Truly bizarre how enamored you are with a guy you described as “a damn good backup “. Steelers are striving for more than mediocrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
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Truly bizarre how enamored you are with a guy you described as “a damn good backup “. Steelers are striving for more than mediocrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
I agree Khan is the GM but lets not act like a 17 year HC isn’t also involved in these decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
Mason made the right move to test FA. No way I’m committing to a team who played Trubisky ahead of me twice. We were also free to see what else is out there while Mason shopped.
I just hope our QB moves pan out. If they don’t folks will wonder if we suck at evaluating QB’s.
oh I wholeheartedly believe they have conversations , I just dont think hanging personnel decisions on the head football coach is the way to go about framing an argument when the team has a GM that has that as part of his job description as at the end of the day that makes it his final call to make (unless ownership trumps him ) ... and I refuse to blame the team when the player publicly states he wants to test the market ....... as for trusting the teams ability to evaluate QBS , I wouldn't disagree completely with that assessment in terms to how college players translate to the pros .... but after that is where I waffle about it ...Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Thing that I have convinced myself must be the reason for Mason rotting on the bench behind everyone else for so long must be he looks the same in practice now as he did back when Duck beat him out for the job when Ben was down ... come game time he was able to step up , unlike anything he had done in the past thus was an unknown quantity with this new found ability to step up ....
other than that I just don't know
Its not the Qb evaluations as much as the ability to select coordinators. Lately the Steelers have been atrocious there. Maybe Arthur Smith is a better pick and pans out.
I’ve long suspected that the Steelers internally pegged Rudolph’s ceiling as X. And then judged other options as having a lower floor than X but a potentially far higher ceiling. They were wrong and it bit them in the ass. But I do think they properly evaluated Rudolph’s ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
I am not "enamored" with Rudolph, he's just a guy who has been mis-evaluated for years by Steeler coaches, fans, and members of the media, who basically said he was so bad he wasn't even a good backup and didn't even belong in the league. This past season he finally got another chance and showed that he was a lot better than some of these people (including the coaches) thought he was. But some of these people consider themselves master football evaluators and don't want to admit that he proved them wrong, so they ignore his performance from last year and continue bashing and downgrading him so they can claim they were right all along. Whenever I encounter one of those people I do my best to call them out for what they are doing and set them straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanstogie
Thing that I have convinced myself must be the reason for Mason rotting on the bench behind everyone else for so long must be that the head coach doesn't know shit about evaluating quarterbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
Interesting how, according to the Tomlin apologists, Tomlin isn't really responsible for anything. He's not responsible for hiring coaches such as Canada, that was forced on him by Rooney. And he's not responsible for personnel decisions, the final call on that is the GM. Yet somehow when something goes right. it's Tomlin who took the Steelers to two Super Bowls and won one, and it's Tomlin who's never had a losing season. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
We win as a franchise and lose as a franchise. Folks say Ben won 2 SB’s. He didn’t do it by himself. Its just the way folks talk about players and coaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
Anyone who tries to use that against folks is just being lazy.
Ben Hater :chuckle:Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Pitchers don't win games by themselves in baseball, but they get credited with wins and losses nonetheless. I'd say that a quarterback at least has equal impact on the game of football as a pitcher does in baseball. Pickett is kind of like the pitcher who is 14-10 but with an ERA of 5.35. You know the winning isn't sustainable.
KP’s stats should come with an asterisk.
And maybe thats the reason the Bills resigned Mitch. Cause they know he's not as bad as what he showed playing in canada’s system.
This is getting ridiculous.
Pickett, Rudolph, and Trubisky are all not very good QBs.
Yet in service of some argument about Tomlin I can barely follow, we’re now on our way to arguing that Trubisky is good?
Cmon.
Trubisky has a job because he’s cheap, he’s still got that first round draft pick status, and he’s willing to play vaguely like the Bills entrenched starter.
Plus he's familiar with the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Mtn.
No matter what, the Steelers are a better roster without Trubisky on it.
did Canada make or not make those guys look bad or worse than they are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
It is possible to make a bad qb look even worse than he is.
Only if you foolishly assume that a young talented pitcher with an ERA of 5.35 isn't going to get better.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
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Best idea I've heard here in months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
sure bad can look down right awful , that said is bad good enough to even be on the roster to begin with if you are serious about collecting hardware?
bad should never be your ceiling on a roster that is serious
But you still have a bad QB. That’s the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Endlessly debating the exact portions of the source of the bad is irrelevant.
Mason Rudolph, Mitch Trubisky, and Kenny Pickett are not the starting QBs on good NFL teams. They just simply are not good enough.
Talking about the imagined mean girls scenarios that lead to each departing the roster is just silly.
Fans should be celebrating that their favorite team is no longer attached to any of those bad QBs.
I just don't get it how seemingly some are still holding on to complain that we should have stuck with him to make sure he could be a bottom 5 starter in the league instead of a backup elsewhere ... and some say it as if we owed it to him ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
newsflash teams do not owe players anything but their paycheck , players do however owe the team in order to continue to get said paycheck
Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
It’s like any other employer-employee relationship.
Loyalty is just a thing that sounds good in press conferences. That’s not real.
Notice how no one either demonstrates loyalty to or demands loyalty from not highly talented players? Weird.
You guys (Moj and Dwins) think KP is a bad Qb - end of story. But some of us think the book is still out on him, especially since he was tied to the worst OC the steelers have ever had, certainly in the modern era. I think thats the whole source of this argument.
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As far as Wilson, yeah, looking forward to it, and as happy as one could be for a one or two year rental of a HOF Qb on his last legs.
I keep hearing this on his last legs , he is slow , he cant run anymore etc etc frame it however ya like but I cant help but still see this ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Oct 22 2023
https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/...cos-vs-packers
Oct 8 2023
<strong>https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/...roncos-vs-jets
I think some are suggesting we owed it to ourselves to give KP a chance without Canada on a cheap contract before moving on. Getting injured is KP’s fault, he could’ve shown he was legit in those last 6 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
But if Russ and Fields don’t work.. then we have to wonder if we just suck at developing and evaluating QB’s.
I still think we are being cheap and conservative by spending less, hoping for more.. all while hiring an old OC with outdated views of offense in 2024. Word is he didn’t do a good job getting the ball to the best players in the RZ which is why he was fired. Hopefully its just his inability as a HC and not his philosophy on offense.
and what move have we made on offense besides QB that sparks excitement? 2 players from Atlanta? lol
Ok. Let’s say Canada killed QB talent due to his horrible system. In theory, that should be a roughly equivalent impact on any given QB. So like a X % reduction in any given QB’s innate ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Then accounting for the “Canada Factor”, I think most would agree with these rankings:
1. Old Man Ben
2. Yawning Chasm
3. Mason Rudolph
4. Kenny Pickett
5. Mitch Trubisky
So that means Pickett is a little bit less gooder than the best version of Rudolph and better than Trubisky?
So what? That’s still a pretty dang bad NFL starter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Why is Mason ranked higher?
In the one game Mason played with Canada as OC he went 30/50 for 242 yards with 1TD and 1INT… this includes 10 minutes of overtime and we couldn’t beat a winless Lions team. We scored 1 TD and kicked 3 FG’s.
This is a prime example of the Canada Factor.
You are giving Mason credit for games he didn’t play with Canada and totally erased his one game where he didn't impress.
Ok. So he’s better than Rudolph.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
The guy who was considering leaving the league due to lack of interest in his services.
That still means that KP is below the line for a quality NFL starter.
There’s just no tangible facts that point to KP as a diamond in the rough.
I can actually make this far far simpler than anything else I’ve posted on this.
31 other professional football teams were aware KP was available.
And precisely zero of them wanted to get KP in their building to fight for a starting job.
Take a look at some the dudes perched atop QB depth charts around the league. It’s not exactly a pantheon of olympians we’re looking at here.
That should tell all of us what we need to know.
AmenQuote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Except KP requested a trade and one team was willing to bite on it. Kenny wasn't "available".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Except those other guys had a chance to play for other coordinators with varying degrees of success or failure. KP didnt, except for one game against cinci - thats the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I don't see how you can separate his performance from Canada's scheme. We just don’t know how much he was directed by canada. Did he himself miss open receivers or did he not even look for them per canada’s direction? I’m not even confident Tomlin, Sully or Faulkner knows that answer for sure.
True. Any roster is better without him on it..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
You can also argue that 31 other football teams were aware that Wilson and Fields were also available too, and the only team that ended up with both were the Steelers.. Luck or the other teams just weren't interested?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Wilson was a FA and chose his team.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcityboyz
Fields has been passed on by all other teams as well. And for good reasons.
I’ve repeatedly said that I’m not keen on Wilson or Fields.
But that doesn’t mean that KP is somehow good either.
And I’m trying to stick to the established facts. Not what if scenarios or projections of future play.
Wilson is an aging QB with a game dependent on not aging.
Fields is mentally slow and prone to turnovers.
KP is a bundle of poor habits and tendencies that he’s not a good enough athlete to get away with at the NFL level.
Rudolph is at best just a guy.
I know I’m involved in this thread because I get bored at work. But why are we still wrangling about this? Outside of this weird thread; these are almost universally accepted broad conclusions.
sure he was , how do you think the Eagles ended up with him , he was available via trade and they gave up minimal assets in order to secure a cheap backup with game experience ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
nobody was beating down Omar's door in order to secure his services , there was no bidding war to secure his services ...1 team made an offer 1 ... just 1 and the offer was minimal
To be honest i wished this thread and all the other KP threads would be locked. I'm actually sick of reading them. KP is an Eagle now, I wish him all the luck and success in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Correct. It’s been noted many times by Tomlin that Pickett wasn’t available until he requested a trade. Eagles were the first team to come in with an offer. After they lowballed Chicago and couldn’t get Fields (because of 5th year option), they offered more for Pickett. Pittsburgh talked to Chicago and got that deal set and traded away Pickett…at his request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
I mean everyone is “available” for a price…that’s pretty much the norm…
People are just obsessed. The Kenny Pickett Inhibitors can’t let it go…lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcityboyz
This thread will be alive until Pickett is out of the league…and then some.
What's the over/under that this thread surpasses the AB thread?
lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by vasteeler
Gotta say under. AB is a LEGEND. A gift that keeps giving!! This may have more replies…AB thread will last longer!!