Kenny Pickett traded to Eagles.

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Originally Posted by Edman

Like Tomlin's "QB competition" in 2022 where he wound up handing the starting job and Captain patch to Trubisky anyway. Then the mess with bringing Pickett in to save the season. Then Keeping Matt Canada when he knew he was horrible, Then the Seattle fiasco.

Then the defensive players recruited Russ Wilson behind his back and Tomlin basically handing him the starting job (He wouldn't come here for cheap otherwise). Instead of simply telling Pickett he was demoted, Tomlin tried the "competition" sweet talk again and it didn't work after bamboozling him last time. KP was back on the bench and was no "competition", and for anyone getting on KP for running away and not trusting Tomlin, look at how Mason Rudolph was treated. At least Philly was honest and straight with KP telling him he's a backup.

The head coach is the first and most important figure in the organization you need to build trust in, when you can no longer trust your head coach or his word, it was no longer going to work.

This is why I'm perfectly fine if this ends up getting blown up if '24 goes bust. I personally wouldn't give Tomlin or the players an extension or another year after this. But I'm still on that copium.

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Welcome, fellow Tomlin and Steeler hater. :drink:

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Originally Posted by Edman

Like Tomlin's "QB competition" in 2022 where he wound up handing the starting job and Captain patch to Trubisky anyway. Then the mess with bringing Pickett in to save the season. Then Keeping Matt Canada when he knew he was horrible, Then the Seattle fiasco.

Then the defensive players recruited Russ Wilson behind his back and Tomlin basically handing him the starting job (He wouldn't come here for cheap otherwise). Instead of simply telling Pickett he was demoted, Tomlin tried the "competition" sweet talk again and it didn't work after bamboozling him last time. KP was back on the bench and was no "competition", and for anyone getting on KP for running away and not trusting Tomlin, look at how Mason Rudolph was treated. At least Philly was honest and straight with KP telling him he's a backup.

The head coach is the first and most important figure in the organization you need to build trust in, when you can no longer trust your head coach or his word, it was no longer going to work.

This is why I'm perfectly fine if this ends up getting blown up if '24 goes bust. I personally wouldn't give Tomlin or the players an extension or another year after this. But I'm still on that copium.

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Basically..

and I have been a huge Tomlin supporter over the years but I’m also a Pitt fan and thought Kenny got a raw deal with Matt Canada as his OC.

If this doesn’t work in 2024 its a huge fail. I don’t want to hear excuses about “at least we tried to fix things” because we have been extremely reactionary on offense these last few years.

We can go ahead and heap on with the failed part. If KP is a flop/career backup, then the Steelers failed for taking him in the 1st round. If KP becomes a starter in the league, the Steelers failed because they traded him. It doesn’t matter which road it ends up on. Both scenarios mean the Steelers failed.

So….how does it get fixed moving forward? Not just ‘fire everyone/blow it up’. What is a viable plan moving forward?

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

We can go ahead and heap on with the failed part. If KP is a flop/career backup, then the Steelers failed for taking him in the 1st round. If KP becomes a starter in the league, the Steelers failed because they traded him. It doesn’t matter which road it ends up on. Both scenarios mean the Steelers failed.

So….how does it get fixed moving forward? Not just ‘fire everyone/blow it up’. What is a viable plan moving forward?

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I don’t see it that way. KP was arguably best QB in draft. None of them have done well yet except Mr irrelevant. Steelers needed a QB so in my mind it was the right pick. It failed but all drafts produce failures. That’s why I have zero issues with new QB situation. It’s a process. For every Stroud or Purdy there 2-3 Josh Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky or Trey Lances. Bilicheat lucked out with Brady but has 10–12 busts since drafting Tom. You can’t fault Tomlin for trying to find a quality QB, it’s just not easy. The bears pick top 5-10 every year and haven’t been successful. Carolina as well. IMO the route they’re taking still better than having MR as starter and finishing 9-8 getting ass kicked in wildcard.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

I don’t see it that way. KP was arguably best QB in draft. None of them have done well yet except Mr irrelevant. Steelers needed a QB so in my mind it was the right pick. It failed but all drafts produce failures. That’s why I have zero issues with new QB situation. It’s a process. For every Stroud or Purdy there 2-3 Josh Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky or Trey Lances. Bilicheat lucked out with Brady but has 10–12 busts since drafting Tom. You can’t fault Tomlin for trying to find a quality QB, it’s just not easy. The bears pick top 5-10 every year and haven’t been successful. Carolina as well. IMO the route they’re taking still better than having MR as starter and finishing 9-8 getting ass kicked in wildcard.

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and Purdy has the best offense to put him in positions to win.

when you throw QB’s to the wolves with subpar coaching it doesn’t help them at all.

Sam Howell had Beinemy but he had dude passing like he was Mahomes.. lol.

Even Young looked like trash last year in Carolina because they paired him with a failed HC who seemed to be past his glory days. I bet if they kept Wilkes at HC and ran the same offense as the year before Young looks better. Can’t just ask rookie QB’s to save you without helping them out.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

You're a Steeler hater = I don't have an answer for what you said, but I want to discredit you anyway.

Tom???

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Careful VOR. You're stepping on the toes of the ones who will put you on ignore. :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: The form the forum cabal. Note how they stick together like glue. They prefer a private safe space forum where they all can agree, and even when they don't, they stick up for each other. No outside opinions allowed or you will be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

But nobody here wants to give a QB time. Kenny had a bad half-season (while still winning more games than he lost) and the anti-Kenny mob here ran him out of town on a rail.

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It's not the wins or losses. Those come from the team. It's the how. He never looked like a competent NFL QB, despite his age and what they thought was NFL ready. I suggested early on in this Pickett debate that he needed to spend some time with a clipboard and then get his chance. He was never rated like Elway or the few others who stepped right in and took over. Ben too. The team was too good so spend a couple years grooming the QB. Their window is now. Combine his terrible play and confusion in the pocket with his injury proclivity, and lastly his blatant refusal to take a back seat for now, and that's why he's gone.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

I don’t see it that way. KP was arguably best QB in draft. None of them have done well yet except Mr irrelevant. Steelers needed a QB so in my mind it was the right pick. It failed but all drafts produce failures. That’s why I have zero issues with new QB situation. It’s a process. For every Stroud or Purdy there 2-3 Josh Rosen, Darnold, Trubisky or Trey Lances. Bilicheat lucked out with Brady but has 10–12 busts since drafting Tom. You can’t fault Tomlin for trying to find a quality QB, it’s just not easy. The bears pick top 5-10 every year and haven’t been successful. Carolina as well. IMO the route they’re taking still better than having MR as starter and finishing 9-8 getting ass kicked in wildcard.

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Just trying to move the conversation forward. Everyone has pretty much stated their opinions, had the back and forth debates, and now it just seems to be falling into repetitive name calling posts.

I like how the Steelers have handled this offseason. I think there are more good moves to come. I’m just curious what everyone thinks about moving forward. Strong defense and run game seems to be where we are headed.

Russ is going to have to channel his inner prime Seahawks era version. The division is going to be tougher this year with Burrow back and Watson probably improved.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

You're a Steeler hater = I don't have an answer for what you said, but I want to discredit you anyway.

Tom???

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An answer for what? That Tomlin and the Steelers give crap? That's just your normal Steelers hate mantra. There's no facts in your post.

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Originally Posted by Penglose

Careful VOR. You're stepping on the toes of the ones who will put you on ignore. :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: The form the forum cabal. Note how they stick together like glue. They prefer a private safe space forum where they all can agree, and even when they don't, they stick up for each other. No outside opinions allowed or you will be ignored.

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Actually, there are a lot of people here who share the same views I do. But I'm the newbie, so I'm the one the "my way or the highway" posters mostly go after.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

An answer for what? That Tomlin and the Steelers give crap? That's just your normal Steelers hate mantra. There's no facts in your post.

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So a guy writes a post with no facts in it that accuses me of having no facts in my post. :rofl2:

You can't make this stuff up.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Actually, there are a lot of people here who share the same views I do. But I'm the newbie, so I'm the one the "my way or the highway" posters mostly go after.

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Nobody gives a shit if you are new or not. You just don’t have the social skills to speak to another person in a normal, non-confrontational way. You, clearly, don’t know how to do it. :boink:

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

So a guy writes a post with no facts in it that accuses me of having no facts in my post. :rofl2:

You can't make this stuff up.

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Wanna bet???

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

Nobody gives a shit if you are new or not. You just don’t have the social skills to speak to another person in a normal, non-confrontational way. You, clearly, don’t know how to do it. :boink:

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The irony in this post is off the charts. :boink:

Bust!

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

We can go ahead and heap on with the failed part. If KP is a flop/career backup, then the Steelers failed for taking him in the 1st round. If KP becomes a starter in the league, the Steelers failed because they traded him. It doesn’t matter which road it ends up on. Both scenarios mean the Steelers failed.

So….how does it get fixed moving forward? Not just ‘fire everyone/blow it up’. What is a viable plan moving forward?

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the Steelers failed when they hired Canada. Then they doubled down on that failure and kept him expecting him to coach up KP. I think KP was a good pick also. Steelers were right there. But they did fail in being patient with him and letting him learn and develop after Canada was fired. How much of a fail remains to be seen. It may be a major blunder. I hope not.

they only needed one season, at most, to see what they had.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

the Steelers failed when they hired Canada. Then they doubled down on that failure and kept him expecting him to coach up KP. I think KP was a good pick also. Steelers were right there. But they did fail in being patient with him and letting him learn and develop after Canada was fired. How much of a fail remains to be seen. It may be a major blunder. I hope not.

they only needed one season, at most, to see what they had.

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I agree with every word.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I agree with every word.

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Superbowl or bust

(or at least AFCCG or bust) :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

the Steelers failed when they hired Canada. Then they doubled down on that failure and kept him expecting him to coach up KP. I think KP was a good pick also. Steelers were right there. But they did fail in being patient with him and letting him learn and develop after Canada was fired. How much of a fail remains to be seen. It may be a major blunder. I hope not.

they only needed one season, at most, to see what they had.

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Pickett is gone……Canada is gone and neither one is coming back….let it the f#%k GO.

Just one more season to see what he's got... That's what they said about Canada.

People act like NFL teams work like the small-town high school team they had their glory days riding the bench for.

If only coach hadn't played favorites, I would've dominated and led the team to state!

Steven Wright said to always borrow money from pessimists, they don't expect you to pay it back.

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

Pickett is gone……Canada is gone and neither one is coming back….let it the f#%k GO.

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The decision makers are still here. It’s actually healthy to discuss and analyze what they did. Like they say, those who don’t learn from their history are doomed to repeat it. Anyway, it’s the offseason, let it be discussed until it fizzles out on its own.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

The decision makers are still here. It’s actually healthy to discuss and analyze what they did. Like they say, those who don’t learn from their history are doomed to repeat it. Anyway, it’s the offseason, let it be discussed until it fizzles out on its own.

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True. And I personally like what the decision makers did. Tomlin led a pathetic offense with backup QB and a first round bust QB (MT) to playoffs. Josh Allen singlehandly won the game in a laugher. They went out and got some more D, and realized if you can’t stop Allen, Mahomes, Stroud whoever they need higher powered offense. They attempted that as well. I realize there’s a glass half empty view to Tomlin but realistically if HC gets you to playoffs or chance year in and year out it’s up to players at that point in season. Steelers just didn’t have firepower. I don’t believe any HC could’ve got last years team over the hump. I do believe if this fails it may be time to move on from Tomlin. Even HOF coaches have a shelf life. He’d get hired immediately IMO and do well wherever he goes.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

The decision makers are still here. It’s actually healthy to discuss and analyze what they did. Like they say, those who don’t learn from their history are doomed to repeat it. Anyway, it’s the offseason, let it be discussed until it fizzles out on its own.

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…and YOU somehow are a decision maker?! Settle down Francis!!

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

…and YOU somehow are a decision maker?! Settle down Francis!!

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??WTF are you talking about???

Here’s a tip:

Don’t post when your drunk.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

True. And I personally like what the decision makers did. Tomlin led a pathetic offense with backup QB and a first round bust QB (MT) to playoffs. Josh Allen singlehandly won the game in a laugher. They went out and got some more D, and realized if you can’t stop Allen, Mahomes, Stroud whoever they need higher powered offense. They attempted that as well. I realize there’s a glass half empty view to Tomlin but realistically if HC gets you to playoffs or chance year in and year out it’s up to players at that point in season. Steelers just didn’t have firepower. I don’t believe any HC could’ve got last years team over the hump. I do believe if this fails it may be time to move on from Tomlin. Even HOF coaches have a shelf life. He’d get hired immediately IMO and do well wherever he goes.

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I agree about what you said about last year’s team. However, Im skeptical of Tomlin. Have been for a long time. And I agree with Terry’s opinion of Tomlin being largely a cool guy who cheerleads. I actually think talent wins you regular season games and gets you to the playoffs but coaching and strategy win you games in the post season where the talent levels out. And we’ve seen little of that since 2011. I think the Steelers should move on from Tomlin.

as far as the moves this offseason, I like some of them, specially the Queen signing. And am warming up to the Wilson and Fields signings. Hopefully Wilson has enough left for one more playoff run. I am more optimistic for a deep playoff run than I would’ve been with KP running the show in 24.

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Originally Posted by Hawkman

Pickett is gone……Canada is gone and neither one is coming back….let it the f#%k GO.

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The Mastermind and decision maker is still here.

The KP trade is going to be talked about all offseason, and the talk is only going to get louder if the team stays mediocre and ultimately doesn't get anywhere. God forbid if Russ and Fields aren't up to standard. The faithful are running out of patience and Tomlin hasn't had the track record that warrants a grace period.

Dropping a first round quarterback like a hot brick has long reaching ramifications that affects franchises. Justin Fields was dropped by Chicago but they have a contingency plan in place, they're picking high in this years' draft. Here we are, flailing around with retread veteran and yet another experiment project from Chicago, HOPING the former regains form, or the latter develops into something that isn't crap.

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as far as the moves this offseason, I like some of them, specially the Queen signing. And am warming up to the Wilson and Fields signings. Hopefully Wilson has enough left for one more playoff run. I am more optimistic for a deep playoff run than I would’ve been with KP running the show in 24.

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Any playoff run depends on the Defense actually showing up to play, which they have not since Watt was drafted. They've been awful to say the least.

The Quarterback can't do everything.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Just one more season to see what he's got... That's what they said about Canada.

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And that's what you're saying now about Wilson. :boink:

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Steven Wright said to always borrow money from pessimists, they don't expect you to pay it back.

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Hey, all you guys who hated Kenny, can I have a loan?

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

And that's what you're saying now about Wilson. :boink:

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Hey, all you guys who hated Kenny, can I have a loan?

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Not many hated Kenny. Don’t hate him now. Just that he’s moved on to a new team and the Steelers are moving on as well.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Not many hated Kenny.

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:jawdrop2: :jawdrop2: :jawdrop2:

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Not many hated Kenny. Don’t hate him now. Just that he’s moved on to a new team and the Steelers are moving on as well.

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This is the actual post you cherry picked.

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Not many fans did hate Kenny. Kenny did this, not the fans. When Russ was signed, KP asked to be traded rather than sit behind a HoF QB for part of a season or even a season. The day we ALL found out Russ would be a Steeler, KP cancelled his workout with the WRs and went to Omar and asked to be traded. Kenny created this mess we seem to keep arguing over. I honestly don’t care about KP anymore. He has moved on, so have I.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

This is the actual post you cherry picked.

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This is the ridiculous sentence you wrote that you're now trying to distance yourself from:

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Not many hated Kenny.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

This is the ridiculous sentence you wrote that you're now trying to distance yourself from:

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Not at all. Just including the entire context. As you should do.

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Originally Posted by Edman

The Mastermind and decision maker is still here.

The KP trade is going to be talked about all offseason, and the talk is only going to get louder if the team stays mediocre and ultimately doesn't get anywhere. God forbid if Russ and Fields aren't up to standard. The faithful are running out of patience and Tomlin hasn't had the track record that warrants a grace period.

Dropping a first round quarterback like a hot brick has long reaching ramifications that affects franchises. Justin Fields was dropped by Chicago but they have a contingency plan in place, they're picking high in this years' draft. Here we are, flailing around with retread veteran and yet another experiment project from Chicago, HOPING the former regains form, or the latter develops into something that isn't crap.


Any playoff run depends on the Defense actually showing up to play, which they have not since Watt was drafted. They've been awful to say the least.

The Quarterback can't do everything.

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True, watt needs to stay healthy for once. And they need to be able to stop the run. Which I hope Queen can help with. It’s a one year shot to me with this Wilson signing. After 2024 I think it’s downhill. This QB change was a gamble imo by letting KP go without a proper evaluation and picking up a former star on the downside of his career with hopefully one good year left. I don’t see the bust label many on this site are putting on KP. Not yet.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

True, watt needs to stay healthy for once. And they need to be able to stop the run. Which I hope Queen can help with. It’s a one year shot to me with this Wilson signing. After 2024 I think it’s downhill. This QB change was a gamble imo by letting KP go without a proper evaluation and picking up a former star on the downside of his career with hopefully one good year left. I don’t see the bust label many on this site are putting on KP. Not yet.

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I know there have been some that have said they consider KP a bust. That should not be applied to all that think the Russ signing was a good thing. I think KP could have learned and developed behind Russell Wilson. At least for part of the season. But he didn’t want to do that. And that is the part where I go to odds with KP.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Not at all. Just including the entire context. As you should do.

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You’re wasting your time if you’re trying to talk with another Steelers fan.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

True, watt needs to stay healthy for once. And they need to be able to stop the run. Which I hope Queen can help with. It’s a one year shot to me with this Wilson signing. After 2024 I think it’s downhill. This QB change was a gamble imo by letting KP go without a proper evaluation and picking up a former star on the downside of his career with hopefully one good year left. I don’t see the bust label many on this site are putting on KP. Not yet.

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KP is not a "bust". If you go back and read the pre-draft scouting reports from all corners of the internet...about 60-80% of them had KP being exactly what he has been to date in the NFL. Better than a career back-up and not capable of elevating a team as a full-time starter. Some call that a "system" QB. Some call it a "third round prospect". Pick from those or another label. Whatever floats you boat.

What did "bust" is the Steelers' internal evaluation. They drafted KP like he was a QB that could elevate the roster as a starter. And that is not the case. They won't be the first or the last team to do it.

None of this is likely KP's fault. He didn't do anything right or wrong. It is just that he was a combination of over-drafted and consigned to a bad situation where he didn't have the "system" around him needed to succeed.

Personally, I think there is some behind the scenes stuff that went on during the 2023 season that soured his teammates and coaches on KP. Something off the field and attitude driven. After his first season the entire rest of the roster would've run through a wall for him. After his second season; few seemed to want to play with him.

KP is not a "bust". The Steelers never even bothered with the guy long enough to even call him one. Should've put the guy out there his rookie year, and let him swim or sink himself, then you get a fascimilie of his ability and whether or not it works moving forward. Instead he got the Mason Rudolph treatment and was left to the second-third stringers. Why even draft a QB in the first round in the first place?

Okay, so you want Kenny to sit for a year, but then Tomlin's .500 record was in danger, and they blew that by starting him cold off the bench against the Jets. Here Kenny, go save the season. We get to 9-8 and Kenny has some decent performances. Not great, but we strung together some wins.

The mismanagement and QB musical chairs is a complete coaching/organizational failure, and I fear Tomlin is going to continue the game with Russ and Fields. Neither are looked at as a long-term answer. As the saying goes: When you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterback, and I predict either one of them will end 2024 souring on Tomlin and the team as well.

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Originally Posted by Edman

KP is not a "bust". The Steelers never even bothered with the guy long enough to even call him one. Should've put the guy out there his rookie year, and let him swim or sink himself, then you get a fascimilie of his ability and whether or not it works moving forward. Instead he got the Mason Rudolph treatment and was left to the second-third stringers. Why even draft a QB in the first round in the first place?

Okay, so you want Kenny to sit for a year, but then Tomlin's .500 record was in danger, and they blew that by starting him cold off the bench against the Jets. Here Kenny, go save the season. We get to 9-8 and Kenny has some decent performances. Not great, but we strung together some wins.

The mismanagement and QB musical chairs is a complete coaching/organizational failure, and I fear Tomlin is going to continue the game with Russ and Fields. Neither are looked at as a long-term answer. As the saying goes: When you have two quarterbacks, you have no quarterback, and I predict either one of them will end 2024 souring on Tomlin and the team as well.

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By "QB musical chairs", do you mean because all 3 QBs played last season?