But nobody here wants to give a QB time. Kenny had a bad half-season (while still winning more games than he lost) and the anti-Kenny mob here ran him out of town on a rail.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
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But nobody here wants to give a QB time. Kenny had a bad half-season (while still winning more games than he lost) and the anti-Kenny mob here ran him out of town on a rail.Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach
so did I. People already writing KP’s career epitaph. I think its premature. I don’t care what some of these pundits say. None of them were in the trenches with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Exactly my point. If Kenny and Mason aren't worth a damn for their body of work, why does the Defense get a pass? Last I checked, they've make more money and have more star power than the Offense and have been for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
The difference is that one side is kicked to the curb, but the other was not. One gets all the blame but the other doesn't. The prevailing narrative when Kenny was traded was he was holding the team back. Like this is some elite squad that is a QB away from contending. We'll see if that was true or not. And for all who want to bring up the Browns game. Great game by the Defense, but there have been times when Kenny does his job and the Defense didn't.
Raiders Game: Kenny gives the Steelers a 23-7 lead in the third quarter. The Defense ends up making it a 23-18.
Packers game: Kenny leads an opening drive touchdown. Not behind the 8 Ball on Offense for once. Defense is given a lead. The Defense gives the lead right back on the Packers' opening drive. Cool. Kenny leads ANOTHER TD drive, tacks on a field goal and gives the Defense a 17-7 lead. Defense collapses with 12 unanswered to make it 19-17.
Now has Kenny been great? No. But to say he "Tebowed" it up last year is simply pushing a narrative. The 2023 Steelers were not an amazing team, but they found ways to win under Kenny. Then the first game without Canada he gives us our first 400 yard offensive game since Ben was under center.
Fixed it [emoji38]Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
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You did!Quote:
Originally Posted by tube517
I forgot about the hippo farts. How could i?
So what do all the KP needed time and better coaching folks think his ceiling was/is?
Because that’s a huge part of this.
Did he get jobbed a bit here by being yoked to a shitty OC and flawed approach to QB development? Yup.
But picture your best but realistic version of KP. Is that QB really that good? I kinda picture KP as a version of Tannehill. And since winning playoff games is all everyone wants to talk about. Tannehill won 2 in 11 years. That doesn’t seem to be where people want to be.
Maybe KP can become Kirk Cousins. The apogee of mediocre QBs. 5 playoff wins in 12 years.
Is that more than recent Steelers? Sure whatever.
But I think the Steelers saw Rudolph and KP for what they are. QBs that can help a team scratch and claw their way to the playoffs. Then get their ass kicked in the opening round.
And to be fair; that’s most QBs in the league. But the Steelers seem to be hunting for bigger game at the position. They’re looking for a guy who can make up for weaknesses on the roster rather than need everything to be perfect to have success.
I don’t think they found that guy. But the point remains that KP isn’t that guy either.
Cousins has only 1 playoff win in 12 years,not 5!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Oops!Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
Not wearing my glasses. Saw the 5 appearances and read it as wins. Hah!
Even better. It illustrates the point.
The best version of KP I can picture in my head still doesn’t win playoff games.
The articles that are out there, and they seem to be quoting Omar, Tomlin, etc, say trading KP was not in the plan, until KP asked for a trade. The thought was KP could learn from Russ this year. Fields was not even truly considered until KP asked to be traded, and then they made sure they could deal for Fields before making the trade. The part of this discussion that is 100% false is that the Steelers were done with KP and ran a successful covert campaign to get him to ask to be traded. That did not happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
KP as an Eagle....I think at least part of this season will be spent with Hurts out with some injury. At least 1 game. Between KP and Grier I would think the Eagles will go with the guy that has the better grasp of the playbook. Not necessarily the overall better QB at this point. Grier is only on a 1yr contract, KP is under contract through 2025 so they still have time to bring him in slowly. Hurts is owed big money through 2028 I think, so he's not going anywhere. Best hope for KP there is QB2 unless Hurts gets traded for some reason.
maybe this thread will die if it gets moved to the NFL section and he isnt a steeler now so
I’ve accepted it. Don’t like how they handled it and wanted to see him get a season in with a real OC. I was willing to write the season off and still build for the next guy…but it is what it is, when he whines and cries…it wasn’t going anywhere after that. I’m looking forward to seeing how this plays out. In Khan I trust…Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
I don’t know what it would be…that’s the thing. I’d like to see what it would’ve been. Had it been super low, medium or high. I just wanted to see what it was…lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
You’re arguing a point I’m not attempting to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Take everything you know and think you know about KP as an NFL QB. Project that into the near future.
How good is that QB?
Personally, I arrive at not that great. And not awful either.
I strongly believe the Steelers were not impressed by their internal version of that projection.
Unless your personal projection is of a QB that hoists a Lombardi or two; why are we still arguing about it?
Does KP’s ceiling as an NFL QB justify the $30+ million per year contract another year as the starter would’ve garnered him?
While I don’t think Wilson or Fields are the answers at the position, I also don’t think KP was either. I’m glad they moved off KP, however that came about, and I hope they are willing to move on again just as quickly if Wilson or Fields proves to be as bad a fit as I think they will be.
I might be totally unfair to KP....but I really didn't. I would've rooted for him and been hopeful that Smith could put a system around him that helped him succeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
But I have long had doubts about KP's fundamental physical abilities as a QB. He has scattershot accuracy without a clear and correctable flaw in his mechanics or fundamentals that makes me believe he just isn't all that accurate of a QB. From what I can see of his Pitt stats, he didn't complete a high percentage really ever during his college career. His final season was the only one over 60%. His instincts are to attempt to make plays that he is not the athlete to pull off at the NFL level. And I am not sure you can ever coach that out of him. It is a lot to ask a guy to ignore everything his brain is yelling at him.
Long and overdone and repeated story short --- wipe out his final season at Pitt and do you even draft KP? Let alone in the first round.
KP was billed as a highly accurate and elite mental processor who was ready to deal with the NFL from the jump. I just don't think that was accurate. Even if you control for the vortex of suck that was Matt Canada.
With all that, I'm surprised I didn't hear a comment from Roethlisberger on the changes to this position...I don't know what he thinks about all that!
None of the QBs in that draft class were overly exciting to think about as draft picks and I don’t think many, if any, (here) wanted them to draft a QB in one of the first few rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
The decision making, the in accuracy, all of it could be contributed to the offense or it could all be Kenny. We just don’t know exactly. For instance, he may have been told to throw a ball to a spot, that could’ve been disrupted, whatever…there’s no point in getting wrapped up in it because he’s gone, Canada is gone and hopefully they know what to do with the O-Line now that they figured out they can’t zone block…lol
That's our difference. I did not want to write a season off for Kenny Pickett. He holds no stock with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
I forget it does he do the podcast in the offseason? I am sure he has a lot to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
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I agree but do we have moderators right now who could move it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
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I guess my only POINT is the FO was not finished with KP. They did want to continue with him. He wasn't learning anything with Canada and Trubisky, and Mason could teach him to be an ok backup. They brought in a successful veteran for him to learn behind. Not to run him off as has been speculated. I guess I believe the quotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
This tells me the guys in charge think KP's ceiling is/was higher than where he was.
Personally, I would rather have KP than Fields behind Russ. I like Russ better than both as QB1 though.
Since it is my belief Kenny initiated the trade himself, I am trying to move on into the Russ/Fields/Allen era.
To me KP showed mobility, accuracy while running and was great at scrambling and picking up first down with his running. Was great at qb sneaks in finding the end zone too. He just needed coaching and practice in better pocket awareness and reading zone coverage. I think he could get there. He’s got a chip on his shoulder and I think wants to be great. That being said, he’s not a Steeler anymore. He’s an eagle. I hope he rides the pine and is a career backup.
I’m ready to find out what Wilson can do for the team.
yeah I believe so , a thread got merged on Sutton a week or so ago so there is hopeQuote:
Originally Posted by tube517
Yet you still have Kenny Pickett in your signature line... LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
This thread will probably not die for years to come. I suspect people who have strong opinions one way, or another, will want to express them when any of the three QB's play well or poorly in any situation. The truth is there is unlikely to be a simplistic easy comparison in the short term. Kenny is unlikely to play next year. Russ, unless something crazy happens, will almost certainly be better statistically over any qb the Steelers have had over the past few years. The Steelers could have a better offense and defense and not necessarily win any more games. We were 5 -1 in the division last year. That feat is going to be very hard to duplicate under any circumstances.
Of course, maybe Russ or Justin lead us deep into the playoffs? Or maybe Kenny has to fill in in Philly and does the same? The latter is more unlikely imo, but crazier things have happened.
Ultimately, the debate ongoing in this thread for years is better than the alternative, which is what we got a taste of last year around this time, when we get one or two posts a day for weeks on end.
Right. I don't understand the clamoring for this thread to end and for people to tell other people to "move on." There's nothing in this thread that's bad taste and it's a debatable subject. The thought and post police are tiresome. If I was a mod, I'd leave this thread right where it is and hope it hit a thousand posts. People who don't want to participate can simply not enter.Quote:
Originally Posted by oneforthetoe
It doesn't matter what you or I or anybody thinks it is. The point is we never got the chance to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I got to see that he was a quitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneforthetoe
This message board was on life support. Nobody was posting, and it looked like the end was near.
Luckily Ezra decided to take over the board from Gary, and here we are. There is much more traffic, and the overall activity is way up from where it has been. It's great to see more posting here.
I don't understand why people have a problem with this thread being here. It is about a Steelers quarterback being traded to another team for a different quarterback. It IS about the Steelers and will continue to be in the future because we are going to find out over the coming years if this trade ultimately helped the Steelers or not. Some here don't want to keep hearing about it, and most of those people were the ones screaming for Pickett's head. They got what they wanted, but now they want that to go away and not be on the front page here as this all plays out.
There are more people posting and some new posters here. I think it's great. I think some got comfortable with having a smaller group where they always controlled the conversation and the opinions. I think there is a little more attitude here than there used to be and people seem less tolerant of differing opinions. There is way more posturing and people immediately dismissing what others are saying. I'm hoping it is a temporary thing because of the combustible nature of the quarterback situation with many picking a side.
I think we will be able to look back at a thread like this and it will have a chance to make this message board better. We will all be able to see what we said and how we treated others to learn and be better for it. We may also find out if anybody was right about Kenny Pickett, and how the organization and the coaching staff handled him compared to how the current situation goes with Wilson and Fields. It has decided the ultimate direction of the team.
How is that not about the Steelers?
You couldn't wait for KP to develop with a normal OC, and bashed everything he did, You should be elated that as you say, "he is a "quitter"Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
In terms of the team’s decision making, obviously it doesn’t matter what the thoughts of anyone they don’t pay to think has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
But in the setting of an internet message board for fans to share opinions it absolutely does.
I’ve noticed you never express specific thoughts on the abilities of individual players. Just criticism of coaches. And for the most part, other posters opinions.
Kind of think you’ve got nothing useful to say. You’ve got a strong opinion of everything but offer no tangible observations on why.
If I can piece it together it seems that you’re a KP believer because he wins and because Tomlin wasn’t. Are there things about how he played QB that you liked as well? Or is it all just vibes?