme is to throw to the seams to get big plays that way.....and that part of the field was nonexistent.

It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in Canada, that's for sure. I hope they find a path to getting better and solving some issues.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

he ran the same play 8 times for 1 completion, a couple of sacks, and a pick on Sunday.

He's gotta go.

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awe inspiring ... I mean looking at the bright side thats just 1/8th of the snaps in the entire game we had on offense and since he has like 10 total plays and we barely ran the ball because we got in a hole quickly meaning its a wonder he didn't call that play 6- or 7 more times ...

sarcasm aside there is no excuse for this kind of shit yet Tomlin will ignore the Obvious (obviously) and Canada will live to screw up many more Sundays (and Mondays)

Honestly I like Tomlin as a person, but his job as the HC is to hire quality coordinators. He's never been able to put together a good staff, and if he won't get rid of canada, he needs to go as well.

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Originally Posted by DuckHodges

Honestly I like Tomlin as a person, but his job as the HC is to hire quality coordinators. He's never been able to put together a good staff, and if he won't get rid of canada, he needs to go as well.

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I hear you , its getting very hard to defend this.............

all that said maybe we are being to hard on Matt Canada ....

I mean after all has never had a losing season.

:couch:

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

all that said maybe we are being to hard on Matt Canada ....

I mean after all has never had a losing season.

:couch:

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I believe someone said Canada should be already looked at as a head coaching candidate after the preseason was over lol. That didn't age well, but I hope he does get hired by someone else as a HC. I would almost pay money to see that shit show and laugh at it.

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Originally Posted by DuckHodges

I believe someone said Canada should be already looked at as a head coaching candidate after the preseason was over lol. That didn't age well, but I hope he does get hired by someone else as a HC. I would almost pay money to see that shit show and laugh at it.

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I would pitch in my own $$ for his contract just to get him out of here

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

awe inspiring ... I mean looking at the bright side thats just 1/8th of the snaps in the entire game we had on offense and since he has like 10 total plays and we barely ran the ball because we got in a hole quickly meaning its a wonder he didn't call that play 6- or 7 more times ...

sarcasm aside there is no excuse for this kind of shit yet Tomlin will ignore the Obvious (obviously) and Canada will live to screw up many more Sundays (and Mondays)

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Didn’t think they had a small chance to win versus the Niners. All I wanted to see was a different offense and that didn’t occur…same trash as we saw last season and the one before and the one before…I never bought into keeping him…not even a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

You're just rewording what I am saying. I guess I am not being clear.

Here is one hypothetical based on recent NFL precedent:
If the Lions are good on offense again this year, everyone will want to hire their OC to fix their crappy offense. That guy is going to hold out until he gets the HC slot he wants - like Daboll did.

Now teams are going be like "Ok...who else on that staff can we get?". And they are going to want to get the QB coach (interestingly enough that is Mark Brunell!) or Passing Game coordinator. One of those guys is going to almost certainly get elevated by the Lions to replace the outgoing OC. So...now an NFL team is left with the #3 guy in the offensive organization. How good is that guy really? Maybe super-duper excellent. Maybe just awful. But you are going to be hiring someone who never called plays before. That is a risk.

The college ranks is where you can get a direct OC to OC transition, with the jump to the NFL being the "promotion". But many of the best college OC's just hold out to be come college head coaches.

The bottom line is that the Steelers next OC is most likely to be from one of three groups:

1. Rehabbing NFL Coaches: This is where they got Arians and Haley. Something has recently happened to take the shine of this type of coach and they need to go somewhere and rehab their reputation. It can work out. Or you can get Joe Lombardi or Brian Shcottenheimer.
2. Unknown Offensive Staffer from NFL Team: This is along the lines of what I speculated on above. Now with like 3 dozen Mkvay assistants it has worked out across the league. Other times, it just doesn't go all that well.
3. Unheralded College Guy: This is what they tried to do with Canada. They could go back to that well and hope they do better next time.

All I am saying is that the Steelers have a poor track record with OCs. And the likely scenarios are not without significant risk. The candidate they get is going to have a "flaw" because the guys without flaws are going to HC jobs. The question is how damning the flaw will be...

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I’m not sure the factuality, but I’d be willing to bet there are plenty of OCs that came into this league from other lesser positions and have done well. I’m almost positive that Shanahan was a QB Coach and then an OC at multiple teams. Like I said, you can find good coaches at any level of a team and they can succeed. Like you mentioned, the problem is the Steelers/Tomlin identifying that…which they clearly cannot. They have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league from top to bottom and that’s because Tomlin is too loyal and Rooney won’t step in.

"players love to play for coach Tomlin" well seems OCs would love to come here too

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Originally Posted by pczach

I'm with you. Some of the play calling really is mindboggling. I have been hopeful that he could get better this season with more talent around Pickett and Kenny having more experience. It's too early to know everything, but it certainly wasn't a good start.

Kenny Pickett didn't play well which didn't help. He missed a bunch of throws and didn't see the field well. I have no idea if hitting his head early had an effect on him, but he didn't play well and the offensive line didn't play well. I don't like much of what I see from Canada, but I also try to be fair in evaluating players as well.

I am going to have to see 4-5 games before I think we get a better picture of what's going on and how much blame goes where. His play calling is horrific at times. That much can't be denied. He doesn't even seem to know how to attack a defense that is giving the offense a look that gives them problems by making adjustments. I mean, last season I was losing my mind because teams were using a lot of Cover 2 to take away the deep ball on the outside to try to limit Pickens and DJ. The best way to attack that scheme is to throw to the seams to get big plays that way.....and that part of the field was nonexistent.

It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in Canada, that's for sure. I hope they find a path to getting better and solving some issues.

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Agreed. I'm still holding some optimism that he has a plan and this offense will eventually look like an NFL offense. However, we've been saying we can't keep affording slow starts for the past 3 years and it's been that way. Sooner or later something has to give.

I think the idea was Canada had a scheme that revolved around running the ball and controlling the clock based off what I've witnessed the past few years. It was a great idea with a team transitioning from a franchise QB to a rookie, but he's done everything but run the ball and control the clock with a short passing game. The running game is a joke and I'm willing to bet we have more 3 and outs than any other team in the NFL since Canada was hired.

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Originally Posted by RunNGun

I'm willing to bet we have more 3 and outs than any other team in the NFL since Canada was hired.

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I would love to see those numbers because it is probably true.

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Originally Posted by ShadesOfSteel1172

My first post, hey everybody!! I totally agree with your assessment and I will say this: As much as an abrasive personality that Todd Haley was I do think he is a damn good coordinator and Ben's best years statistically were under Haley cause his concepts did have route trees that can get guys open. Granted, we did have AB but Canada's offense seems to not account for any wrinkles to get guys/guys open and therefore every throw/catch is gonna be contested if there isn't pinpoint accuracy and Pickett is not at that point right now. Pickett IMHO is being wasted because of Canada and so are other guys.

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Welcome!
I would kill to have Todd Haley back.

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Originally Posted by vasteeler

Welcome!
I would kill to have Todd Haley back.

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the guy scores over 30 pts vs the #1 defense and gets fired for it. Biggest head scratcher imo. I don't care if Ben didn't like him, a coach's job isn't to be liked, it's to get results. A lot of the great coaches in history weren't necessarily liked by their players but they commanded respect.

Todd Haley's greatest weakness was the lack of a QB sneak in his playbook. Other than that. He was a legitimate NFL coordinator. The Steelers failed those years and it wasn't because of his offenses.

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Originally Posted by Edman

Todd Haley's greatest weakness was the lack of a QB sneak in his playbook. Other than that. He was a legitimate NFL coordinator. The Steelers failed those years and it wasn't because of his offenses.

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Charlie Batch explained on a post game show last year that one time the Steelers played a game in Washington, and Ben did a sneak and got injured and from that point on, they didn't do QB sneaks with Ben. Apparently it was a franchise-wide mandate.

I remember a lot of fans didn't like Haley's offense because it moved well between the 20's but bogged down in the red zone making the team settle for field goals. Guys on the board I used to frequent started calling field goals "THTDs", Todd Haley TouchDowns.

Canada still being employed is all on Rooney. He's too cheap to fire a coach under contract.

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Originally Posted by BlackAndGold

Canada still being employed is all on Rooney. He's too cheap to fire a coach under contract.

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That's just ridiculous. Can't call an organization that spends to the cap every year cheap. Many teams struggi to make the salary floor.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That's just ridiculous. Can't call an organization that spends to the cap every year cheap. Many teams struggi to make the salary floor.

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There is a reason why coaches that leave the team is when their contract expire. They do not fire coaches.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That's just ridiculous. Can't call an organization that spends to the cap every year cheap. Many teams struggi to make the salary floor.

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But maybe they feel that paying “extra coaches” is frivolous…therefore they are “too cheap” to pay them…unlike the Philadelphia Flyers who have about 13 “unemployed” coaches on their “staff” in some form or fashion…

Lots of “air quotes” in there…lol