Steelers Decline 5th year option of Najee Harris

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

You didn't see through it, even when I laid it out for you on a platter. Does that mean you are drooling into a cup? :boink:

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I've never understood one of your posts. They are not about football. They are about your reconstructions of Machiavellian plots, palace intrigue, and grown men acting on their teenage girl feelings. Mostly read like soap operas that you've concocted in your head and share here at zero dark thirty in the morning.

In the current one it appears you have an explanation that requires the new GM to have an outsized or fragile ego enough that he needs to run off the draft picks of his predecessor. But only the bad ones? Why not just sell the owner on trading Watt and Highsmith as part of a rebuild? Or convince him to trade Pickens? Justify it as being too much of a head case and poisonous to the rest of the team.

I was and am the biggest supporter of Colbert you are likely to find on here. I always liked his approach and his ruthless logic when it came to picking players. But the last few years, he got backed into a corner and forced more than a few picks. They did not work out.

Finally, if Khan's ego was either large enough or fragile enough to drive the agenda you have seemingly assigned to him, how would he tolerate bringing in Weidel as basically a co-GM?

Your Steelers soap opera has more plot-holes than a Netflix original movie. You can do better. I believe in you.

Need better than 3.8 yards per carry to get that 5th year

A 3.9 career average, actually. Which really isn't too bad considering the high school offense and the worst OL the team has fielded in about 15 years he was forced to work with. Not to mention an anemic passing attack that struck fear into absolutely nobody.

However, when a team takes a RB in the first round, they really need to be getting a reincarnation of Walter Payton/Barry Sanders, and Harris isn't that either.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

A 3.9 career average, actually. Which really isn't too bad considering the high school offense and the worst OL the team has fielded in about 15 years he was forced to work with. Not to mention an anemic passing attack that struck fear into absolutely nobody.

However, when a team takes a RB in the first round, they really need to be getting a reincarnation of Walter Payton/Barry Sanders, and Harris isn't that either.

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A bit angsty there …would you say.:wink02:

This might be more about what Khan brings to the table in the triumvirate of GM, head coach and owner, as opposed to Khan just dominating the conversation. And I would throw Weidel in there on the GM side. The Steelers have usually had a three headed monster making the personnel decisions since the early 70's, with the exception of the mid -Cowher era where the GM was diminished.

Both Tomlin and Rooney are old school "players" coach/owner, where loyalty is the highest priority. Not that they are unwilling to cut a player, or not extend a player, when they are no longer capable of being an asset to the team, but loyalty often leads them to keep players around as their usefulness diminishes beyond their financial worth. This is not always bad way to do business. It's one of the reasons players want to play for the Steelers beyond just their man-love for Tomlin. You will get as fair a shake in Pittsburgh as you will anywhere in the NFL.

Colbert was also a "players" Gm, imo. So, basically towards the end of his career (which was still a great career overall) I'm thinking there was limited critical disagreement in the triumvirate. Sure, we heard stories that one of them would have preferred that Ben retired in 2021 but I wonder how much actual debate went on. I think Khan brings a more analytical (not necessarily analyitics themselves) to the discussions. That's why they are doing things that seem un-Steelers's like, I think.

We will see how it plays out over the years. Is it mostly Weidel? Will Khan mellow with the years? Will he continue to be the "Khan artist?" Time will tell but he will likely be their longer than Tomlin and maybe even Art as the Persident.

The more I think about it, the less I don’t understand this move.

Most durable back in the league. Only RB to post 3 straight 1000 yard seasons the past 3 years.

I wonder if his comments about RB market are in play?

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The more I think about it, the less I don’t understand this move.

Most durable back in the league. Only RB to post 3 straight 1000 yard seasons the past 3 years.

I wonder if his comments about RB market are in play?

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Interesting! Didn’t really think about that! It will be fun to see how it plays out. I’m a fan

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

Interesting! Didn’t really think about that! It will be fun to see how it plays out. I’m a fan

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I’ve always liked Harris as a player. I do need to acknowledge that I didn’t like the pick. And I said so, so I’ll continue to stand by that.

Be that as it may, I do believe that Harris got screwed in Canada’s offense maybe more than most.

I think in a better system he’d be a 12-1500 yard back with a ton of catches as well. Likely still not viewed as “spectacular” but certainly a bit better than current.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I’ve always liked Harris as a player. I do need to acknowledge that I didn’t like the pick. And I said so, so I’ll continue to stand by that.

Be that as it may, I do believe that Harris got screwed in Canada’s offense maybe more than most.

I think in a better system he’d be a 12-1500 yard back with a ton of catches as well. Likely still not viewed as “spectacular” but certainly a bit better than current.

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I appreciate the acknowledgement that you didnt like the pick.

I liked the Najee pick, but understand that RB doesnt need to be 1st round guy in the current NFL, but I liked his size, production, character and was tired of the Steelers trotting out chumps like Benny Snell and thinking that would help the offense run the ball.

I know you didn’t like…..but I was good with it. He is such a good ambassador for the Steelers……except for the RB thing…..immaturity…maybe.

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

I appreciate the acknowledgement that you didnt like the pick.

I liked the Najee pick, but understand that RB doesnt need to be 1st round guy in the current NFL, but I liked his size, production, character and was tired of the Steelers trotting out chumps like Benny Snell and thinking that would help the offense run the ball.

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Agreed. My gripe was the first round cost more than the player. And I’m not sure you could’ve got him outside the first round. So it’s a bit of a circular argument that only scratches my math nerd brain.

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

I know you didn’t like…..but I was good with it. He is such a good ambassador for the Steelers……except for the RB thing…..immaturity…maybe.

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Perhaps it is immature but at the same time he’s not wrong. Most teams funnel a lot of their offense through RB either by actual rushes or misdirection. And they’re refusing to pay for it.

It’s kinda weird. Demanding excellence and high usage at rock bottom prices. Kinda like safety.

Hard to feel sorry for guys making $3-12 million a year playing a game for 5 months a year.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I've never understood one of your posts

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Finally something we can agree upon. :drink:

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Originally Posted by oneforthetoe

It's one of the reasons players want to play for the Steelers beyond just their man-love for Tomlin. You will get as fair a shake in Pittsburgh as you will anywhere in the NFL

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Tell that to Pickett and Rudolph.

Only thing bad about Harris is his vision isn’t the greatest. That could also be a part of the offense he was in…

I’m excited to see all of these players in a real NFL offense opposed to what we saw. What would be really scary is if the results turn out the same under Smith as they did with Canada…yikes…

If Najee runs for 1500 they can franchise him, which is probably about the same $. But if he’s the same or declines, they can move on. No down side.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

What would be really scary is if the results turn out the same under Smith as they did with Canada…yikes…

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https://makeagif.com/i/WZATyp
https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-31-2013/WZATyp.gif

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

If Najee runs for 1500 they can franchise him, which is probably about the same $. But if he’s the same or declines, they can move on. No down side.

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franchise is around 12 and I think transition is 9?

But that can be slapped on and then negotiate a longer deal later…

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Hard to feel sorry for guys making $3-12 million a year playing a game for 5 months a year.

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I dont think anybody is feeling sorry for anybody. The NFL isnt like the real world where if I was a new grad from school and really good at what I did, that its mandated for 4 years that I get paid 30-50% less than somebody who graduated 3 years before I did.

Also, you know that being a pro athlete isnt a 5 month job, because the guys that treat it that way are often driving a UPS truck or applying to sell life insurance when they get released.

Honestly, Its a dismissive and negative position that I really didnt expect to come from you. Its more in the realm of something Steeldud would say. Got some Najee hate on now?

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

franchise is around 12 and I think transition is 9?

But that can be slapped on and then negotiate a longer deal later…

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I dont see them tagging him at all. Thats a lot of money that the Steelers dont normally throw around.

I think they either let him play out the year and then look to draft a RB next year and pair with Warren. OR work on an extension for a couple more years that works for both sides. If I was going to guess I say this is the final season of Harris in B&G.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

A 3.9 career average, actually. Which really isn't too bad considering the high school offense and the worst OL the team has fielded in about 15 years he was forced to work with. Not to mention an anemic passing attack that struck fear into absolutely nobody.

However, when a team takes a RB in the first round, they really need to be getting a reincarnation of Walter Payton/Barry Sanders, and Harris isn't that either.

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I like Najee and hope he stays.

Warren has a 5.1 average with the same shitty offense. Only weakness with Warren is he has fumbled five times in 2 years

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

https://makeagif.com/i/WZATyp
https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-31-2013/WZATyp.gif

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https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2l...vbkg/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson

I dont think anybody is feeling sorry for anybody. The NFL isnt like the real world where if I was a new grad from school and really good at what I did, that its mandated for 4 years that I get paid 30-50% less than somebody who graduated 3 years before I did.

Also, you know that being a pro athlete isnt a 5 month job, because the guys that treat it that way are often driving a UPS truck or applying to sell life insurance when they get released.

Honestly, Its a dismissive and negative position that I really didnt expect to come from you. Its more in the realm of something Steeldud would say. Got some Najee hate on now?

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My comment is in relation to RB's pay scale compared to other positions on the team. In one sense it seems unfair, but then I have to remind myself that Najee is setting himself up financially for a lifetime. That's reality, however it's taken.

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Originally Posted by tube517

I like Najee and hope he stays.

Warren has a 5.1 average with the same shitty offense. Only weakness with Warren is he has fumbled five times in 2 years

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk

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Warren is a much bigger liability in pass protection than Harris as well.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

Warren is a much bigger liability in pass protection than Harris as well.

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MUCH bigger…

All these years later and James Conner is still better than Najee. What a waste of a first round pick. They should have just extended Conner.

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/10/wa...s-performance/

While Harris is not the greatest RB since sliced bread or anything....this is pretty damning visual evidence on the OL and TEs. These dudes just are not good right now. Harris had no where to go.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/10/wa...s-performance/

While Harris is not the greatest RB since sliced bread or anything....this is pretty damning visual evidence on the OL and TEs. These dudes just are not good right now. Harris had no where to go.

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How long is this the excuse where in the same games other running backs are productive? By the time he gets to the whole it’s closed up. He’s a hesitant plodder. Is Cordarrel Patterson now Saquon Barkley?

I was glad when we got Najee even in the 1st cause when I watched him he was a beast running sweeps to the right for Bama. Now he seems to me to be a one trick pony, he's great if there is gaping holes and you can get him the ball in the open like the one pass last game. He's to slow out of the gate running up the middle and seems to want to run straight into defense players instead of trying to avoid them.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

How long is this the excuse where in the same games other running backs are productive? By the time he gets to the whole it’s closed up. He’s a hesitant plodder. Is Cordarrel Patterson now Saquon Barkley?

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Did you watch the video? Showed one of Patterson’s runs for contrast. He had a hole the size of Texas to run through.

I don’t care if they bench Harris tomorrow and cut him.

But the offensive line and TEs are a disaster right now.

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Originally Posted by vasteeler

I agree about the OL and tight ends . Can you explain to me then why Patterson was able to do so well with the same line. I'm not being combative, I just trust your input.

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I do not know. For whatever the reason on the one play that was highlighted in the video, Patterson had a massive hole to run through and was untouched for 5+ yards. The same can not be said for Harris.

I do not know....but I suspect that with Patterson in the game, teams are at least considering it is a pass play? Something is making them back off and the line be more effective blocking.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Did you watch the video? Showed one of Patterson’s runs for contrast. He had a hole the size of Texas to run through.

I don’t care if they bench Harris tomorrow and cut him.

But the offensive line and TEs are a disaster right now.

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There’s no need to watch it. I saw the game. And I’ve seen the movie 55 times now.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I do not know. For whatever the reason on the one play that was highlighted in the video, Patterson had a massive hole to run through and was untouched for 5+ yards. The same can not be said for Harris.

I do not know....but I suspect that with Patterson in the game, teams are at least considering it is a pass play? Something is making them back off and the line be more effective blocking.

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Sounds like they cherry picked Patrerson’s runs to find ONE where there was a big hole.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Did you watch the video? Showed one of Patterson’s runs for contrast. He had a hole the size of Texas to run through.

I don’t care if they bench Harris tomorrow and cut him.

But the offensive line and TEs are a disaster right now.

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Was that the case for all of Patterson's runs? I'm not one to study film so I'm just curious.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I do not know. For whatever the reason on the one play that was highlighted in the video, Patterson had a massive hole to run through and was untouched for 5+ yards. The same can not be said for Harris.

I do not know....but I suspect that with Patterson in the game, teams are at least considering it is a pass play? Something is making them back off and the line be more effective blocking.

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Thanks, I deleted the post just because I missed it you'd already answered the question.

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Originally Posted by Rocky Mtn.

Was that the case for all of Patterson's runs? I'm not one to study film so I'm just curious.

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I have no access to anything besides what others post to the internets.

It would be an interesting project for someone somewhere with ALL 22 access.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

There’s no need to watch it. I saw the game. And I’ve seen the movie 55 times now.

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Sounds like they cherry picked Patrerson’s runs to find ONE where there was a big hole.

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Ahh....the conspiracy to protect Harris and keep Patterson down?

Patterson only had 6 carries. Maybe he had blocking on all of them?

Maybe they call different plays with one guy versus the other?

Who knows. But until the OL blocks better down in and down out....the offense will struggle regardless of who is running the ball. Again...not a defense of Harris. But a statement that this is a piss poor offensive line right now.

Hopefully a combination of Moore/Seumalo/Frazier/McCormick/Jones can solidify and begin to excel.

I had stated at one time that I wasn't going to worry about this OL until we got to October. Just to give time for them to be together and learn each other and become a unit. October is here. Depending on Sunday night I may officially become worried. This is not looking good and it is not getting better. Injuries or whatever, it's the same result.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Ahh....the conspiracy to protect Harris and keep Patterson down?

Patterson only had 6 carries. Maybe he had blocking on all of them?

Maybe they call different plays with one guy versus the other?

Who knows. But until the OL blocks better down in and down out....the offense will struggle regardless of who is running the ball. Again...not a defense of Harris. But a statement that this is a piss poor offensive line right now.

Hopefully a combination of Moore/Seumalo/Frazier/McCormick/Jones can solidify and begin to excel.

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You can be a Najee apologist all you want, but I’ve watched him play 55 games, not one. And he’s looked pedestrian and less than his backup in all but 6-7 of them.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

You can be a Najee apologist all you want, but I’ve watched him play 55 games, not one. And he’s looked pedestrian and less than his backup in all but 6-7 of them.

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That is what you are not getting.

I am not taking up for Harris here.

It is possible for more than one thing to be true at the same time. I propose that:
1. Harris is just a guy and was way over-drafted because Colbert got desperate. Not a new position for myself or others to take.
2. Harris is not quick enough to do zone runes and outside stretch stuff.
3. The offensive line is not good.
4. Heyward and Friermuth can't block very well.

On field situations and game flow also is something to take into account. Are they running the same exact plays in the same situation? Defense personnel the same? All of that could make a big difference.

But it does look like Harris is slow to react a lot of times.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That is what you are not getting.

I am not taking up for Harris here.

It is possible for more than one thing to be true at the same time. I propose that:
1. Harris is just a guy and was way over-drafted because Colbert got desperate. Not a new position for myself or others to take.
2. Harris is not quick enough to do zone runes and outside stretch stuff.
3. The offensive line is not good.
4. Heyward and Friermuth can't block very well.

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It’s just too coincidental that the RB2 always gets through the hole and Najee can’t. It’s been going on his whole career. I’m not saying the o-line are great run blockers. But the evidence is damning on Najee.