I really don’t enjoy Steelers games anymore.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

No not upset. If you watch my comments and the game day threads even as far back as last season, I’ve complained that their coverages have been extremely soft and it’s something I pay attention too a lot. Just watching today’s games, sure there are receivers open and blown coverages but there aren’t multiple guys running through back ends of defenses as freely and as unscathed as they do versus the Steelers. Whatever scheme Pittsburgh is running, it’s clearly not and has not been working unless the QB on the opposing team screws up himself for the most part.

Again, it was a lesser Bengals team. With Brown and Higgins, the Bengals are putting up many more points than they did last night. I’m not looking to give celebration because the Steelers held a Bengals team, that slaughtered them with Higgins in the game. It doesn’t pass the eye test. Wide open receiver across the middle, Cam knocks it down. That’s a first down and I believe he’s in FG range at that point. Can knocks a ball down with a wide open receiver in the end zone. Jamar Chase drops an easy TD reception. That’s 17 points right there. Put Higgins back in the game and who knows how much they get beat? It’s false celebration IMO.

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We must not watch a lot of the same games. Because I see guys wandering wide open through defenses all the time. I also see the Steelers have receivers similarly open that the QB doesn't or can't see,

I am not arguing that the Steelers are some all-time or even 2024 season excellent defense. But they are first in takeaways and likely top 5-10 in everything else except pass yards per game. They are bottom half at that. But so are the Vikings, Ravens, and Bills.

I don't think it is a great defense. But it is more than good enough to win a SB with if they had a good QB. Heck, do an Iggles draft and double dip at DB and they might start totally throttling teams.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

We must not watch a lot of the same games. Because I see guys wandering wide open through defenses all the time. I also see the Steelers have receivers similarly open that the QB doesn't or can't see,

I am not arguing that the Steelers are some all-time or even 2024 season excellent defense. But they are first in takeaways and likely top 5-10 in everything else except pass yards per game. They are bottom half at that. But so are the Vikings, Ravens, and Bills.

I don't think it is a great defense. But it is more than good enough to win a SB with if they had a good QB. Heck, do an Iggles draft and double dip at DB and they might start totally throttling teams.

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I see receivers open…just not open the way these guys are against Pittsburgh with 4-5 guys in a perfect distance away from and around the receiver. These receivers are wide open to the point where defenders are working away from them when receivers catch the ball and then coming down. Other teams have guys open and the defenders are already coming down or closing. This team does not do that. Yesterday alone, the 2-3 TEs caught 5-6 balls? Maybe more?

Higgins stays in that game last night and I’m confident they score 35+. Nothing they did says they would’ve stopped that.

It’s not a defense that will stop teams with a good pass scheme or a decent QB. Could probably pick out 2-3 games that they won this season that they wouldn’t win today.

They are far, far, FAR away from the playoffs in 2025…let alone a division title.

There’s a not a position on the team where they don’t need serious help or decent depth. Maybe Guard is the exception.

I am enjoying sports less and less.

I watch the Sixers in the NBA and the ownership has been Jets/Browns bad since the 80s. They draft and trade and drop players they should have kept. Then the load management bull shit and flopping has turned into a joke.

The Steelers are getting to a point where watching these young players complain and be selfish is becoming NBA level ridiculous. Yes all teams have selfish players but they quit too easily and the transfer portal in college means cry babies leave after a season.

I watch YouTube or Netflix type of entertainment now more than sports. I will keep watching sports but not paying a dime towards any team anymore. I still plan on trying to make a game one day but that's looking not doable for a while

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Steelers are a good distraction for me from the everyday burdens of life, for me there are a few. Its the Steelers and Lakers. Primarily the Steelers. I’m not jumping ship or taking a break. Not after 47 years of following them. I know theyll right the ship. Although i’m convinced they need a new HC and culture that will come along with it.

ill watch the upcoming playoff game, as difficult as it may be. There’s always a chance the ball and calls may bounce our way. Thats all were left with at this point.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I see receivers open…just not open the way these guys are against Pittsburgh with 4-5 guys in a perfect distance away from and around the receiver. These receivers are wide open to the point where defenders are working away from them when receivers catch the ball and then coming down. Other teams have guys open and the defenders are already coming down or closing. This team does not do that. Yesterday alone, the 2-3 TEs caught 5-6 balls? Maybe more?

Higgins stays in that game last night and I’m confident they score 35+. Nothing they did says they would’ve stopped that.

It’s not a defense that will stop teams with a good pass scheme or a decent QB. Could probably pick out 2-3 games that they won this season that they wouldn’t win today.

They are far, far, FAR away from the playoffs in 2025…let alone a division title.

There’s a not a position on the team where they don’t need serious help or decent depth. Maybe Guard is the exception.

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Again, we must not watch the same non-Steelers games. I see what you are describing all the time. Just watched it in the Carolina-Atlanta game repeatedly. Saw it in the Bears-Packers game from both sides. And I only watched maybe 4 dozen plays across those two games.

As bad as you think the Steelers defense is....it is better than many. A good defense in 2024 would have been a mediocre defense at best in many other decade of the NFL. It is is what it is.

I think this team is a QB away from being a power in the AFC. And without a QB...two DB's, a WR, and some DL pieces away from being a threatening team anyways.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Again, we must not watch the same non-Steelers games. I see what you are describing all the time. Just watched it in the Carolina-Atlanta game repeatedly. Saw it in the Bears-Packers game from both sides. And I only watched maybe 4 dozen plays across those two games.

As bad as you think the Steelers defense is....it is better than many. A good defense in 2024 would have been a mediocre defense at best in many other decade of the NFL. It is is what it is.

I think this team is a QB away from being a power in the AFC. And without a QB...two DB's, a WR, and some DL pieces away from being a threatening team anyways.

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I see open WRs as well. Haven’t seen one yet run as wide open in the Jets/Dolphins game or the Giants Eagles games. Malik Nabors going against the Eagles backups and want as wide open as Higgins Chase or Gesicki was all day yesterday.

I think they are MUCH, MUCH further away than that. QB, RB, WR, 2DL, 2DB, S and that’s not counting depth players. They are also a WR Coach and an OL Coach away. Also could probably use an innovative DC.

I’d have to agree to just disagree because I’m seeing something totally different in these games than what’s happening in a Steelers game.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I see open WRs as well. Haven’t seen one yet run as wide open in the Jets/Dolphins game or the Giants Eagles games. Malik Nabors going against the Eagles backups and want as wide open as Higgins Chase or Gesicki was all day yesterday.

I think they are MUCH, MUCH further away than that. QB, RB, WR, 2DL, 2DB, S and that’s not counting depth players. They are also a WR Coach and an OL Coach away. Also could probably use an innovative DC.

I’d have to agree to just disagree because I’m seeing something totally different in these games than what’s happening in a Steelers game.

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It might be as simple as running less single high. I think they lead the league by a cozy margin. Gotta assume that means they're manning up a great deal as well. I can't find the charting of that anywhere, so who knows?

Or are the underneath defenders not passing off guys?

I think we've seen evidence of both.

From my couch it looks like Sutton, Queen, Bishop, and Wilson all struggled at various times with guys coming through their area or overloading their side. Things like sorting out trips and high low crossers seemed to cause struggles. 2 guys are rookies...so sure? Queen is new and I'm not certain where his understanding of things is, and finally -sutton seems to have either forgotten how to play ball or he's lost a step.

All that being said...someone needs to be quicker to get the moron squad squared away.

If they are running Cover 2, it’s more or less an extinct concept in the league but I’m not sure what they are running from play to play because I’m not watching the 22s. They do a lot of single high but whatever they are doing is not working.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

The NFL as a whole took a dive when the whole "Brady rules" BS began and defensive football was essentially legislated out of the game under the guise of "player safety."

The current product is basically the Arena League with superior talent. Furthermore, NFL football in the 21st century has become a penalty flag-laden mess where the officials now have an outsized influence on the outcome of far too many games.

Personally speaking, if I see one more instance of a "marquee" player lobbying the officials for a penalty flag well after the conclusion of a play and getting it (see: "Brady rules"), I'm gonna scream.

No thanks. After the Steelers get bounced next week, I will stop paying attention completely until next season, which is what I have been doing for a number of years at this point.

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Agreed. I used to watch any NFL game long ago. Now I watch the Steeler games only, with limited enthusiasm. The NFL is not what it used to be.

You all aren't wrong that the game has changed.

I agree that the officiating and flafs has just gotten ridiculous. Honestly, I blame the super slow mo frame by frame HD replay and the nitpicking of every motion. It's gone beyond common sense.

However, I don't miss the three yards and a cloud of dust slobber knocker football I grew up watching.

The breath taking physical talents and athletic feats taking place in almost every game will keep me watching.

I totally get if it's not for each fan.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I think you guys have totally unrealistic expectations and the. Get angina and heartburn when they’re not met.

People are complaining about the defense last night. They held the Bengals to one of their 3 or 4 lowest point totals of the season and certainly their lowest in many weeks. That’s what effective and winning defense looks like in the contemporary offense focused NFL. I’m happy that many of you got to see the Steelers Curtain grind offenses into paste. I’m glad I started watching the NFL in an era where it was still possible to totally shut down an offense for 60 minutes. But those days are over. Stop setting yourself up for disappointing afternoons. A couple of turnovers and anything southbof two dozen points is a heckuva defensive game.

The rest of the complaints are about the offense. On this one, I’m going with “told you so”. Many of you wanted to give Wilson a multi year deal and visions of a deep playoff run dancing in year heads after he moon balled some mediocre teams. He’s not that guy. His total meltdown against the end schedule gauntlet proves that.

Wilson’s flaws have all come out into the light. He can’t or won’t work the intermediate/middle of the field. He thinks he can outrun guys he no longer can (see the 22 seconds wasted scramble at the end of the game). And he holds the ball forever while only looking downfield until he either takes a sack or panics and checks it down. And for additional spice, Wilson likes to make his OTs look bad by running into pressure.

Unfortunately those bad habits are exacerbated by the flaws in the roster and Smutg's stubbornness as a playcaller. Smith has not really adapted to his team but just plays his stuff. His first down packages are larfeky ineffective. He refuses to play Pickens and Williams at the same time, he runs his condensed 3TE package despite abysmal results, and he's decided he can make Harris an outside zone RB through sheer forve of will. These flaws are not new. His stubbornness in the face of failure and inability to get the ball to his playmakers instead of the backup FB where a large part of why he got fired in Atlanta.

To be fair to Smith, he's doing a ton well also. But much of it is being lost by Fields and Wildons flaws. Smith always attacked defense right down the middle using a lot of TEs and WR breaking in. Aikman highlighted multiple times last night where that was there and Wilson turned it down. As he has for his entire 14 year career. I honestly can not think of a bigger mismatched OC and QB pair.

All of this was pretty predictable from the preseason. But many of you chose to believe you saw a 12-14 win team. And now you're crying in your beer when it didn't meet your inflated expectations.

The 2024 Steelers met or exceeded all of my expectations. Like I honestly thought Queen was going to be a disaster, Frazier and McCormick where gonna get embarrassed, and the defense was going to collapse.

I'm excited about the upcoming seasons. I think they have 4/5 OL positions sorted out for years to come. I think they need more speed and skill on offense. On defense, just keep on keeping on.

Keep collecting lottery tickets at QB. I would like to see them add another offensive coach or two to assist Smith with expanding his perspective and incorporating additional elements into his scheme.

I think after the Ravens, Chiefs, and Bills; there's not another AFC team's roster I'd rather have. The 2024 Steelers are an incomplete team. They're in the middle of transitioning from "totally adrift" on offense "to flawed but there's a plan". Figure out a two pronged approach to QB (Fields and a draft pick?), consider how to get the OL playing better, and they could take a massive leap in 2025.

It wasn't evervas good as you thought in 2024 nor is it as bad as you fear now.

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Interesting thoughts. However, You mention attacking the middle of the field. Aikman mentioned this on air several times during the game. My question though is are we sure this is a Wilson issue? We have 7 years of film showing that this is actually the philosophy of the team (ever since Haley left). Coincidentally that was also the last time we won a playoff game. Wilson may have issues but i think its unfair to say he wont use the middle of the field when we know that Tomlin has meddled with the offense over the years and prefers to avoid the middle of the field as it limits turnovers. Aikman kept mentioning the lack of use of crossing routes or slants in the center of the field that would open things up. So here we sit on our third OC (and how many Qb's) since 2018 that this has been a issue. it cant be the QB's with us having had 7 different QB's play since 2018 and all seemed to have the same issue (even Ben). Can't be just the OC's since we have had 3 different ones and doesn't seem like the offense has changed much. So whats the common denominator. Tomlin. If he is not directly influencing it then he is too stupid to realize and correct it. What's the definition of insanity again?

Wilson can’t throw in the middle very well unless he’s out of the pocket. He has (and always has had) problems seeing the passing lanes in the pocket because of his height. If he can’t go over top, he can’t do it.

I'm sorry but the defense is nowhere intimidating as it once was and the lack of disguise and creativity is killing them. Only luck is what kept Cincy at 19 points. Tipped passes is the only thing that saved them. To me that is luck and not actually being a "good defense". Everybody wants to play the Steelers in the playoffs, we are a soft team. We will get carved up!!

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Originally Posted by MikeT

Interesting thoughts. However, You mention attacking the middle of the field. Aikman mentioned this on air several times during the game. My question though is are we sure this is a Wilson issue? We have 7 years of film showing that this is actually the philosophy of the team (ever since Haley left). Coincidentally that was also the last time we won a playoff game. Wilson may have issues but i think its unfair to say he wont use the middle of the field when we know that Tomlin has meddled with the offense over the years and prefers to avoid the middle of the field as it limits turnovers. Aikman kept mentioning the lack of use of crossing routes or slants in the center of the field that would open things up. So here we sit on our third OC (and how many Qb's) since 2018 that this has been a issue. it cant be the QB's with us having had 7 different QB's play since 2018 and all seemed to have the same issue (even Ben). Can't be just the OC's since we have had 3 different ones and doesn't seem like the offense has changed much. So whats the common denominator. Tomlin. If he is not directly influencing it then he is too stupid to realize and correct it. What's the definition of insanity again?

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

Wilson can’t throw in the middle very well unless he’s out of the pocket. He has (and always has had) problems seeing the passing lanes in the pocket because of his height. If he can’t go over top, he can’t do it.

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I think that based on Wilson's 14 year history in the NFL, it is more than fair to say he does not use the middle of the field. It was something that was discussed here and in both Steelers and non-Steelers NFL places when he signed on. As 86 pointed out, I suspect his height has something to do with it. However, Brees and other short QBs have found a way to do it. Wilson has always chosen to get to some things by moving his feet, resetting outside the pocket and then throwing. Doesn't work now that Father Time has gotten a say. He needs to either adapt and develop an old man game or let it go.

Some of you guys are funny. Go be Browns fans or Jets fans, then you'd have something to complaine about. Sheesh

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Originally Posted by vasteeler

Some of you guys are funny. Go be Browns fans or Jets fans, then you'd have something to complaine about. Sheesh

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It takes a certain awareness of one's own self to realize that one's own expectations are usually the problem in situations like these.

We live in a society however where placing blame on others is the easiest, and most often preferred, solution. Self accountability is rare these days.

They don't want to be the Brown's, they just want their favorite franchise to run in the same way but with a different outcome (because instability at the headcoach position going to work for their favorite team......)

Making the Steelers/Ravens wildcard game only available on Prime? Goodell strikes again. :upyours:

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Originally Posted by vasteeler

Some of you guys are funny. Go be Browns fans or Jets fans, then you'd have something to complaine about. Sheesh

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For me, I won't feel this way after a month maybe. I will be ready for the draft then camp and then preseason [emoji23]


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Originally Posted by tube517

For me, I won't feel this way after a month maybe. I will be ready for the draft then camp and then preseason [emoji23]


Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

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Don't worry Coach .501 won't let you down. We'll draft in the mid 20's somewhere, make a pick everyone is excited about, then finish 10-7 or 9-8 next year ... rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I think that based on Wilson's 14 year history in the NFL, it is more than fair to say he does not use the middle of the field. It was something that was discussed here and in both Steelers and non-Steelers NFL places when he signed on. As 86 pointed out, I suspect his height has something to do with it. However, Brees and other short QBs have found a way to do it. Wilson has always chosen to get to some things by moving his feet, resetting outside the pocket and then throwing. Doesn't work now that Father Time has gotten a say. He needs to either adapt and develop an old man game or let it go.

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I forget which former QB announcer confirmed it but Wilson’s height issue is why he doesn’t throw over the middle. The passing lanes are very difficult for him to see and that’s why you see him dump off or throw deep. If he can’t lob over, he doesn’t make the throw. It may have been Brady that confirmed it but I can’t remember exactly who it was but they confirmed it.

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Originally Posted by MikeT

Interesting thoughts. However, You mention attacking the middle of the field. Aikman mentioned this on air several times during the game. My question though is are we sure this is a Wilson issue? We have 7 years of film showing that this is actually the philosophy of the team (ever since Haley left). Coincidentally that was also the last time we won a playoff game. Wilson may have issues but i think its unfair to say he wont use the middle of the field when we know that Tomlin has meddled with the offense over the years and prefers to avoid the middle of the field as it limits turnovers. Aikman kept mentioning the lack of use of crossing routes or slants in the center of the field that would open things up. So here we sit on our third OC (and how many Qb's) since 2018 that this has been a issue. it cant be the QB's with us having had 7 different QB's play since 2018 and all seemed to have the same issue (even Ben). Can't be just the OC's since we have had 3 different ones and doesn't seem like the offense has changed much. So whats the common denominator. Tomlin. If he is not directly influencing it then he is too stupid to realize and correct it. What's the definition of insanity again?

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Interesting also that Haley was a damn good OC that gets overlooked. Ever since Haley and Lebeau left both sides of the ball haven't been the same.

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I would rather get my teeth cleaned by a blind dental hygienist with the shakes than watch another game in how they played the Bengals.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

Making the Steelers/Ravens wildcard game only available on Prime? Goodell strikes again. :upyours:

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I resent having to watch games on a streaming service.

It all sucks.

But I'd rather a streaming service I might actually use then cable tv I don't use.

I haven't seen a MNF on ESPN in like 10 years?

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Originally Posted by ShadesOfSteel1172

Interesting also that Haley was a damn good OC that gets overlooked. Ever since Haley and Lebeau left both sides of the ball haven't been the same.

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Except there fans calling for Lebeau's head his last few years. Not saying you were one of them, but it was pretty loud. As long as we don't attain the goal many will always call to fire everyone.

BTW I like Hailey. He saved Ben's career by lessening the hits he took ever year.

Those of you who only watch Steeler games.. lmao. While this is your right, I think it clouds judgement on what is being done around the league.

The Steelers defense is good but they give up a ton of 3rd and longs (or seem to) and when we really need a splash play or stop late in games, it rarely happens (or that is how it seems).

but if you watch other games you see offenses that look light years ahead of ours. Our players looks slow, like they are running in mud while other teams are flying around running crisp routes and getting WIDE OPEN compared to what we witness with a Steelers offense.

That being said, I will always watch the games. I'm from Pittsburgh, it's what we do. We watch, we cheer, we complain and then we do it again next week.

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Originally Posted by oneforthetoe

Except there fans calling for Lebeau's head his last few years. Not saying you were one of them, but it was pretty loud. As long as we don't attain the goal many will always call to fire everyone.

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Lebeau's scheme was great when everyone knew what they were doing. As players got younger that playbook was way too complex.

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Originally Posted by feltdizz

Those of you who only watch Steeler games.. lmao. While this is your right, I think it clouds judgement on what is being done around the league.

The Steelers defense is good but they give up a ton of 3rd and longs (or seem to) and when we really need a splash play or stop late in games, it rarely happens (or that is how it seems).

but if you watch other games you see offenses that look light years ahead of ours. Our players looks slow, like they are running in mud while other teams are flying around running crisp routes and getting WIDE OPEN compared to what we witness with a Steelers offense.

That being said, I will always watch the games. I'm from Pittsburgh, it's what we do. We watch, we cheer, we complain and then we do it again next week.

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Amen. Praise the great Art in the sky.

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Originally Posted by feltdizz

Those of you who only watch Steeler games.. lmao. While this is your right, I think it clouds judgement on what is being done around the league.

The Steelers defense is good but they give up a ton of 3rd and longs (or seem to) and when we really need a splash play or stop late in games, it rarely happens (or that is how it seems).

but if you watch other games you see offenses that look light years ahead of ours. Our players looks slow, like they are running in mud while other teams are flying around running crisp routes and getting WIDE OPEN compared to what we witness with a Steelers offense.

That being said, I will always watch the games. I'm from Pittsburgh, it's what we do. We watch, we cheer, we complain and then we do it again next week.

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Lebeau's scheme was great when everyone knew what they were doing. As players got younger that playbook was way too complex.

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I think all you have to do is listen to his Hall of Fame speech where (paraphrasing) he talked about how he was genius when he had, Rod Woodson, Troy ect and how dumb he was when he didn't.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I think that based on Wilson's 14 year history in the NFL, it is more than fair to say he does not use the middle of the field. It was something that was discussed here and in both Steelers and non-Steelers NFL places when he signed on. As 86 pointed out, I suspect his height has something to do with it. However, Brees and other short QBs have found a way to do it. Wilson has always chosen to get to some things by moving his feet, resetting outside the pocket and then throwing. Doesn't work now that Father Time has gotten a say. He needs to either adapt and develop an old man game or let it go.

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they found a way for guys like wilson and brees by the o line creating passing lanes. Takes a good o line to do that. And sometimes Wilson had to use his legs to move around and get a better view. In the cinci game late Wilson had a few passing lanes where he targeted PF in the middle of the field. But at his age, this is just not a recipe for success. And our line is not good enough.

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Originally Posted by lipps83

It takes a certain awareness of one's own self to realize that one's own expectations are usually the problem in situations like these.

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So now having high expectations for your team is a problem? :huh:

Damn right I have high expectations for the Steelers. The problem is with the Steelers for failing to fulfill those expectations over a long period of time.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

So now having high expectations for your team is a problem? :huh:

Damn right I have high expectations for the Steelers. The problem is with the Steelers for failing to fulfill those expectations over a long period of time.

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You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I never said having expectations was a problem. You can set expectations for anything in life that you desire to have expectations for. You can place your expectations of others into the stratosphere, if you wish to do so. You could even set your expectations so incredibly high that it would be impossible for anyone, or anything, to meet them.

However, the Steelers failing to meet your expectations over a long period of time is not their fault.

Let me know when you get it.