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You don't know what you don't know.
Anyone who wants LeBeau to retire all I've got to say to you is that you don't know what you don't know. Yeah I'm dissapointed with the result tonight, I wish we could have forced a turnover, held them to field goals after those turnovers etc... But there's two teams out there, the Packers are f'ing lethal on a fast track, we held them to 24 offenisve points. Not great, but it could have been good enough, we had the ball with time at the end. If stupid K. Fox doesn't take a stupid and needless penalty who knows?
Also, any of you that want to blame Ben for that pick six, you too are clueless. WTF was Ben supposed to do, take the safety? He was hit as he was throwing, Kemo got beat clean at the snap and Ben either takes the safety of gets called for intentional grounding if he throws it away, which of course also results in a safety. In other words he had no good option on that play, if he isn't getting hit as he throws that ball he probably gets a harmless incompletion.
Granted Ben didn't play great, but he wasn't terrible either, certainly not a goat. Neither was Mendy. Yeah that was a terrible fumble, but shit happens.
In the end the Packers earned it, don't be hater and look to toss anyone under the bus tonight.
Losing sucks, no doubt, but damn it this team went out fighting. They made it a game almost to the final gun. Be proud of this team.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Agreed. It was a complete team loss and looking for a singular scapegoat to pin the loss on is wrong. Good post.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fansince'76
Agreed. It was a complete team loss and looking for a singular scapegoat to pin the loss on is wrong. Good post.
I would like to box Keyaron Fox's ear's right now, but other than that, I'm cool.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Meh. I am perfectly comfortable with the explanation that the reason we lost is that we played a bad game and made mistakes. But I've increasingly seen the defensive part of the bad game happen for a reason over the past couple years. I'm growing more of the mind that Polamalu, when used right, is responsible for making LeBeau look like a great coordinator. When LeBeau goes off on his nickel tangent, the defense collapses at key times and everybody goes "Where was Troy?" He was back 20 yards in the secondary trying to suck his own dick because that's where we told him to go, that's where.
Yeah, we made mistakes in all areas of the game, but I still think we could've won it. And the defensive scheme is the place where that could've happened.
A year ago, who the hell would've guessed that Arians would've been the coordinator I'd be praising because he finally "gets it" and LeBeau would be the one I think is unimaginative and gets us into bad situations with vanilla playcalling.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Meh. I am perfectly comfortable with the explanation that the reason we lost is that we played a bad game and made mistakes. But I've increasingly seen the defensive part of the bad game happen for a reason over the past couple years. I'm growing more of the mind that Polamalu, when used right, is responsible for making LeBeau look like a great coordinator. When LeBeau goes off on his nickel tangent, the defense collapses at key times and everybody goes "Where was Troy?"
Yeah, we made mistakes in all areas of the game, but I still think we could've won it. And the defensive scheme is the place where that could've happened.
A year ago, who the hell would've guessed that Arians would've been the coordinator I'd be praising because he finally "gets it" and LeBeau would be the one I think is unimaginative and gets us into bad situations with vanilla playcalling.
That's your opinion, doesn't make it right. If you had access to game film you'd probably view things differently.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
I think the situation withe LeBeau is not much of firing him or forcing him into retirement. But the fact that his career is numbered, and that Keith Butler is on the horizon of being nabbed up by a team like AZ or another team looking for a DC has raised our sense of urgency on wether to ride out Dick or to establish Kieith as our DC, one that is much younger. Other than that, you can only do so much, our DB's suck. lol
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
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Originally Posted by
zulater
That's your opinion, doesn't make it right. If you had access to game film you'd probably view things differently.
Doesn't make you right either, and I don't see you with access to game film either.
Part of the NFL is that people make mistakes, including coaches and coordinators. People have bad habits, and opponents take advantage of them. You do not always need an advanced degree in professional football to see that. Opinion dismissed.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Doesn't make you right either, and I don't see you with access to game film either.
Part of the NFL is that people make mistakes, including coaches and coordinators. People have bad habits, and opponents take advantage of them. You do not always need an advanced degree in professional football to see that. Opinion dismissed.
Go take your resume to the Steelers, I'm sure they can tell you something constructive to do with it.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zulater
Go take your resume to the Steelers, I'm sure they can tell you something constructive to do with it.
Likewise. I'm sure they're in great need of a yes-man right now. And being blind will probably get you points for diversity.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Likewise. I'm sure they're in great need of a yes-man right now. And being blind will probably get you points for diversity.
Yeah they all suck, how the fuck they ever made it to the Super bowl with that dimwit Le Beau is beyond me.
Now am I smart like you?
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. To be completely honest neither of your opinions really matter at all to the Steelers. So stop bitching at each other.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
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Originally Posted by
zulater
Yeah they all suck, how the fuck they ever made it to the Super bowl with that dimwit Le Beau is beyond me.
Now am I smart like you?
No, apparently you're still blind and a moron like before, only you've learned sarcasm. In hindsight, I was probably wrong -- maybe you should take your resume to the Lions instead.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
OK, that will be enough from you two. Knock off the insults.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
No, apparently you're still blind and a moron like before, only you've learned sarcasm. In hindsight, I was probably wrong -- maybe you should take your resume to the Lions instead.
No resume, just a fan. Just not a spoiled fan who thinks his team should never get beat. Yeah it hurts and sucks right now, but I'm appreciative of the ride. It was a great season even if it didn't end how I wanted.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zulater
No resume, just a fan. Just not a spoiled fan who thinks his team should never get beat. Yeah it hurts and sucks right now, but I'm appreciative of the ride. It was a great season even if it didn't end how I wanted.
Dude ... pointing out where we screwed up does not make anyone "spoiled" or think "we should never get beat." You made a thread telling people not to blame the loss on any specific problem, and there are specific things that went wrong. I don't understand what you were hoping for ... nobody to respond to your thread?
Anyway, yeah, I agree with the moderator, nothing is getting solved here, so in everyone's best interests, I'm leaving this thread alone and hoping everyone can just go get nice and drunk.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Dude ... pointing out where we screwed up does not make anyone "spoiled" or think "we should never get beat." You made a thread telling people not to blame the loss on any specific problem, and there are specific things that went wrong. I don't understand what you were hoping for ... nobody to respond to your thread?
Anyway, yeah, I agree with the moderator, nothing is getting solved here, so in everyone's best interests, I'm leaving this thread alone and hoping everyone can just go get nice and drunk.
Sorry dude, but I think it's unfair to throw this loss on the coordinaters, either of them, or the head coach. I don't know everything that went into the game plan, and maybe it wasn't perfect, but I know we were in a position to win the game with 2 minutes to go, this despite 3 offensive turnovers, so the defense wasn't all to blame or even primarily.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
My only issue with Coach Lebeau is that I'm not a fan of these soft coverages. The back up corners for Green Bay were all over our receivers, how is it that we are leaving WR SOOO open on some of these plays. Why are we still reverting back to having cornerbacks play 10 yards off at the start of the play? I thought we had put that scheme to bed after New England torched us....and there it was again. Green Bay was frequently in some max protection packages with only 3 receivers going out and Rogers is still getting rid of the ball in less than 3 seconds to wide open guys....Lebeau needs a true cover corner opposite of Ike.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
If Dick Lebeau leaves or retires it would be the worst day of my life.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Fair enough. And I agree the defense wasn't the only problem, obviously. But I did see the Packers march down the field basically unopposed at key times, and I've seen that before in other games. I think the defensive scheme has a lot to do with it, and also with why we do/don't create turnovers of our own.
Green Bay: 0 interceptions
New England: 0 interceptions
NYJ (1): 0 interceptions
NYJ (2): 0 interceptions
NO: 1 interception on a 50-yard bomb
Those are the games we played the sit-back. Just saying. We don't create turnovers OR cover the receivers playing that way. And we seem to only play it when we're afraid of ... something.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
This is a copycat league-- and also a league where once something is exposed, its exposed for good.
In 2002, the Steelers version of the 3-4 fireblitz was exposed. Spread out the team, and you can throw all day on them. Run slant routes, and you can throw all day on them. There have been times when that problem has been covered up, but never a time when it has actually been fixed. I think that is a scheme problem, and the basic problem in Lebeau's scheme.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist--or a resume to see that. However, how to fix it? Now THAT DOES take a rocket scientist, or at least an NFL experienced coach to fix it. I have no clue how. I just hope it gets done.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
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Originally Posted by
Preacher
It doesn't take a rocket scientist--or a resume to see that. However, how to fix it? Now THAT DOES take a rocket scientist, or at least an NFL experienced coach to fix it. I have no clue how. I just hope it gets done.
Simple: two CBs capable of playing man-to-man coverage, plus someone capable of disrupting the dink-and-dunk slant over the middle to the TE or the third receiver.
Taylor is one of the two CBs; problem is, Clark can't be the over-the-middle guy by himself, and McFadden can't be the second CB by himself (unless Clark helps, which really lets people clean our clock over the middle). Polamalu is out of the question for either, because we need him in the wildcard role or we're sunk anyway. And normally, the nickel back could help with one of those two, but with our current personnel, that doesn't work.
Seems to me that the answer is to either find a second CB who's very good, find a second ILB who's versatile like Timmons, or replace Clark with Ronnie Lott.
Basically, this tells me that our problem between now and the last time we won a title is that Gay isn't as good as Townsend. Amazing that something like that could cost us a Super Bowl. Man, I wish we'd brought that guy back for one more year -- except that age was probably getting to be too much of a problem anyway.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steelreserve
Simple: two CBs capable of playing man-to-man coverage, plus someone capable of disrupting the dink-and-dunk slant over the middle to the TE or the third receiver.
Taylor is one of the two CBs; problem is, Clark can't be the over-the-middle guy by himself, and McFadden can't be the second CB by himself (unless Clark helps, which really lets people clean our clock over the middle). Polamalu is out of the question for either, because we need him in the wildcard role or we're sunk anyway. And normally, the nickel back could help with one of those two, but with our current personnel, that doesn't work.
Seems to me that the answer is to either find a second CB who's very good, find a second ILB who's versatile like Timmons, or replace Clark with Ronnie Lott.
Basically, this tells me that our problem between now and the last time we won a title is that Gay isn't as good as Townsend. Amazing that something like that could cost us a Super Bowl. Man, I wish we'd brought that guy back for one more year -- except that age was probably getting to be too much of a problem anyway.
Except that, if we roll up our CB's to play continued man to man coverage, we lose our outside contain on the run, since their responsibility is precisely that in the zone scheme-which is why they usually don't come up tight on WR's. If we leave our CB's on an island in man coverage, then our safeties have to come down to take their zone on the run, which means they will have to play much closer to the LOS, but spread out more, once again leaving the middle open, without anyone up top to clamp down on the long plays (those 18 yarders turning into 30 yarders)
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
OK, then, to explain it another way without getting caught up in how the execution turns out on any given play: We need a second CB who can cover better ... or we need a nickel back, or a second LB besides Timmons, who can legitimately guard the TE or third WR. I'm not talking about changing our overall scheme, but we do have a few places where mismatches happen. We don't compensate for that well against pass-heavy teams. And for that matter, we should've taken advantage of that better on offense against Green Bay, because it was there on their side of the ball too.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Did not play as well as we can on the day, and Packers did.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Keith Butler's already stated that he's not leaving Pittsburgh. He knows that he's next in line for the defensive coordinator spot, and it doesn't get any better than coaching the defense in Pittsburgh. The players know the scheme well, and he won't be forced to make changes or wait a few years to stockpile draft picks into a system that he just stepped into.
LeBeau's a toss up at this point. Had we won tonight, then I think he retires, but now I'm not so sure. He doesn't want to go out with a Super Bowl loss, so he may just come back.
All this hate for Keyaron Fox begs the question: what about Polamalu? The only time he was in the frame was during Greg Jenning's two touchdown receptions. Or what about William Gay and Bryant McFadden? They were getting beat like red headed stepchildren all game long. This was a total team loss, can't blame Fox's bonehead penalty alone.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Am I disappointed with the loss? Yes. Am I going to throw any one player or coach under the bus for that loss? Hell NO. You win as a team, you lose as a team. The Pack turned our fubars into points - that is what a championship team does and they did it beautifully. THAT was the difference in who hoisted that Lombardi last night and who didn't.
While I've been on the Papa's ass here and there over the last couple of seasons because he seems to go soft when the Steelers have a lead, I can't in good conscience point the finger at him or call for his dismissal. As the players will tell anyone who asks - Coach Lebeau is the driving force behind them and has made them who they are, not only as individual players, but as a unit. I'd be happy if the Papa sticks around for the next 10 seasons! :applaudit:
I feel the same about BA and the rest of our coaching staff. With the addition of Coaches Kugler and Everest, I strongly feel we have a superior coaching staff who together, are going to take our Steelers to more Super Bowls in the seasons to come!
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
I've criticized Dick as much as anyone here, but please don't talk about him leave, not right now, I'm not ready for that guys. I hope he has at least one more year in him, or 2 or 3, or 4.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
I don't think this loss was on the coaches. Look at two of the plays that hurt us the most--Ben's second pick, and Troy getting beat for the last Green Bay touchdown. In both cases, they improvised. Troy sold out on the seam route, and Ben tried to force the ball into an area with two green jerseys.
Those high risk plays are our bread and butter. Last night we got the risk instead of the reward.
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zulater
Anyone who wants LeBeau to retire all I've got to say to you is that you don't know what you don't know. Yeah I'm dissapointed with the result tonight, I wish we could have forced a turnover, held them to field goals after those turnovers etc... But there's two teams out there, the Packers are f'ing lethal on a fast track, we held them to 24 offenisve points. Not great, but it could have been good enough, we had the ball with time at the end. If stupid K. Fox doesn't take a stupid and needless penalty who knows?
Also, any of you that want to blame Ben for that pick six, you too are clueless. WTF was Ben supposed to do, take the safety? He was hit as he was throwing, Kemo got beat clean at the snap and Ben either takes the safety of gets called for intentional grounding if he throws it away, which of course also results in a safety. In other words he had no good option on that play, if he isn't getting hit as he throws that ball he probably gets a harmless incompletion.
Granted Ben didn't play great, but he wasn't terrible either, certainly not a goat. Neither was Mendy. Yeah that was a terrible fumble, but shit happens.
In the end the Packers earned it, don't be hater and look to toss anyone under the bus tonight.
Losing sucks, no doubt, but damn it this team went out fighting. They made it a game almost to the final gun. Be proud of this team.
How dare you put together a logical post after losing the super bowl!
And I agree with you!
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Re: You don't know what you don't know.
I definitely don't pin this SB loss on any of the coaches. How could anyone who watched the game say it was poorly coached ? Sure, there were a few play calls that I wondered ' what the hell was that ?' ( 52 FG attempt ), but as coach explained after the game that Sushi had the distance in pre-game practice---still stupid in my book, I would have rather tried to pin them deep in their territory. I think the only difference between the win and loss was the TURNOVERS and PENALTIES !! We just spotted them too much. In the SB you have the 2 BEST teams ( supposedly ) and one team giving the other 3 more chances to score will decide game results. It just makes you wonder what could have happened if we recovered that fumble on the kick.
