For the future QB of the steelers when Ben is going to retire.....

A true franchises QB are hard to find but the good news is that you can find a true franchise QB outside the top 5 in a draft.

The time for that is probably going to be in 2021 or 2022, but the good thing is that a team doesn't need to tank a season for a draft pick to find a great QB ... Just need to find the right one and put him in a good situation and yes a trade up can to be necessary but at least this is not impossible.

They fixed the contract problem several years ago when top picks got all the $ , but JaMarcus put a stop to that by changing perception. He was more responsible for mitigating risk with billions of $ than State Farm and Allstate combined. He literally was a one man wrecking ball to future rookie contracts with the rule change.

The Steelers have to find a quarterback that is a good fit for what they want to do. The retirements of Andrew Luck, the failures of RGIII, Jameis Winston, and Mariota and recently the exile of Cam Newton put into question of the myth of the "franchise quarterback fixes everything".

If the opportunity is there to take a high guy, the Steelers should take it, but they need to stablize their team before even thinking of getting a new franchise guy. If the team generally stinks around him, or the organization is a mess. The franchise QB will fail.

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Originally Posted by Edman

The Steelers have to find a quarterback that is a good fit for what they want to do. The retirements of Andrew Luck, the failures of RGIII, Jameis Winston, and Mariota and recently the exile of Cam Newton put into question of the myth of the "franchise quarterback fixes everything".

If the opportunity is there to take a high guy, the Steelers should take it, but they need to stablize their team before even thinking of getting a new franchise guy. If the team generally stinks around him, or the organization is a mess. The franchise QB will fail.

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The good news, the steelers are rarely terrible ... The worst that Tomlin can do is 8-8.

The price for trading up can be steep and it better be a good pick (otherwise you become the Rams, who seem to be struggling with an inconsistent top 3 QB with no 1st round picks). I just look at our past history, we’ve been pretty bad with a combined record of 7-23 when we picked our two franchise QB’s. Hard to see a way around that pattern, unless the Steelers become very fortunate and find a Brady like diamond in the rough in a later round

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

The price for trading up can be steep and it better be a good pick (otherwise you become the Rams, who seem to be struggling with an inconsistent top 3 QB with no 1st round picks). I just look at our past history, we’ve been pretty bad with a combined record of 7-23 when we picked our two franchise QB’s. Hard to see a way around that pattern, unless the Steelers become very fortunate and find a Brady like diamond in the rough in a later round

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Sometimes the price is not so high if you take the right QB ... Just ask the texans and the chiefs in 2017 ... It just cost a first round pick for the year after for them.

The problem of the Rams is that they traded their first round pick so many time on players that they were close to being free agent, so they had to give after a big contract to them after ... This is the worst way to build a team since your window to be a contender is much smaller.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

Sometimes the price is not so high if you take the right QB ... Just ask the texans and the chiefs in 2017 ... It just cost a first round pick for the year after for them.

The problem of the Rams is that they traded their first round pick so many time on players that they were close to being free agent, so they had to give after a big contract to them after ... This is the worst way to build a team since your window to be a contender is much smaller.

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agreed, If we can identify the next Mahomes. Problem with that is that the other teams would be looking for the same thing this time as well and we might have a bidding war on our hands

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Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west

agreed, If we can identify the next Mahomes. Problem with that is that the other teams would be looking for the same thing this time as well and we might have a bidding war on our hands

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The other key is also to put this QB in a good situation and the good news, the Steelers have rarely been a bad team ... Also I do not believe that Fitchner will be our OC after the Ben era.

And as the tweet show in the open thread,a team don't need to have a top 5 pick to have one.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

The other key is also to put this QB in a good situation and the good news, the Steelers have rarely been a bad team ... Also I do not believe that Fitchner will be our OC after the Ben era.

And as the tweet show in the open thread,a team don't need to have a top 5 pick to have one.

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For the most part you need a top 12 pick to draft a franchise QB. This is a reason why I hope the NFL shifts to a lottery draft. The Steelers have not have a top 5 pick since....1970! That's 50 years ago. We did pick 7th in 1988, and 8th in 1971.

College QB's are well prepared these days.

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Originally Posted by Six Rings

For the most part you need a top 12 pick to draft a franchise QB. This is a reason why I hope the NFL shifts to a lottery draft. The Steelers have not have a top 5 pick since....1970! That's 50 years ago. We did pick 7th in 1988, and 8th in 1971.

College QB's are well prepared these days.

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We have seen in the last few years teams trade up in the top 12 for a QB(Chiefs and Texans in 2017,Bills in 2018)..... The price for the most part was a first round pick for the year after .... If the steelers believe that this QB can be special, they need to pay this price if possible .... But of course it will be in 2021 or 2022.

With the right team you can win a Superbowl with a Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Mark Ripien, maybe even Eli Manning. Point is if you are searching for the next Patrick Mahomes you may miss the next Drew Brees. Searching for the next Drew Brees you may not see the next Big Ben. And so on...

You build a superbowl team not a superbowl QB. The Steelers right now have a superbowl caliber team. Yes Ben completes that team but this team could win another title with many QBs that aren't afraid to throw the ball deep, scramble, and have a decent football IQ. I don't think that guy is on this team yet though. I do think he could already be in the league.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

With the right team you can win a Superbowl with a Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Mark Ripien, maybe even Eli Manning. Point is if you are searching for the next Patrick Mahomes you may miss the next Drew Brees. Searching for the next Drew Brees you may not see the next Big Ben. And so on...

You build a superbowl team not a superbowl QB. The Steelers right now have a superbowl caliber team. Yes Ben completes that team but this team could win another title with many QBs that aren't afraid to throw the ball deep, scramble, and have a decent football IQ. I don't think that guy is on this team yet though. I do think he could already be in the league.

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Most of his QB won the super bowl with one of the best defense ever (Dilfer and Johnson) or they were hot at the right now (Williams,Eli and Flacco)

But we can't rely on that ... A great QB needs to overcome when a team has weaknesses since it is very rare that a team is perfect in the salary cap era .... This QB also needs to step up in big moment when a team needs it most and make the team better

I ask for a lot, but in the 1990s the steelers had a lot of good teams, but unfortunately the QB was not at its best when it matter the most...And of course,yes our future QB is not on the current roster.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

With the right team you can win a Superbowl with a Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Mark Ripien, maybe even Eli Manning. Point is if you are searching for the next Patrick Mahomes you may miss the next Drew Brees. Searching for the next Drew Brees you may not see the next Big Ben. And so on...

You build a superbowl team not a superbowl QB. The Steelers right now have a superbowl caliber team. Yes Ben completes that team but this team could win another title with many QBs that aren't afraid to throw the ball deep, scramble, and have a decent football IQ. I don't think that guy is on this team yet though. I do think he could already be in the league.

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I'm going to say that this doesn't really work right now. The last bad QB to win a SB was Flacco during a streak where he more than imitated the best playoff QB ever. So then Dilfer, 20 years ago. That is a basically another era of football. As to Eli, he's going to get into the HOF on the backs of his SB years, where he performed far from the "mediocre QB" that fits this traditional take.

Take the most recent SB. The 49'ers defense held the vaunted Chiefs offense in check for big stretches of that game. They couldnt take advantage because either Garappolo sucks or the coaching staff was so scared of him sucking that they rolled out one of the most conservative game plans we have seen in some time. Even the Chiefs defense was able to compete because of how bad the QB play was on the other side.

You need a really good to great QB to get to a SB, let alone win it. Now, where do you find those guys? That is where I will grant you that you can find them outside of the top 5 picks in the first round.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I'm going to say that this doesn't really work right now. The last bad QB to win a SB was Flacco during a streak where he more than imitated the best playoff QB ever. So then Dilfer, 20 years ago. That is a basically another era of football. As to Eli, he's going to get into the HOF on the backs of his SB years, where he performed far from the "mediocre QB" that fits this traditional take.

Take the most recent SB. The 49'ers defense held the vaunted Chiefs offense in check for big stretches of that game. They couldnt take advantage because either Garappolo sucks or the coaching staff was so scared of him sucking that they rolled out one of the most conservative game plans we have seen in some time. Even the Chiefs defense was able to compete because of how bad the QB play was on the other side.

You need a really good to great QB to get to a SB, let alone win it. Now, where do you find those guys? That is where I will grant you that you can find them outside of the top 5 picks in the first round.

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The only recent exemple is Peyton Manning in 2015...Outside of that since 2003, each QB was either very good and capable of making big play or being hot when the team needed the most.

Andy Reid and Bill Cowher waited a long time before winning their first super bowl since their QB were unable to step up in big moment against good competition in the playoffs before their first SB.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

The only recent exemple is Peyton Manning in 2015...Outside of that since 2003, each QB was either very good and capable of making big play or being hot when the team needed the most.

Andy Reid and Bill Cowher waited a long time before winning their first super bowl since their QB were unable to step up in big moment against good competition in the playoffs before their first SB.

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The getting hot thing is a great point. It is kinda like when a pretty good goalie gets locked in and stands on his head for an entire cup run in the NHL. Dude may not be viewed as a "great" goalie but he played exactly like one for a number of playoff games in order for his team to win the cup.

Same idea with QBs.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The getting hot thing is a great point. It is kinda like when a pretty good goalie gets locked in and stands on his head for an entire cup run in the NHL. Dude may not be viewed as a "great" goalie but he played exactly like one for a number of playoff games in order for his team to win the cup.

Same idea with QBs.

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The best exemple is Joe Flacco in 2012 or even Eli Manning in 2007 when he led the league in interception with 20(with only 23 TD) but he had only one interception in the playoffs.But we can't count on that too much!

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

We have seen in the last few years teams trade up in the top 12 for a QB(Chiefs and Texans in 2017,Bills in 2018)..... The price for the most part was a first round pick for the year after .... If the steelers believe that this QB can be special, they need to pay this price if possible .... But of course it will be in 2021 or 2022.

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Its just a huge gamble, for every Mahomes there is a Winston, Mariota, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield. Or even Worse Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell. I would rather see a gamble taking a Jalen Hurts type of guy in round 3 than give away first rounder for a possible franchise QB. But then again thats why Im typing on keyboard instead of front office. Its much easier cutting a round 3 Mason Rudolph than a round 1 Rudolph.

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Originally Posted by cubanstogie

Its just a huge gamble, for every Mahomes there is a Winston, Mariota, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield. Or even Worse Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell. I would rather see a gamble taking a Jalen Hurts type of guy in round 3 than give away first rounder for a possible franchise QB. But then again thats why Im typing on keyboard instead of front office. Its much easier cutting a round 3 Mason Rudolph than a round 1 Rudolph.

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Maybe a trade up will not be necessary (like giving a first round pick the year after) ... Teams like the Ravens and the Seahawks didn't have to do that!

Nobody knows what the steelers' strategy is going to be when it's going to be the time but if they really believe that a QB can make a big difference for the next 10-15 years and they have the chance to make this move, they need to make this move but of course they must not be wrong on this QB!

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

Most of his QB won the super bowl with one of the best defense ever (Dilfer and Johnson) or they were hot at the right now (Williams,Eli and Flacco)

But we can't rely on that ... A great QB needs to overcome when a team has weaknesses since it is very rare that a team is perfect in the salary cap era .... This QB also needs to step up in big moment when a team needs it most and make the team better

I ask for a lot, but in the 1990s the steelers had a lot of good teams, but unfortunately the QB was not at its best when it matter the most...And of course,yes our future QB is not on the current roster.

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I agree. I think my point was lost in my previous post. I would rather over pay on a FA that has shown some measure of an NFL quality QB than search the draft for a hidden gem. These 'baseball' trained QBs like Wilson and Mahomes have had success but so have the statue in the pocket guys like Brady, Eli, and Flacco, while somewhat more mobile guys but mainly pocket passers have found their success in QBs like Ben, Brees, or Rodgers. This position is the biggest crap shoot of all of them, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I agree. I think my point was lost in my previous post. I would rather over pay on a FA that has shown some measure of an NFL quality QB than search the draft for a hidden gem. These 'baseball' trained QBs like Wilson and Mahomes have had success but so have the statue in the pocket guys like Brady, Eli, and Flacco, while somewhat more mobile guys but mainly pocket passers have found their success in QBs like Ben, Brees, or Rodgers. This position is the biggest crap shoot of all of them, IMO.

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Problem is that the long term QB franchise found in a draft ... Very rare we will see franchise QB in the open market in their prime like Drew Brees 14 years ago.And Brees was considered a risk at this time because of his injury.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I agree. I think my point was lost in my previous post. I would rather over pay on a FA that has shown some measure of an NFL quality QB than search the draft for a hidden gem. These 'baseball' trained QBs like Wilson and Mahomes have had success but so have the statue in the pocket guys like Brady, Eli, and Flacco, while somewhat more mobile guys but mainly pocket passers have found their success in QBs like Ben, Brees, or Rodgers. This position is the biggest crap shoot of all of them, IMO.

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OK. Got it. I can agree with all that.

Personally, prefer the "keep drafting QBs until you get lucky approach". Like this year, depending on the board, I would take that kid coming out of Mike Leach's system (Gordon) and see if he can develop but retain his accuracy. Eventually, draft enough guys in rounds 4-6 -- you will find someone!

Interesting to look at the league by QBs. The Bengals are expected to take Burrows #1 overall by just about everyone. Burrow is not going to come in day 1 and make the Bengals contenders to go to the Superbowl. He may or may not be an improvement over Dalton or Finley. But what this pick does is give the Bengals a chance to have a QB they can build their team on and possibly contend in a couple years. No other position sets you up like that. If you already have a team that is capable of contending and all you need is a QB that won't throw multiple picks to a wide open DB(I'm looking right at you O'Donnell) a guy like Dalton can be enough. Does this veteran OL of the Steelers have enough left in the tank to protect Ben and open running lanes just long enough for this offense to be competitive? If the answer is yes, a veteran backup like Dalton may be all this team needs to ensure a minimal dropoff at the QB position. OR take a chance on a highly successful college QB and roll the dice.

The team needs to be perfect or lucky if a team realistically want to win a super bowl with Dalton .... Even that is not a guaranteed ... The 49ers were very close to win but their QB was unable to step up when the 49ers needed it the most.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

The team needs to be perfect or lucky if a team realistically want to win a super bowl with Dalton .... Even that is not a guaranteed ... The 49ers were very close to win but their QB was unable to step up when the 49ers needed it the most.

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No team is "guaranteed" anything. Many worthy teams get close but never win. The team wins/loses not the player.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

No team is "guaranteed" anything. Many worthy teams get close but never win. The team wins/loses not the player.

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True but the odds are much smaller and the window is also smaller to win with a very average QB

The odds are also greater than we can find a QB franchise in a draft than in the free agent .... In the last 10 years I don't remember a free agent QB (outside of Peyton Manning) that a team paid the big price to have this QB and which was a success after .... Almost each of its QB were a big free agent bust like Nick Foles,another average QB who has been hot at the right time to win the super bowl back in 2017.

The last thing that I want as QB is a QB like Alex Smith.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

True but the odds are much smaller and the window is also smaller to win with a very average QB

The odds are also greater than we can find a QB franchise in a draft than in the free agent .... In the last 10 years I don't remember a free agent QB (outside of Peyton Manning) that a team paid the big price to have this QB and which was a success after .... Almost each of its QB were a big free agent bust like Nick Foles,another average QB who has been hot at the right time to win the super bowl back in 2017.

The last thing that I want as QB is a QB like Alex Smith.

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I feel like we are talking about 2 different things here. Foles is the perfect example of what I am saying. The Eagles had a team that was a contender. Foles was able to lead that team to a superbowl win. Foles didn't make the team a contender though. But the Eagles had a backup capable of 'keeping' the team a contender. Last year's Steelers team had a playoff caliber defense but not a playoff caliber QB. Ben fixes that issue. But I would trade away all 3 of the current backups for Nick Foles as Ben's backup right now. Or pick your equivalent whatever that name may be.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

I feel like we are talking about 2 different things here. Foles is the perfect example of what I am saying. The Eagles had a team that was a contender. Foles was able to lead that team to a superbowl win. Foles didn't make the team a contender though. But the Eagles had a backup capable of 'keeping' the team a contender. Last year's Steelers team had a playoff caliber defense but not a playoff caliber QB. Ben fixes that issue. But I would trade away all 3 of the current backups for Nick Foles as Ben's backup right now. Or pick your equivalent whatever that name may be.

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It's just that my fear is that the steelers are in the same situation as in the 1990s or the Chiefs with Alex Smith when they had a great team but their QB like O'Donnell and Smith were unable to step up when the team needed the most.

I understand that you can win with an average QB like Flacco and Foles if they are hot at the right time but it is very rare.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

It's just that my fear is that the steelers are in the same situation as in the 1990s or the Chiefs with Alex Smith when they had a great team but their QB like O'Donnell and Smith were unable to step up when the team needed the most.

I understand that you can win with an average QB like Flacco and Foles if they are hot at the right time but it is very rare.

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Actually it's not that rare at all.

Namath, Plunkett, McMahon, Simms, Williams, Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, B.Johnson, Eli, Flacco, and Foles. Just a dozen names from the winners list.

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Originally Posted by Born2Steel

Actually it's not that rare at all.

Namath, Plunkett, McMahon, Simms, Williams, Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, B.Johnson, Eli, Flacco, and Foles. Just a dozen names from the winners list.

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Most of that list is from when a SB winning QB had to throw like 20-25 times or even less. Now, guys gotta sling it a ton to win a SB and a ton to get to one. Even Foles went 28/43 for 3 TDs and an MVP Award. A plan to build a championship caliber team and then plug a mediocre or below QB under center is a plan to fail.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Most of that list is from when a SB winning QB had to throw like 20-25 times or even less. Now, guys gotta sling it a ton to win a SB and a ton to get to one. Even Foles went 28/43 for 3 TDs and an MVP Award. A plan to build a championship caliber team and then plug a mediocre or below QB under center is a plan to fail.

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That is never the plan. The plan is for Ben to play QB. But if he goes down again we need at least a mediocre QB at backup. Right now we don't even have Trent Dilfer let alone Nick Foles. If we had Foles we could plan for life after Ben right now if it came to that. How fun does entering 2021/2022(just random years) with Rudolph and rookie draft pick sound? I would rather have Dalton/Winston/Newton/Mariota/etc. Not saying go get a mediocre QB to be the franchise QB heading forward. I would over pay for one of those guys than have what happened last season happen again. Today.