3 Steelers Legends Considered Likely Hall of Famers

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

Hall of Fame voters do say: “there’s already too many Steelers in the HOF right now…let’s wait a while or not put a player in because of it.” They also don’t give votes based on players they don’t appreciate…which Ben is one of. Ben has the credentials, easily, to be first ballot…and should be. I don’t have much confidence in those casting the votes…

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Dumb ass Peter King and his big mouth said that.

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Originally Posted by tube517

Dumb ass Peter King and his big mouth said that.

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Too many steelers in the HOF is just a stupid reason.One of the reason he did not vote for Polamalu in 2020....

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

Too many steelers in the HOF is just a stupid reason.One of the reason he did not vote for Polamalu in 2020....

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I think it might be the dumbest reason of all time and having said it publicly, his vote should’ve been revoked.

its the Hall of fame , not the hall of the very good or the hall of fairness or hall of equality but Hall of Fame only the best of the best should be brought into those halls based on the name alone and its concept ,what jersey you wore to achieve greatness should have ZERO to do with it

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

its the Hall of fame , not the hall of the very good or the hall of fairness or hall of equality but Hall of Fame only the best of the best should be brought into those halls based on the name alone and its concept ,what jersey you wore to achieve greatness should have ZERO to do with it

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Absolutely true. Also true is that off-field issues should have nothing to do with the HoF unless they were issues that directly affected the team or teams (such as AB).

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Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel

I am really surprised by the debate here. Ben will be a first ballot HOFer. It’s not even a question.

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That's actually not the debate, at least, not the one I'm having. I'm saying that if he doesn't get in, in the first round, there are enough reasons outside of off-field actions for it. Or, to put it a different way, I do not accept the already setup narrative that the only reason Ben misses the HoF in his first year is because of Milledgeville or the woman the year before. There were enough cracks in his game that I can legitimately see him not making in year one. Not that he won't, but that there are reasons that it could be so. If, however, he drops past year three in my opinion, then those other reasons go away.

That's the heart of what I've been arguing here, although I admit I haven't been clear on it and it sounds like I'm arguing he won't be a first-ballot HoFer. But again, see above for my actual argument.

I think that Eli will be up a year or so before Ben. If he gets in right away, then Ben has to waltz in regardless of any surrounding stuff.

And I think Eli gets in. So Ben has to. Better stats and same # of SB wins.

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Originally Posted by Craic

That's actually not the debate, at least, not the one I'm having. I'm saying that if he doesn't get in, in the first round, there are enough reasons outside of off-field actions for it. Or, to put it a different way, I do not accept the already setup narrative that the only reason Ben misses the HoF in his first year is because of Milledgeville or the woman the year before. There were enough cracks in his game that I can legitimately see him not making in year one. Not that he won't, but that there are reasons that it could be so. If, however, he drops past year three in my opinion, then those other reasons go away.

That's the heart of what I've been arguing here, although I admit I haven't been clear on it and it sounds like I'm arguing he won't be a first-ballot HoFer. But again, see above for my actual argument.

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I think I understand what you’re saying. But to me it’s kind of like saying if Tom Brady doesn’t get in first ballot it will be because of Spygate or Deflategate.

Or if Adrian Peterson doesn’t get in it will be because he beat his kid with a tree trunk. Or because he never won a championship. Or any other reason that we can come up with that won’t actually be relevant because he WILL get in first ballot. As will Brady.

The only scenario when voters vote against someone who obviously should get in that year is if they hold some kind of vendetta. Like with TO. Or possibly with AB, because those guys were such extreme personalities that it almost takes over the story of their careers.

I agree that the sexual assault allegations won’t be a factor because by the time Ben retired nobody thought of him in those terms, even if they might have thought he was at the very least an extreme jerk at the time of the allegations. By the end Ben was thought of as a family man, a Jesus disciple (but not annoying about it like Tebow) and a pillar of the community. The press really liked him, and they loved the theatrical tear jerker of an ending when he took a lap around Heinz Field for the last time. The press LOVES that kind of thing, which they didn’t get with Brady.

But as far as cracks in his game… every QB has cracks. Brady was a statue who wasn’t great outside the pocket. Elway didn’t have the best completion percentage. Favre threw way too many picks. Etc. But when you are top eight in every individual QB category (including comeback wins and perfect games and 500 yard passing games and 5000 yard seasons) with two rings and a REALLY good winning percentage, plus winning the first 6th Lombardi for a franchise with an absolute story book SB winning pass… that’s all there is to it. There are no arguments to put any eight guys in ahead of him on any given year. Whatever cracks you might find. The story of 21st century NFL football can’t be told without Ben’s heroics. He’s featured in that movie.

Even if Peter King votes against him for being a Steeler. Nobody else will be that ridiculous.

But I know I don’t have to sell anyone on Ben’s HOF case, so let me put in purely pragmatic terms.

Ben’s first year of eligibility will be 2027. The other potential first year guys that year will be AP, Gronk, and Richard Sherman. Let’s say all three make it in that year. Okay, in order to keep Ben out the voters will have to decide that there are five guys who weren’t good enough to make it in their first year of eligibility, but are more deserving to get in than Ben.

Name me five guys who could fit that criteria. Is that the year they decide that Hines Ward absolutely needs to get in and is more deserving of a gold jacket than Ben? I don’t think so. Anyone who could possibly leapfrog Ben must not have the kind of cracks in their game that would have kept them from being first ballot HOFers themselves.

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Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel

. . . The story of 21st century NFL football can’t be told without Ben’s heroics. He’s featured in that movie.

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True, no one's perfect. But when you're looking at cracks in the game, the question is when do they show up? I think Ben was just a little too streaky to be that top-tier shoe-in player. He'd have a series of games that literally made him look like the best QB in the last quarter century. Remember when he threw for six touchdowns against the Colts and 522 passing yards, then threw for another six TDs the Ravens and 340 more passing yards? Unreal.

But, his next two games he QB rate of just barely over 80. I'd take Ben on a hot streak over any other QB. But there are a few QBs I'd take over Ben if I had to go into a full season. That's the difference for me. It's why I don't think he's a shoe-in for a first-round ballot. He simply wasn't consistent enough to be an automatic in. Now, that said, one of the things I do look for is that someone changed the game. And, at least on a personal level, when teams played him they had to change how they rushed and tackled because of his abilities.

As for a movie of the first quarter century of football (this century), I'm not sure he's featured. Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes all get featured, whether we agree or not. Ben, Eli Manning, Rivers, Wilson, Ryan, Favre and Warner all share the time remaining. And, once again, that's why I say he isn't a shoe-in, which means if he doesn't get in, it's not automatically because of off-field issues.

All-in-all, it'll be interesting. I really want to see who's in his class first. There might be a couple who should have made it but got squeezed out because it was their first ballot. They, in turn, might squeeze Ben out.

That being said, although I'd love to see Ward in earlier, how great would it be to see Ben and Hines go in the same year?

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Originally Posted by Craic

True, no one's perfect. But when you're looking at cracks in the game, the question is when do they show up? I think Ben was just a little too streaky to be that top-tier shoe-in player. He'd have a series of games that literally made him look like the best QB in the last quarter century. Remember when he threw for six touchdowns against the Colts and 522 passing yards, then threw for another six TDs the Ravens and 340 more passing yards? Unreal.

But, his next two games he QB rate of just barely over 80. I'd take Ben on a hot streak over any other QB. But there are a few QBs I'd take over Ben if I had to go into a full season. That's the difference for me. It's why I don't think he's a shoe-in for a first-round ballot. He simply wasn't consistent enough to be an automatic in. Now, that said, one of the things I do look for is that someone changed the game. And, at least on a personal level, when teams played him they had to change how they rushed and tackled because of his abilities.

As for a movie of the first quarter century of football (this century), I'm not sure he's featured. Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes all get featured, whether we agree or not. Ben, Eli Manning, Rivers, Wilson, Ryan, Favre and Warner all share the time remaining. And, once again, that's why I say he isn't a shoe-in, which means if he doesn't get in, it's not automatically because of off-field issues.

All-in-all, it'll be interesting. I really want to see who's in his class first. There might be a couple who should have made it but got squeezed out because it was their first ballot. They, in turn, might squeeze Ben out.

That being said, although I'd love to see Ward in earlier, how great would it be to see Ben and Hines go in the same year?

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I'd have to disagree with you there. No reason that Ben isn't in that first quarter of that movie. For a 9-year span, only three QBs represented the AFC in the Super Bowl and Ben was one of them. If you want to talk about "cracks in a game", Peyton Manning has plenty to speak of. Aaron Rodgers as well. Roethlisberger was no less than a Top-4 QB during the prime of that time period. Same with Favre. He and Favre are far and away better players than Eli, Rivers, Wilson and Ryan.

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Originally Posted by Craic

True, no one's perfect. But when you're looking at cracks in the game, the question is when do they show up? I think Ben was just a little too streaky to be that top-tier shoe-in player. He'd have a series of games that literally made him look like the best QB in the last quarter century. Remember when he threw for six touchdowns against the Colts and 522 passing yards, then threw for another six TDs the Ravens and 340 more passing yards? Unreal.

But, his next two games he QB rate of just barely over 80. I'd take Ben on a hot streak over any other QB. But there are a few QBs I'd take over Ben if I had to go into a full season. That's the difference for me. It's why I don't think he's a shoe-in for a first-round ballot. He simply wasn't consistent enough to be an automatic in. Now, that said, one of the things I do look for is that someone changed the game. And, at least on a personal level, when teams played him they had to change how they rushed and tackled because of his abilities.

As for a movie of the first quarter century of football (this century), I'm not sure he's featured. Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes all get featured, whether we agree or not. Ben, Eli Manning, Rivers, Wilson, Ryan, Favre and Warner all share the time remaining. And, once again, that's why I say he isn't a shoe-in, which means if he doesn't get in, it's not automatically because of off-field issues.

All-in-all, it'll be interesting. I really want to see who's in his class first. There might be a couple who should have made it but got squeezed out because it was their first ballot. They, in turn, might squeeze Ben out.

That being said, although I'd love to see Ward in earlier, how great would it be to see Ben and Hines go in the same year?

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I can quibble a bit with your standards, but the validity of your criticisms isn’t really in question. You might not put him up there with some of the very top QBs but those guys won’t be his competition his first year of eligibility.

Unless there will be 8 players who deserve the HOF more than Ben in 2027, he’s in first that year.

Who are those 8 guys? That’s the ONLY practical question. I promise at most you will find two who have less cracks in their game than Ben (by your standards) and they won’t even be QBs so that certainly won’t matter.

AP and Gronk are in. Maybe Sherman. Anyone else will almost certainly not be a first ballot HOFer (probably not even close to Ben’s qualifications) or they’d have already gotten in. That means Ben will be more deserving than anyone else who isn’t already in.

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Originally Posted by willy

Big Ben a HOFer? Without question. Should he be a 1st ballot? 3 SB appearances, 2 rings. I say he's a first ballot HOFer.

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you can add his NFL-record 13–0 as a rookie

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Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel

I can quibble a bit with your standards, but the validity of your criticisms isn’t really in question. You might not put him up there with some of the very top QBs but those guys won’t be his competition his first year of eligibility.

Unless there will be 8 players who deserve the HOF more than Ben in 2027, he’s in first that year.

Who are those 8 guys? That’s the ONLY practical question. I promise at most you will find two who have less cracks in their game than Ben (by your standards) and they won’t even be QBs so that certainly won’t matter.

AP and Gronk are in. Maybe Sherman. Anyone else will almost certainly not be a first ballot HOFer (probably not even close to Ben’s qualifications) or they’d have already gotten in. That means Ben will be more deserving than anyone else who isn’t already in.

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Here's a great article about where Ben stands historically. Nice breakdown.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/b...n-nfl-history/

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Originally Posted by pczach

Here's a great article about where Ben stands historically. Nice breakdown.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/b...n-nfl-history/

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That makes me miss Ben.

I will keep saying ben is a first ballot guy. NO QUESTION.

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Originally Posted by DuckHodges

I will keep saying ben is a first ballot guy. NO QUESTION.

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I agree.

I don't know how anyone look at the link I gave above listing all of Ben's stats and all-time rank at the time of his retirement and think Ben is not a HOF player. It is beyond my comprehension.

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Originally Posted by pczach

I agree.

I don't know how anyone look at the link I gave above listing all of Ben's stats and all-time rank at the time of his retirement and think Ben is not a HOF player. It is beyond my comprehension.

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Meh. Game manager. :chuckle:

Seriously, Ben will be in Canton. Bank on it.

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Originally Posted by pczach

I agree.

I don't know how anyone look at the link I gave above listing all of Ben's stats and all-time rank at the time of his retirement and think Ben is not a HOF player. It is beyond my comprehension.

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Nope, no question he's a HoFer. Only question is which ballot.

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Originally Posted by Craic

Nope, no question he's a HoFer. Only question is which ballot.

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To me, that should not be in question as well.

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Originally Posted by Craic

Nope, no question he's a HoFer. Only question is which ballot.

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I haven't posted here in a couple years but this is the dumbest question I think I've ever read on this forum.

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Originally Posted by SteelersNorth

I haven't posted here in a couple years but this is the dumbest question I think I've ever read on this forum.

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Trust me, there have been much dumber questions in the last four years since you became a member…..and you feel qualified to make that statement?

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

Trust me, there have been much dumber questions in the last four years since you became a member…..and you feel qualified to make that statement?

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There’s a lot of dumb content running around these parts!! Some of it with my name attached…lol

Somehow got posted in wrong thread…

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Originally Posted by Craic

Aikman won three superbowls in four years, had an 11-4 record in the playoffs, and made the Probowl six times when it was more than just a publicity contest. He was also the SB XXVII MVP where he threw for four TDs and had a QB rating of 140.7. In his last SB, his rating was 108.8 for a lifetime SB pass rating of 111.9. And, that was before the current pass-happy era of inflated QB stats.

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With hands down the best OL in NFL history in front of him the entire time. And the only reason he won his last SB is because Neil O'Donnell handed it to him on a silver platter.

Meanwhile, Ben wound up pulling this team's fat out of the fire and winning a SB with by far the worst OL of any Super Bowl winner. Hell, probably the worst OL of any SB participant, never mind winner.

But yeah, Ben won't go in as a first ballot. But it will be because of Milledgeville, not because he wasn't a good enough QB.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

With hands down the best OL in NFL history in front of him the entire time. And the only reason he won his last SB is because Neil O'Donnell handed it to him on a silver platter.

Meanwhile, Ben wound up pulling this team's fat out of the fire and winning a SB with by far the worst OL of any Super Bowl winner. Hell, probably the worst OL of any SB participant, never mind winner.

But yeah, Ben won't go in as a first ballot. But it will be because of Milledgeville, not because he wasn't a good enough QB.

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I love Ben, I just don't think he played QB at level that would demand a first-round ballot. For me, those are reserved for best-of-era type players unless it's a weak class, and Ben was never the best of his era. HoF-worthy? Absolutely.

As for Dallas back then, it's funny. I've argued something similar about Emmitt Smith. Was he good? Absolutely, but not sure he's as good as his stats suggest due to that line.

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Originally Posted by Craic

I love Ben, I just don't think he played QB at level that would demand a first-round ballot. For me, those are reserved for best-of-era type players unless it's a weak class, and Ben was never the best of his era. HoF-worthy? Absolutely.

As for Dallas back then, it's funny. I've argued something similar about Emmitt Smith. Was he good? Absolutely, but not sure he's as good as his stats suggest due to that line.

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Sorry but I’m going the other way. Ben has had issues during his career, but I think he’s a lock for the first ballot. All he wanted to do was get back in the game. BA did everything he could to get Ben killed. BA’s plays were so slow in developing. One year I think he was sacked 48 times. That’s why Todd was hired. Ben had the greatest “pump fake” of any QB. You may be right, but I’m hopeful for a first. Three SBs with two wins. Two 500 yards passing….in the same season. I can’t even count the “comeback wins”. Bettis was a first ballot, more deserving?

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

Sorry but I’m going the other way. Ben has had issues during his career, but I think he’s a lock for the first ballot. All he wanted to do was get back in the game. BA did everything he could to get Ben killed. BA’s plays were so slow in developing. One year I think he was sacked 48 times. That’s why Todd was hired. Ben had the greatest “pump fake” of any QB. You may be right, but I’m hopeful for a first. Three SBs with two wins. Two 500 yards passing….in the same season. I can’t even count the “comeback wins”. Bettis was a first ballot, more deserving?

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Bettis was in the HOF in the 5th year

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Originally Posted by Craic

I love Ben, I just don't think he played QB at level that would demand a first-round ballot. For me, those are reserved for best-of-era type players unless it's a weak class, and Ben was never the best of his era. HoF-worthy? Absolutely.

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Nor was Aikman - he was simply on the best team. Personally, I think Aikman was a tier below Marino, Young and Favre.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

With hands down the best OL in NFL history in front of him the entire time. And the only reason he won his last SB is because Neil O'Donnell handed it to him on a silver platter.

Meanwhile, Ben wound up pulling this team's fat out of the fire and winning a SB with by far the worst OL of any Super Bowl winner. Hell, probably the worst OL of any SB participant, never mind winner.

But yeah, Ben won't go in as a first ballot. But it will be because of Milledgeville, not because he wasn't a good enough QB.

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This