If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

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Originally Posted by Count Steeler

Who knows what it will take to keep Ben in the Black and Gold. He is getting to that nervous age, especially with the punishment he has taken. However, it depends what is on the horizon. If a player is available from where we end up in the draft, it would be worthwhile to test the waters.

I think it is going to come down to Ben and what he sees for his future. If there is hope that the Steelers are legitimate SB contenders in the short term, I think he will stay for a discount. If it is a repeat of this year's underwhelming effort, Ben may leave on his own.

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And that's why this thread isn't ridiculous. Because if, and this is a big if, one I don't believe will happen in fact, but one that many on this board seemingly do. If we miss the playoffs for a 3rd straight year, then how much do you commit to a qb who failed to get you to the playoffs for 3 straight seasons? Say he demands a Joe Flacco type contract how do you guarantee that sort of money to a 33 year old player who's been hit as often as Ben?

Again if we miss the playoffs this year, I honestly believe all options are going to be put on the table. I still think odds favor Ben finishing his career as a Steeler, but if Ben and Tomlin start staring daggers at each other at the end of a bad season, don't think that Ben might not yearn to join his buddy Bruce out in the dessert.

It seems like this topic comes up every season. The Steelers would be absolute IDIOTS to trade Ben. Why in the world would you trade your franchise QB when there is no one ready to take his place? They will extend him with a 5-year, $100 million contract and get the money he deserves for taking the punishment he has during his career without so much as one complaint. His age is irrelevant - there is plenty of evidence that a QB can still be very productive into his late 30s. For everything he has done for this organization, he deserves to retire as a Steeler.

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Originally Posted by HollywoodSteel

I don't think it's a lateral move at all. In my opinion it's a crazy risk with no obvious reward unless you have someone to rebuild like Belichik or you're staring at an Andrew Luck situation. The logo on the helmet is not magic. Who is it that you trust to rebuild this team? This move just puts us somewhere in the pack praying that something good will happen in the next ten years. This offense has talent that has not been fully exploited. This defense could be a year away from being good enough to take us somewhere. I'd rather ride those odds with Ben than scrap everything for a couple of draft picks and a prayer.

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highly subjective don't you think ?

1 we have no idea what the offer would be......

2 we have no clue who the player would be

3 we have no idea who the draft picks would produce

4 we have no idea how those players careers pan out

that being said I doubt it happens , Ben is a Pittsburgh guy now , wife has life long roots to the area and now Ben has some pretty long time roots as well , their children where born here and they have grandparents just down the road ( just outside of New Castle in Laurel school district 38 miles from the Burgh )

The Steelers aren't going to trade Ben.

I agree Ben will most likely end his career as a Steeler. I hope he does. And if it weren't for his best buddy Arians being a qb away from a true Super Bowl contender then I might not even believe there's a chance that Ben wont be plying his trade in black and gold next year. But there he is out there. A qb away from being the favorite for the 2015 SB. So to dismiss the possibility out of hand is ridiculous.

If it were to come down to Ben vs. Tomlin, Tomlin would be the one to go. If not, there would be mutiny not only by the fans, but by the players.

Trading a franchise QB is a terrible idea in any situation. Remember when people wanted to trade Ben for Nnamdi? How would that be looking now? You don't trade franchise QBs...especially a Top-5 guy...

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Originally Posted by zulater

My point was he was a more than competent back up for Ben had he been kept. The kind of back up that could keep a season afloat if your starter went down for 2-6 games. Had the Steelers brass recognized Hoyer's value perhaps they don't waste a 4th round pick on Landry Jones? My thought was that Jones wasn't drafted to be Ben's replacement so much as he was brought on board to replace Charlie Batch and Byron Leftwich who not coincidentally ended their run with the Steelers in the most recently completed season before Jones was drafted. So ergo recognize the value of Hoyer and don't waste that 4th round pick on a back up qb. Remember Aaron Smith, Ike Taylor, and Larry Foote are all former 4th round picks. So if you think we are better off with Landry Jones than Brian Hoyer as our back up to Ben, good for you.

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I think Gradkowski is a better option at backup than both of them, myself. And good luck getting an Aaron Smith in the 4th round nowadays. Back in 1999 when almost nobody was playing a 3-4, sure.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

I think Gradkowski is a better option at backup than both of them, myself.

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Agree to disagree. But I think we could both agree the 4th round pick used on Landry Jones could have been better used.

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Originally Posted by X-Terminator

It seems like this topic comes up every season. The Steelers would be absolute IDIOTS to trade Ben. Why in the world would you trade your franchise QB when there is no one ready to take his place? They will extend him with a 5-year, $100 million contract and get the money he deserves for taking the punishment he has during his career without so much as one complaint. His age is irrelevant - there is plenty of evidence that a QB can still be very productive into his late 30s. For everything he has done for this organization, he deserves to retire as a Steeler.

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I agree * 1000!

The reason we're stuck on .500 isn't Ben, it's a stretch of poor drafting and worse coaching.

Trading him away would be like taking out the engine from your car because the shocks are worn out. Great, now you've still got bad shocks AND you've got no engine.

... and THAT'S the way you go 4-12.

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Originally Posted by zulater

Agree to disagree. But I think we could both agree the 4th round pick used on Landry Jones could have been better used.

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Not at all. That is totally hindsight. Coming into the draft Landry Jones was viewed as a top 3 round selection by most pre-draft "scouting" that is publicly available. Some even had a 1-2 round slotting. Now, there were disagreements with that, Mayock and many round these parts had him as a 4th round grade. A 4th round draft pick being spent on a guy who has a big time arm (much better "Arm talent" than Hoyer -- to use a dumb-ass Jaworski phrase), is younger than any other QB on the roster, and many had rated as a "steal" at that part of the draft? How is that a bad use of a pick? It only looks bad because, Jones is a mental midget who can't read defenses and gets rattled by pressure like a small child. That was not certain at the time. QB is the most difficult position for NFL teams to identify and develop talent at. Taking a gamble on sliding prospect from a big-time college program...not a terrible idea.

Also, look at who was drafted between Jones and the Steelers next pick, the immortal Terry Hawthorne -- http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...=round4#round4. Who on that list jumps out as helping this team? Kenny Stills? The variety of back-ups and practice squad players that litter the picks between?

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

The reason we're stuck on .500 isn't Ben, it's a stretch of poor drafting and worse coaching.

Trading him away would be like taking out the engine from your car because the shocks are worn out. Great, now you've still got bad shocks AND you've got no engine.

... and THAT'S the way you go 4-12.

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And going 4-12 is how you get your next franchise qb. ::wink02:

If they do trade Ben, there better be a can't miss franchise QB entering next year's draft (along the lines of Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck), and the Steelers better be willing to lose enough games to get him. It would make some sense if Ben was declining to the point where he wasn't close to the player he used to be, but he isn't, he is still playing at a high level.

As much as I'm sick of the way Tomlin hobbles into the season, 3-2 is better than 0-4, regardless of whether we pulled it off by the skin of our teeth. I'm not one of those fans content to say "a win is a win" and ignore the problems - but that's how they count it when they do the math to see who makes the postseason.

If I had to predict anything at this juncture it's that Cleveland will be a tough game but even if we lose it, the team will once again pull together and we should finish around 10-6 - and Tomlin will not be in jeopardy.

That said. If we somehow find ourselves the beneficiary of a Herschel Walker-esque trade offer for Ben, you have to think long and hard whether you believe we have a title contender sometime over the next three seasons - essentially Ben's window. If you don't think so... pull the trigger, but also ask yourself why you are in that position, and don't let any of the persons culpable be involved in choosing how to spend those extra draft picks.

To get back on topic, I wouldn't pull that trigger. Even if we have some surprising losses to round out the season, we have a lot of young people on both sides of the ball with loads of promise, and we forget what a fast football team we have. We are maybe a little bit more depth, plus a left tackle, cornerback, maybe nose tackle, and maybe linebacker, away from having elite potential especially as these young guys we already have develop. Some harsher growing pains than Steelers fans are used to but in the long run no worse off than other teams, and if we play the next offseason or two right... I guess that's a roundabout way of saying that the window for Ben to get another ring isn't necessarily closed here, so you have to keep him on.

I could be very wrong but if you look at the contracted players for 2015 and 2016 I can see that the front office is paving the way for giving Ben the keys to Fort Knox.

In 2014 Ben is earning $18.895M and they could absorb all that number under the cap

In 2015 38 players are under contract at $137 Million dollars in cap room. ( Ben at $18M can lower that number with a new contract)

In 2016 24 players are under contract at $83 Million dollars in cap room. ( I know that doesn't include URFA & RFA's coming up)

Troy and Heath may be retired freeing up around $13 million.

The core group of players that the Front office is counting on going forward is

1. Antonio Brown ( $12M)
2. Lawrence Timmons ( $12M)
3. Maurkice Pouncey ($9.6M)
4. Troy Polamalu ($8M)
5. Mitchell, Allen, Miller & Gilbert around $5M each


Add Cameron Heyward, David DeCastro to that group with new contracts and that leaves a lot of space for Ben.


Ben hasn't been restructured as yet (IMO) because:
1. he is being given his money in return for his service, loyalty and restructures
2. The cap number is set to increase again next year allowing for a bigger contract
3. more time equals more QB contracts signed to give both parties a better reference point.

The only way Ben doesn't sign a new contract is if he wants out.

The only way Ben will want out is that he sees no hope of winning with the current FO.

If the ultimatum was given by Ben, The FO goes or I go, I know who I am taking.

I've got 11 reasons why not to trade Ben.

Steelers starting quarterbacks between Bradshaw and Ben from 1983-2003:

Cliff Stoudt
Mark Malone
Bubby Brister
Steve Bono
Todd Blackledge
Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Jim Miller
Kordell Stewart
Kent Graham
Tommy Maddox

20 years without a franchise quarterback. I don't want to go through that again.

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Originally Posted by vader29

I've got 11 reasons why not to trade Ben.

Steelers starting quarterbacks between Bradshaw and Ben from 1983-2003:

Cliff Stoudt
Mark Malone
Bubby Brister
Steve Bono
Todd Blackledge
Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Jim Miller
Kordell Stewart
Kent Graham
Tommy Maddox

20 years without a franchise quarterback. I don't want to go through that again.

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UGH...

Neil O'Donnell was actually pretty good, and we had a system here that worked with him too. Too bad he chased the money and wound up in Jet and Bengal Suck-land. Then again, could he have lived it down his Super Bowl INTs if he had stayed? I always felt it was a shame he finished his career as a backup in TEN - he could have started somewhere.

Brister had some good moments.
O'Donnell could've had a decent career had he stayed.
Stewart would've been killer had he stayed at WR.
Jim Miller, had he had time to develop and not a part of that QB mess Cowher had, had a whole lot of potential...and if he wasnt a starter, he wouldve been a top notch back up and a trade-able commodity.
Maddox had some moments...was a nice "story."

The rest was utter garbage.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

Brister had some good moments.
O'Donnell could've had a decent career had he stayed.
Stewart would've been killer had he stayed at WR.
Jim Miller, had he had time to develop and not a part of that QB mess Cowher had, had a whole lot of potential...and if he wasnt a starter, he wouldve been a top notch back up and a trade-able commodity.
Maddox had some moments...was a nice "story."

The rest was utter garbage.

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O Donnell was nothing but the byproduct of a loaded supported cast, an elite O-line, and elite defense, a top notch running game. Super Bowl 30 and when he left Pittsburgh showed how bad he was

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

O Donnell was nothing but the byproduct of a loaded supported cast, an elite O-line, and elite defense, a top notch running game. Super Bowl 30 and when he left Pittsburgh showed how bad he was

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Except O'Donnell consistently won the QB Competitions in Hawa'ii, beating out Aikman, Young, etc. His overall gametime talent level wasn't on par with those guys but he was more than mere byproduct... he was an accurate machine who, just somehow couldn't make good adjustments when plays didn't unfold like they were supposed to. Still had the tools to be pretty good though, and on the occasions he did sub in for McNair, there was no dropoff.

O'Donnell was a dependable starter. He was what he was...kinda like Alex Smith is today.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

O'Donnell was a dependable starter. He was what he was...kinda like Alex Smith is today.

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Alex Smith is mobile. Neil was a statue.

If Neil would have stayed it wouldn't have surprised me if we had gone to another Super Bowl or two. The 96 and 97 team with Bettis didn't need much in the way of qb help and didn't get it with Tomzcak in 96. Kordell had a good year in 97 but the unsophisticated passing attack he provided never gets you to a Super Bowl.

Kordell was so mismanaged. He could have been a great wr/kr/slash... he could have even been a much better QB if we hadn't kept pretending he was supposed to be a standard pocket passer.

Anyone got a change of heart now?

Ben is never taking this team to the playoffs again. Trade him start building for the future. One more year and there wont be any value for him.

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Originally Posted by zulater

Ben is never taking this team to the playoffs again. Trade him start building for the future. One more year and there wont be any value for him.

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It would have to be a Herschel Walker type deal, and there better be a can't miss prospect at QB coming up if they trade him

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

It would have to be a Herschel Walker type deal, and there better be a can't miss prospect at QB coming up if they trade him

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What difference does it make? You're not going to the playoffs with him again. Period. You really want to invest 100 million into a qb when the team has no playoff prospects?

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Originally Posted by zulater

What difference does it make? You're not going to the playoffs with him again. Period. You really want to invest 100 million into a qb when the team has no playoff prospects?

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How about getting rid of the head coach and coordinators first?