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Against such a lousy team, we shouldn't have to worry Bout one bobble. This should have been a total blow out.Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince'76
Also I wish people would quit comparing Tomlin to Cowher . Not getting Cowher back, we have to evaluate Tomlin for what he has done period.
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Losing Sunday to a decimated Ravens team with a walk-in QB, in a critical game to boot, was the last straw for me. For the 5th season in a row, the Steelers have not produced any meaningful result considering the talent they have and something must be done to address the most glaring problems. This includes preparing mentally and technically for the games, putting the right players on the field (aka benching the underperformers) as well as making the necessary adjustments during the game. That's entirely on the coaching staff, starting with Tomlin.
More and more i wish that fanbase get some of the following names: Josh McDaniels, Rob Ryan, Chip Kelly, Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino, Eric Mangini, Mike Mularkey, Mike Singletary... Plese feel free to add to the list your sugestions.
I'd take Tomlin over every one of those guys every day...not even thinking twice about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drazo85
If they were to fire Tomlin, I'd prefer they go with a younger Coordinator type.
I never say Tomlin was one of the worst coach in the NFL.But the last few years have been disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drazo85
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
Exactly. That's the problem with the tired old go-to question:
"WELL IF YOU DONT LIKE TOMLIN WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE?????? HUH??? HUH??????"
"(insert name of NFL coach who is better)"
"YEAH BUT HES NOT GOING ANYWHERE, WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THATS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOWWWWW ITS ALL LOSERS AND GUYS WHO JUST GOT FIRED!!!!!!! SEE???? SEE??? I TOLD YOU THERES NO ONE BETTER!!!!!!!"
Well, of course. That's always who's available when that question is asked in the middle of the season. Good coaches tend to have jobs.
The people who ask that question will settle for nothing less than a recent Super Bowl winning coach as an acceptable response - usually not even that - and it's not like coaches win the Super Bowl and in that same offseason just go "Whoopty-doo, I'm leaving for no reason!"
So the only thing you can really do when people say that is ignore it as a stupid rhetorical question, because that's what it is. All of the top NFL coaches weren't always top NFL coaches; at one point they were coordinators, assistants, or college coaches. That's probably where you're going to find your next guy, not poaching an established coach in the blockbuster steal of the century.
It amazes me that the same people who make a big deal about the Steelers being realistic in free agency, and love to wag their finger at you, "tut-tut, everyone knows you win by building from within or through the draft; you're not going to get a franchise QB in his prime as a free agent" ... are also the ones who insist on the exact opposite for coaches. Well,which one is it, dumbass?
Just because there are plenty of shitty coaches out there doesn't mean that we should be satisfied with Tomlin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drazo85
Most of these teams that can't win are missing a major ingredient, and that's a franchise QB. What other team with a franchise QB hasn't won a playoff game in the last 5 years? (I haven't researched this so I'm actually curious what the results are)
The truth is that Tomlin simply isn't getting it done with the talent that's been given to him.
Don Shula managed to miss the playoffs 4 seasons in a row (1986-1989) despite having Dan Marino in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerFanInStl
FIRE DON SHULA!!!
How many Super Bowls did Shula win with Marino? That's right, 0. Maybe he should've been fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler
Shula was a very good coach at his start of his career(1963 to 1985), but sometimes you have to make a change when things are not working anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler
No Super Bowl win with Marino is one thing, but the fact that Miami has very rarely compete for a Super Bowl after 1985 in a very weak AFC was very disappointing.
The Tomlin apologists are sounding a lot like the Kordell apologists
All his talk is mostly crap without results on the field. That's the bottom line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H56E12tPiacQuote:
Originally Posted by ALLD
Well, here's how the conversation started:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoes
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Originally Posted by Steel Peon
Now to be fair, I guess there was a slight misunderstanding on what I meant by "in on 1 play," and by that I meant actually had some form of action taken on 1 play. Just so happens, it was actually the 1 play I must've been looking away at something else, because for the life of me I couldn't remember it, and many people on this board (and others) swore that he'd missed a tackle on a 3rd and something that would've forced a punt. Well, I manage to find a "replay" of the game and I can now tell everyone who saw Blake miss a tackle that indeed you were right, at 13:17 in the 2Q on a 3rd & 3 around the Balt 47 yd line Blake makes contact with the receiver behind the 1st down marker and weakly allows them to escape and get the 1st down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoes
So now to resolve the misunderstanding Shoes, you're right that he was in the game for 41 snaps, that much is irrefutable. However, you don't have to find me any clips because I just watched the entire Steeler defensive summary of the game, and you know what I found? That 1 missed tackle of Blake's was the only play of the game in which he was in on that he had any effect on. So, if you saw any more than that, then you imagined it, which appears to be the case. Don't feel bad because I've seen other people doing the same thing here and there, so it's semi-contagious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoes
So what are we gonna do ?Pull apart or come together ? Each way you choose to go has it's pitfalls. You can never win every season .I have been a follower since 1972 and we never won nothin. But I guess when you finally reach that plane you develop your very own expectations to remain there. I think sometimes we do not give credit to the other teams that are striving to be like us .Can you really blame them for wanting to have a legacy such as ours ?
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Originally Posted by Steel Peon
I couldn't find any clips and was hoping I could find instead, missed tackle stats on Steelers in this game, but nothing yet. I appreciate you reporting back, I was sure I saw Blake missing more than 1 tackle. I suppose if he would have played the entire game I would have been correct. :chuckle: But Blake is well over 30 missed tackles at this point, i would like to know how many points that translates to.
PFF has the CB's rated overall.... 0-59 replaceable, 60-69 backup, 70-84 starter, 85-89 pro bowler, 90-100 elite
Boykin - 80
Cockrell - 79.1 Ranked 30
Gay -76.3 Ranked 40
Blake - 31.7 Ranked 118
C. Allen - 30.2
Coaches are supposed to put people in a place prepared to succeed .
The fourth-down miss to Wheaton came when Wheaton turned inside to look for the ball while Roethlisberger threw outside, a play in which the Steelers lined Wheaton up on the outside rather than his usual spot in the slot in search of an advantage. Instead a miscommunication gave Baltimore a chance to bleed all but the game's final 7 seconds.
Not change things up with a forth down game ending play on the line. This is the time you pull out your most reliable well executed play not change things up. Wtf
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I can read lips. I saw Tomlin tell Martavis Bryant to drop that third down pass.
True story.
I swore I saw the same but just thought I Was seeing things. I also bought I Saw him on several occasions mouth: "Put Blake In" and at one point ask "Where's Mike Vick?".Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
:rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
He did indeed say all of that.
He also said to Villanueva: "Ben beat me at checkers; let the DE crush his knees!!!"
0-35 should be the "Blake line" Similar to baseball's Mendoza lineQuote:
Originally Posted by Shoes
Just classic 007 games. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre
:toofunny: That made me laugh audibly. Well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelman
Gee. If only we had the entire store of human knowledge at our fingertips. The better research question is which 5 coaches (hell even 3) active in the NFL right now that would have handled the adversity that Tomlin has guided this team and others through as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerFanInStl
Harbaugh? Which one - the one that quit on the NFL after losing his locker room, or the one who lost his starting QB and had ZERO answers and basically let his team tank.
Sean Payton? He would never call dumb plays like Haley. He would manage the clock better than Tomlin. Oh yeah. His team is terrible despite obliterating their salary cap.
And Reid? Next.
Jason Garrett? Lost his starting QB and blankly oversaw a tailspin of a season. Just kept doing the same things hoping it would get better.
Rex Ryan? I'm sure his emotional antics on the sidelines and his wacky press conferences would endear him to many around here, but his teams are garbage.
Whatever dirtball is wasting Phillip Rivers in San Diego.
Coughlin? Anyone watch the Giants play? They are an almost total disaster.
McCarthy because the Packers are good. Well. Here's the thing. They lost one WR. One. And the offense has stunk all year. That's with a healthy Aaron Rodgers and a healthy offensive line. Anyone think that the offense here would simply fail to score points and move the ball if they lost AB? I bet it would really suffer, but not cease to exist. And, yes, McCarthy is calling the plays again and it hasn't gotten better.
Now that is just going through the teams that are supposed to be kinda good. We haven't even talked about bad teams yet. I know I sound like a broken record, but where are these coaches that are consistently doing so much better?
Tomlin and Haley can be infuriating at times, but it isn't like they are bringing up the back of the pack across the league.
I haven't taken the time to read through almost 20 pages of this thread, but I will say this. Which of the following is really surprising?
1. The Steelers pass rush is only any good when the other team is down 2+ scores and they can make opposing offenses one dimensional. A rookie, an aging hero, and the same cast of dirtballs that didn't get it done last season.
2. Change the cast, but the result is the same. Anyone physically capable enough to make an NFL roster can have their way with this secondary. Wasn't this what we all thought prior to the season?
3. Roethlisberger has about 1-2 WTF games per year. This past game was one of those. He was awful. The Steelers are not talented enough to overcome that anymore.
But, I'm guessing that if Tomlin didn't have the team come out flat, made a good speech or two, benched Blaykrell (3 three headed monster of CB suck), told Haley to do something different than he was doing, and the Steelers tried to get the first down and not the "splash" play - they would have won. Did I get it right? Oh. I almost forgot. Bryant needs to grow a pair of hairy nuts and make tough catches.
Blaykrell 3 headed monster of CB suck LMAO. Always love your posts Moj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Wrong question. The next coach of the Steelers is 99% likely to be someone who is not and has never been an NFL coach at this point in time. So that's pretty much a rhetorical line used to dig in one's heels and set up arguments that are unwinnable for either side. Kind of like the tried and true "Well we're just fans and they're professionals, so if you don't trust that the front office knows what they're doing better than you do, you're automatically delusional" bit.
The right question is: What has Tomlin been doing over the past 3-4 years (the time when the "Cowher's players" argument stopped being a thing) that is special and most other coaches could not do? Still waiting for anyone to come up with a good answer to that.
Throw in mostly poor player development, an apparent lack of involvement in a lot of situations involving the front office or assistants, and some good, old-fashioned stubbornness and a lot of empty words, and you've really not got a convincing case he's more than about a .500 football coach, or likely worse than that if he didn't have the HUGE advantage of a top-5 quarterback for his entire coaching career so far. Average. That's about all I'm willing to concede. And there are lots of people who can do an average job. There is nothing special about Tomlin.
What has Tomlin done that warrants retaining his position?
1 Superbowl victoryQuote:
Originally Posted by ALLD
2 Superbowl bids
8-8 or better through a following rebuilding cycle
2 years or less between any playoff berth
in the years without playoffs, either lost playoff berth by tiebreaker or was the last team to miss the playoffs (highest team wins without making playoffs)
Tied to previous - competing every year for a playoff berth in December
One of the single biggest reasons we are continually competitive since the 1970s is the consistency of coaches. Turnover of coaches means turnover of scheme. Turnover of scheme means turnover of roster for new scheme (elements of...). Turnover of roster means another 3-5 years of rebuilding, since we do are still a "Build from the draft" mentality team.
Yep. I'm tired of the excuses. If the rest of you want to settle for mediocrity, then go for it. I won't. I'm sure that some people will say "Steeler fans are spoiled". Yea, that may be but the definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing even though it isn't working. We need to change it up. We need to make the most of Ben's last years in the NFL and bring another championship to the Steel City.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
Tomlin is nothing more than talk and false bravado. He talks a good game. That's what got him the job. Unfortunately he can't back it up with results.
My point was not about who is or is not going to be the next coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. That can be addressed and debate when and if the Rooneys announce a firing or resignation.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelreserve
My point is that I do not believe it is useful or interesting to compare and evaluate the performance of the sports teams I follow, their players, and/or their coaches against either arbitrary or standards lacking in context. As I have repeatedly argued, the only context for evaluating an NFL franchise, is a comparison to the other NFL franchises. That was the point of my list of coaches and my evaluation of their performance/circumstances.
Of course we can invent a coach and a standard. I put forth that Mahde Uppe (he is a French speaking foreigner - I know right?) will be an awesome next coach of the Steelers. His positive qualities include:
1. Answering media questions in such exacting and specific detail that there ceases to be any internet speculation about the Steelers. Complete "behind the scenes" knowledge by every fan for every decision. As a result, no free agents want to the play for the team. Allegations that Coach Mahde Uppe airs too much "internal discussions" and that certain issues "shouldn't leave the locker room".
2. Yells at everyone. All the time. Fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers find themselves conflicted. They are considering replacing their Cowher shrines with one to a weird little French guy. Confusing and troubling times abound in the Steel City.
3. Never uses his "gut". In fact, it is rumored that he has had it removed so he can't be tempted. Instead refers to a laminated sheet that lists the infamous "percentages" and highlights the "smart play". Occasionally, interacts with Twitter followers during the game to confirm that going for it on 4th and short is a bit too "splashy". Since their is nothing to talk about regarding the team's strategies and roster moves, most Steelers message boards focus on how Coach Mahde Uppe absorbs nutrients without a gut.
4. Oddly, Coach Mahde Uppe's teams go 0-16 each year. No one can figure out why a vanilla boring coach with total transparency into team affairs and the least innovative playbook in the league doesn't do better. Fans of the Steelers are perplexed and can't figure out what to be mad about. They got everything they wanted, but the team is worse than before. Talk of needing to bring in more "Tomlin Guys" is heard for the first time. The internet explodes and humanity goes back to using printing presses.
See, Mike Tomlin is the cornerstone of western civilization! Seriously, I am confounded by how anyone looked at this roster prior to the season and said anything besides : "There goes a 9-7 team, maybe 10-6. IF everything breaks their way, maybe, just maybe, 11-5." Then absolutely NOTHING broke their way and they are still going to finish 10-6.
Where there really other expectations?