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I figured you would reply that way. I just don't agree. I also figure you are doing fine.... retired with a steady income? The country is going to have to just get through it or cease to exist. There is no possible way we can continue on this path and expect to survive. Either the virus gets you, or losing everything gets you. I'll take my chances with getting on with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
If you don't move with caution the virus is going to take over and you won't have any economy at all. That's the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
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Originally Posted by silver & black
Me too, with at least one of those choices you have a chance, the other, not so much.
The economy hasn't been completely shut down. All 3 of my children are working and so are their spouses, with one exception but he worked for Bose and they were in trouble already. Most of my grandchildren are working. Lots of people are still working.
So you're saying the rest of us that aren't are just supposed to shut up and take it. Fuck that dude, if you're not going to pay my mortgage, bills, car payments, etc. then get out of my way and let me take care of my family.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
I understand the the point, but there is also a point where caution is going to destroy the economy beyond turning it around. It's pretty much there now.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
Those that advocate staying shut down in order to contain the virus, don't seem to/want to acknowledge anything other than "the virus". What about the loss of peoples lives "because of" the shut down? What about the deaths because of no cancer treatment, no heart stents, suicides, drug and alcohol addictions, domestic violence, etc........? Does that not matter? should that not be included in "being cautious"? What good is controlling the virus if there is nothing left after the fact?
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Lots of people aren't... and they are dying on the vine.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
Fauci talks out of both sides of his ass.
https://i.ibb.co/1XqpghY/96378602-26...09857280-o.jpg
So just to be safe just keep everything locked down from here on out.
https://concit.org/flu-vaccines-the-ugly-facts/
That is still a statistically insignificant proportion of 330,000,000. Several million people die in this country every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by T&B fan
This entire exercise is taking place because someone figured out that if you use percentages for really small numbers ("COVID-19 cases jump 50% in X region!!" (from 12 cases to 18)) ... but you never use percentages for large-sounding numbers that are a tiny sliver of a much larger number ("0.01% of the population ANNIHILATED!")
People have no clue at all what the fuck a million actually is, let alone a hundred million, so it is completely lost on them how incredibly huge the third-most populous country in the world is. Give them any large-sounding number and they think their whole town will die, when really it would be like 1 or 2 people in the whole town, and they're both 80.
The real number of deaths where COVID-19 was a major factor, not just a placeholder where any minor illness likely would be fatal, has been estimated by the CDC as more like 10,000-15,000.
Look, I'm sorry they closed down the high school and you have nothing to do anymore. It's got to be really difficult. But it's ok, you'll make it through this. We're all in this together.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
Again, a lot of people think this is an either or type situation. Its open or close, black or white, freedom or tyranny. It isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
I don't want you to get the virus, I don't want you to lose everything, I don't want you to spread the virus to your family, neighbor, older people, immune compromised, etc. I think a lot of people that are in the "back to normal" camp are more in the "anti-shutdown" camp and sadly will not try and be careful not to spread the virus as things start to open up. That is the unfortunate part of this that I think we will see moving forward and more outbreaks will happen.
If people could agree that both caution and education is needed in order to resume activity ...and that resuming activities that will start some form of economic recovery is needed, while still respecting a degree of social distancing, hand washing, etc. so as not to spread the virus to others....I think the reopening of the economy would go better.
I agree with you. What I don't agree with is moving the goal post every week, to just out of reach. It's always "we are making progress".... while just keeping getting back to work out of reach for many of us. Dangling the carrot is going to lead to some serious consequences very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
I'm tired of Fauci. I'm tired of Birx. I'm tired of Mike DeWine and Amy Acton. I'm tired of sitting on my ass in front of this computer for hours every day. I'm tired of all the COVID-19 talking heads, non stop, 24/7 every damn day.
I know I'm not the the Lone Ranger, I'm just fed up with the whole thing. We did what they asked... we flattened the curve. They lied. It was always about STAYING shut down until they eradicate a virus that will never be eradicated.... but we will be eradicated if this country doesn't soon open up and get on with it.
Across the South during the first week of reopening, restaurants are down 80%. Hotels are basically non existent.
The economy isn’t going to come roaring back whenever shutdowns go away.
Meanwhile, state a federal governments are working to kick people off unemployment and the leader of the US Senate says no more assistance is coming. They bailed out their rich buddies and left town for 3 months.
This is what happens when their is a total failure of leadership and your government abandons you. Every other comparable place in the world has done this better and with national measures to ease economic suffering. Here, we got one round of funding for corporations. The House wants to forward a variety of packages focused on helping people pay their bills to the Senate and McConnell told them not to bother because he wouldn’t even allow a vote on it.
So if you’re angry and pissed off, remember it next time you vote. Maybe don’t vote for the candidate that is financially beholden to massive corporate donors, doesn’t believe in using public funds for individuals, and flees DC during a crisis.
hint hint ... that is what some of were arguing for from the beginning. But it got forced into an either/or by overzealous officials, many of whom had their hands forced by overzealous screaming internet morons. So we were left with complete black or white, freedom or tyranny. Note that this is the singular example of such measures being taken in modern history, which is for the very good reason that such measures should never be taken under any circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Unfortunately, the ongoing effect of all this is that the longer the boot is on everyone's neck, the less willing people will be to comply by taking reasonable precautions once the boot is off. A large percentage will say "Fuck you, I am done listening to you," out of resentment, and that number is growing every day it keeps up. That is simply human nature, right or wrong.
Ultimately, it will not matter what people do, other than take care to avoid exposing those who are particularly at risk. The one thing that could have caused the death rate to snowball into something worse was overloading the medical system, and it has now been proven that this disease simply is not dangerous enough to do that, even if left mostly unchecked. Great effort and expense was undertaken to mobilize additional resources, but it turned out the already-existing resources were not overloaded. No, it was not because of social distancing, it was in the WORST case, places where the disease ran rampant before any of that was implemented.
So you can do whatever you want - stay home, or go attend concerts - and in the end it is going to mean very little. We are going to end up in the same place as Sweden, and so are Denmark and Germany, and so are just about everyone else, just taking different routes to get there. It is going to run its course and the only thing that can reasonably be done is to protect the vulnerable. Careful reopening, reckless reopening, it doesn't matter much in the end. The good news is that, again, the extremely low death rate without medical treatment of any kind puts a hard cap on how bad it can get, which is to say not very bad.
We need to start flattening the unemployment and bankruptcy curve. Can't be in perpetual lock down and be expected to survive.
Maybe if Pelosi and her posse didn't add so much pork to the stimulus bill, it would get approved? Why is it necessary to add all the bullshit? Why can't it just be about the people and helping them? Why is all the extra crap added in? I know why, but I'm not going there... at least not in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
You're right.... the economy isn't going to come roaring back.... but it sure as hell won't ever come back if we don't open things up and get on with it!
Perhaps? But a Senate leadership that came to DC for like 3 days, confirmed a judge that was categorized as ridiculously unqualified by every legal association in the country, and left town without working a single thing that helps the average citizen is a totally failed government. Then has publicly stated, repeatedly, that the tap is turned off. There is not a single $$$ coming to a single American taxpayer, now or in the future, to help them through this totally unprecedented situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
They don't care about you and I. We don't write big enough campaign checks. We can wither and die for all they care. They only need a enough people to vote them into office in November. Pork or no Pork -- something is better than absolutely nothing. We, as a country, can survive stimulus bills and economic packages larded several times over with pork. Always have. Always will. We might not be able to survive a Federal government who stands by and does jack squat.
I keep hearing that one of the largest problems with re-opening the country is lack of tests. Know who got tested, along with their entire staff, while they were in town to do NOTHING for the American people -- all of Congress. Know who gets tested every day? The government leadership who says that this is just something we have to grit our teeth and get through and then assigns totally unqualified people to screw up simple tasks like using government dollars to buy PPE.
This is what it looks like when totally unqualified people are in charge and they do NOT have your or my interests anywhere near the top of their priority list. You have been abandoned by your government. Remember how that feels next time you vote. Remember how that feels next time some politician asks for your vote with the same partisan nonsense of a campaign message and a refusal to offer substantive answers regarding their actual plans once in office. I don't care what party you vote for. I don't care what issues you think are important. I don't care what solutions you think are best for this or that national problem. I just want you to remember what it feels like when a clown car full of people who are totally inept and have zero regard for the average American are left in charge when the crap hits the fan. I think, regardless of your personal views prior to this, that if feels pretty shitty to be clearly told by your government that only big ass corporations matter and average folk don't. Ever wonder why Target and Walmart can stay open, but the small business down the block selling similar things couldn't? Want to bet me it involves the words "lobbying", "PAC", and "campaign donations"?
"Never let a crisis go to waste." Did I get that quote right Democrats?
I am shocked by some of the shit that I hear people saying when I go out to the drugstore or the supermarket in the last week or so. Just random people doing will be storming around, and will walk right up to you saying "Enough of this Democrat political horseshit," "Fuck this shithead governor," "This state's government is out of control, fuck 'em all, heads better roll." Just regular people doing their shopping, not rednecks with confederate flag hats and Trump 2020 shirts.Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Hitman
This is in California, where normally people don't even think about saying anything negative about The Party to random strangers, because most of the time it's just going to get you an angry scowl or start an argument. They are going to recall the governor guaranteed. People are PISSED and no longer shy about saying so.
The pandemic is a demorats dream. Americans unhappy, unemployed and needing the nanny state to rescue them.
Yup. No one is happy, anywhere. I have friends and family in red and blue states. Everyone hates everyone now. We can argue until we are blue in the face about the specifics, but each level of government screwed the pooch on this one. Efforts exist across the nation to get people off of unemployment. Which is super screwed up because those $$$'s are not from taxpayers; they are from business that pay into the unemployment pool. So again, screw the little guy and benefit the big $$$ guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
Honestly, I don't care what party is in power where, just vote in people that actually want to work for the majority of voters. Not just their big $$$ campaign donor over-lords.
Yup!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach1
I'm guessing this should go to the soap box forum before it gets out of hand...lol.
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I can agree with you on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Glad to hear it! Honestly, no one is going to believe me because my individual political views are far from a secret, but I really do mean I don't actually care who is in power. All I want is leadership I can respect because it is actually attempting to make people's lives better through policy and law passage. I can't and won't speak to specific state level efforts, but much of recent federal efforts have only provided relief and benefit to big money.Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
I really hope that voters starting holding politicians feet to the fire during campaigns. Stop letting people win your vote because of how they make you feel. Start demanding they win your vote on what they are actually going to do. Then if (when?) they don't do it, vote them out.
I pretty much feel the same way... even though I'm sure my political leanings go against your's. It isn't like I've never voted for a Democrat over my lifetime...lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I hear people screaming about term limits all the time, and I agree with that...... but then they turn around and put the same dipshits back in office time after time. Ya gotta wonder................
Same here. I think we gotta figure a way to get the money out of it. I read somewhere once that like in a 4 year office term; you have like 90 days to govern. The rest is paying back favors, campaigning, or fundraising. Oh well...back to getting screwed over six ways to Sunday. :drink:Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
Right.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
We have a brain, time to use it. I know that has become outdated in America but lets see if we can remember back to the days when it was fashionable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/o...-immunity.htmlQuote:
Many sources of the nation’s strength have eroded.
By Thomas L. Friedman
Opinion Columnist
Credit...Damon Winter/The New York Times
If Joe Biden is looking for a bumper sticker for his campaign against Donald Trump, I’d suggest this one: “Make America Immune Again.”
This pandemic has both exposed and exacerbated the fact that over the last 20 years we as a country have weakened so many sources of our strength. We’ve simultaneously eroded our cognitive, ecological, economic, social, governance, public health and personal health immune systems — all the sources of resilience we need to get through this pandemic with the least damage to lives and livelihoods.
All these immune deficiencies are the logical outcome of how we’ve let ourselves go as a country, how we’ve let ourselves be dumb-as-we-wanna-be for so many years — devaluing science and reading, bashing public servants for political sport, turning politics into entertainment, not to mention adopting horrible eating habits that have left 40 percent of Americans obese.
Dumb-as-we-wanna-be is epitomized by the guy in Austin, Texas, who last week shoved a “park ranger into the water while the ranger was explaining to a crowd the need for social distancing,” as CNN reported.
Do you really think its moving the goalposts or that nobody could come out and say that this was likely going to take months rather than days to curtail the spread of a highly contagious virus that nobody really knows much about?Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
Fauci is just a scientist, the most accomplished in this field and has served under both Republican's and Democrat Presidents for 4 decades. I'm fine with him. Birx is just a coward that would not give her unbiased input for fear of retaliation. As for Governors and President, they have politicized the entire topic for the most part, whether they prioritize life or dollars...while a few are trying to walk the line of both.
The number of cases and the number of deaths isn't on the decline and its likely going to be 200,000 dead by December in the USA, given what is going to happen. I feel for everybody out there concerned for their finances and their health. I really don't see a full NFL season if much of one happening though.
Nobody lied. This was going to be a long haul from the get go. If you didn't realize that you lied to yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by silver & black
I was told almost 30 years ago that society has shifted to one of "rights and entitlements" rather than "duties and responsibilities", where it once was. I'm thankful that over that time I have used my brain(like you mention) and exercised my duties and responsibilities to my family, so that we are somewhat secure from this pandemic.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
Come on. You really think democrats are thrilled to be in the middle of a pandemic? Nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach1
That and people are lying to themselves if they think that the majority of the public did what was being asked. They didn't. People ignored guidelines left, right, and center and we still have spikes in infections and hospitalizations. Many of the recent hospitalizations self-report that they were "at home" and/or "following all guidelines". C'mon. Either this virus works totally differently than all other viruses ever or people are lying about their actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by tom444
All you have to do is read about places that were successful at this (and really at this point, pick almost ANYWHERE but here) and the common thread is that people actually did what they were told to do. Now they are back to work and back out in the world.
Poor leadership and a general public who thinks that an opinion entitles them to action and expertise and expert knowledge is worthless because "common sense" is all that anyone needs.
Glad to hear it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
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I just saw two people walk by my house with no masks on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Think people, think.