Justin Fields case for QB1

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

There was a route that Wilson threw to Washington after he had rolled out and he had Freiermuth so wide open over the top and he threw to Washington instead. Those are the things that drive me nuts with any QB…

According to Tom Brady, the middle of the field is the absolute easiest part of the field to throw to as a professional QB.

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I have no doubt that Wilson is not taking all that is there on each play as he hunts big plays and then gets into trouble as he holds the ball.

Nor am I under any illusions that Fields was doing any better. Fields time to throw is just as ridiculously long as a Steeler as Wilson's is. Steelers coaches publicly stated that Fields leaving plays on the field in the passing game was a major part of the reason to turn to Wilson.

It isn't like either guy is lighting it up with a high powered offense. Wilson gives you big plays with his arm. Fields provides them with his legs. For me it comes down to Fields being 10 years younger and looking like he is willing to change/adapt his play style to whatever the team needs.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

According to Tom Brady, the middle of the field is the absolute easiest part of the field to throw to as a professional QB.

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Not when you’re 5-11.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I have no doubt that Wilson is not taking all that is there on each play as he hunts big plays and then gets into trouble as he holds the ball.

Nor am I under any illusions that Fields was doing any better. Fields time to throw is just as ridiculously long as a Steeler as Wilson's is. Steelers coaches publicly stated that Fields leaving plays on the field in the passing game was a major part of the reason to turn to Wilson.

It isn't like either guy is lighting it up with a high powered offense. Wilson gives you big plays with his arm. Fields provides them with his legs. For me it comes down to Fields being 10 years younger and looking like he is willing to change/adapt his play style to whatever the team needs.

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The younger guy has more upside due to potential. I don't want to give up on him. I just have not seen anything that screams he'll get so much better, and soon.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

The younger guy has more upside due to potential. I don't want to give up on him. I just have not seen anything that screams he'll get so much better, and soon.

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Totally agree.

I just believe we are watching Wilson go over the age cliff in real time. In such a way that if I was running a team I wouldn’t want to give him 30 million plus.

Wilson had 2 nice throws to Austin , if he could repeat that on a regular basis, would be nice. A few 5 yard crossers hitting the guy in stride would also be great. That is something Fields may never be able to do. . So far in his career he's been pretty bad at hitting guys in rhythm

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at the end of the day 1 guy has been money in the red zone and the other has not ...in a perfect world you play the one who produces in the areas of the field they seems to excel in and hope the young guy is able to use those snaps to further develop and if he does not then next year you need to draft a qb

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Totally agree.

I just believe we are watching Wilson go over the age cliff in real time. In such a way that if I was running a team I wouldn’t want to give him 30 million plus.

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The tendencies are what seem to be the bigger problem for me right now. If I can tell what the Steelers are going to run, an opposing DC is most likely able to identify that as well. The whole short yardage play decision with the Justin Fields thing against Cleveland was just lazy and bizarre.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I have no doubt that Wilson is not taking all that is there on each play as he hunts big plays and then gets into trouble as he holds the ball.

Nor am I under any illusions that Fields was doing any better. Fields time to throw is just as ridiculously long as a Steeler as Wilson's is. Steelers coaches publicly stated that Fields leaving plays on the field in the passing game was a major part of the reason to turn to Wilson.

It isn't like either guy is lighting it up with a high powered offense. Wilson gives you big plays with his arm. Fields provides them with his legs. For me it comes down to Fields being 10 years younger and looking like he is willing to change/adapt his play style to whatever the team needs.

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But, but, everybody here is saying that this is a big upgrade over the QB room last year. :huh:

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

The tendencies are what seem to be the bigger problem for me right now. If I can tell what the Steelers are going to run, an opposing DC is most likely able to identify that as well. The whole short yardage play decision with the Justin Fields thing against Cleveland was just lazy and bizarre.

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That's where they get into trouble with cute play calling instead of high probability plays given where they are located on the field.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

But, but, everybody here is saying that this is a big upgrade over the QB room last year. :huh:

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That is also true. Any flaws that are present in the QB room this year are still multiple times better than last year.

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Originally Posted by ALLD

That's where they get into trouble with cute play calling instead of high probability plays given where they are located on the field.

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I get every now and again or if the matchup leads a QB to making a decision. But at some point, they have to go for the first down and sometimes they need to be more creative than the standard…

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

But, but, everybody here is saying that this is a big upgrade over the QB room last year. :huh:

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Russell Wilson: 7 TD's in 5 games.
Kenny Pickett: 13 TD's in 25 games.

Discuss.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Russell Wilson: 7 TD's in 5 games.
Kenny Pickett: 13 TD's in 25 games.

Discuss.

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But Kenny Pickett was with Mason Rudolph who never got a chance in 7 years and Mitchell Trubisky who was second choice to back up Josh Allen to the Steelers 3rd QB. Pickett had more TDs. Wilson won't throw 6 more TDs over 20 games...are you insane?

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

But, but, everybody here is saying that this is a big upgrade over the QB room last year. :huh:

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it doesnt take much when you have 3 dirty diapers as the only clothing to put on the baby and that is what we had last year shitty QBs

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Russell Wilson: 7 TD's in 5 games.
Kenny Pickett: 13 TD's in 25 games.

Discuss.

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To be fair, one was under the Canada offense and the other under a functional smith offense. Big difference. I dont know what KP’s true potential is, right now he's buried on the bench, never got to develop under a proper NFL system. For all we know his confidence is shot too. I think its unfair to diss the guy. He might’ve chose poorly in wanting a trade but i predicted that reaction when the rumours of Wilson coming were out there. He's was only 25, not uncommon for a guy that age to get bent out of shape.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

To be fair, one was under the Canada offense and the other under a functional smith offense. Big difference. I dont know what KP’s true potential is, right now he's buried on the bench, never got to develop under a proper NFL system. For all we know his confidence is shot too. I think it’s unfair to diss the guy. He might’ve chose poorly in wanting a trade but i predicted that reaction when the rumours of Wilson coming were out there. He's was only 25, not uncommon for a guy that age to get bent out of shape.

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My biggest diss of KP is him quitting when competition arrived. He hadn’t earned anything in his career. It can be debated whether or not he quit, but in my book, he did (and it’s not gray either).

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

To be fair, one was under the Canada offense and the other under a functional smith offense. Big difference. I dont know what KP’s true potential is, right now he's buried on the bench, never got to develop under a proper NFL system. For all we know his confidence is shot too. I think its unfair to diss the guy. He might’ve chose poorly in wanting a trade but i predicted that reaction when the rumours of Wilson coming were out there. He's was only 25, not uncommon for a guy that age to get bent out of shape.

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I know Canada sucked, and I'm sure that did affect Kenny's play on the one hand. On the other, I don't believe that ALL of Kenny's problems were due to Canada. I have to think that Russ would have looked better playing under Canada, and I suspect Kenny wouldn't look as good as Russ under Smith now.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

My biggest diss of KP is him quitting when competition arrived. He hadn’t earned anything in his career. It can be debated whether or not he quit, but in my book, he did (and it’s not gray either).

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He didn’t quit. Tomlin screwed him…just like he did to Mason for 7 years…

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Russell Wilson: 7 TD's in 5 games.
Kenny Pickett: 13 TD's in 25 games.

Discuss.

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OK. With an average of 1.4 TD's a game despite the advantage of NOT being burdened by Matt Canada and NOT playing particularly good defenses his first three games, Wilson is badly underperforming,

Discuss.

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

OK. With an average of 1.4 TD's a game despite the advantage of NOT being burdened by Matt Canada and NOT playing particularly good defenses his first three games, Wilson is badly underperforming,

Discuss.

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1.4 is almost 3 times greater than KP’s .52 . Not much to discuss. Even on downside of career Wilson 3 times more productive than your boy. Thank god you have zero impact on decision making. You just keep doubling down and busting.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I know Canada sucked, and I'm sure that did affect Kenny's play on the one hand. On the other, I don't believe that ALL of Kenny's problems were due to Canada. I have to think that Russ would have looked better playing under Canada, and I suspect Kenny wouldn't look as good as Russ under Smith now.

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when you cant audible your limited. When you design rollout to one side or the other you cut the field in half and make it easier for pass defense. When your told to go with the first short yardage read and you obey its bad (some of that may be on KP). His pocket presence was bad too but that could be developed. So your right, its both Canada and KP. To me mostly Canada as KP was just a rookie and needed development. Bad move on his part bolting but then again he was a first round pick and 25. Cant expect all those guys to handle things maturely.

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

when you cant audible your limited. When you design rollout to one side or the other you cut the field in half and make it easier for pass defense. When your told to go with the first short yardage read and you obey its bad (some of that may be on KP). His pocket presence was bad too but that could be developed. So your right, its both Canada and KP. To me mostly Canada as KP was just a rookie and needed development. Bad move on his part bolting but then again he was a first round pick and 25. Cant expect all those guys to handle things maturely.

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Kenny saw the writing on the wall, there was no future for him with the steelers. Kenny made a business decision for himself just like so many other nfl players do. Call him selfish,not a team player, a big crybaby, whatever you want, I call him smart.

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

Kenny saw the writing on the wall, there was no future for him with the steelers. Kenny made a business decision for himself just like so many other nfl players do. Call him selfish,not a team player, a big crybaby, whatever you want, I call him smart.

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He has even less of a future with the Eagles. How's that smart?

If he was smart , he would have forced a trade to a QB needy team .

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

Kenny saw the writing on the wall, there was no future for him with the steelers. Kenny made a business decision for himself just like so many other nfl players do. Call him selfish,not a team player, a big crybaby, whatever you want, I call him smart.

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Wilson is 36 , Hurts 26. So how is that smart? More like he made decision based on emotions like most 25 year olds do. Hardly smart.

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

Kenny saw the writing on the wall, there was no future for him with the steelers. Kenny made a business decision for himself just like so many other nfl players do. Call him selfish,not a team player, a big crybaby, whatever you want, I call him smart.

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https://media1.tenor.com/m/lj2gvqxBt...es-brandon.gif

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Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

OK. With an average of 1.4 TD's a game despite the advantage of NOT being burdened by Matt Canada and NOT playing particularly good defenses his first three games, Wilson is badly underperforming,

Discuss.

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And yet, Kenny was worse.

I dont think Russ is underperforming. He playing as well as a 36 year old 5-11 former multi all pro with good defensive reading capability can behind our weak O line and marginal receiving corps (outside of pickens the receivers are no 3 or 4’s if that)

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

1.4 is almost 3 times greater than KP’s .52 . Not much to discuss. Even on downside of career Wilson 3 times more productive than your boy. Thank god you have zero impact on decision making. You just keep doubling down and busting.

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If Wilson continues averaging 1.4 TD's a game we're busting with him too. At least Kenny was young and had the potential to improve.

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

Kenny saw the writing on the wall, there was no future for him with the steelers. Kenny made a business decision for himself just like so many other nfl players do. Call him selfish,not a team player, a big crybaby, whatever you want, I call him smart.

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I think most people who don't have a vested interest in being "right" about Kenny failing would agree with you.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

He has even less of a future with the Eagles. How's that smart?

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For one thing, he's learning under a better system and a better coach.

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Originally Posted by NCSteeler

If he was smart , he would have forced a trade to a QB needy team .

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Yeah, he had all kind of leverage to force that kind of a trade. :rolleyes:

Back to Fields.
I feels like Russ will get the 51% starts (best shot at winning now, also keeping the 4th pick). But I also believe we now see Russ start to become average at best, due to age or general meh..
I beleive Tomlin really wants Fields to develop into his fullest capacity. He will give that a serious shot
I do too

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

He has even less of a future with the Eagles. How's that smart?

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Well, No one knows what kind of future he has with the Eagles. Time will tell, maybe he get's released, maybe traded,maybe Hurts get's injured and he comes in and does well Who knows? Just too many scenarios can happen :shrug:I don't hate on KP I wish him well.

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

Well, No one knows what kind of future he has with the Eagles. Time will tell, maybe he get's released, maybe traded,maybe Hurts get's injured and he comes in and does well Who knows? Just too many scenarios can happen :shrug:I don't hate on KP I wish him well.

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Yep

Nobody has any idea how this all will play out. We are 12 games removed from Pickett being here. Anyone that claims to know is lying to themselves.

Jalen Hurts was playing at a less than average level for almost 12 games between last season and the first 5-6 games this season. He finally got it going and the Eagles are rolling now. Pickett is one play away from getting another shot as a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is currently learning a new offense that he has hardly gotten any experience playing in.

Way too many people think they have a quarterback figured out after watching them play a few games. It doesn't work that way.....even with seasoned veterans that are already supposed to understand offenses and have the ability to read defenses and identify what defenses are trying to do to him....even though that quarterback has seen everything imaginable over 16 seasons of being a starting NFL quarterback.

Defenses watch tape and figure out the weaknesses in offenses, in protections, in quarterbacks, in tendencies, and then they adjust how they play against that team or that player. It takes time to really know how even a seasoned quarterback fits into a scheme and executes an NFL offense.

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Originally Posted by pczach

Yep

Nobody has any idea how this all will play out. We are 12 games removed from Pickett being here. Anyone that claims to know is lying to themselves.

Jalen Hurts was playing at a less than average level for almost 12 games between last season and the first 5-6 games this season. He finally got it going and the Eagles are rolling now. Pickett is one play away from getting another shot as a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is currently learning a new offense that he has hardly gotten any experience playing in.

Way too many people think they have a quarterback figured out after watching them play a few games. It doesn't work that way.....even with seasoned veterans that are already supposed to understand offenses and have the ability to read defenses and identify what defenses are trying to do to him....even though that quarterback has seen everything imaginable over 16 seasons of being a starting NFL quarterback.

Defenses watch tape and figure out the weaknesses in offenses, in protections, in quarterbacks, in tendencies, and then they adjust how they play against that team or that player. It takes time to really know how even a seasoned quarterback fits into a scheme and executes an NFL offense.

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Usually takes a few seasons.

CJ Stroud…this season…looks like he’s really not as great as everyone thought.

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Originally Posted by ncgjka

Back to Fields.
I feels like Russ will get the 51% starts (best shot at winning now, also keeping the 4th pick). But I also believe we now see Russ start to become average at best, due to age or general meh..
I beleive Tomlin really wants Fields to develop into his fullest capacity. He will give that a serious shot
I do too

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I also think the FO and Tomlin are behind Justin Fields getting signed this offseason and going forward with Fields as the QB1. I also think there will be some conversation with Russ about expectations from both sides and possibly signing Russ to stay on as the veteran backup/mentor. The guys in charge of putting the team together seem to like the dynamic in the QB room, and will probably try to somehow maintain it.

Very possible we see more Justin Fields this week. The Bengals give up yards by the bunches. Fields can excel vs the Bengals. Just my opinion.

So, I think it was Fitipaldo that mentioned Russ at 40 million over 3 years. So would you rather have Russ at 40 million a year for 3 years or Justin at 20 million per year for 3 years? How much does your opinion change if Russ leads the Steelers to a playoff victory?

The issue for me comes down to whether you think Fields will actually develop into player capable of passing a team to big victories on a consistent basis. Much rather have the younger player - all things being equal. However, the money savings is irrelevant if Justin has a ceiling below that level. If he does have that ceiling, then you're just wasting some great defensive player careers, and we might as well just throw the 40 million at Russ (which isn't really that much money for a starting QB) and hope that we get two good years out of him.

I’m thinking it doesn’t make a difference if they don’t fix the O-Line. I don’t think the line is as bad as it’s been but it’s not that improved either. There’s clearly a lot of talent on the line. I just don’t think they are prepared or coached well enough.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I’m thinking it doesn’t make a difference if they don’t fix the O-Line. I don’t think the line is as bad as it’s been but it’s not that improved either. There’s clearly a lot of talent on the line. I just don’t think they are prepared or coached well enough.

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What I don't get is last year the offensive line got better at the end of the year. I keep waiting for that and it doesn't seem to be happening.

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

I’m thinking it doesn’t make a difference if they don’t fix the O-Line. I don’t think the line is as bad as it’s been but it’s not that improved either. There’s clearly a lot of talent on the line. I just don’t think they are prepared or coached well enough.

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have to agree, Jones, Seumalo, Frazier, Fautena, McCormack/Moore should be a good line. Two guys are on IR, but still Jones and Moore struggle. Communication is an issue (Frazier?) They dont use Najee in pass protection help enough. I think they can do better with better O line coaching. Almost 4 sacks a game in the last four.

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Originally Posted by steelcityboyz

Kenny saw the writing on the wall, there was no future for him with the steelers. Kenny made a business decision for himself just like so many other nfl players do. Call him selfish,not a team player, a big crybaby, whatever you want, I call him smart.

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Yeah, we as fans dont know all the details of what went on behind the scenes and what was said. I think the refusing to suit up story is just a rumor (never substantiated). I thought KP shouldve stayed but i dont know the whole story.

I'm dubious that Fields will ever be as good a QB as we need.