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To let a good CB (maybe the best we had) go? they have to have a plan in mind (aside from a 32 yr old Peterson)
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they didn't want to re-sign him. This is ultimately more about Tomlin, Austin and their plan for the defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
I honestly think planA is Joey Porter Jr at 17. I also think planB is one of about 6 other CBs at 17 if JPjr is not still available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
I also think we need better Tackles. I don't think they want one as badly as I do. I feel that will be a round 2 or 3 pick. Signing Herbig has me hopeful anyway.
We re-signed Kazee but not Edmunds yet. I hope that is being negotiated. Otherwise a guy like Brian Branch or Jordan Battle could easily move into contention for an early draft pick. I think both would be excellent here.
Maybe we don't see a WR, TE, or RB drafted this year? I think one of those will be just because it's what we do. Plus, gotta give your young QB weapons. I think it will be WR if any.
With the new FA guard pickup Plan A looks reasonable (CB - JP-jr as the 1st pick and hopefully a LT with the 2nd pick).Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Agreed on WR, (not crazy about DJ) as for the others we have Warren backing up Najee and already a good TE set of PF, Gentry and Conner
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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
if we could trade DJ and use the pick / picks to replace him I would be ecstatic ...I only used plural as some seem to think he is worthy if that is a teams thought I welcome them to the bargaining table (only takes 1 )
they should shop him around. Someone might give us a good offer based on his physical talent, but his focus and concentration are not there half the time and he plays like a bone head, so that could keep the market for his services lukewarmQuote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
I think the Lions are building a very good team for next year. I would not be shocked if they win their division. The Packers lost Rodgers and I'm not sold on Jordan Love, the Vikings still have Cousins and the Bears are in full rebuild mode.
Basically a brand new secondary.Quote:
Originally Posted by EzraTank
I think the primary reason they didn't re-sign Sutton was the overall salary of the defense. The most expensive in the league. They needed to get cheaper and balance out so they are going with a cheap veteran and a high draft pick. Not terrible logic.
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Originally Posted by BlackAndGold
Letting him go was a huge mistake IMO.
I'll never understand the decision. He was playing fantastic last year and is in the middle of his prime. Sutton and JPJ could have held down the CB spots for the next few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
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Originally Posted by BlackAndGold
They are feeling it more now, with Joey Porter not playing and the bad injury to Trice as he looked so promising.
Add to that bringing in an old Patrick Peterson that isn't what he has been in his prime, he was clearly no longer the man coverage dynamo he was with the Vikings, and it was obvious to anyone paying attention that he could no longer hold up playing man.
Now, here they are with no Cam Sutton, very little Porter, and a version of Pat Pete that looks his age so far.
Another damned if you do, damned if you don't. Keep a veteran player and we're hanging on too long. Let one get away in FA and we shouldn't have let him go. Just one more complaint log to throw on the fire I guess.
Sutton was above average in Pittsburgh. He wasn’t great. His best days were as a nickel CB. Even if he were better, the way their defense is set up, he still wouldn’t look as good as he does in Detroit. Their pass defense in Pittsburgh has been just about as bad as the offense. If there’s no pass rush, the opposing team can throw all over this team.
I said I thought it was a mistake at the time they didn't want to pay Sutton and they signed Peterson for the same reason I am saying this now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
He's been getting better every year and he turned 28 years old in February. They basically replaced him with Patrick Peterson, who was 33 years old in July.
I don't really think that it is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. They damned themselves by signing a cornerback that is 33 years old instead of giving the money to a younger, better player. They could have given Sutton a 4-year deal and he would have completed that contract and would still be younger than Peterson is right now and would most likely still have cover skills at what would be a reasonable rate in 4 years.
They clearly want several things out of their outside CBs (length, ball skills, and the ability to press). Because of his size, they do not see Sutton as that kind of CB.
Ignore the age...but they replaced Sutton with a guy built in a lab to their specifications in Peterson. He was supposed to fill the gap until their vat grown CBs (Porter and Trice) came online.
It does not appear to have worked out, but the chain of reasoning is clear to see.
I think the other miscalculation was that Kazee and Neal could replace Edmunds. They have failed at that so far. And it makes our CBs look worse because MF can't just hangout at deep FS and make plays on the ball or clean up messes. He's often being moved down into the mix to do safety crap that Edmunds handled.
I know I am a broken record....but that was just a mistake....however I also strongly believe that Edmunds just didn't want to be here anymore and I am not sure $10 million per would have changed his mind.
The Steelers were never going to re-sign Sutton to a 4year deal. I am a bigger Sutton fan than most and I hated him leaving. Sutton wanted the longer contract. Edmunds wanted to leave. But that wasn’t my point. My point is the complaining and the Steelers can’t win with most fans whatever moves they make.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
We are thin at WR depth so they bring in Mims. Nothing but scoffs and barbs about the move. Monday morning QBs is one thing. This constant complaining is something else though.
I think you are selling Ike Taylor short. He was a true shutdown corner in his prime in my opinion. He just had hands of stone and could not catch the ball to get interceptions. If he could have he would have been a consistent pro-bowl/all-pro player I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
I was surprised that Sutton and Edmunds weren't re-signed. Usually the Steelers try and keep their homegrown talent. Sutton could play inside or outside and the Steelers usually keep those types of players that can do multiple roles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Edmunds seemed like he didn't want to be a Steeler so not much they could do. I wanted him to stay for selfish reasons. He went to Va Tech, my alma mater..
The Lions gave Sutton a 3yr/$33M contract with a $11M signing bonus and $22.5M guaranteed. The Steelers were not offering that, nor should they have. I liked Sutton from his draft and loved we got him. But he has not been a ‘blue chip’ defender and other guys needed to get paid. Unfortunately, we can’t give every player those type contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by tube517
Edmunds obviously just wanted out. Whatever his reasons he was finished here.
Sutton played at a very high level his last season here. He was getting better each season he played here....and ascending player. Sutton would have been the perfect CB to have, because he would have been able to play slot if needed with Porter here and maybe Trice getting time outside. Two phyiscal press corners with a real slot corner that can also play outside. I don't see a downside there. Besides, his contract would look like a bargain in four years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
They did pay other players...like Patrick Peterson. He got a 2-year $14 million contract. 7 mil a year for a 33 year old for two seasons.
Edmunds left because they offered him next to nothing the previous couple years when they didn't pick up his 5th year on his rookie deal. He played his last year for next to nothing. He wasn't doing it again and they pissed him off. The team was wrong about that as well because Minkah now has to play out of position because they no longer have the personnel to play as they did when Edmunds was here. Edmunds walked, and the SS position is weaker, and the FS position is weaker because Minkah is nowhere near the player he was in this role as he is as a single high S.
It's done, but what I just said is exactly what has happened.
A bargain in 4 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
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Originally Posted by Born2Steel
The salary keeps going up, and his contract and salary cap hit would not look so terrible in 4 years.
You ask that like you think Peterson's contract at $7 million per is saving money?
Ike Taylor was pretty close to a shut down corner with bad hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by dislocatedday
I didn't even bring up Peterson's contract. I showed what the Lions paid Sutton to also show that the Steelers were not going to pay that. That is why he left, not because the Steelers just let him walk. I'm sure they made him an offer to keep him. They were paying him $4.5M/yr before that. The Lions just came in with a better offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
I'm comparing paying Peterson $7 mil a year compared to paying Cam Sutton $11 mil a year as a much younger player. I don't see how anyone can't bring up Peterson's contract when talking about Sutton. Peterson is basically replacing him for only $4 million less per season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
I'm saying the Steelers should have paid Sutton instead of paying Peterson. I said it when Sutton left and they signed Peterson.
I already knew and posted here that Peterson was no longer a man coverage corner. He was used mostly as a zone corner because that was all he could do effectively. They then draft Porter and Trice. Two big, physical press man cover corners that they plan to work in along with a 33 year old that can't play man? It never made sense to me.
That's why I believe they should have paid Sutton the money. It was a better fit, and I still think Sutton would have still been a good player in four seasons at 32 years old at what will be a reasonable number per inflation. That's all.
Because I was responding to Tubes post.
If you want to to talk about money, how about the $8 million a season (possibly up to $11M with incentives) that we're paying a certain backup quarterback? Remember when some of us kept saying we could have used that money to sign a decent player somewhere else on the roster, and then a whole bunch of other people were like - pffft, it doesn't matter! What a riot.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
I wasn’t there so I can only speculate. I don’t think the Steelers were going to pay $11M/year to any CB this past offseason.
They were paying Sutton $4.5M/yr and, just for conversation, let’s say they offered $7M for him to stay. Sutton responded that the Lions were offering $11M/yr. The Steelers said good luck to you in Detroit. Then offered Peterson $7M/yr and he agreed to that. You could have the opinion that Sutton at $11M is the better deal over Peterson at $7M, but there is nothing in the careers of Sutton and Peterson that backs that up.
I do not see any correlation or significance other than what the Steelers were willing to pay the position. Had Peterson said he wanted $11M/yr I doubt he would have been signed. Had Sutton agreed to $7M/yr I think he would still be a Steeler. But again, I wasn’t there. Only speculation.
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Originally Posted by steelreserve
I understood why they wanted Mitch Trubisky to be around and I was ok with it, but I said at the time if they could sign a big free agent or keep a quality player, that would have a bigger impact on helping the team than a quarterback that would hopefully not even play.
When they signed Trubisky it was before the draft. I'm sure they planned to draft a QB in round 1, but they couldn't have known who would be available when it was their turn to pick and so had to cover their bases by signing a free agent QB. Well, unless they wanted to risk Mason being their starter last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
Steelreserve meant after they drafted Pickett they could have released or traded Trubisky at the end of last season so they would have more money to sign players.