I know this is Steelers forum but it's off-season ... so who wins Superbowl? Who ya got?

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Um, I never said it did. But the Eagles thinking that Kenny was good enough to be the guy they were going to turn over the keys to if Hurts got injured means (a) that Kenny is a lot better than most of the people here thought he was, and (b) the idea of Kenny eventually developing into a good starting QB is not as far-fetched as most of the people here thought it was.

Deal with it, you geniuses. :boink:

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a) only means they thought he was a good backup QB . There is no evidence for b) one way or another.

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Originally Posted by oneforthetoe

I don't understand your logic here. Had Kenny not asked for a trade he almost certainly would have started more games in Pittsburgh due to Wilson's early season injuries. It would have been a chance to showcase his skills either to the Steelers or to another team that might sign him as a starter. No matter how you try and spin his decision being a smart one, playing in games is a better way to showcase your skill than sitting on the bench collecting a a Superbowl ring

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So Kenny was supposed to know last February that Wilson would injure himself in the first practice of training camp and be out six weeks, and that he (Kenny) would get this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play six games for a coach who had lost faith in him and already lied to him. Wow, was Kenny stupid to pass THAT up. :rolleyes:

Talk about an absence of logic. :boink:

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

So Kenny was supposed to know last February that Wilson would injure himself in the first practice of training camp and be out six weeks, and that he (Kenny) would get this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play six games for a coach who had lost faith in him and already lied to him. Wow, was Kenny stupid to pass THAT up. :rolleyes:

Talk about an absence of logic. :boink:

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Well, it would certainly be foreseeable that you would get more playing time backing up a 37-year-old QB than you would being traded to who knows where - ultimately to back up a near franchise qb.

I see your argument has modified now. It used to be that the Steelers gave up on Kenny too soon as a starter and that he escaped Pittsburgh in time to save his career as a starter. Now you seem to be arguing that he escaped Pittsburgh in time to be a backup and that somehow proves the Steelers wrong now- Always make sure you can declare victory in an argument even if you have to change the definition of victory
:whoo:

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

So Kenny was supposed to know last February that Wilson would injure himself in the first practice of training camp and be out six weeks, and that he (Kenny) would get this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play six games for a coach who had lost faith in him and already lied to him. Wow, was Kenny stupid to pass THAT up. :rolleyes:

Talk about an absence of logic. :boink:

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No, Kenny was supposed to take up the challenge of improving his play at QB and prove to the coaches that he is the better QB and take the position from Wilson. That was still possible.

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Originally Posted by oneforthetoe

I see your argument has modified now. It used to be that the Steelers gave up on Kenny too soon as a starter and that he escaped Pittsburgh in time to save his career as a starter. Now you seem to be arguing that he escaped Pittsburgh in time to be a backup and that somehow proves the Steelers wrong now- Always make sure you can declare victory in an argument even if you have to change the definition of victory
:whoo:

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Wrong again. I'm not changing my argument at all. I continue to believe that the Steelers gave up on Kenny too soon as a starter and that he escaped Pittsburgh for a chance to save his career as a starter. Notice that I replaced your incorrect attribution of "in time" with my actual opinion of "for a chance". Kenny would have never had another chance to be a starter if he had remained in Pittsburgh. His year in Philadelphia was the first step in getting that second chance. He learned from a much better set of coaches than he would have had in Pittsburgh, performed well in his limited time substituting for the injured Hurts, and got a close-up education on what it takes for a team to win the Super Bowl. All of these things will help him as he tries to overcome the way Tomlin's ineptitude ruined his reputation and as he tries to convince another team to give him a shot as a starter.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

No, Kenny was supposed to take up the challenge of improving his play at QB and prove to the coaches that he is the better QB and take the position from Wilson. That was still possible.

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Under Tomlin, there was no way in hell that was possible. If you believe it was, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Wrong again. I'm not changing my argument at all. I continue to believe that the Steelers gave up on Kenny too soon as a starter and that he escaped Pittsburgh for a chance to save his career as a starter. Notice that I replaced your incorrect attribution of "in time" with my actual opinion of "for a chance". Kenny would have never had another chance to be a starter if he had remained in Pittsburgh. His year in Philadelphia was the first step in getting that second chance. He learned from a much better set of coaches than he would have had in Pittsburgh, performed well in his limited time substituting for the injured Hurts, and got a close-up education on what it takes for a team to win the Super Bowl. All of these things will help him as he tries to overcome the way Tomlin's ineptitude ruined his reputation and as he tries to convince another team to give him a shot as a starter.

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Under Tomlin, there was no way in hell that was possible. If you believe it was, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.

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It was possible. No bridge-selling necessary.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Wrong again. I'm not changing my argument at all. I continue to believe that the Steelers gave up on Kenny too soon as a starter and that he escaped Pittsburgh for a chance to save his career as a starter. Notice that I replaced your incorrect attribution of "in time" with my actual opinion of "for a chance". Kenny would have never had another chance to be a starter if he had remained in Pittsburgh. His year in Philadelphia was the first step in getting that second chance. He learned from a much better set of coaches than he would have had in Pittsburgh, performed well in his limited time substituting for the injured Hurts, and got a close-up education on what it takes for a team to win the Super Bowl. All of these things will help him as he tries to overcome the way Tomlin's ineptitude ruined his reputation and as he tries to convince another team to give him a shot as a starter.

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Under Tomlin, there was no way in hell that was possible. If you believe it was, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.

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It is pure fantasy to think that Kenny is closer to being a starter backing up a franchise QB than he would be playing on a team without a permanent starter at QB. So, if he remains a backup the rest of his career (however long that is) I am sure you will spin that to be Tomlins fault as well. At least you are predictable.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

It was possible. No bridge-selling necessary.

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I'll let you have the whole structure for an initial deposit of $500 and monthly installments of $29.95.

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Originally Posted by oneforthetoe

It is pure fantasy to think that Kenny is closer to being a starter backing up a franchise QB than he would be playing on a team without a permanent starter at QB

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It is pure fantasy to think that Kenny is NOT closer to being a starter playing for ANY team not coached by Tomlin than he would be playing for a team coached by Tomlin.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I'll let you have the whole structure for an initial deposit of $500 and monthly installments of $29.95.

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It is pure fantasy to think that Kenny is NOT closer to being a starter playing for ANY team not coached by Tomlin than he would be playing for a team coached by Tomlin.

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So, what is the evidence that Tomlin cannot develop a franchise QB? Duck Hodges? No QB that has left the Steelers has developed into a quality starter with a new team. If Pickett develops into a quality starter over an extended period of time, then you might have an argument. However, we are not at that point.

Maybe Tomlin can't develop a quality starting qb, but the only solid evidence that he can't is the minds of Steelers' fans like yourself.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I'll let you have the whole structure for an initial deposit of $500 and monthly installments of $29.95.

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Let's say Kenny is nothing but a good soldier when he's with the Steelers, always doing what he's told with a smile on his face. When told Mason is going to keep playing into the playoffs after Kenny got hurt, Kenny smiles and wishes him well. When the Steelers sign Wilson and make him the starter, Kenny again smiles and wishes Wilson well. The Steelers keep Kenny and never sign Fields. Wilson gets injured in training camp. Kenny starts the first 6 games of the season. You don't think that if Kenny lights it up those 6 games that Tomlin wouldn't have kept him at starter? Of course he would have.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Let's say Kenny is nothing but a good soldier when he's with the Steelers, always doing what he's told with a smile on his face. When told Mason is going to keep playing into the playoffs after Kenny got hurt, Kenny smiles and wishes him well. When the Steelers sign Wilson and make him the starter, Kenny again smiles and wishes Wilson well. The Steelers keep Kenny and never sign Fields. Wilson gets injured in training camp. Kenny starts the first 6 games of the season. You don't think that if Kenny lights it up those 6 games that Tomlin wouldn't have kept him at starter? Of course he would have.

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That is very sound and reasonable argument. It will never work with those who have created their own narrative.

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Originally Posted by oneforthetoe

So, what is the evidence that Tomlin cannot develop a franchise QB?

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Everything that has happened regarding Steeler QB's in the last three years.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Let's say Kenny is nothing but a good soldier when he's with the Steelers, always doing what he's told with a smile on his face. When told Mason is going to keep playing into the playoffs after Kenny got hurt, Kenny smiles and wishes him well. When the Steelers sign Wilson and make him the starter, Kenny again smiles and wishes Wilson well. The Steelers keep Kenny and never sign Fields. Wilson gets injured in training camp. Kenny starts the first 6 games of the season. You don't think that if Kenny lights it up those 6 games that Tomlin wouldn't have kept him at starter? Of course he would have.

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You still don't get it. Tomlin had decided to make Kenny the scapegoat for his own mistakes in evaluating QB's and employing Matt Canada. That's why he brought in Wilson in the first place and set in motion the Kenny trade before Kenny even asked to be traded. By trading Kenny, Tomlin was essentially saying "Hey, it's not my fault that the offense was so bad in 2023, it was Kenny." Kenny could have been (and may have been) the best soldier ever in the history of good soldiers, but he was still going to be gone.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

You still don't get it. Tomlin had decided to make Kenny the scapegoat for his own mistakes in evaluating QB's and employing Matt Canada. That's why he brought in Wilson in the first place and set in motion the Kenny trade before Kenny even asked to be traded. By trading Kenny, Tomlin was essentially saying "Hey, it's not my fault that the offense was so bad in 2023, it was Kenny." Kenny could have been (and may have been) the best soldier ever in the history of good soldiers, but he was still going to be gone.

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And your evidence that all of this is what actually took place is where, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Everything that has happened regarding Steeler QB's in the last three years.

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But where is the evidence that any of those QB's are capable of being quality starters? What coaches are turning Mason Rudolph into a quality starter? And Kenny is incomplete with the arrow pointing flat at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

You still don't get it. Tomlin had decided to make Kenny the scapegoat for his own mistakes in evaluating QB's and employing Matt Canada. That's why he brought in Wilson in the first place and set in motion the Kenny trade before Kenny even asked to be traded. By trading Kenny, Tomlin was essentially saying "Hey, it's not my fault that the offense was so bad in 2023, it was Kenny." Kenny could have been (and may have been) the best soldier ever in the history of good soldiers, but he was still going to be gone.

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Tomlin brought in Wilson because Kenny wasn't playing well enough, but if Kenny puts in the work and is able to outplay Wilson, Kenny could have earned the job back.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Tomlin brought in Wilson because Kenny wasn't playing well enough

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Exactly the reaction Tomlin wanted from the fans and media when he traded Kenny. The fault wasn't Tomlin's for hiring Canada and not coaching well enough, it was Kenny's for not playing well enough, don't you see?

So what's the excuse for the failure of the "upgraded" QB room this past season?

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Exactly the reaction Tomlin wanted from the fans and media when he traded Kenny. The fault wasn't Tomlin's for hiring Canada and not coaching well enough, it was Kenny's for not playing well enough, don't you see?

So what's the excuse for the failure of the "upgraded" QB room this past season?

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Kenny isn't the guy. Russell not being the guy doesn't make Kenny any more the guy.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Kenny isn't the guy. Russell not being the guy doesn't make Kenny any more the guy.

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The point is, thanks to Tomlin, we still don't know if Kenny could have been the guy or not.

Let's put this this thread about who you got in the Super.Bowl on auto bump, so that Pickett can live forever more through it. Statue in the Burgh perhaps?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Let's say Kenny is nothing but a good soldier when he's with the Steelers, always doing what he's told with a smile on his face. When told Mason is going to keep playing into the playoffs after Kenny got hurt, Kenny smiles and wishes him well. When the Steelers sign Wilson and make him the starter, Kenny again smiles and wishes Wilson well. The Steelers keep Kenny and never sign Fields. Wilson gets injured in training camp. Kenny starts the first 6 games of the season. You don't think that if Kenny lights it up those 6 games that Tomlin wouldn't have kept him at starter? Of course he would have.

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We watched Wilson “light it up” vs the Bengals in the first game. Tomlin was uncomfortable with that shoot out so he game planned the second Bengals game to be low scoring and kept the ball out of Wilson’s hands.

Fields went 4-2 and even when Wilson struggled he never got anothrr
opportunity.

There is no such thing as being rewarded for lighting it up in a Tomlin offense because high scoring games make him uncomfortable. We would’ve seen 3 quarters of run run pass and asking Kenny to save us in the 4th quarter.

Kenny played sparingly last year for Philly but when he played he was given the opportunity to make
plays and he made a lot of them and clinched the division in a must win game.

Also, our offense STINKS.. and we have 1 WR and anytime Mike Williams made a play he went right back to the bench. You can’t thrive in a Steeler offense anymore. Those days are done.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Kenny isn't the guy. Russell not being the guy doesn't make Kenny any more the guy.

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Is Fields the guy? We don’t know because after going 4-2 we benched him.

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Originally Posted by feltdizz

We watched Wilson “light it up” vs the Bengals in the first game. Tomlin was uncomfortable with that shoot out so he game planned the second Bengals game to be low scoring and kept the ball out of Wilson’s hands.

Fields went 4-2 and even when Wilson struggled he never got anothrr
opportunity.

There is no such thing as being rewarded for lighting it up in a Tomlin offense because high scoring games make him uncomfortable. We would’ve seen 3 quarters of run run pass and asking Kenny to save us in the 4th quarter.

Kenny played sparingly last year for Philly but when he played he was given the opportunity to make
plays and he made a lot of them and clinched the division in a must win game.

Also, our offense STINKS.. and we have 1 WR and anytime Mike Williams made a play he went right back to the bench. You can’t thrive in a Steeler offense anymore. Those days are done.

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Is Fields the guy? We don’t know because after going 4-2 we benched him.

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I don't think Fields is the guy, but I guess we're going to give him another chance.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I don't think Fields is the guy, but I guess we're going to give him another chance.

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I don't know, I thought with the limited playing time he had, he looked better than moonball Russ.

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

I don't know, I thought with the limited playing time he had, he looked better than moonball Russ.

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Which is not the same as looking like a franchise quarterback that will lead us to a super bowl.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I don't think Fields is the guy, but I guess we're going to give him another chance.

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Maybe.. but I wouldn’t be surprised if Fields does a Kenny if we start flirting with other old ass vet QB’s.

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Originally Posted by feltdizz

Maybe.. but I wouldn’t be surprised if Fields does a Kenny if we start flirting with other old ass vet QB’s.

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If they do that and Fields has any brains he should ride the KP train too.