No mosque at Ground Zero

what gets me the most about the whole situation is the symbolism. if the 9-11 attacks never happened, americans really couldnt care less about a giant mosqu going up... HOWEVER,

towers come down. monolith mosque goes up. the symbolism to the rest of the world is replacing an icon of capitalism, with an icon of islam. since it looks like noone can stop this (due to the U.S. being a FREE country) i only wish it could be delayed until the WTC site is developed and complete.

but this begs the question. how do we disallow muslims to purchase this land for their site? property value in downtown NYC isnt cheap. who the hell is the free enterprize capitalist who sold them the site in the first place? did they put making a buck and turning a profit ahead of nationalism and being a patriot?

if i owned the land, i would turn it into a junkyard, before i sold it for that purpose. then again, didnt we sell the empire state building to the chinese?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

but this begs the question. how do we disallow muslims to purchase this land for their site? property value in downtown NYC isnt cheap. who the hell is the free enterprize capitalist who sold them the site in the first place? did they put making a buck and turning a profit ahead of nationalism and being a patriot?

---

Where's your "keep your government hands off of my free trade" now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JonM229

Where's your "keep your government hands off of my free trade" now?

---

i would think many on the right would be vehemently supporting the sellers right to sell to whomever he pleased, especially when the great writers of our constitution specified a separation of church and state.

perhaps they feel it is not "across the board" and should be handled "case by case" (which would take a ton of BIG govt oversight and rulings).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i would think many on the right would be vehemently supporting the sellers right to sell to whomever he pleased, especially when the great writers of our constitution specified a separation of church and state.

---

Separation of church and state? What's that? I don't recall reading that in the Constitution. :wink02:

Thomas Jefferson wrote the following to a group of Baptists in Connecticut who were afraid of being persecuted by the state government, which was overwhemingly Congregationalist (Puritan):

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JonM229

Thomas Jefferson wrote the following to a group of Baptists in Connecticut who were afraid of being persecuted by the state government, which was overwhemingly Congregationalist (Puritan):

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

---

Still though it doesn't mean it's in our constitution. It's no where to be found. The wall was to prevent the govt. from getting involved with religious affairs, not keeping religious values out of govt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteelCityMan786

Still though it doesn't mean it's in our constitution. It's no where to be found. The wall was to prevent the govt. from getting involved with religious affairs, not keeping religious values out of govt.

---

i didnt say it was in our constitution, thank you.

wallace was fucking around.

now... back on topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i didnt say it was in our constitution, thank you.

wallace was fucking around.

now... back on topic.

---

:pop2:

At worst, this is yet another sign of America's perceived weakness. And another step in the supposed "muslimification" (totally made that up) that's already happened in Europe.

At best, it's the symbolism as mentioned above, and it's in extremely poor taste.

It's amazing that not everyone can see that, or refuse to acknowledge it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Patriot

Most muslims aren't terrorists. When you hear about 50 Iraqis being killed in Baghdad by a car bomb, remember they are probably muslims. Not all muslims would want to build a Mosque at ground zero either, so you can probably scrutinize this particular group of muslims, but muslims as a whole are just a different population of the globe.

---

I'm not disagreeing with you Pat. I would say MOST Muslims have no desire to build a mosque at GZ....its the one's pushing the matter that concern me. The whole of Ground Zero should be turned into a memorial park where nothing is built....but somehow I get the feeling that money rules. I think I know Shiite and Sunni Muslims very well, not from books or newspapers..but personal experience. If a mosque is built there, it will be a victory for ben laden and radical Islam.

I'm pretty sure it was in the hands of the NYC council to stop it by designating the building a historical site, why are we so upset about it if the freaking city council doesn't care?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteelersinCA

I'm pretty sure it was in the hands of the NYC council to stop it by designating the building a historical site, why are we so upset about it if the freaking city council doesn't care?

---

I think some people believe that the mosque will basically be an Islamic form of a cathedral. The mosque will not just be a place of worship, but will also be used as a community center, much like a Y (Warden knows all about those) or a JCC. Though I'm sure some would argue that a Muslim community center is just code for terrorist training camp. 9/11 was committed by Muslims, so no Muslim should even be allowed near Ground Zero.

This is what happens twice a week near Ground Zero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7hIL...eature=related

Why don't they put up a bronze statue of osama while they're at it. :monkey:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mach1

Why don't they put up a bronze statue of osama while they're at it. :monkey:

---

Shhhhh , dont give them any idea's

Dirka, Dirka, Mohammed Jihad...bitches!

:chuckle:

It seems as though we are using the US Constitution to defend an act that is in poor taste.

I don't in any way believe the Mosque would be a 'training camp for terrorists' by any means. It is simply nothing more than a slap in the face by Islamics who in some way got a little hint of satisfaction on 9/11. And this is to say "...now we're gonna build a Mosque here, bitches". I say HELL NO !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by venom

This is what happens twice a week near Ground Zero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7hILnHsNKE&feature=related

---

yeah....and we're gonna let 'em build a Mosque at Ground Zero ?

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...t-think-so.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43

yeah....and we're gonna let 'em build a Mosque at Ground Zero ?

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...t-think-so.jpg

---

lol

Quote:

---

Isn't Bloomberg a repub?

---

Quote:

---

Nope. He's a Dem.

---

You're both wrong he's an independent

What irks me about this whole thing is how left-wingers who don't like the constitution and ignore it on many issues all of a sudden state the constitution as a reason as to why this terroristic imam should build a mosque on ground zero. I guess the ACLU, Michael Bloomberg, and other elitists who jam political correctness down our throats and don't like the constitution only care about the constitution to protect muslims while they completely ignore it when it applies to christians and jews.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by st33lersguy

What irks me about this whole thing is how left-wingers who don't like the constitution and ignore it on many issues all of a sudden state the constitution as a reason as to why this terroristic imam should build a mosque on ground zero. I guess the ACLU, Michael Bloomberg, and other elitists who jam political correctness down our throats and don't like the constitution only care about the constitution to protect muslims while they completely ignore it when it applies to christians and jews.

---

You don't know the half of it. It hasn't been getting any attention, but there was a Greek Orthodox church that contained relics from St. Nicholas. It was crushed by the south tower and the city won't let them rebuild. I wish Fox News would call out NYC officials for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by st33lersguy

What irks me about this whole thing is how left-wingers who don't like the constitution and ignore it on many issues all of a sudden state the constitution as a reason as to why this terroristic imam should build a mosque on ground zero. I guess the ACLU, Michael Bloomberg, and other elitists who jam political correctness down our throats and don't like the constitution only care about the constitution to protect muslims while they completely ignore it when it applies to christians and jews.

---

what a coincidence.

what irks me about this whole thing is how right-wingers who preach capitalism to no end, now all of a sudden want to ignore the right to sale prime NYC real estate to muslims and their right (granted under our freedoms and liberties *theres that evil "lib" word*) to do whatever they want with it as they wish. :noidea:

has anyone bothered yet to find out who is responsible for the sale of this land? my stance on that is already clearly stated.

Now the media here is reporting that half the building belongs to Con Edison . Do the people have to buy them out ? They don't know whats going to happen now .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by st33lersguy

What irks me about this whole thing is how left-wingers who don't like the constitution and ignore it on many issues all of a sudden state the constitution as a reason as to why this terroristic imam should build a mosque on ground zero. I guess the ACLU, Michael Bloomberg, and other elitists who jam political correctness down our throats and don't like the constitution only care about the constitution to protect muslims while they completely ignore it when it applies to christians and jews.

---

.......And Americans

I'd sooner see the Nazi party set up shop at Ground zero than see a Mosque put there. The main difference as I see it between Nazi's and Muslims is that at least Nazi's treat their woman more fairly. Inflammatory? Yeah I guess so, but when I see what happened to those medical personell in Afghanistan it ignites my rage against this bastard religion.

Oh I know the Taliban isn't a real representation of the "religion of peace." Really? I know the Taiban's puported reason for executing these decent people is because they were promoting Christianity. Given their background ( the executed medical workers) the Taliban may have been right.There's a good chance those people were mixing in a dab of ministering with their medicine which to the Taliban warrants a death penatly. And you know what, it's also a capital crime in Egypt, Kuwait and many other so called progressive Muslim states to convert to or promote another religion over Islam to someone born to the religion.

There's is a perverted society where woman and people of other cultures are treated with open hostility. They're no better than Nazi's. Keep them to fuck away from ground zero!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

what a coincidence.

what irks me about this whole thing is how right-wingers who preach capitalism to no end, now all of a sudden want to ignore the right to sale prime NYC real estate to muslims and their right (granted under our freedoms and liberties *theres that evil "lib" word*) to do whatever they want with it as they wish. :noidea:

---

You don't see anything wrong with an imam who wants america to become sharia compliant and who won't consider Hamas a terrorist organization building a muslim mosque right next to ground zero a place where muslim jihadists blew up the twin towers and killed 3,000 americans and brought pain to their families?? This is a slap to the face to the families of the victims and america in general and signifies victory for terrorism because a muslim building is being constructed on top of a famous building of the western world blown up by muslim terrorists

although the mosque at ground zero disgusts me, and i find it an affront......if their is no true legal reason to stop it, then it will be built. the govt should not step in to stop this. it is not their place. now, protests, public opinion, other possible issues (funding, what not) can come into play, and should. but the reason the mosque should not be buit must not come from legal matters. again....it is disgusting, reprehensible, offensive, in poor taste, intently controversial, etc....but their must not be any legal issue with stopping it. that, in itself, goes against the Constitution.

One of the things that seperate we Americans from our furry muslim "friends" is our humor, and their lack of it...

http://libertypundits.net/article/gr...a-of-tolerance
Ground Queero: Greg Gutfeld’s New Cordoba Mosque Gay Bar: A Mecca Of Tolerance

Greg Gutfeld the host of Fox’s Redeye decided to fight for tolerance:

So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque near Ground Zero claim it’s all about strengthening the relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.

As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque – after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law – who can stop them?

Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I’ve decided to do the same thing.

I’m announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

This is not a joke. I’ve already spoken to a number of investors, who have pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and tolerance.

As you know, the Muslim faith doesn’t look kindly upon homosexuality, which is why I’m building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/u...omosexuals.gif

The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather keep their sexuality under wraps – but still want to dance.

Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up their center near Ground Zero, is no different than mine.

My place, however, will have better music.

i love red eye (hosted by greg)......good stuff vincie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by st33lersguy

You don't see anything wrong with an imam who wants america to become sharia compliant and who won't consider Hamas a terrorist organization building a muslim mosque right next to ground zero a place where muslim jihadists blew up the twin towers and killed 3,000 americans and brought pain to their families?? This is a slap to the face to the families of the victims and america in general and signifies victory for terrorism because a muslim building is being constructed on top of a famous building of the western world blown up by muslim terrorists

---

Plus they want to do some kind of groundbreaking or ribbon cutting on September 11. That tells you all you need to know--it's intended as an FU to America, not as a legitimate mosque.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Godfather

Plus they want to do some kind of groundbreaking or ribbon cutting on September 11. That tells you all you need to know--it's intended as an FU to America, not as a legitimate mosque.

---

As one who believes in reciprocity, I think we should test our next new warhead on mecca. And as tests must be conclusive, test another on medina.

What? :noidea:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Godfather

Plus they want to do some kind of groundbreaking or ribbon cutting on September 11. That tells you all you need to know--it's intended as an FU to America, not as a legitimate mosque.

---

In all seriousness, do you have a credible source that supports that? This is the first I'm hearing of it and I live around here. THAT would not be stood for, I can assure you of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheWarDen86

In all seriousness, do you have a credible source that supports that? This is the first I'm hearing of it and I live around here. THAT would not be stood for, I can assure you of that.

---

Same here . The news is not reporting that ( groundbreaking ) here .

"Incredibly, ground-breaking for the Ground Zero mosque is scheduled for Sept. 11 -- the anniversary of 9/11. Does it take much imagination to figure out how al-Jazeera and the militant Muslim world will greet that occurrence?"

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co.../14926731.html

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26172

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vincent

As one who believes in reciprocity, I think we should test our next new warhead on mecca. And as tests must be conclusive, test another on medina.

What? :noidea:

---

Why test? Send something we know that works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by st33lersguy

You don't see anything wrong with an imam who wants america to become sharia compliant and who won't consider Hamas a terrorist organization building a muslim mosque right next to ground zero a place where muslim jihadists blew up the twin towers and killed 3,000 americans and brought pain to their families?? This is a slap to the face to the families of the victims and america in general and signifies victory for terrorism because a muslim building is being constructed on top of a famous building of the western world blown up by muslim terrorists

---

who?

me?

is it even remotely possible that your are a late entry to this discussion and havent followed this thread in its entirety? because i have already clearly stated my OWN PERSONAL stance on the subject pages ago.

but if that isnt enough, subtracting raw emotion and looking at it from a legal standpoint, the below post sums up my view nicely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by urgle burgle

although the mosque at ground zero disgusts me, and i find it an affront......if their is no true legal reason to stop it, then it will be built. the govt should not step in to stop this. it is not their place. now, protests, public opinion, other possible issues (funding, what not) can come into play, and should. but the reason the mosque should not be buit must not come from legal matters. again....it is disgusting, reprehensible, offensive, in poor taste, intently controversial, etc....but their must not be any legal issue with stopping it. that, in itself, goes against the Constitution.

---

make no mistake, st33lersguy, that your reason for not wanting a mosque built on what should be final resting grounds is no greater than mine. FWIW i also dont advocate opening a sushi bar on top of the USS Arizona.

ANY inference that i am less american, or less of a patriot than you, i will take as a personal attack and suspect it will be dealt with accordingly.

(good post urgle....)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

what a coincidence.

what irks me about this whole thing is how right-wingers who preach capitalism to no end, now all of a sudden want to ignore the right to sale prime NYC real estate to muslims and their right (granted under our freedoms and liberties *theres that evil "lib" word*) to do whatever they want with it as they wish. :noidea:

has anyone bothered yet to find out who is responsible for the sale of this land? my stance on that is already clearly stated.

---

I think they can buy whatever they want, that doesn't preclude a zoning board from saying you can't build that HERE. ZBs take free will into hand all the time to make decisions about how cities and towns should be laid out. One major thing that sticks out for me here (in proving they are staking their victory) is that this is not a Muslim neighborhood nor is it very near one. It's a conqueror staking his flag on the soil of his victory, no more no less.

do ZB's also take into account free kickbacks and bribes?

this isnt as much a political issue with me as it is a religious one and the united states' God is the almighty dollar, not Jesus Christ (or mohammed or zeus).

i notice "where's the porn" is underneath your SN. perhaps our govt should take 'free will' into hand and outlaw that in regards to how the morality of this nation is laid out. :noidea:

(the roll of devils advocate is never an easy one).

I say let them build it ... and then let's blow it up!
I'm kidding of course (maybe).

Dates have symbolic importance to Muslims, so the fact that they plan to break ground on Sept. 11 shows their true intentions.

This is from Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, who are Muslims:

Quote:

---

New York currently boasts at least 30 mosques so it's not as if there is pressing need to find space for worshippers. The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.

The Koran commands Muslims to, "Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book" -- i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of "fitna"

---

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mi...#ixzz0wCjTM1Xz