Red zone offense

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

Not necessarily. As an example, when Brady throws an INT in the Redzone, it's a bad play...but he's not winning games 13-9 against Cleveland because he can't put the ball in the endzone. Brady has 39 touchdowns this year, so the occasional RZ INT can be overcome. It's not on their OC, because the system and execution are there. The Steelers simply cannot put up points after reaching the Redzone. It's the same with the other successful offenses in the league.

We don't have pitchforks. We do believe that there is too much talent on this offense to see it struggle as much as it does. But, like I said above, if it's not on Arians, we as fans have completely overrated the players on offense.

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Don't think the subpar offensive line has anything to do with it? The fact that we cruise until we hit the redzone and can't blow anybody (and I mean anybody) off the ball once we get there has anything to do with it? It's all Arians' crappy playcalling? If it was all on the playcalling, we'd almost never see the redzone to begin with.

Turnovers.

Solve the turn over issue and 80% of the Red Zone issues will go with them.

How many drives in the red zone ended with a turnover?

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

Don't think the subpar offensive line has anything to do with it? The fact that we cruise until we hit the redzone and can't blow anybody (and I mean anybody) off the ball once we get there has anything to do with it? It's all Arians' crappy playcalling? If it was all on the playcalling, we'd almost never see the redzone to begin with.

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Are you saying that we might need a decent O line to establish a physical run game on short yardage?? Or to even make play action work??

Blasphemy, it sounds like......dare I say it......Cowher-ball.:faint:

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

Are you saying that we might need a decent O line to establish a physical run game on short yardage?? Or to even make play action work??

Blasphemy, it sounds like......dare I say it......Cowher-ball.:faint:

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I know we don't get stoned on four consecutive plays at about the 1/2-yard line by the freaking Browns if we did have a decent OL. Regardless of what play is called. I do know that much. That was ultimately blamed by many on Arian's idiocy as well, if I recall.

Another thing that kills me is when people scream "that dumbass Arians, why don't he use Heath more in the passing game around the goal line?" Uh, because he needs to stay at home to block, thanks to our craptastic OL, that's why.

It's not JUST the oline. It's also Ben. He's not been as accurate as of late. I can recall 5-6 passes inside the redzone this year where WR's were open and he just failed to get them the ball.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

I know we don't get stoned on four consecutive plays at about the 1/2-yard line by the freaking Browns if we did have a decent OL. Regardless of what play is called. I do know that much. That was ultimately blamed by many on Arian's idiocy as well, if I recall.

Another thing that kills me is when people scream "that dumbass Arians, why don't he use Heath more in the passing game around the goal line?" Uh, because he needs to stay at home to block, thanks to our craptastic OL, that's why.

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I'm not an Arians basher, but that particular series wasn't Bruce's best moment imo. As you said the Steelers don't have a good offensive line. Therefore taking your best playmakers off the field ( Brown and Wallace) and packing it in with a heavy formation made the Browns job much too easy. I'm ok with running, but get the Browns defense spread out, make them respect the possibility of an outside pass. And we did the exact same thing on a 3rd and 1 attempt this past game, which again failed. The 2001 Steelers could line up tight, tell you what the play call was, and still get the ball in the end zone. They had the horses up front to impose their will. This team doesn't, therefore we need to make the defense defend all possibilities. Too often we tip our hand, and it almost always fails when we do. That to me is the OC's fault.

But overall I still think Bruce has done a good job given the limitations this offensive line brings you.

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Originally Posted by suitanim

It's not JUST the oline. It's also Ben. He's not been as accurate as of late. I can recall 5-6 passes inside the redzone this year where WR's were open and he just failed to get them the ball.

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Also, sometimes Ben throws it to the endzone when he should check down and hit a guy in stride at the 5 that could take it into the endzone...and he checks out of running plays all the time.

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Originally Posted by zulater

I'm not an Arians basher, but that particular series wasn't Bruce's best moment imo. As you said the Steelers don't have a good offensive line. Therefore taking your best playmakers off the field ( Brown and Wallace) and packing it in with a heavy formation made the Browns job much too easy. I'm ok with running, but get the Browns defense spread out, make them respect the possibility of an outside pass. And we did the exact same thing on a 3rd and 1 attempt this past game, which again failed. The 2001 Steelers could line up tight, tell you what the play call was, and still get the ball in the end zone. They had the horses up front to impose their will. This team doesn't, therefore we need to make the defense defend all possibilities. Too often we tip our hand, and it almost always fails when we do. That to me is the OC's fault.

But overall I still think Bruce has done a good job given the limitations this offensive line brings you.

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I think it bears noting that Ben couldn't move, which also limited his options during that sequence. That happened not long after the high ankle sprain, which occurred during the same game.

Bottom line, is Arians a great OC? Nope. Could the Steelers do better in the OC department? Absolutely. But he certainly doesn't deserve the amount of flak he gets either.

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Originally Posted by suitanim

It's not JUST the oline. It's also Ben. He's not been as accurate as of late. I can recall 5-6 passes inside the redzone this year where WR's were open and he just failed to get them the ball.

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Had a few drops too. Cotchery should have caught one in the end zone this past week, and I'm not so sure Antonio Brown couldn't have caught one in the first half in the corner of the end zone as well, but it looked to be a bit harder of a chance.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

Don't think the subpar offensive line has anything to do with it? The fact that we cruise until we hit the redzone and can't blow anybody (and I mean anybody) off the ball once we get there has anything to do with it? It's all Arians' crappy playcalling? If it was all on the playcalling, we'd almost never see the redzone to begin with.

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Somehow this subpar offensive line works between the 20's. They have two 1000 yard receivers and nearly a 1000 running back. They have a QB that threw for 4000 yards, all the while playing with this subpar line. But...they can't score. Other than Randy Moss, none of the New England receivers arrived as stars, but the system they run not only makes them into outstanding receivers, but they produce touchdowns and beat teams like Cleveland pretty easily.

We all can handle breakdowns by the offense, but the consistent continual struggles in the same scenerios, is very telling.

The quote by Mendenhall in Steelerdude's post says it all.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

I think it bears noting that Ben couldn't move, which also limited his options during that sequence. That happened not long after the high ankle sprain, which occurred during the same game.

Bottom line, is Arians a great OC? Nope. Could the Steelers do better in the OC department? Absolutely. But he certainly doesn't deserve the amount of flak he gets either.

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I'm not saying we had to use play action. Simply lining up Brown and Wallace outside makes the safeties have to think. You also might have a linebacker drop into coverage to take away the passing lane with them in there, which in turn slows him down on run support.

Like I said, 2001, yeah man, line 'em tight, we'll blow you off the ball 8 out of 10 times. Now, not so much.

I also think Ben could have scrambled into the EZ on a couple occasions. I didn't want him trying that lately, but prior to his injury.

Anyway, the situation is like an onion, there are layers and layers to it, and you have to think critically and analyze the entire picture. My beef is with people who just reflexively knee-jerk and scapegoat Arians. It's just lazy, and sometimes downright stupid...

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

I know we don't get stoned on four consecutive plays at about the 1/2-yard line by the freaking Browns if we did have a decent OL. Regardless of what play is called. I do know that much. That was ultimately blamed by many on Arian's idiocy as well, if I recall.

Another thing that kills me is when people scream "that dumbass Arians, why don't he use Heath more in the passing game around the goal line?" Uh, because he needs to stay at home to block, thanks to our craptastic OL, that's why.

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You are right IMO, that playcalling is not the culprit when in that situation, but rather personnel. Without a decent lead blocker in the backfield its just man on man in the trenches and you can get stoned.

Its why guys like Vontae Leach, James Casey, Jim Kleinsasser, Jon Kuhn, Lousaka Polite, etc. can earn their paycheck on the goal line. Since we dont have a FB, I am all for putting a backup OG in there and slamming the ball home. At least then you can use play action to a TE with the threat of a short yardage run game.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

Somehow this subpar offensive line works between the 20's. They have two 1000 yard receivers and nearly a 1000 running back. They have a QB that threw for 4000 yards, all the while playing with this subpar line. But...they can't score. .

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This is EXACTLY why the Run n' Shoot offense didnt last in the NFL.

Put up tons of yardage and points between the 20 yard lines, but without a decent run game they could not score in short yardage. Still need to be able to play physical football in run game and not just bend, but dont break pass blocking.

All along I have said that I believe Arians is a good OC and a creative playcaller, but this has always been the aspect of his offenses that have been weak. We need to score from outside the red zone or go 4 wide and try to pass the ball in from the 10 yard line.

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Originally Posted by zulater

Anyone know what our redzone numbers are over the past 4-5 years? Just curious if this a trend or aberration?

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2007 ranked 7th at 59.32%
2008 ranked 14th at 59.93%
2009 ranked 22nd at 48.21%
2010 ranked 15th at 52.46%
2011 ranked 18th at 50.94%

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

It's also 100% incorrect. Nobody has said that. It's the staunch belief of the "Pitchfork and Torches" crowd that Arians is to blame for EVERYTHING, which is what is absurd. Ben throws a pick into heavy coverage? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Redman/Mendenhall loses a fumble? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Kemo commits a stupid penalty to kill a drive? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. It's NEVER the players' fault. Yet when something works, is Arians ever given so much as one iota of credit? Nope. When things work, it's because of the super duper awesomeness of our players and in spite of Arians the moron.

Another illustrative point is the fact that my point about Payton the offensive genius wanting extra practices against the Patriots in order to get more reps against an actual 3-4 defense went completely ignored. But then, it's not surprising either.

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nobody has said everything is the fault of arians. actually i see it more as arians' krishnas trying to find someone to blame other than arians. when things work it's because of arians. when things fail it's execution that's always the recipient of blame. personally, i believe everyone from the owner/FO to the coaches to the players are to blame.

as we all know running on 3rd and 5 and failing is the fault of the players, not the OC. running wide(rather than up the middle) against a small, fast defense is the fault of the players, not the OC. throwing 44 times on a snowy/windy day is the QB's fault, not the OC.