Red zone offense

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Originally Posted by Chidi29

When do we constantly throw the ball 40 yards?

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Ok. That was an Exaggeration, but how about chucking it downfield and ignoring the check down receivers.

There is no way you can't see the joke of an offense that the Steelers run.

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

Ok. That was an Exaggeration, but how about chucking it downfield and ignoring the check down receivers.

There is no way you can't see the joke of an offense that the Steelers run.

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

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That's on Ben, no? If Arians is implementing the checkdowns and Ben isn't hitting them, how is thst on Arians? He isn't throwing the ball and can't scream "checkdown!" to Ben.

Personally, this has been Ben's best season in terms of living to fight another day and getting the ball out quick. That is credit to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

Ok. That was an Exaggeration, but how about chucking it downfield and ignoring the check down receivers.

There is no way you can't see the joke of an offense that the Steelers run.

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

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The red zone offense is a big problem.

But the Steelers scored 26.8 points per game in playoff since 2004, his hope to will continue!

The problems can be fixed and hope that Roethlisberger will be in better health...The offense is horrible since the injury of Roethlisberger.

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Originally Posted by Chidi29

That's on Ben, no? If Arians is implementing the checkdowns and Ben isn't hitting them, how is thst on Arians? He isn't throwing the ball and can't scream "checkdown!" to Ben.

Personally, this has been Ben's best season in terms of living to fight another day and getting the ball out quick. That is credit to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner.

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Great. It works between the 20's. Whatever you're accrediting to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner certainly doesn't work in the Redzone. For some reason, the other offenses that score alot (IMO the Steelers have as much talent), don't have scoring problems.

I don't know if this is on Arians or Ben. What I do know is this is that for 3 of the past 4 years, the same problems on offense are going on.

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Originally Posted by GBMelBlount

I think it has more to do with offensive line issues and poor play calling especially inside the 5 imo.

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BINGO !!!

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Originally Posted by SteelerFanInStl

It really comes down to the running game. We simply can't run the ball when the defense knows it's coming. IMO the blame for this lies on the poor OL play.

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I say use Johnson more at FB and let John Clay play the roll of "THE BUS" !

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

The offense only works between the 20's. People make fun of the Broncos offense, but they were talking on the radio today that they have scored as many touchdowns as the Steelers did this year.

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So, apparently, we have a much better defense.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

I still bet they would be better than the Steelers on offense even in those conditions.

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Doubt it.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

I still bet they would be better than the Steelers on offense even in those conditions. The Steelers have no rythm on offense at all. They barely look like they have any coordination from play to play.

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I seriously doubt that. It's been proven many times in the past that dome teams struggle mightily when they have to play outdoors on the road in January. The Colts are a prime example of this, their SB win on a rainy night in Miami notwithstanding. The Saints absolutely would struggle if they played in the same conditions the Steelers did on Sunday.

As for the lack of rhythm on offense, it would be much better if they were able to run more effectively, which means the OL actually do their jobs and run block. They have shown their passing attack is as good as any team in the league. Their running game HAS to improve if they want to be more effective in the red zone and score more TDs. It's not all on the OC, like so many want to do, directly or subtly.

Red zone offense will be very important in playoffs and the Steelers will need to improve on it.

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Originally Posted by X-Terminator

As for the lack of rhythm on offense, it would be much better if they were able to run more effectively, which means the OL actually do their jobs and run block.

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i agree the O-line has problems. i have been saying that for 10 years. how about using a FB more often instead of the single back sets?

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

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i agree. IMO, the steelers often look like a team that just showed up to play a game at a moments notice. arians has admitted he doesn't game plan against a team's weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

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I will also agree. This team rarely looks well coordinated on offense. They usually look best during a two minute offense. I dont know exactly where the cause lies, with Ben's choices or Arian's game plan or play calling. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter anymore. Any coach is ultimately judged by results. Arians offense doesn't score, hasn't scored on the past and gives no indication that it will score in the future. Who cares if Ben likes him? We need an OC that actually gets results.

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Originally Posted by BlastFurnace

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the gameplan and execution.

The Steelers have the talent, but they don't have the gameplan and execution.

They literally look like a team that hasn't put in a gameplan on offense, doesn't care what the weaknesses are on the other teams defense, and just wants to chuck it down field 40 yards.

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I could not agree more. I'm not a Arians basher, but the guy rarely seems to gameplan and admitted as much when he said they never practiced against 4-3 defenses. BUT, it's hard to fault the planning when everyone knows the Oline is scrubs, if it continues to be ignored , this problem will only get worse. Hell it's so bad our known lousy scrubs got hurt and we had to put in guys who are backups to scrubs, seriously.

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Originally Posted by NCSteeler

I could not agree more. I'm not a Arians basher, but the guy rarely seems to gameplan and admitted as much when he said they never practiced against 4-3 defenses.

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Yes, that one comment means he doesn't gameplan over anything.

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Originally Posted by X-Terminator

I seriously doubt that. It's been proven many times in the past that dome teams struggle mightily when they have to play outdoors on the road in January. The Colts are a prime example of this, their SB win on a rainy night in Miami notwithstanding.

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Facing a Rex Grossman-led Bears team didn't hurt them in that game either.

A) Long fields. Poor starting field position and lack of turnovers hurts us in the field position differential battle. Since defenses depend on attrition and making the offense repeatedly execute, the longer field requires the Steelers to SUSTAIN execution.
B) Lack of execution. Closely tied to A, since the Steelers find lots of ways to shoot themselves in the foot, execution is not a strong suit for us. Whether it's poor blocking, errant passes, a poorly run route, or even penalties, the lack of execution hurts more if your average yards to score (i.e. yards away from the EZ) is 85 instead of 65.
C) Inconsistent running game. You have GOT to be able to effectively run the ball inside the 20, especially inside the ten. Think how many times teams have smoked us on the play-action pass inside the 5, then hit a wide open WR or TE who snuck out into the EZ. That ONLY works because we fear and respect their run game. Ours isn't effective enough to work that same way because...
D) Poor blocking. Our Oline is serviceable, at best. With even an average Oline, most of what ails our offense would be rectified. They aren't great at either pass or run blocking.

Notice I did not blame Arians. The 4 things above are enough that ANY OC, Bill Walsh, Norv Turner, et al, would have trouble overcoming. It's intellectually lazy to scapegoat the OC when the above is true, and it shows a lack of knowledge of the nuances of the game.

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Originally Posted by Chidi29

Yes, that one comment means he doesn't gameplan over anything.

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And we've been practicing so for the past two years. And we're still not a strong running team, no?

Nendenhall put up YPC over 3.5, 2.1, 2.8, and 3.8 against even frons this year. Yes, there were some good games too bt those were against bad run defenses (Rams for example).

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Originally Posted by Chidi29

And we've been practicing so for the past two years. And we're still not a strong running team, no?

Nendenhall put up YPC over 3.5, 2.1, 2.8, and 3.8 against even frons this year. Yes, there were some good games too bt those were against bad run defenses (Rams for example).

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Too many times we appear to not even try to take advantage of teams weaknesses , it not just me but when you watch a ton of sports TV do you here anyone put our offense or Arians(of any year) in the conversation with creativity, willingness to adapt to the game, in game changes .The answer is a simple no. I would like to see them at least look like they put together a superior game plan

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Originally Posted by NCSteeler

Too many times we appear to not even try to take advantage of teams weaknesses , it not just me but when you watch a ton of sports TV do you here anyone put our offense or Arians(of any year) in the conversation with creativity, willingness to adapt to the game, in game changes .

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Yes. As a matter of fact, Gruden was quite effusive with praise for his playcalling earlier this year.

I don't know where the false meme started that Arians doesn't exploit the opponents weakness. If I say I saw Bigfoot, it doesn't mean he exists...

They need to make a commitment to running the ball. The more reps your linemen get the better they get at it. Lots of teams get pass-happy and abandon the run, then start stalling drives. I'm not saying 60-40 run-pass, but get away from only running when it's safe; go for those running plays on 2nd-and-8.

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Originally Posted by suitanim

I don't know where the false meme started that Arians doesn't exploit the opponents weakness. If I say I saw Bigfoot, it doesn't mean he exists...

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He made a passing comment the preseason before last about preparing for 4-3 defenses that the pitchfork-and-torch-wielding crowd picked up and has run with ever since which has also morphed into "he doesn't gameplan for other teams' weaknesses."

Of course, conveniently overlooked during the same preseason (hell, the same WEEK) was Sean Payton's eagerness about holding extra scrimmages against the Patriots before their preseason game against them since the Saints rarely faced 3-4 defenses (and presumably rarely, if ever, practiced against, since they run a 4-3):

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Before Thursday night’s game against the Patriots, the Saints spent the previous two days in the New England area in practice sessions with Bill Belichick‘s well-coached squad. Saints coach Sean Peyton said he wanted to get lots of work against a 3-4 defense because his team will play at least five opponents this season that employ a 3-4 scheme.

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Gee, you think that might be because it may be just a wee bit more effective to practice for a certain base defense against a team that actually employs that base defense with the personnel to effectively run it? Just maybe? http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...ies/coffee.gif

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Originally Posted by NCSteeler

Too many times we appear to not even try to take advantage of teams weaknesses , it not just me but when you watch a ton of sports TV do you here anyone put our offense or Arians(of any year) in the conversation with creativity, willingness to adapt to the game, in game changes .The answer is a simple no. I would like to see them at least look like they put together a superior game plan

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Who cares who says what? It's about what they do, their actions.

All I see here are some vague phrases that have been said a hundred times ago yet very rarely are there specific examples to back it up.

arians also said,

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"In years past, we wouldn't even practice it," Arians said. "We would just go play them. It is a real disadvantage to the offensive line."

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but of course that's the fault of the players according to arians' stormtroopers

the article goes on to say

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Seven of the Steelers' worst rushing performances a year ago came against 4-3 teams. Their five best rushing days (202 against Miami, 177 against San Diego, 173 against Denver, 152 against Baltimore, 140 against Cleveland) came against the 3-4

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hmmm...again it's the fault of those players for not setting up their own practice. who would of thought that practicing against your upcoming opponent's defensive set would be beneficial?

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"If you don't practice against it, then you aren't going to get better," tackle Max Starks said.

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yep. football 101

i wish i could find the article where arians says he does not let a team's weaknesses change his game plan. we all know his game plan too. it's called "we would just go play them". :lol:

here is part of an article on the steelers deciding not to follow their original game plan against colts small, quick defense

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Throughout practices last week, the Steelers worked on a power-based rushing attack. Yet in the first half Sunday against Indianapolis, many of the runs called were long-developing stretch and counter plays. The result was Mendenhall having 10 carries for 10 yards at halftime against the undersized but speedy Colts defense.

"We had some matchups that we liked, with them having (six defenders) in the box," said Mendenhall, who added he wasn't sure why the game plan changed.

"We've got to play to our guys' strengths. We've got some big guys who can move you out of the way. That's a small, slanting-style of defense, so you try to run outside on the edge against them? We played to their strength and our weakness. That's a hard thing to do."

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play to our guys strengths? no way. just call any play. if the plays fails blame it on execution aka the players.


when all is said and done, arians, other coaches, FO and the players share in the blame. this belief on here that arians is without blame is absurd.

Anyone know what our redzone numbers are over the past 4-5 years? Just curious if this a trend or aberration?

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

arians also said, but of course that's the fault of the players according to arians' stormtroopers

the article goes on to say hmmm...again it's the fault of those players for not setting up their own practice. who would of thought that practicing against your upcoming opponent's defensive set would be beneficial?

yep. football 101p

i wish i could find the article where arians says he does not let a team's weaknesses change his game plan. we all know his game plan too. it's called "we would just go play them". :lol:

here is part of an article on the steelers deciding not to follow their original game plan against colts small, quick defense

play to our guys strengths? no way. just call any play. if the plays fails blame it on execution aka the players.


when all is said and done, arians, other coaches, FO and the players share in the blame. this belief on here that arians is without blame is absurd.

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Excellent post!

What it boils down to is that either we, as fans, completely overrate the Steelers offensive players...or the gameplans implemented simply are not effective.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

this belief on here that arians is without blame is absurd.

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It's also 100% incorrect. Nobody has said that. It's the staunch belief of the "Pitchfork and Torches" crowd that Arians is to blame for EVERYTHING, which is what is absurd. Ben throws a pick into heavy coverage? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Redman/Mendenhall loses a fumble? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Kemo commits a stupid penalty to kill a drive? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. It's NEVER the players' fault. Yet when something works, is Arians ever given so much as one iota of credit? Nope. When things work, it's because of the super duper awesomeness of our players and in spite of Arians the moron.

Another illustrative point is the fact that my point about Payton the offensive genius wanting extra practices against the Patriots in order to get more reps against an actual 3-4 defense went completely ignored. But then, it's not surprising either.

There is no doubt that the Steelers FO has failed to secure the kind of starting offensive line necessary to guarantee success. Good playcalling and loads of talent at the skill positions help to cover some of this, but certainly it's not enough. Otherwise we'd score more points than we do...

But, again, there are other factors. Field position and lack of turnovers (which obviously contribute to poor field position) are two big ones.

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Originally Posted by fansince'76

It's also 100% incorrect. Nobody has said that. It's the staunch belief of the "Pitchfork and Torches" crowd that Arians is to blame for EVERYTHING, which is what is absurd. Ben throws a pick into heavy coverage? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Redman/Mendenhall loses a fumble? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. Kemo commits a stupid penalty to kill a drive? Arians' idiot playcalling is to blame. It's NEVER the players' fault. Yet when something works, is Arians ever given so much as one iota of credit? Nope. When things work, it's because of the super duper awesomeness of our players and in spite of Arians the moron.

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Not necessarily. As an example, when Brady throws an INT in the Redzone, it's a bad play...but he's not winning games 13-9 against Cleveland because he can't put the ball in the endzone. Brady has 39 touchdowns this year, so the occasional RZ INT can be overcome. It's not on their OC, because the system and execution are there. The Steelers simply cannot put up points after reaching the Redzone. It's the same with the other successful offenses in the league.

We don't have pitchforks. We do believe that there is too much talent on this offense to see it struggle as much as it does. But, like I said above, if it's not on Arians, we as fans have completely overrated the players on offense.