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Originally Posted by Born2Steel
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:jawdrop2: :jawdrop2: :jawdrop2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
This is the actual post you cherry picked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
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Not many fans did hate Kenny. Kenny did this, not the fans. When Russ was signed, KP asked to be traded rather than sit behind a HoF QB for part of a season or even a season. The day we ALL found out Russ would be a Steeler, KP cancelled his workout with the WRs and went to Omar and asked to be traded. Kenny created this mess we seem to keep arguing over. I honestly don’t care about KP anymore. He has moved on, so have I.
This is the ridiculous sentence you wrote that you're now trying to distance yourself from:Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Not at all. Just including the entire context. As you should do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
True, watt needs to stay healthy for once. And they need to be able to stop the run. Which I hope Queen can help with. It’s a one year shot to me with this Wilson signing. After 2024 I think it’s downhill. This QB change was a gamble imo by letting KP go without a proper evaluation and picking up a former star on the downside of his career with hopefully one good year left. I don’t see the bust label many on this site are putting on KP. Not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
I know there have been some that have said they consider KP a bust. That should not be applied to all that think the Russ signing was a good thing. I think KP could have learned and developed behind Russell Wilson. At least for part of the season. But he didn’t want to do that. And that is the part where I go to odds with KP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
You’re wasting your time if you’re trying to talk with another Steelers fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
KP is not a "bust". If you go back and read the pre-draft scouting reports from all corners of the internet...about 60-80% of them had KP being exactly what he has been to date in the NFL. Better than a career back-up and not capable of elevating a team as a full-time starter. Some call that a "system" QB. Some call it a "third round prospect". Pick from those or another label. Whatever floats you boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
What did "bust" is the Steelers' internal evaluation. They drafted KP like he was a QB that could elevate the roster as a starter. And that is not the case. They won't be the first or the last team to do it.
None of this is likely KP's fault. He didn't do anything right or wrong. It is just that he was a combination of over-drafted and consigned to a bad situation where he didn't have the "system" around him needed to succeed.
Personally, I think there is some behind the scenes stuff that went on during the 2023 season that soured his teammates and coaches on KP. Something off the field and attitude driven. After his first season the entire rest of the roster would've run through a wall for him. After his second season; few seemed to want to play with him.
KP is not a "bust". The Steelers never even bothered with the guy long enough to even call him one. Should've put the guy out there his rookie year, and let him swim or sink himself, then you get a fascimilie of his ability and whether or not it works moving forward. Instead he got the Mason Rudolph treatment and was left to the second-third stringers. Why even draft a QB in the first round in the first place?
Okay, so you want Kenny to sit for a year, but then Tomlin's .500 record was in danger, and they blew that by starting him cold off the bench against the Jets. Here Kenny, go save the season. We get to 9-8 and Kenny has some decent performances. Not great, but we strung together some wins.
The mismanagement and QB musical chairs is a complete coaching/organizational failure, and I fear Tomlin is going to continue the game with Russ and Fields. Neither are looked at as a long-term answer. As the saying goes: When you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterback, and I predict either one of them will end 2024 souring on Tomlin and the team as well.
By "QB musical chairs", do you mean because all 3 QBs played last season?Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
His trajectory is bust. Just a couple years riding the pine in Philly and he'll be fully there. It's a reality. What's different between him and Bush, Burns, et al? If you're a Pitt fan it must make you more sensitive, but I'm not worried about it. It was a bad pick. Life goes on. It's not like he was a top 3 pick.
That's the way I see it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
to your last paragraph, i agree overall, looks like the whole locker room soured because the offensive ineptitude. Maybe KP allowed his teammates frustration to be directed toward him as well as Canada. Tough situation for a rookie Qb to be in. He probably thought 2023 was not his fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I’ll remember that the guy had his best game of the season in that cinci game after canada was fired. And he never got a second chance after that. I call that an unfinished evaluation. And that will be how his steelers career ends - evaluation incomplete. It’ll be interesting to see where his career goes from here.
i never liked the idea of an nfl Qb throwing the ball with gloves anyway.
I don't think I would list Pickett as a bust as of now. However, I think the term is overused. Just my definition, but I reserve the term bust for players that are drafted high and prove unable to play with anywhere near their pre-draft skill at their position. Additionally, there are players that might not quite live up to expectations but still manage to have a good career which I don't think makes them a bust.
Even if Pickett is backup most of his career but has later career resurgence, where he is able to put a good starter and maybe has some playoff success, I personally wouldn't consider that a busted career.
Like I said that's just my definition.
Now clearly the pick didn't work for the Steelers. How much of that blame belongs to the Steelers and how much to Pickett (both imo) is the eternal debate of this thread.
The only way anyone will know if Pickett was a bust is if he get's starting time, and that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
Josh Rosen was drafted 10 spots higher than Pickett and started only 16 games. People feel confident calling him a bust.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcityboyz
The Cardinals were so not sold on Rosen that they moved on from him in the very next draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
Sometimes you just know. It's not a team's obligation to give a quarterback every chance to succeed. It's the quarterback's job to make the most of every opportunity. That's what Pickett failed to do because of his entitled attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by lipps83
We will see if Fields or Wilson will be the answer or not but one thing is certain it would have been a big mistake if Pickett would have been our starter with Rudolph as backup for another year...It would have been as bad as when they kept Canada for another year even if everyone knew he was historically bad...The Steelers' biggest mistake with Pickett was to draft him in 2022
For his game against the Bengals, it was a good game for him but still only 16 points...Rudolph had helped the Steelers to score 34 points a month later against this same Bengals team....Also the following game against the Bengals, it was more of the same vs cards...only 3 points with 5 minutes left in the second quarter before his injury...It was against 2 awful defense...it was time for a change
Pickett didn’t fail because of an entitled attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
He failed because he had the worst OC in the NFL for 23 of his 25 games. The biggest issue with Kenny was injury. He got injured at the worst time when he had a chance to show everyone he could ball without Canada’s horrible play calling.
Had nothing to do with entitlement. That doesn’t even make sense.
Are we going to act like DJ didn’t drop a TD and then watch Warren fumble on the next play and do nothing? 30 games without 400 yards and the first game without Canada we have 400+ yards of offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
Go back and watch Mason’s play with Canada at QB vs a winless Lions team. 30/50.. no TD’s, 1INT and 16 points. You will also see fumbles by Muth and DJ that game.
Its the same type of game when Canada calls plays.
Biggest mistake was bringing Canada back in 2022.
They like to talk about the Tomlin haters here, But there's a fair share of Pickett haters here too. Makes no difference to me, Kenny is a Eagle now.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Kenny Pickett failed because he quit. When he had the chance to prove how good he was against real competition he quit the first day. Called his WRs and cancelled their workout and told the team he wanted out. THAT is why Kenny Pickett failed in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
That and he’s just not very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
The conspiracies wrapped in lies and shrouded in nonsense being bandied about by all sides have drifted far from the facts.
I’m not accusing you of this. Just pointing out that the unavoidable reality is that for 39/53 college games and like 23/25 pro games, Kenny Pickett was not a very good QB.
Unless Canada was also to blame for his first four years at Pitt, KP is EXACTLY what the vast majority of his games played demonstrated; a good NFL backup.
What’s the difficulty of acknowledging that?
This is very hard for some...My biggest concern on him in 2022 was his ceilling was too lowQuote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I think the one struggling the most to accept it are also pitt panther fans.
I have wondered if that was the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
Wilson didnt sign here to be a backup. I think the steelers gave assurance that he would be the starter and i think kenny knew that. I dont think it had anything to do with being afraid of fair competition.
and he had 280 yards passing against cinci with 300+ yards and a TD by rights if DJ does his job. Thats a very good game. One that he might’ve built upon if he didnt get hurt
I dont necessarily agree with him wanting out, but i certainly understand it.
Well he got what he wanted. I hope he’s happy with his decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Does any of this armchair psychology and speculative palace intrigue stories really matter? We will never know what got said to who when and how. Nor will we know how everyone felt about it. And so what?
We have some tangible football realities to go off of.
1. KP has a long track record of mediocre to below average on the field production for a QB.
2. Wilson has a longer track record of above average or better on the field production.
3. Fields has better athletic traits and arm strength than either KP or Wilson coupled with shaky on the field results.
I feel those are fairly reasonable statements of trying to sum up complex contexts for each player in one short sentence.
While I do not think it will have the short and long term outcomes the Steelers are most likely hoping for....I can not be too upset about swapping out an average athlete with poor on field results and questions about his processing for one potentially declining athlete with high level on field production in his past with few questions about how he sees the game and a phenomenal athlete (who is the same age as KP) with significant question marks about his decision making.
The biggest question(s) I have about the 2024 and beyond QB situation for the team is that I do not believe that Wilson is a good fit for what Smith likes to run and I am not confident that he has a great deal of gas left in the tank. Further, I am not certain that Fields will ever learn to think fast enough and trust what he sees quickly enough to allow his immense physical abilities to take over.
I think pivoting to Wilson-Fields is a risky move. If it pays out, even partially, the Steelers "win" big from having an answer at the most important position on the roster for next to no cost. I also, honestly, believe that it has a significant chance of crapping out, ending the Tomlin era, and kicking off a true tear down and rebuild of the entire roster.
While those are significant concerns and serious question marks that could impact the short and long term plans of the team, I don't think Pickett provided any better answers or increased risk avoidance.