Justin Fields case for QB1

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

If Justin Fields leaves for another team after this season, I will thank him for his production. But I will no longer care about what he does in the NFL unless he goes to a rival.

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I would feel that way about any player ...once they are gone they are not anyone I follow or care about ....

I am a fan of the team ....as Seinfeld would say ...I guess we cheer for the clothes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzfD...nnel=DaveFlynn

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

I would feel that way about any player ...once they are gone they are not anyone I follow or care about ....

I am a fan of the team ....as Seinfeld would say ...I guess we cheer for the clothes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzfDTaGc5EU&ab_channel=DaveFlynn

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I still root for James Conner. He got hurt here a lot so it was the right decision to let him go. But you had to like the guy. But the other 99.9%.....

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

If Justin Fields leaves for another team after this season, I will thank him for his production. But I will no longer care about what he does in the NFL unless he goes to a rival.

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Same.

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

I would feel that way about any player ...once they are gone they are not anyone I follow or care about ....

I am a fan of the team ....as Seinfeld would say ...I guess we cheer for the clothes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzfDTaGc5EU&ab_channel=DaveFlynn

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This for me also.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

This was not you then: "The dreaded highlights, cant mention those. Even though they do give you an idea of how the Qb is making plays; under duress or not, how tight the windows are or the number of highlights per game. About stats, one important item is CAY, completed air yards."

I am just trying to follow your chain of logic here. You threw out CAY as an important stat....and now you are saying that what you really meant was total passing yards. Is that correct? Why bring up CAY then at all?

I am going to make the leap that you are focused on scoring against quality defenses. Ok. I am not going to go game by game for the 2023 Broncos but I will point out the following:
1. Denver was 23/32 in first half points in 2023.
2. Denver was 13/32 in second half points in 2023.
3. Denver was 2nd in fourth quarter points in 2023.
4. Denver only won 8 games in 2023.

That leads to the conclusion that Russell Wilson racked up a big portion of yards/points in games his team was losing after the half and during 4th quarter garbage time.

Interestingly, Fields goes the other way. Higher in the rankings during the first half and fades in the second half and drops in the 4th quarter. Leads me to believe that as teams made adjustments to what Chicago was doing, he ran out of answers.

I am not sure there is much of basis for "by all accounts" Wilson was better last year. Who is making these accounts? Where is that evaluation coming from? I have read, watched, and listened to plenty of folks making the exact opposite account.

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of course Wilson was better than Fields last year. I don't know who your listening too. Sounds like whoever is making that claim is mixing the Fields this year and transposing him to 2023. Go to the team forums from last year, watch the games, there is no way Fields was better than Wilson in 2023.

Wilson was ranked higher in the following last year

1. Total yards
2. TD's
3. QB Rating - RW Ranked 8th Fields ranked 22.
4. Wilson edged Fields in QBR as well
5. in terms of on target percent or accuracy Wilson was way ahead of Fields

and since you keep bringing it up and are so fascinated by it: CAY - total completion air yards Wilson and Fields were about the same in 2023.

And you mentioned Wilson ranking higher in second half points and assumed he was inflating his stats in garbage time but you fail to mention that Wilson had 4 - 4th quarter comebacks (the leader for 2023) and seven come from behind wins on a LOUSY broncos team. Fields had one 4th quarter comeback.

No doubt Fields is playing better this year compared to last, but calling him better than Wilson last year is to me a case of being too high on the Fields hype. Actually i think his performance while ok to good (for 4 weeks) has got a bit too much hype connected to it and i think it may cost us the chance at a playoff run. I think Wilson would fare better down the stretch. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson is traded, i'm sure he's not happy about this situation (by what I'm hearing), but hey, unhappy QB's seem to becoming a trend around here.

Wilson isn’t happy about this situation? Meaning: Wilson being injured and the Steelers winning games with Justin Fields? [emoji38]

Would he be happier if he was injured and the Steelers were failing with Fields and in turn possibly failing miserably with Allen?

Russ looks as slow as 2021 Ben. Watch the videos. He hasn't been ready.

Also I have yet to see Russ being pissed. Post a link showing this please. And some old gm`s fantasy does not count

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

Wilson isn’t happy about this situation? Meaning: Wilson being injured and the Steelers winning games with Justin Fields? [emoji38]

Would he be happier if he was injured and the Steelers were failing with Fields and in turn possibly failing miserably with Allen?

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Yes! A few people on here would be happier if we were 1-3 and the quarterback room sucked. They could say I told you so and actually be right.

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Originally Posted by tube517

Russ looks as slow as 2021 Ben. Watch the videos. He hasn't been ready.

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Originally Posted by tube517

Also I have yet to see Russ being pissed. Post a link showing this please. And some old gm`s fantasy does not count

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk

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Plus, Gerry Dulac said he’s been healthy enough to play for weeks.

whoops I mistook this for a Fields thread , my bad

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

whoops I mistook this for a Fields thread , my bad

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If it's a thread about Fields making a case for QB1, then it's fair to discuss the competition for the position.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Plus, Gerry Dulac said he’s been healthy enough to play for weeks.

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The video doesn't lie. Dulac does [emoji38] or is senile

Sent from my SM-F731U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

of course Wilson was better than Fields last year. I don't know who your listening too. Sounds like whoever is making that claim is mixing the Fields this year and transposing him to 2023. Go to the team forums from last year, watch the games, there is no way Fields was better than Wilson in 2023.

Wilson was ranked higher in the following last year

1. Total yards
2. TD's
3. QB Rating - RW Ranked 8th Fields ranked 22.
4. Wilson edged Fields in QBR as well
5. in terms of on target percent or accuracy Wilson was way ahead of Fields

and since you keep bringing it up and are so fascinated by it: CAY - total completion air yards Wilson and Fields were about the same in 2023.

And you mentioned Wilson ranking higher in second half points and assumed he was inflating his stats in garbage time but you fail to mention that Wilson had 4 - 4th quarter comebacks (the leader for 2023) and seven come from behind wins on a LOUSY broncos team. Fields had one 4th quarter comeback.

No doubt Fields is playing better this year compared to last, but calling him better than Wilson last year is to me a case of being too high on the Fields hype. Actually i think his performance while ok to good (for 4 weeks) has got a bit too much hype connected to it and i think it may cost us the chance at a playoff run. I think Wilson would fare better down the stretch. I wouldn't be surprised if Wilson is traded, i'm sure he's not happy about this situation (by what I'm hearing), but hey, unhappy QB's seem to becoming a trend around here.

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I never brought up CAY. You did. I have quoted your post twice now. I won't do it a third time.

Fields was at 5.8. Wilson was at 4.6. That is not almost the same. It as large a separation than there is between Fields and the top of the list.

So basically you got pissed that people don't agree with your opinion. Then claimed a specific state was important in judging QBs. Then when that stat didn't support your opinion....you have spun a totally different tale?

Maybe do your research first next time? Just saying.

I have no problem believing that it is totally possible that Wilson is a better QB that Fields. Just not for the reasons you were originally claiming - throwing deep more often and more accurately and something about CAY that you never finished. If you want to have a discussion about reading defenses better, being more experienced, and having more comebacks....okay....now you may be on to something.

Shame on Bill Cowher for not Benching Ben his rookie year once Tommy Maddox was able to play , Maddox was older , more experienced , had won the job in training camp , and likely at that stage of his career could read defenses better yet for whatever reason Cowher stayed with the future and current hot hand ... geeze what was he thinking

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

Shame on Bill Cowher for not Benching Ben his rookie year once Tommy Maddox was able to play , Maddox was older , more experienced , had won the job in training camp , and likely at that stage of his career could read defenses better yet for whatever reason Cowher stayed with the future and current hot hand ... geeze what was he thinking

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FIRE Cowher!!!

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

Shame on Bill Cowher for not Benching Ben his rookie year once Tommy Maddox was able to play , Maddox was older , more experienced , had won the job in training camp , and likely at that stage of his career could read defenses better yet for whatever reason Cowher stayed with the future and current hot hand ... geeze what was he thinking

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Why do people have such a hard time understanding that we want to see Wilson BECAUSE HE'S WON A SUPER BOWL!!!!!! (And been to two of them.) Did Tommy Maddox win a super bowl? NO! So is this a good analogy? NO!

Also, by the time Ben came into the game, we had already seen what Tommy looked like in a Steeler uniform. We do not know what Russ looks like in a Steeler uniform.

Well, okay, we know what he looks like, just not how he looks on the field with Arthur Smith as his OC.

Also, this analogy means you're saying that Fields is as good as Ben was which I find highly doubtful.

Dude! It was OVER 10 YEARS AGO!!!

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Dude! It was OVER 10 YEARS AGO!!!

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So what? I'd like to see what Russ still has.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I never brought up CAY. You did. I have quoted your post twice now. I won't do it a third time.

Fields was at 5.8. Wilson was at 4.6. That is not almost the same. It as large a separation than there is between Fields and the top of the list.

So basically you got pissed that people don't agree with your opinion. Then claimed a specific state was important in judging QBs. Then when that stat didn't support your opinion....you have spun a totally different tale?

Maybe do your research first next time? Just saying.

I have no problem believing that it is totally possible that Wilson is a better QB that Fields. Just not for the reasons you were originally claiming - throwing deep more often and more accurately and something about CAY that you never finished. If you want to have a discussion about reading defenses better, being more experienced, and having more comebacks....okay....now you may be on to something.

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Your’e confusing CAY with CAY/comp. So Wilson’s completions on average were for shorter air yards than fields, but the totals which is what i was talking about are approximately the same. And you keep comparing this year’s Fields with last years Wilson. Thats not what im talking about. Im comparing the 2023 Versions of last year and to me there is no comparison.

this year we don’t know what type of Qb Wilson will be. He hasn’t played, we can only make an educated guess. The on target accuracy, ability to read defenses and big game experience are all in Wilson’s favor. I think the steelers are thinking long and hard about the same thing. I think they’re realizing that they have to at least give wilson a shot as he may be their best bet to make a playoff run.

im not upset im actually enjoying this. I find it kind of funny that Fields is getting this much kudos from some of you after four games against mediocre competition where he’s thrown a total of 3 TD’s. Its like we’ve forgotten what good Qb play really looks like.

Shouldn’t Wilson be fired?

I heard something about too many years between playoff wins means you need to get fired.

It will be 5 years this playoffs since Wilson last won a playoff game.

Also Roethlisberger has more recently started a playoff game than Wilson.

Maybe just call Ben?

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

Your’e confusing CAY with CAY/comp. So Wilson’s completions on average were for shorter air yards than fields, but the totals which is what i was talking about are approximately the same. And you keep comparing this year’s Fields with last years Wilson. Thats not what im talking about. Im comparing the 2023 Versions of last year and to me there is no comparison.

this year we don’t know what type of Qb Wilson will be. He hasn’t played, we can only make an educated guess. The on target accuracy, ability to read defenses and big game experience are all in Wilson’s favor. I think the steelers are thinking long and hard about the same thing. I think they’re realizing that they have to at least give wilson a shot as he may be their best bet to make a playoff run.

im not upset im actually enjoying this. I find it kind of funny that Fields is getting this much kudos from some of you after four games against mediocre competition where he’s thrown a total of 3 TD’s. Its like we’ve forgotten what good Qb play really looks like.

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I’ve only ever compared 2023 to 2023 stats for both players.

Again, you brought up a specific stat. Said it was important.

I pointed out that stat did not support 2023 Wilson being better than 2023 Fields.

You then changed what stat you wanted to look at.

Then changed it again now to a stat that doesn’t exist. There’s no such thing as “completed air yards/completion”. The completion bit is baked into the original stat.

I am trying to understand what it is you think you’re talking about. Because nothing you e posted has made any sense looking at the 2023 stats you brought up.

If you want to not talk about 2023 stats; that’s fine. But what you’ve posted so far has been confusing.

Honestly; it’s in interesting discussion to project either QB based on their 2023 performances.

I just want to understand what is the foundation pieces of any given projection so an apples to apples comparison can be discussed.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

So what? I'd like to see what Russ still has.

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Glad you are not running the team :)

this isnt about hey wonder what this would look like , the game is football and their business is winning per Tomlin

Tomlins winning percentage is 634

with Fields as his starter its 750

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I’ve only ever compared 2023 to 2023 stats for both players.

Again, you brought up a specific stat. Said it was important.

I pointed out that stat did not support 2023 Wilson being better than 2023 Fields.

You then changed what stat you wanted to look at.

Then changed it again now to a stat that doesn’t exist. There’s no such thing as “completed air yards/completion”. The completion bit is baked into the original stat.

I am trying to understand what it is you think you’re talking about. Because nothing you e posted has made any sense looking at the 2023 stats you brought up.

If you want to not talk about 2023 stats; that’s fine. But what you’ve posted so far has been confusing.

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CAY/comp look it up. Honestly this is turning out to be a competition with you. Seems you’re more concerned with making a big deal out of CAY to win an argument instead of trying to understand the point. Very dishonest way to argue. You’ve likewise ignored the other important stats like on target percent, yards, TD’s 4th quarter comebacks where Wilson excelled over Fields.

let me ask you a simple question and lets put this argument to rest.

who do you want in a playoff environment this year: Fields or Wilson, based on their latest performances.

I’d like to see the Steelers sign Brad Johnson and play him. He won a Super Bowl and could be better than Justin Fields. I heard the Commanders are going to sign Trent Dilfer and give him a few games just to see.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I’d like to see the Steelers sign Brad Johnson and play him. He won a Super Bowl and could be better than Justin Fields. I heard the Commanders are going to sign Trent Dilfer and give him a few games just to see.

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That settles it then.

We need to do whatever it takes to bring Terry Bradshaw back out of retirement.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...7AiG1R6RYRcQ&s

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

CAY/comp look it up. Honestly this is turning out to be a competition with you. Seems you’re more concerned with making a big deal out of CAY to win an argument instead of trying to understand the point. Very dishonest way to argue. You’ve likewise ignored the other important stats like on target percent, yards, TD’s 4th quarter comebacks where Wilson excelled over Fields.

let me ask you a simple question and lets put this argument to rest.

who do you want in a playoff environment this year: Fields or Wilson, based on their latest performances.

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I’m only trying to understand what you’ve been trying to say.

Every post you cite different sets of stats with no data points or links. Hard to follow.

I googled “completed air yards per completion “ and didn’t find anything.

Can you link to what you’re looking at?

Like I said, I’m genuinely interested in how you’re getting to where you’re getting. But I’m too confused to follow. Anything you can do to clarify is appreciated.

I realized I didn’t answer your question. I intended to do that.

I’m highly biased when it comes to quarterback. I’m always going to pick the bigger, faster guy who can throw the ball to the moon. This bias has repeatedly made me miss on evaluation of quarterbacks. But I’m stuck with it.

In 2024, I’m picking Fields based on everything I’ve seen to this point.

That could change based on future events.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

So what? I'd like to see what Russ still has.

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Then you might need to watch the team he signs with next year. I was set for Wilson too. But fresh data has changed my position. If Fields falters I’m fine with going to Wilson. But if Fields continues to improve, I’m sticking with him.

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

I would feel that way about any player ...once they are gone they are not anyone I follow or care about ....

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The guys who say they don't follow or care about Steeler players who are gone are the same guys who swamped this site with posts about Kenny Pickett's phantom "demotion" to 3rd string with the Eagles, and would swamp the site again with ten times more posts if Kenny ever got into a game with the Eagles and played poorly.

Hell, you still mention Kenny in the signature of every post you make. :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

Shame on Bill Cowher for not Benching Ben his rookie year once Tommy Maddox was able to play , Maddox was older , more experienced , had won the job in training camp , and likely at that stage of his career could read defenses better yet for whatever reason Cowher stayed with the future and current hot hand ... geeze what was he thinking

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Shouldn’t Wilson be fired?

I heard something about too many years between playoff wins means you need to get fired.

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I heard something about years between playoff wins means nothing as long as your players like to play for you and the reporters will eventually elect you to the Hall of Fame.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I’m only trying to understand what you’ve been trying to say.

Every post you cite different sets of stats with no data points or links. Hard to follow.

I googled “completed air yards per completion “ and didn’t find anything.

Can you link to what you’re looking at?

Like I said, I’m genuinely interested in how you’re getting to where you’re getting. But I’m too confused to follow. Anything you can do to clarify is appreciated.

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https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

Just fyi for the above. Majority of stats have Wilson ahead of Fields last year. Stats show he doesnt get rattled, hes got his high comeback percentage. His production is still good (Yds and TD’s) and he can make the simple play (on tgt percent). This is all based on last year. I realize a guy his age could fall off a cliff in terms of ability pretty quickly, but if our goal is a playoff run id still like to see what he’s got. Maybe Fields is the answer but not this year, its too soon for him to outdo guys like Mahomes and Allen, to say nothing of Stroud and LJ. If Fields continues to improve of course you re evaluate and roll with him for the rest of the year. I’d like to start seeing him push the ball downfield more and maybe run a little less.

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

Glad you are not running the team :)

this isnt about hey wonder what this would look like , the game is football and their business is winning per Tomlin

Tomlins winning percentage is 634

with Fields as his starter its 750

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It's not like I'm lobbying for some bum we've never heard of. Given Russ's resume is it really so hard to understand why I might want to see him play, why I might think it's possible he could be the better QB than Fields right now?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm all for playing the best QB we can find. If Terry Bradshaw, Trent Dilfer, or Brad Johnson can QB the Steelers right now better than anyone else we could get, then by all means sign them. I find it unlikely, though, that Bradshaw, Dilfer, or Johnson would be a better QB for us now than Wilson would, so I am going to continue to want to see Wilson.

And why are people comparing Wilson to guys who are too old or never were good? There is no one on this board that can prove that Wilson isn't our best QB right now.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Shouldn’t Wilson be fired?

I heard something about too many years between playoff wins means you need to get fired.

It will be 5 years this playoffs since Wilson last won a playoff game.

Also Roethlisberger has more recently started a playoff game than Wilson.

Maybe just call Ben?

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I'm sorry, could you provide Justin Fields's playoff record?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I'm sorry, could you provide Justin Fields's playoff record?

Thanks.

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Fields has won exactly the same number of playoff games Wilson has won the past 5 years: zero.

Anyone want to guess Wilson’s most recent playoff game completion percentage?


40.7.


Mason Rudolph last season against the Bills?

52.9%


Think Wilson has gotten better in 4 years?

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

Just fyi for the above. Majority of stats have Wilson ahead of Fields last year. Stats show he doesnt get rattled, hes got his high comeback percentage. His production is still good (Yds and TD’s) and he can make the simple play (on tgt percent). This is all based on last year. I realize a guy his age could fall off a cliff in terms of ability pretty quickly, but if our goal is a playoff run id still like to see what he’s got. Maybe Fields is the answer but not this year, its too soon for him to outdo guys like Mahomes and Allen, to say nothing of Stroud and LJ. If Fields continues to improve of course you re evaluate and roll with him for the rest of the year. I’d like to start seeing him push the ball downfield more and maybe run a little less.

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Weird. They call their stats the same names but use totally different ways of doing the math than Next Gen. Hence the confusion. The internet is dumb sometimes.

And to top it off...the two sources (PFR and Next Gen) are calling things the same name(s) and posting totally different numbers. Makes comparison between the sites almost impossible...which I suppose is the point. Keep everyone locked in to one site or the other.

Anyways....I do not think that Wilson would be playing any better right now than Fields currently is. I honestly think that Wilson is cooked and everyone knows it but him.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I'm sorry, could you provide Justin Fields's playoff record?

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So playoff records are important now? :yay3:

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Fields has won exactly the same number of playoff games Wilson has won the past 5 years: zero.

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actually though if the number is 5 years then , Fields has won ....

• 1st in Ohio State history in total offense in a bowl game: 427 yards (2021 Sugar Bowl vs. Clemson)
• 1st in Ohio State history in completions in a bowl game: 30 completions (2019 Fiesta Bowl vs. Clemson)
• 1st in Ohio State history in passing yards in a bowl game: 385 yards (2021 Sugar Bowl vs. Clemson)
• 1st in Ohio State history in touchdown passes in a bowl game: Six touchdowns (2021 Sugar Bowl vs. Clemson)
• 1st in Ohio State history in completion percentage in a season: 70.2 percent (2020)
• 1st in Ohio State history in passing efficiency in a season: 181.4 (2019)
• T-1st in Ohio State history in consecutive completions: 16 completions
• 2nd in Ohio State history in completion percentage in a game (min. 10 completions): 95.2 percent
• 2nd in Ohio State history in career completion percentage: 68.4 percent
• 2nd in Ohio State history in touchdown passes in a season: 41 touchdowns (2019)
• 2nd in Ohio State history in career touchdown passes: 63 touchdowns
• 2nd in Ohio State history in career passing yards per game: 244.2 yards
• 3rd in FBS history in career passing efficiency rating among players with 400-499 completions: 178.8
• 3rd in Ohio State history in passing yards in a season: 3,273 yards (2019)
• 3rd in Ohio State history in passing yards per game in a season: 262.5 yards (2020)
• 3rd in Ohio State history in career 200-yard passing games: 15 games
• T-3rd in Ohio State history in consecutive 100-yard passing games: 14 games
• T-8th in Ohio State history in passing yards in a game: 385 yards
• 10th in Ohio State history in career passing yards: 5,373 yards
• 21st in FBS history in a passing efficiency rating in a season (min. 15 attempts per game): 181.4

if he was in the 2025 NFL draft he would be the 1st over all pick