Justin Fields case for QB1

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Originally Posted by pczach

It is a learnable skill. However, it is something that needs to be worked on over and over and over again until it becomes a more natural act. On top of that, the degree of ability is always determined by a natural ability to do it.

It can be done. I have seen people get better at it by working diligently on improving that part of their game. Fields will also be limited by whatever his abilities allow.

I am not a tall person. I played the position and routinely had to throw the ball over people. I had a very good arm, but learning to alter your arm angle and putting extra loft on the ball to get it over defenders is something that is done out of necessity. I see that in Wilson where he is able to feather some throws with defenders in his face. I think that is partly why he is such a good deep ball thrower with touch. That was also my strength.

There are obviously large quarterbacks that are able to make all the throws, but I think the fact that Fields was such an athletic freak and didn't play in sophisticated passing offenses worked against him in this regard. He probably didn't have to alter throws to fit the ball in. He could just use his athleticism to run with the ball or buy more time to make a throw he could execute more easily. That's not a knock. That's just an observation based on seeing people that were bigger and more physically talented than me.

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That all makes a great deal of sense and fits with what it looks like when you watch Fields play.

Maybe you can get a job as a personal QB guru? Beats working for a living!

I still believe that Tomlin sees Fields as very very exiting long term solution. Fields was meant to be the develooment project all along .
Insane athletics
Calm and poised
Restricted playbook so far (muck like KP) as the "pole position" guy was injured
Learn, develop , look at Russ, learn, develop, meld with team, learn, develop. Repeat

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That all makes a great deal of sense and fits with what it looks like when you watch Fields play.

Maybe you can get a job as a personal QB guru? Beats working for a living!

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I would love to show everyone at an NFL level that I have no idea what I'm talking about for outrageous amounts of money. Sign me up!

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Originally Posted by pczach

I would love to show everyone at an NFL level that I have no idea what I'm talking about for outrageous amounts of money. Sign me up!

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All you got to do is get hired ONCE. Then your resume FOREVER says "NFL QB Coach"...thus ensuring you can ride the coaching carousel for as long as you want.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

All you got to do is get hired ONCE. Then your resume FOREVER says "NFL QB Coach"...thus ensuring you can ride the coaching carousel for as long as you want.

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It's like stealing. I'd be a made man.

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Originally Posted by pczach

It's like stealing. I'd be a made man.

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https://y.yarn.co/783dd7dc-676b-468a...6d503_text.gif

Assuming Wilson keeps playing well and we go deep in the playoffs and he resigns with us on a multi year deal, it’ll be interesting to see what they do with fields. He may get an opportunity to start elsewhere (Giants or Titans). I think he’s more apt to leave even if its a “chance” at a starting gig

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

Assuming Wilson keeps playing well and we go deep in the playoffs and he resigns with us on a multi year deal, it’ll be interesting to see what they do with fields. He may get an opportunity to start elsewhere (Giants or Titans). I think he’s more apt to leave even if its a “chance” at a starting gig

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That’s likely how Fields and his representatives have to approach it. He’s got like 1-2 more seasons where he could convince someone he is the answer. After that, he’s on the Jacoby Brissett career track.

That’s tens of millions of different things.

I also think that the excitement over Wilson is a bit over exaggerated. He played better than Fields but how good did he really play? And how much more does he have? In four eeeks is he playing the same, better, or worse? Open question.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

That’s likely how Fields and his representatives have to approach it. He’s got like 1-2 more seasons where he could convince someone he is the answer. After that, he’s on the Jacoby Brissett career track.

That’s tens of millions of different things.

I also think that the excitement over Wilson is a bit over exaggerated. He played better than Fields but how good did he really play? And how much more does he have? In four eeeks is he playing the same, better, or worse? Open question.

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I think Wilson played well any way you slice it. Of course it probably seemed greater than it was because we haven't seen that level of play since Ben. But it was the best debut of any Steeler QB in a long long time (before Terry).

How could he get worse unless he gets hurt or starts getting age related aches and pains during the week that he can't shake off? Otherwise i doubt he gets rattled or confused by what a defense may throw at him. He's seen it all at this stage and faced just about everything successfully. So aside from sudden physical deterioration he's at least plateaued and might very well get better. just my guess.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I also think that the excitement over Wilson is a bit over exaggerated. He played better than Fields but how good did he really play?

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Fields played and threw good passes to Pickens and Heyward and they didn't pull them in, and everybody said Fields played poorly. Wilson played and threw passes to Pickens and Friermuth and they pulled them in with spectacular catches, and everybody said Wilson played great.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I also think that the excitement over Wilson is a bit over exaggerated. He played better than Fields but how good did he really play?

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but did he really?

I mean Fields played teams with starting DBs , Russ played vs Sauce Gardener and the teams 6th , 7th and 8th best DBs the Jets were pummeled in the secondary ....

also we called a different game with more pass plays and more deep balls called and if we are Honest Russ's deep ball floats and is a recipe for disaster vs NFL quality starting DBs .... maybe thats Russ knocking off the rust , maybe not idk time will tell ....

Russ just completed 55% of his passes .... in 1970 that was good in 2024 not so much

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

but did he really?

I mean Fields played teams with starting DBs , Russ played vs Sauce Gardener and the teams 6th , 7th and 8th best DBs the Jets were pummeled in the secondary ....

also we called a different game with more pass plays and more deep balls called and if we are Honest Russ's deep ball floats and is a recipe for disaster vs NFL quality starting DBs .... maybe thats Russ knocking off the rust , maybe not idk time will tell ....

Russ just completed 55% of his passes .... in 1970 that was good in 2024 not so much

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Fields did not play all that well against the Cowboys or the Raiders.

I think Wilson played fine against the Jets but he’s got some work to do to round into shape.

He’s not gonna be able to take advantage of rub routes with the single high safety on the other hash forever.

But the team needs to see where it goes.

Basically, the offense finally looked like an NFL offense for the last 60% of the game. 31 unanswered points is pretty impressive. Let's not get too cute with the statistics.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Fields played and threw good passes to Pickens and Heyward and they didn't pull them in, and everybody said Fields played poorly. Wilson played and threw passes to Pickens and Friermuth and they pulled them in with spectacular catches, and everybody said Wilson played great.

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No, Wilson was better than Fields.

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

but did he really?

I mean Fields played teams with starting DBs , Russ played vs Sauce Gardener and the teams 6th , 7th and 8th best DBs the Jets were pummeled in the secondary ....

also we called a different game with more pass plays and more deep balls called and if we are Honest Russ's deep ball floats and is a recipe for disaster vs NFL quality starting DBs .... maybe thats Russ knocking off the rust , maybe not idk time will tell ....

Russ just completed 55% of his passes .... in 1970 that was good in 2024 not so much

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Some of these takes are a bit unfair. The cowboys were missing several starting defenders including their best (Micah Parsons) and their 2ndary players were dropping like flies ingame. If we're going to play this game we also need to acknowledge that Russell played without his intended starting O-line except for Seumalo going up against a really nasty Jets Front 7 where their strength is anyways. Russell has made outstanding throws under pressure since his rookie year and he still had that magic Sunday night. I thought his most impressive play by far was that off-platform throw on a shallow crosser to Freiermuth with an unblocked defender completely in his face. That was one hell of an adjustment.

Also Russell floating some of his passes is exactly why his biggest plays were completed. Throw a line drive on 100% of your throws like Fields and it places the defender favorably between the ball and the pass catcher way too often. I watched some of the big throws again and pretty much any of them that could be considered underthrows to some degree were influenced by a lot of pressure. The exception was the 1-handed Freiermuth catch, which he actually talked about being thrown where they both wanted it because he noticed defenders hand fighting with inside leverage a lot (and the film checks out)

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

Some of these takes are a bit unfair. The cowboys were missing several starting defenders including their best (Micah Parsons) and their 2ndary players were dropping like flies ingame. If we're going to play this game we also need to acknowledge that Russell played without his intended starting O-line except for Seumalo going up against a really nasty Jets Front 7 where their strength is anyways. Russell has made outstanding throws under pressure since his rookie year and he still had that magic Sunday night. I thought his most impressive play by far was that off-platform throw on a shallow crosser to Freiermuth with an unblocked defender completely in his face. That was one hell of an adjustment.

Also Russell floating some of his passes is exactly why his biggest plays were completed. Throw a line drive on 100% of your throws like Fields and it places the defender favorably between the ball and the pass catcher way too often. I watched some of the big throws again and pretty much any of them that could be considered underthrows to some degree were influenced by a lot of pressure. The exception was the 1-handed Freiermuth catch, which he actually talked about being thrown where they both wanted it because he noticed defenders hand fighting with inside leverage a lot (and the film checks out)

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Fields has too, in fact the line play looked better this past week than at any point in the season ( they have had some time to gel) Dallas backup d-line was manhandling our O-Line so not sure how that goes against Fields , the line sucked , he had no time but still drove us down the field for the go ahead score with 5 min left in the game , the defense then folded and let the cowboys win ....

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Originally Posted by Dwinsgames

Fields has too, in fact the line play looked better this past week than at any point in the season ( they have had some time to gel) Dallas backup d-line was manhandling our O-Line so not sure how that goes against Fields , the line sucked , he had no time but still drove us down the field for the go ahead score with 5 min left in the game , the defense then folded and let the cowboys win ....

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I agree completely with this. You may want to re-think it. :boink:

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

Some of these takes are a bit unfair. The cowboys were missing several starting defenders including their best (Micah Parsons) and their 2ndary players were dropping like flies ingame. If we're going to play this game we also need to acknowledge that Russell played without his intended starting O-line except for Seumalo going up against a really nasty Jets Front 7 where their strength is anyways. Russell has made outstanding throws under pressure since his rookie year and he still had that magic Sunday night. I thought his most impressive play by far was that off-platform throw on a shallow crosser to Freiermuth with an unblocked defender completely in his face. That was one hell of an adjustment.

Also Russell floating some of his passes is exactly why his biggest plays were completed. Throw a line drive on 100% of your throws like Fields and it places the defender favorably between the ball and the pass catcher way too often. I watched some of the big throws again and pretty much any of them that could be considered underthrows to some degree were influenced by a lot of pressure. The exception was the 1-handed Freiermuth catch, which he actually talked about being thrown where they both wanted it because he noticed defenders hand fighting with inside leverage a lot (and the film checks out)

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Do people not know that Russell Wilson has always thrown that style ball? That's his deep ball, it floats and then drops where it is supposed to. lol. He's made a pretty nice career out of throwing a moon ball style pass and there's been very little to no issues in the past. People need to watch a more variety of games. The line looked terrible to start against the Jets and then something changed. The line didn't learn how to play better, I suspect it was something Wilson called or did to make that better. Good QBs can do that from time to time.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

No, Wilson was better than Fields.

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He was better. Yes there were some great catches and a bunch of times threw jump balls. But you got to give Wilson credit for noticing single coverage and favorable matchups. Now if they can just grab a WR to contribute.

Wilson was better at picking the ball downfield. Fields was better at keeping plays alive and getting yardage they shouldn’t have gotten.

I still say that Wilson knew things that Fields did not and that helped the o-line.

Okay,
So, I'm back home in the US and was able to watch the last two games back to back. It gave me an interesting perspective on the two QBs. Both had weaknesses in their games. Wilson threw a lot of balls into the dirt Now, it may have been that he was throwing them so only his receiver could catch it, but they were too low for receptions. In fact, there were only two main differences for Wilson over Fields. The first, as has been mentioned a few times on this site, is that he has a lot more touch on the ball. He can throw a laser when he needs to but can also throw a good moonball that allows his receivers to get under it. The second is that he has more years in the game at the NFL level, and it shows. His decision-making is more polished and as a result, the offense just feels more cohesive. On the other hand, Fields is a bigger threat with his feet. Moreover, if Dallas or Oakland were his off games, I'll take it. He wasn't his best, but he was far ahead and anything we've seen in the last few years.

My biggest hope right now is that someone is taking Fields aside and going through tape of Wilson's play and explaining why touch is so important. Although I don't think Fields's ceiling is high enough to be a franchise QB, I do think he is good enough to give us playoff hopes every year and, with strong defense and good run game, perhaps win a SB. However, I would still be happy if we drafted a potential franchise QB in the next two or three years.

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Originally Posted by Craic

Okay,
So, I'm back home in the US and was able to watch the last two games back to back. It gave me an interesting perspective on the two QBs. Both had weaknesses in their games. Wilson threw a lot of balls into the dirt Now, it may have been that he was throwing them so only his receiver could catch it, but they were too low for receptions. In fact, there were only two main differences for Wilson over Fields. The first, as has been mentioned a few times on this site, is that he has a lot more touch on the ball. He can throw a laser when he needs to but can also throw a good moonball that allows his receivers to get under it. The second is that he has more years in the game at the NFL level, and it shows. His decision-making is more polished and as a result, the offense just feels more cohesive. On the other hand, Fields is a bigger threat with his feet. Moreover, if Dallas or Oakland were his off games, I'll take it. He wasn't his best, but he was far ahead and anything we've seen in the last few years.

My biggest hope right now is that someone is taking Fields aside and going through tape of Wilson's play and explaining why touch is so important. Although I don't think Fields's ceiling is high enough to be a franchise QB, I do think he is good enough to give us playoff hopes every year and, with strong defense and good run game, perhaps win a SB. However, I would still be happy if we drafted a potential franchise QB in the next two or three years.

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One of the other random things I never see Fields do is pump fake. He would benefit a lot from developing a good pump fake

QB room is full of adults now.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

QB room is full of adults now.

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So is the coaching room, which is even more important.

On the adult thing. I watched what we were able to see of Wilson and Fields interacting on the sidelines.

Adults. Got along. Not saying they’re gonna go get beers and wings after the game but got along professionally.

Also noticed in the Jets game on Wilson’s first big deep strike, Fields was running and cheering down the sideline.

Nice to see them not being pouty man children.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

On the adult thing. I watched what we were able to see of Wilson and Fields interacting on the sidelines.

Adults. Got along. Not saying they’re gonna go get beers and wings after the game but got along professionally.

Also noticed in the Jets game on Wilson’s first big deep strike, Fields was running and cheering down the sideline.

Nice to see them not being pouty man children.

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No way. that friendly banter was for tik tok. They hate each other like Joe Montana and Steve Young!

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Originally Posted by tube517

No way. that friendly banter was for tik tok. They hate each other like Joe Montana and Steve Young!

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Like Favre and Rodgers!

I noticed all the games that Fields is pointing and cheering and having a good time on the sidelines. He’s also dressing for the games!

:yawn:

I would keep Fields and do not think he wants to leave anyway. He can learn a lot from Wilson plus the team is cohesive instead of dysfunctional.