What has happened to the Democratic party?

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Originally Posted by tom444

It never happened.

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I legit feel bad if he or anyone else heard that. I'm assuming since I've been one of the loudest critical voices; the comment applies to me. And that's fine. But I've not intentionally attacked religion or beliefs. I've attempted to only target YouTube cartoons for adults as information sources. I know several of the folks who produce those hold strong religious beliefs, since I looked them up to better understand their claims to expert knowledge. But that's not why I think they're loons...

You mean cartoons like this?

http://youtu.be/doBBOZA8DT8

Racist BLM terroristic hate-mongering thugs killed a young white mother for daring to say "All Lives Matter". Of course the national news media is covering this up to cover for the racist hate group BLM, a group that is spreading hate, racism, and a far-left agenda under the cover of "racial equality"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCOjeox5PN4

Nah man you can't post cartoons off you-tube that give other points of view that talk about things that are only made up. The guy must be on wikipedia to have any merit to his views.So you know....check your privilege man! Those with academic degrees are the only views you need to know. Not saying you don't have one though. You should know that only crimes against black people or non-white persons are news worthy,or even occur as far as that goes.The ones with the degrees are where all this bullshit has come from anyway.Those brainwashing our nations children for years and years with our own taxpayer money.Taught to go against and reject the very core of the beliefs of everything most people believe in.Generally good,hardworking people who are now racist because they do not believe in the destruction of the nuclear so called western form of family.They took a worthwhile movement and hijacked into a true anti-american terrorist group.It's been hijacked by stupid punk college kids who are up for anything,because they have no life and are too lazy to make something of themselves.And why should you or i have something that we worked hard to achieve?

If you read the reports of the incident (believe this is the same one); what actually took place is that two groups encountered each other in a shady part of town. Each talked racially charged mess to the other. A fight was brewing. Then both groups realized each was armed. Decided to call it off. As they seperated; someone took a potahot(s) and the victim died. Kinda puts things in a different light...


https://fox59.com/news/family-of-wom...rayer-service/

As for the "Western nuclear family" that's a thing that has existed for a portion of the population for about a 25 year period from roughly 1950-1975. Prior to that most Americans lived in multigenerational households with random single family members rotating in and out as economic needs dictated.

Schools don't brainwash your kids. They teach them to read and reason. Combine that with the fact that each generation is more liberal (in the social rules not political sense) than the previous and that's why kids diverge from their parents' viewpoints.

You can find people lamenting it since the dawn of time. It's how and why culture and social norms are constantly changing and shifting despite the fact we think they don't change.

Look at air travel. In less than 2 generations, went from dressing in our Sunday best to wearing pajamas. Now, few people care how other folks dress on airplanes, so no one really laments this. But it's the same process in other areas that most hold stronger opinions about.

Think of "grammar police". You can't end a sentence with a preposition. But now you can, sort of. Literally doesn't mean figuratively, but now it does. LOL! OMG. BRB! K? All that would've looked like gibberish not that long ago, but now most of us can read a full sentence out of it.

Customs, language, and culture constantly change to suit the needs of the people using them. There is no set way they can or should be. After all; we made them up! Most of the time, changes happens slowly or is kind of hidden in the background and we kind of don't notice it. This makes everyone feel secure. Other times; change happens all at once or out on display and it makes everyone feel like there are no more rules and nothing makes sense anymore.

Things change and are in the process of changing all the time.

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Things change and are in the process of changing all the time.

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My father always told my brother and me... "son, nothing ever stays the same."

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Look at air travel. In less than 2 generations, went from dressing in our Sunday best to wearing pajamas. Now, few people care how other folks dress on airplanes, so no one really laments this. But it's the same process in other areas that most hold stronger opinions about.

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Stupid airplanes. In my day, the smoke stayed in the smoking section of the airplane... and restaurants... and preschools.

Odd that none of the Constitutional rights scholars and oppressive government overreach folks are all over this:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...anada-53453077

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Odd that none of the Constitutional rights scholars and oppressive government overreach folks are all over this:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...anada-53453077

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Poor "peaceful protesters".

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Originally Posted by Mach1

Poor "peaceful protesters".

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From what I've read, it's unmarked vehicles full of guys in combat tax gear driving around and snatching folks off the streets with no declaration of why or what agency they represent.

If true, that's messed up no matter what individuals are accused of. Isn't blacked out vehicles full of badgeless government jackbooted soldiers what the far right has been screaming about my whole adult life?

Gee...what's different this time? Would the response be the same if it was some ranchers illegally occupying land in the Western plains that got rounded up? I seem to remember that causing loud outrage.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

From what I've read, it's unmarked vehicles full of guys in combat tax gear driving around and snatching folks off the streets with no declaration of why or what agency they represent.

If true, that's messed up no matter what individuals are accused of. Isn't blacked out vehicles full of badgeless government jackbooted soldiers what the far right has been screaming about my whole adult life?

Gee...what's different this time? Would the response be the same if it was some ranchers illegally occupying land in the Western plains that got rounded up? I seem to remember that causing loud outrage.

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Oh no, the violent street mobs are finally getting arrested after running around destroying things and beating people up for a month. It's an outrage, I tell you, an outrage. Really, they were doing nothing wrong!

You know what, if you don't stand up in support of the leftist hate mobs, YOU could get arrested next time you throw a bottle at the police, and that would be LITERALLY NAZI GERMANY, I tell you!

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

From what I've read, it's unmarked vehicles full of guys in combat tax gear driving around and snatching folks off the streets with no declaration of why or what agency they represent.

If true, that's messed up no matter what individuals are accused of. Isn't blacked out vehicles full of badgeless government jackbooted soldiers what the far right has been screaming about my whole adult life?

Gee...what's different this time? Would the response be the same if it was some ranchers illegally occupying land in the Western plains that got rounded up? I seem to remember that causing loud outrage.

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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

These poor innocent protesters aren't the victims here.

As for the ranchers it was PUBLIC land with grazing rights. Did I miss where the poor innocent cows were rioting, looting, destroying property, and burning buildings down?

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

Oh no, the violent street mobs are finally getting arrested after running around destroying things and beating people up for a month. It's an outrage, I tell you, an outrage. Really, they were doing nothing wrong!

You know what, if you don't stand up in support of the leftist hate mobs, YOU could get arrested next time you throw a bottle at the police, and that would be LITERALLY NAZI GERMANY, I tell you!

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So the exercise of government authority is totally fine as long as you like the target and outcome? Just making sure I got it straightened out.

Wish AtlantaDan was still active. He would likely know for sure, but I'm not sure using drone footage of a crowd is a legal basis for detaining people.

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Originally Posted by Mach1

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

These poor innocent protesters aren't the victims here.

As for the ranchers it was PUBLIC land with grazing rights. Did I miss where the poor innocent cows were rioting, looting, destroying property, and burning buildings down?

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

What they did was illegal. They were in violation of the law and were illegally on the land. Multiple courts agreed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bro...islatures/amp/

This sounds like the stuff all those far right bug out bag preppers absolutely LIVE for.

But use it against the right groups...and all is well?

The logic is confusing to me. But then I'm kinda weird and easily confused.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

What they did was illegal. They were in violation of the law and were illegally on the land. Multiple courts agreed.

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So your good with the "badgeless government jackbooted soldiers" in this instance? Can't have it both ways when it suits your agenda.

Rioting, looting, arson is perfectly fine with you tho, right. Move along nothing to see here.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bro...islatures/amp/

This sounds like the stuff all those far right bug out bag preppers absolutely LIVE for.

But use it against the right groups...and all is well?

The logic is confusing to me. But then I'm kinda weird and easily confused.

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The far right boogie man strikes again. SMFH

Don't know if this is the final finding.

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For Immediate Release, April 9, 2019

Nevada Judge Dismisses Bundy Effort to Seize Public Lands

LAS VEGAS— Calling his legal claims “delusional,” a Nevada state court judge has dismissed rancher Cliven Bundy’s lawsuit to seize more than 58 million acres of federal lands and have them turned over to the state.

In a ruling made public today, Judge Jim Crockett of the 8th Judicial District Court in Las Vegas said Bundy has tried and failed three times over the past two decades to make the same claims. The court’s ruling came in response to a motion from the Center for Biological Diversity and found against all of Bundy’s claims in the case.

“The judge was being kind to call these claims delusional,” said Kierán Suckling, the Center’s executive director. “Bundy’s ridiculous legal theories have wasted the court’s time and taxpayer money. Hopefully this unequivocal ruling will encourage Bundy to finally pay his grazing fees and bring this nonsense to a close. I’m not holding my breath, though.”

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https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...04-09-2019.php

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Originally Posted by Mach1

So your good with the "badgeless government jackbooted soldiers" in this instance? Can't have it both ways when it suits your agenda.

Rioting, looting, arson is perfectly fine with you tho, right. Move along nothing to see here.

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All I'm saying is that all these right wing dudes hoped in their pickup trucks to go defend these dudes against government tyranny and individual freedoms are sacred blah blah blah. The fact that the government did everything it did out in the open and through established procedures didn't matter.

Now, not a peep from the same people. No warrants. Seems like local law enforcement might not have even known about it. To my knowledge this is a totally unprecedented use of federal power.

I don't understand how even assuming both groups are guilty; that one was an outrageous abuse of federal power and people were willing to die over it (one guy did) and the other is a satisfying victory over criminals.

Seems kinda intellectually bankrupt.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

All I'm saying is that all these right wing dudes hoped in their pickup trucks to go defend these dudes against government tyranny and individual freedoms are sacred blah blah blah. The fact that the government did everything it did out in the open and through established procedures didn't matter.

Now, not a peep from the same people. No warrants. Seems like local law enforcement might not have even known about it. To my knowledge this is a totally unprecedented use of federal power.

I don't understand how even assuming both groups are guilty; that one was an outrageous abuse of federal power and people were willing to die over it (one guy did) and the other is a satisfying victory over criminals.

Seems kinda intellectually bankrupt.

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How many innocent people have been murdered by these so called "peaceful protesters".

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...66&oe=5F374415

We are not even talking about the same thing. If you commit a crime, then you should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Just seems that when the government and police use "extra" to go after some groups (often those that have clearly violated the law), the don' tread on me crowd gets a Rambo boner and starts going on misty eyed rants about individual liberties and stroking their guns. When similar crap happens to other groups (also often clearly violating laws); the same folks stay oddly quite.

Kinda like how the ONLY time the NRA supported an assault weapons ban was when the Black Panthers started showing up places in armed groups. But if a bunch of folks wanna carry assault weapons and long guns into what they view as "liberal sanctuary towns" that's just freedom baby! Weird how that works...

Anyways...back to the issue at hand.

1. So we are throwing out innocent until proven guilty here because people were at a protest?
2. This quote by Oregon Pubic Broadcasting just sounds okay? " interviews conducted by OPB show officers are also detaining people on Portland streets who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity." -- https://www.opb.org/news/article/fed...nd-protesters/
3. If this was not a BLM protest but a COVID protest and the Obama administration was using unmarked civilian vehicles to detain people and keep zero records of it happening...WTF would have happened then?

As to the new patron saint of "All Lives Matter". Posted the closest single source I can find to the actual details further up. Clearly didn't read that. Two armed groups of folks got into a racial argument at 3:30 in the morning in a known high crime area of Indy and someone got shot. How shocking.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

So the exercise of government authority is totally fine as long as you like the target and outcome? Just making sure I got it straightened out.

Wish AtlantaDan was still active. He would likely know for sure, but I'm not sure using drone footage of a crowd is a legal basis for detaining people.

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Yeah, I kinda think it's ok for people to get arrested for committing violent crimes.

And - here's the part that will blow your mind - it's not ok for the government to arbitrarily take away your guaranteed rights for no reason at all, by exercising powers that it is expressly forbidden from using.

But no, you didn't make a totally idiotic comparison there, not at all.

Many appear to have committed no crime.

Either government over reach is to be steadfastly resisted at all turns or it doesn't really matter. It is one of those few true binary choices. Trying to have the cake and eat it too doesn't make sense here.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Many appear to have committed no crime.

Either government over reach is to be steadfastly resisted at all turns or it doesn't really matter. It is one of those few true binary choices. Trying to have the cake and eat it too doesn't make sense here.

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Don't play dumb, you know exactly who those people are. The chances that federal agents are just rounding up people at random, who did nothing wrong, and without any evidence, are vanishingly small. You can stop pretending.

What you are seeing is not "government overreach" in the slightest; it is simply a different agency stepping in to restore order after the local government went rogue and decided that violent street crime should be allowed. You have no argument. It is one of the weakest comparisons I could possibly imagine.

I don't know why you have such a particular soft spot for Antifa, but it's a bad look.

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

Don't play dumb, you know exactly who those people are. The chances that federal agents are just rounding up people at random, who did nothing wrong, and without any evidence, are vanishingly small. You can stop pretending.

What you are seeing is not "government overreach" in the slightest; it is simply a different agency stepping in to restore order after the local government went rogue and decided that violent street crime should be allowed. You have no argument. It is one of the weakest comparisons I could possibly imagine.

I don't know why you have such a particular soft spot for Antifa, but it's a bad look.

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So if that chance is so small as to not be a concern, then how is COVID being a thing that now only continues as a tool to extend government power such a certainty?

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

So if that chance is so small as to not be a concern, then how is COVID being a thing that now only continues as a tool to extend government power such a certainty?

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In one case, the violence and lawlessness was right out in the open for everybody to see.

In the other case, the overreach is right out in the open for everybody to see. So are the facts being used to justify it, and they do not agree with it at all.

Neither of these things are rocket science.

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

In one case, the violence and lawlessness was right out in the open for everybody to see.

In the other case, the overreach is right out in the open for everybody to see. So are the facts being used to justify it, and they do not agree with it at all.

Neither of these things are rocket science.

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Functionally it is the exact same. If you support COVID measures, there is no scary abuse of power. If you see all protestors as enemies of the state, there is no abuse of power. There's assumptions and biases in either argument. It's not a cut and dried situation.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Functionally it is the exact same. If you support COVID measures, there is no scary abuse of power. If you see all protestors as enemies of the state, there is no abuse of power. There's assumptions and biases in either argument. It's not a cut and dried situation.

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Same old song, based on the same ridiculous premise. If you cannot tell the difference between "all protesters are enemies of the state," and a violent street mob trashing cities and attacking people (who long ago ceased functioning as any kind of "protest," I might add, and are now simply a bunch of white Marxists using racial injustice as an excuse to wild out) ... well, then you are beyond help. Then again, you also believed that people were just plowing through crowds of "peaceful protesters" with their cars for no reason, so I guess it's not too surprising.

If your overall question can be boiled down to, do I think I am right and they are wrong about what constitutes government overreach - then yes, absolutely 100%.

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

Same old song, based on the same ridiculous premise. If you cannot tell the difference between "all protesters are enemies of the state," and a violent street mob trashing cities and attacking people (who long ago ceased functioning as any kind of "protest," I might add, and are now simply a bunch of white Marxists using racial injustice as an excuse to wild out) ... well, then you are beyond help. Then again, you also believed that people were just plowing through crowds of "peaceful protesters" with their cars for no reason, so I guess it's not too surprising.

If your overall question can be boiled down to, do I think I am right and they are wrong about what constitutes government overreach - then yes, absolutely 100%.

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It's still all based on assumptions. We all do it. But you're refusal to see your own assumptions for what they are undermines any statements you make. At least admit you're making them.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

It's still all based on assumptions. We all do it. But you're refusal to see your own assumptions for what they are undermines any statements you make. At least admit you're making them.

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What's actually going on is that you're defending an indefensible position on that one, so you're being dismissed out of hand and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. No biases or assumptions or undermined arguments, just plain old-fashioned distaste for something distasteful.

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Originally Posted by steelreserve

What's actually going on is that you're defending an indefensible position on that one, so you're being dismissed out of hand and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. No biases or assumptions or undermined arguments, just plain old-fashioned distaste for something distasteful.

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So to recap:
1. Forcing people to social distance and wear masks is a violation of freedom and liberty.
2. Unknown federal agencies driving around and taking people (several of whom committed no crimes) off the streets without warrants, with no statements of specific crimes, potentially outside their jurisdiction, and keeping no records of their activities is just dandy?

You must've loved the Patriot Act.