12 team college football proposal is terrible

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-summer-study/

Seriously, why are they all of a sudden expanding to 12 teams? For money? To appease crybabies demanding participation trophies who complain about there being not enough teams in the league? 12 team playoff will be a joke. Is there really a demand to see the Florida Gators, the default winner of the Pac12, and whatever athletically disadvantaged Big10 west champion that Ohio State runs over in the Big10 championship game defecate all over themselves in the playoffs every year? Remember the 2019 playoff game between LSU and Oklahoma that resembled every game between a top 5 team and whatever FCS school they pay to beat up on? Get ready for that every year under this proposal. Are there people who actually think this is a good idea?

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-summer-study/

Seriously, why are they all of a sudden expanding to 12 teams? For money? To appease crybabies demanding participation trophies who complain about there being not enough teams in the league? 12 team playoff will be a joke. Is there really a demand to see the Florida Gators, the default winner of the Pac12, and whatever athletically disadvantaged Big10 west champion that Ohio State runs over in the Big10 championship game defecate all over themselves in the playoffs every year? Remember the 2019 playoff game between LSU and Oklahoma that resembled every game between a top 5 team and whatever FCS school they pay to beat up on? Get ready for that every year under this proposal. Are there people who actually think this is a good idea?

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For me personally, I would like to see a playoff where each conference champion gets a spot in the playoffs. That's 10 conference tie-ins plus 2 at large which can come from a conference runnerup and/or an Independent. I understand that will never happen and I understand why. Expanding the playoff needs to happen though. This format works at every other level of football. I don't see why it can't work here. I'm tired of seeing the same 4-5 schools in it every single year. Why would the elite HS recruits choose to play anywhere else other than one of those?

As long as it doesn’t add games to the end of the college season, I am good with that. If you add games, that’s more wear and tear on these athletes that are going to go to the NFL and whose to say that the top NFL prospects won’t then sit out the extra games to prevent injury giving us a watered down version of a college playoff?

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Originally Posted by 86WARD

As long as it doesn’t add games to the end of the college season, I am good with that. If you add games, that’s more wear and tear on these athletes that are going to go to the NFL and whose to say that the top NFL prospects won’t then sit out the extra games to prevent injury giving us a watered down version of a college playoff?

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That's a solid point too. Another option is just don't worry about a 'national' champion since the playing field is completely slanted anyway. Let each conference play for their individual champions and end it there. Players still may sit out but I think it would be a whole lot fewer than sit out bowl games today.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

For me personally, I would like to see a playoff where each conference champion gets a spot in the playoffs. That's 10 conference tie-ins plus 2 at large which can come from a conference runnerup and/or an Independent. I understand that will never happen and I understand why. Expanding the playoff needs to happen though. This format works at every other level of football. I don't see why it can't work here. I'm tired of seeing the same 4-5 schools in it every single year. Why would the elite HS recruits choose to play anywhere else other than one of those?

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What we are getting though is 6 top conference champions plus the top 6 at-large bid. This would basically allow the committee to stack up on 4-5 SEC schools every year

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

What we are getting though is 6 top conference champions plus the top 6 at-large bid. This would basically allow the committee to stack up on 4-5 SEC schools every year

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Agreed that would suck. There is no way the P5 conferences would share the money with 'real' conference champs. Probably end up with Clemson and ND from ACC play, the SEC East and West winners, BIG10 Champ(OSU usually), BIG12 Champ(Oklahoma usually), PAC12 Champ(PAC12 would finally get to play every year), somehow Texas would make it, the highest ranked team from the Go5 conferences, and then 3 legitimate at large teams(also P5 conference schools).

There's never going to be a legitimate playoff system in 'division1' football. The best you can hope for is 'your team' makes the field every once in a while.

I’m 100% for playoff expansion. I’d be happy with 8 but 12 is good too. 1-AA has been doing 16 teams forever and I’m not aware of any health or academic issues stemming from their playoff. Four teams is not enough. I get sick of seeing Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State every year. If they stay in, which they will, increase the odds of an upset with more teams.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Agreed that would suck. There is no way the P5 conferences would share the money with 'real' conference champs. Probably end up with Clemson and ND from ACC play, the SEC East and West winners, BIG10 Champ(OSU usually), BIG12 Champ(Oklahoma usually), PAC12 Champ(PAC12 would finally get to play every year), somehow Texas would make it, the highest ranked team from the Go5 conferences, and then 3 legitimate at large teams(also P5 conference schools).

There's never going to be a legitimate playoff system in 'division1' football. The best you can hope for is 'your team' makes the field every once in a while.

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This would be your playoffs: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State (the only 3 teams that actually have a real chance at a title)
The remaining conference title winners will be as follows: Oklahoma (Semifinal remains their ceiling, though they now at least have some inferior teams to beat up on in the playoffs),
The Pac12 Champion, probably Oregon (who immediately gets destroyed after having to play someone from a real power 5 school),
The G5 school (maybe if they're well coached enough, motivated enough or draw the right team, they win one game)
Your at-large bids are as follows
Georgia: Who blows another double digit lead or gets blown out by one of the 3 actual contenders
2-3 loss SEC West runner-up: They will have 1 or 2 wins against ranked teams and get blown out by Bama in the regular season. SEC homer talking heads will insist this team has a great shot to go all the way for no other reason than they're an SEC team only to get blown out the millisecond they take the field against one of the big 3 title contenders
Florida: They get in by virtue of beating Flordia St, the 5 mediocre-awful teams in the SEC East other than them or Georgia, and whatever FCS and low-tier southern G5 school they play. They get in despite losing every big game on their schedule
Big10 West champion (probably Wisconsin)- Who is basically there to serve as a free pass to whatever team they draw (unless they play the Pac12 champ, then we get a slogfest resembling 2 sub 500 teams playing eachother
Whoever's turn it is to lose to Oklahoma in the Big12 Championship game
Whoever is ranked higher between Notre Dame and the Big10 east runner up (probably Penn State or Michigan)

The end result is basically the same as what you would get in a 4 team playoff except everyone wastes time slogging through 8 teams that have no business being there and have no shot at a national title

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

This would be your playoffs: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State (the only 3 teams that actually have a real chance at a title)
The remaining conference title winners will be as follows: Oklahoma (Semifinal remains their ceiling, though they now at least have some inferior teams to beat up on in the playoffs),
The Pac12 Champion, probably Oregon (who immediately gets destroyed after having to play someone from a real power 5 school),
The G5 school (maybe if they're well coached enough, motivated enough or draw the right team, they win one game)
Your at-large bids are as follows
Georgia: Who blows another double digit lead or gets blown out by one of the 3 actual contenders
2-3 loss SEC West runner-up: They will have 1 or 2 wins against ranked teams and get blown out by Bama in the regular season. SEC homer talking heads will insist this team has a great shot to go all the way for no other reason than they're an SEC team only to get blown out the millisecond they take the field against one of the big 3 title contenders
Florida: They get in by virtue of beating Flordia St, the 5 mediocre-awful teams in the SEC East other than them or Georgia, and whatever FCS and low-tier southern G5 school they play. They get in despite losing every big game on their schedule
Big10 West champion (probably Wisconsin)- Who is basically there to serve as a free pass to whatever team they draw (unless they play the Pac12 champ, then we get a slogfest resembling 2 sub 500 teams playing eachother
Whoever's turn it is to lose to Oklahoma in the Big12 Championship game
Whoever is ranked higher between Notre Dame and the Big10 east runner up (probably Penn State or Michigan)

The end result is basically the same as what you would get in a 4 team playoff except everyone wastes time slogging through 8 teams that have no business being there and have no shot at a national title

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So you’re saying Gonzaga doesn’t have a shot?

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

This would be your playoffs: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State (the only 3 teams that actually have a real chance at a title)
The remaining conference title winners will be as follows: Oklahoma (Semifinal remains their ceiling, though they now at least have some inferior teams to beat up on in the playoffs),
The Pac12 Champion, probably Oregon (who immediately gets destroyed after having to play someone from a real power 5 school),
The G5 school (maybe if they're well coached enough, motivated enough or draw the right team, they win one game)
Your at-large bids are as follows
Georgia: Who blows another double digit lead or gets blown out by one of the 3 actual contenders
2-3 loss SEC West runner-up: They will have 1 or 2 wins against ranked teams and get blown out by Bama in the regular season. SEC homer talking heads will insist this team has a great shot to go all the way for no other reason than they're an SEC team only to get blown out the millisecond they take the field against one of the big 3 title contenders
Florida: They get in by virtue of beating Flordia St, the 5 mediocre-awful teams in the SEC East other than them or Georgia, and whatever FCS and low-tier southern G5 school they play. They get in despite losing every big game on their schedule
Big10 West champion (probably Wisconsin)- Who is basically there to serve as a free pass to whatever team they draw (unless they play the Pac12 champ, then we get a slogfest resembling 2 sub 500 teams playing eachother
Whoever's turn it is to lose to Oklahoma in the Big12 Championship game
Whoever is ranked higher between Notre Dame and the Big10 east runner up (probably Penn State or Michigan)

The end result is basically the same as what you would get in a 4 team playoff except everyone wastes time slogging through 8 teams that have no business being there and have no shot at a national title

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I disagree with the "no shot" part. With more schools than those annual 3 getting their shot, the best athletes now have more choices when choosing a college to play at. Currently if you don't play at Alabama, Clemson, or OSU you have very little chance to play for a national title team. How many players from those 3 schools were 1st round NFL picks recently? Adding more teams to the equation may be pointless initially but it will level the field over time. Maybe not all across college football but at least more than now and by a lot. I like the idea of expanding the playoff.

According to the article if this format had been used last season Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina would have made the field. I think we would all agree neither school would have had much of a chance to win it last season, but what this does is opens the doors for recruitment for all conferences. So, in the future more schools have the opportunity to build a football program that does have a chance. Tired of the same 3-4 schools every year? This is how you break that cycle.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I disagree with the "no shot" part. With more schools than those annual 3 getting their shot, the best athletes now have more choices when choosing a college to play at. Currently if you don't play at Alabama, Clemson, or OSU you have very little chance to play for a national title team. How many players from those 3 schools were 1st round NFL picks recently? Adding more teams to the equation may be pointless initially but it will level the field over time. Maybe not all across college football but at least more than now and by a lot. I like the idea of expanding the playoff.

According to the article if this format had been used last season Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina would have made the field. I think we would all agree neither school would have had much of a chance to win it last season, but what this does is opens the doors for recruitment for all conferences. So, in the future more schools have the opportunity to build a football program that does have a chance. Tired of the same 3-4 schools every year? This is how you break that cycle.

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Not really, some coaches are simply better recruits than others. Also those same people who are swayed by the opportunity to win a national championship are not going to be swayed by an expanded playoff system to choose a school likely to fail in the first 2 rounds over a real contender for a national championship. Nice try though

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

Not really, some coaches are simply better recruits than others. Also those same people who are swayed by the opportunity to win a national championship are not going to be swayed by an expanded playoff system to choose a school likely to fail in the first 2 rounds over a real contender for a national championship. Nice try though

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As previously stated, this is where we disagree. More schools have a chance to make the playoffs equals more schools with a chance to showcase talent equals elite players have more schools to choose from. More equals more. It really is just that simple.

The money train will lead to a "Final Four" weekend in college football similar to college basketball.

All kinds of hoopla, oversaturated TV coverage, bad pop music entertainment, halftime shows etc etc.

Not really surprised.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I disagree with the "no shot" part. With more schools than those annual 3 getting their shot, the best athletes now have more choices when choosing a college to play at. Currently if you don't play at Alabama, Clemson, or OSU you have very little chance to play for a national title team. How many players from those 3 schools were 1st round NFL picks recently? Adding more teams to the equation may be pointless initially but it will level the field over time. Maybe not all across college football but at least more than now and by a lot. I like the idea of expanding the playoff.

According to the article if this format had been used last season Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina would have made the field. I think we would all agree neither school would have had much of a chance to win it last season, but what this does is opens the doors for recruitment for all conferences. So, in the future more schools have the opportunity to build a football program that does have a chance. Tired of the same 3-4 schools every year? This is how you break that cycle.

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Great points.

Kids are going to go:

Where they can play. If they don't play...they transfer.

Where they have the best chance of being drafted. If they don't play...they transfer.

Where they get the most compensation.


A larger playoff will probably mean having some recruits choose other schools over the top programs every year.

Dabo disapproves of 12 teams. Gee... who would have guessed that?! Next thing you know we'll hear about Saban disliking it! Shocking!

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...otball-playoff

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Dabo disapproves of 12 teams. Gee... who would have guessed that?! Next thing you know we'll hear about Saban disliking it! Shocking!

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...otball-playoff

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Well in that same article, Mac Brown of UNC said his players were against the proposal too, so...

My question to supporters of this proposal

Why not a 6 or 8 team playoff with a stipulation that an undefeated team regardless of conference is guaranteed to get in? That way you get more teams in without adding too many teams because anyone who thinks that there are more than 10 teams who deserve a shot at a national title any given year is delusional.

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

Well in that same article, Mac Brown of UNC said his players were against the proposal too, so...

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Well Mac Brown probably still wants the BCS.

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

My question to supporters of this proposal

Why not a 6 or 8 team playoff with a stipulation that an undefeated team regardless of conference is guaranteed to get in? That way you get more teams in without adding too many teams because anyone who thinks that there are more than 10 teams who deserve a shot at a national title any given year is delusional.

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Do you watch basketball? Football at any other level than D1? An all inclusive format works everywhere else. It's about the long term not just next season or the season after that. 10 years down the road, yes more than 10 schools would have a chance to win. Today it's pretty much Bama, Clemson, or OSU. That is what needs to get fixed. It's killing the sport.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Do you watch basketball? Football at any other level than D1? An all inclusive format works everywhere else. It's about the long term not just next season or the season after that. 10 years down the road, yes more than 10 schools would have a chance to win. Today it's pretty much Bama, Clemson, or OSU. That is what needs to get fixed. It's killing the sport.

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By your logic, why not expand the playoff to let every team in? That way every team can have a chance at a title. By your logic, the worst team in the FBS should be competitive with the best team in the FBS in about 10 years

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

By your logic, why not expand the playoff to let every team in? That way every team can have a chance at a title. By your logic, the worst team in the FBS should be competitive with the best team in the FBS in about 10 years

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Strawman arguments like that are very discrediting to your argument.

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

By your logic, why not expand the playoff to let every team in? That way every team can have a chance at a title. By your logic, the worst team in the FBS should be competitive with the best team in the FBS in about 10 years

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First there has to be a fundamental understanding of the context of the debate. The 'College Football Playoff' we are talking about started in 2014. Basically, in 6 years it has become a contest for 3 schools and 1 revolving school, (typically OK, ND, or a 2nd SEC school, typically.) If that is a quality you like in the playoff system then it is already perfect and no need to change anything. Because that is how it will stay until it is expanded. Currently, if you are an elite player that wants a chance to play for a national title there are about 5-6 schools to choose from just to get that chance. Expanding the playoffs to a format that puts more schools into the mix, will also expand the number of schools that elite players can choose from and still have a shot to play for a national title.

As I posted in an earlier post, IF this format had been used this past season Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina would have made the playoffs. They probably do not have the player level to have won last season. But if these 2 schools continued to have success over time, more top level, elite players would choose to play there. Giving those schools a better chance of actually winning the playoff. I don't think the concept is that hard to understand. I think some just want things status quo because either their team is winning and therefore don't want to expand the competition, OR want to see the whole thing crash and burn. Because that's where I see the current format heading.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...otball-playoff


This article is a bit older but maybe it shows some common ground for expanding the playoff. It never settles on a specific number of schools getting in which I see as THE hangup for people in most expansion discussions. Instead it talks more about how it would benefit college football as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

First there has to be a fundamental understanding of the context of the debate. The 'College Football Playoff' we are talking about started in 2014. Basically, in 6 years it has become a contest for 3 schools and 1 revolving school, (typically OK, ND, or a 2nd SEC school, typically.) If that is a quality you like in the playoff system then it is already perfect and no need to change anything. Because that is how it will stay until it is expanded. Currently, if you are an elite player that wants a chance to play for a national title there are about 5-6 schools to choose from just to get that chance. Expanding the playoffs to a format that puts more schools into the mix, will also expand the number of schools that elite players can choose from and still have a shot to play for a national title.

As I posted in an earlier post, IF this format had been used this past season Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina would have made the playoffs. They probably do not have the player level to have won last season. But if these 2 schools continued to have success over time, more top level, elite players would choose to play there. Giving those schools a better chance of actually winning the playoff. I don't think the concept is that hard to understand. I think some just want things status quo because either their team is winning and therefore don't want to expand the competition, OR want to see the whole thing crash and burn. Because that's where I see the current format heading.

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I offered 6 or 8 teams with a guarantee of undefeated teams (including from the group of 5 conferences getting in) as a reasonable alternative expansion proposal to the monstrosity they are offering now and you just said no, more teams. 6 or 8 teams with a measure that guarantees an undefeated group of 5 team WOULD expand the opportunities for more teams to play for the national title especially from the group of 5 conferences and it would do it without watering down the playoff field and reducing the meaningfulness of the regular season.

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Originally Posted by st33lersguy

I offered 6 or 8 teams with a guarantee of undefeated teams (including from the group of 5 conferences getting in) as a reasonable alternative expansion proposal to the monstrosity they are offering now and you just said no more teams. 6 or 8 teams with a measure that guarantees an undefeated group of 5 team WOULD expand the opportunities for more teams to play for the national title especially from the group of 5 conferences and it would do it without watering down the playoff field and reducing the meaningfulness of the regular season.

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That would be reasonable as well. I don't think they would all need to be undefeated necessarily. Any expansion of what currently exists would be progress toward fixing a broken system, IMO. Personally, I would like to see each conference champion make the playoff. Completely do away with "Power5/Group of 5" and level the playing field for all conferences. I believe the current dynamic is purely based on money and greed and has little to do with football. No, I do not believe all conferences are equal, and that's my point I guess.

The bolded part....I don't follow what you said there.

8 would be good with me, but I have no problem with 12. I think it adds more meaning to the regular season with so many teams vying for a spot.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

8 would be good with me, but I have no problem with 12. I think it adds more meaning to the regular season with so many teams vying for a spot.

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My thoughts too. The examples of Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina are perfect, IMO. Even if either had gone undefeated and won their conference there was no room for them in a 4 team playoff. Yet in an 8-12 team scenario they do have that to play for.

Coastal Carolina would have just as good a chance as taking down Alabama as Notre Dame, and I’m a ND fan.