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His trajectory is bust. Just a couple years riding the pine in Philly and he'll be fully there. It's a reality. What's different between him and Bush, Burns, et al? If you're a Pitt fan it must make you more sensitive, but I'm not worried about it. It was a bad pick. Life goes on. It's not like he was a top 3 pick.
That's the way I see it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
to your last paragraph, i agree overall, looks like the whole locker room soured because the offensive ineptitude. Maybe KP allowed his teammates frustration to be directed toward him as well as Canada. Tough situation for a rookie Qb to be in. He probably thought 2023 was not his fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I’ll remember that the guy had his best game of the season in that cinci game after canada was fired. And he never got a second chance after that. I call that an unfinished evaluation. And that will be how his steelers career ends - evaluation incomplete. It’ll be interesting to see where his career goes from here.
i never liked the idea of an nfl Qb throwing the ball with gloves anyway.
I don't think I would list Pickett as a bust as of now. However, I think the term is overused. Just my definition, but I reserve the term bust for players that are drafted high and prove unable to play with anywhere near their pre-draft skill at their position. Additionally, there are players that might not quite live up to expectations but still manage to have a good career which I don't think makes them a bust.
Even if Pickett is backup most of his career but has later career resurgence, where he is able to put a good starter and maybe has some playoff success, I personally wouldn't consider that a busted career.
Like I said that's just my definition.
Now clearly the pick didn't work for the Steelers. How much of that blame belongs to the Steelers and how much to Pickett (both imo) is the eternal debate of this thread.
The only way anyone will know if Pickett was a bust is if he get's starting time, and that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
Josh Rosen was drafted 10 spots higher than Pickett and started only 16 games. People feel confident calling him a bust.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcityboyz
The Cardinals were so not sold on Rosen that they moved on from him in the very next draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
Sometimes you just know. It's not a team's obligation to give a quarterback every chance to succeed. It's the quarterback's job to make the most of every opportunity. That's what Pickett failed to do because of his entitled attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by lipps83
We will see if Fields or Wilson will be the answer or not but one thing is certain it would have been a big mistake if Pickett would have been our starter with Rudolph as backup for another year...It would have been as bad as when they kept Canada for another year even if everyone knew he was historically bad...The Steelers' biggest mistake with Pickett was to draft him in 2022
For his game against the Bengals, it was a good game for him but still only 16 points...Rudolph had helped the Steelers to score 34 points a month later against this same Bengals team....Also the following game against the Bengals, it was more of the same vs cards...only 3 points with 5 minutes left in the second quarter before his injury...It was against 2 awful defense...it was time for a change
Pickett didn’t fail because of an entitled attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
He failed because he had the worst OC in the NFL for 23 of his 25 games. The biggest issue with Kenny was injury. He got injured at the worst time when he had a chance to show everyone he could ball without Canada’s horrible play calling.
Had nothing to do with entitlement. That doesn’t even make sense.
Are we going to act like DJ didn’t drop a TD and then watch Warren fumble on the next play and do nothing? 30 games without 400 yards and the first game without Canada we have 400+ yards of offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by polamalubeast
Go back and watch Mason’s play with Canada at QB vs a winless Lions team. 30/50.. no TD’s, 1INT and 16 points. You will also see fumbles by Muth and DJ that game.
Its the same type of game when Canada calls plays.
Biggest mistake was bringing Canada back in 2022.
They like to talk about the Tomlin haters here, But there's a fair share of Pickett haters here too. Makes no difference to me, Kenny is a Eagle now.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Kenny Pickett failed because he quit. When he had the chance to prove how good he was against real competition he quit the first day. Called his WRs and cancelled their workout and told the team he wanted out. THAT is why Kenny Pickett failed in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
That and he’s just not very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
The conspiracies wrapped in lies and shrouded in nonsense being bandied about by all sides have drifted far from the facts.
I’m not accusing you of this. Just pointing out that the unavoidable reality is that for 39/53 college games and like 23/25 pro games, Kenny Pickett was not a very good QB.
Unless Canada was also to blame for his first four years at Pitt, KP is EXACTLY what the vast majority of his games played demonstrated; a good NFL backup.
What’s the difficulty of acknowledging that?
This is very hard for some...My biggest concern on him in 2022 was his ceilling was too lowQuote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
I think the one struggling the most to accept it are also pitt panther fans.
I have wondered if that was the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
Wilson didnt sign here to be a backup. I think the steelers gave assurance that he would be the starter and i think kenny knew that. I dont think it had anything to do with being afraid of fair competition.
and he had 280 yards passing against cinci with 300+ yards and a TD by rights if DJ does his job. Thats a very good game. One that he might’ve built upon if he didnt get hurt
I dont necessarily agree with him wanting out, but i certainly understand it.
Well he got what he wanted. I hope he’s happy with his decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Does any of this armchair psychology and speculative palace intrigue stories really matter? We will never know what got said to who when and how. Nor will we know how everyone felt about it. And so what?
We have some tangible football realities to go off of.
1. KP has a long track record of mediocre to below average on the field production for a QB.
2. Wilson has a longer track record of above average or better on the field production.
3. Fields has better athletic traits and arm strength than either KP or Wilson coupled with shaky on the field results.
I feel those are fairly reasonable statements of trying to sum up complex contexts for each player in one short sentence.
While I do not think it will have the short and long term outcomes the Steelers are most likely hoping for....I can not be too upset about swapping out an average athlete with poor on field results and questions about his processing for one potentially declining athlete with high level on field production in his past with few questions about how he sees the game and a phenomenal athlete (who is the same age as KP) with significant question marks about his decision making.
The biggest question(s) I have about the 2024 and beyond QB situation for the team is that I do not believe that Wilson is a good fit for what Smith likes to run and I am not confident that he has a great deal of gas left in the tank. Further, I am not certain that Fields will ever learn to think fast enough and trust what he sees quickly enough to allow his immense physical abilities to take over.
I think pivoting to Wilson-Fields is a risky move. If it pays out, even partially, the Steelers "win" big from having an answer at the most important position on the roster for next to no cost. I also, honestly, believe that it has a significant chance of crapping out, ending the Tomlin era, and kicking off a true tear down and rebuild of the entire roster.
While those are significant concerns and serious question marks that could impact the short and long term plans of the team, I don't think Pickett provided any better answers or increased risk avoidance.
i think the landing spot was terrible. Now hes backing up a solid entrenched starter. He couldve backed up Wilson for a season at most, worked hard and probably gotten his shot in 25 at the latest. At least he gets to play closer to home. Looks like he was really frustrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
i think MR landed in a better spot with more of a chance to start.
Smith is a huge play action play caller and Wilson is one of the best play action quarterbacks. The other stuff can be customized.
Here is an interesting discussion on that: https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2...alysis-nfl-cahQuote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
Wilson is excellent at play action. Smith loves him some play action. All true. Seems like a dream match-up.
But take a look at where Tannehill did his damage under Smith...the middle. Wilson has traditionally avoided the middle of the field like the plague. That should be interesting what comes out of that. Does the mountain come to Mohammed or will Mohammed go to the mountain?
I really think the answer to that question and the success that either outcome produces will be, perhaps, the biggest single factor in the Steelers 2024 offensive success or failure.
The middle is what I was alluding to in my customization remark. Is it the Wilson can’t or was he simply playing within the structure of what the Seahawks wanted?
Of course it didn't. There was never going to be any fair competition. In his two years here Kenny received an education on the real Mike Tomlin, and wisely decided that the best thing for him was to get the hell out and go somewhere where the head coach knew what the hell he was doing in regards to quarterbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
- - - Updated - - -
Same thing with Tomlin, and TJ, and Cam.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSteel
Because its not an open and shut case as many want it to be. The Steelers no longer have the clout to say "Well this dude just sucks" and be over with it. They don't have the track record of excellence anymore to get away with it. KP was an easy scapegoat for avoiding the unavoidable reality that the Steelers have fully regressed as an organization. Kenny Pickett can not be very good and he can also be badly mismanaged and mishandled by the organization with poor coaching. Both can be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
You can say KP had a a low ceiling, but we never even saw it. Like I mentioned before. We barely let Kenny show himself. If he's a bust, then he would've sunk himself and be an easy cut, but the Steelers once again blew it. Now you might be saying the Steelers would set themselves back if they hung on too long, well signing a aged QB who is allergic to throwing over the middle and a turnover prone experiment from Chicago to one-year contracts isn't much better.
The Pickett/Rudolph talk is only going to get louder if the team doesn't perform up to its hype, and there won't be a convenient shield for Tomlin.
I don’t think this is the last destination for Kenny. I can see a team calling up the Eagles for Kenny if their starter gets injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west
Dobbs started 12 games last year.
Mason started 14 games in 6 seasons.
BINGO !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Would the Eagles give up KP? I think at this point we pretty much know the ceiling of Will Grier. If the Eagles got this call, do they offer KP or Grier?Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Why would they offer up either? Lol. They just traded for Pickett. They aren’t trading him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Why wouldn’t they trade him if a team lost a QB and were willing to trade for him?Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
Almost sounds like Philly may value Kenny even though some swear he isn’t worth much. lol
They value him as a backup.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
I believe the Steelers did value him. HE didn’t want to sit and learn. I’ve heard some players say you don’t learn from the bench. That may be true for those players. But in KP’s situation, he is still going to be learning from the bench. I hope he picks up Hurts’ work ethic and ability to thrive after getting benched.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltdizz
So.....there are other Steelers message boards you say?
First, why should a QB who had learned enough to produce over 400 yards of offense in his last full game still have to "sit and learn"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Born2Steel
Second, when Mike Tomlin decides to put a QB in a "sit and learn" position, that guy tends to still be "sitting" and "learning" for quite a long time. Kenny saw that firsthand with Mason Rudolph.
Then when Mason Rudolph finally got another opportunity (again, only BECAUSE Trubisky was so awful that Tomlin was FORCED to bench him and because his precious .500 record was in danger) and performed, Tomlin didn't even bother keeping him. So much for merit and loyalty and "getting better". Tomlin runs his mouth about getting better and competition and stuff, but its very clear he has favorites and will play players to the teams' detriment. Now we get it, all Coaches all have their favorites, but all coaches don't talk the stuff Tomlin does. How is a player supposed to trust his coach when he says one thing but does something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
When Kenny got to Philly, Nick Sirianni said he's a backup. He didn't cover his ass about "competition". Sometimes, a little honesty and professionalism goes a ways.
Value? Tomlin already lied to Kenny once (The "Quarterback Competition"). Give him one good reason why Kenny (or anyone) had any further reason to trust him.Quote:
I believe the Steelers did value him. HE didn’t want to sit and learn
Mason Rudolph sucked and he sucked for years. He’s below average at very best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edman
do you even read what you type or follow Pittsburgh sports at all ?
come on dude its well documented they wanted Mason back , they were trying to work on a deal for him but MASON said he wanted to test the free agent market first ... In the meantime the steelers decided fine you dont want to be here then we will get someone else ......
what is so hard to understand there
another simple concept is Omar Khan is the GM not Mike Tomlin ... good lord people and I am not even a Mike Tomlin apologist but lets be fair and accurate
You've got your low opinion of Rudolph, and his actual performance when he finally got another chance is totally irrelevant. Got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 86WARD
It's well documented the Steelers SAID they wanted Mason back, just like they SAID there was going to be a fair competition between Mitch and Mason and Kenny in 2022, and between Kenny and Wilson in 2024. But just because they said all these things doesn't mean they were true. As a matter of fact, in every one of these cases the Steelers wound up actually DOING things that were a lot different than what they SAID.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames