QB -- What Are We Doing??

The keys to the playoff run are entrusted to an undrafted rookie who just threw 4 picks. He's starting because the last almost-rookie couldn't stop throwing INTs.

True or False: This team makes it to the AFCCG with Landry Jones at QB? I say true and would say so with just about any backup that was decent when paired with that defense.

In hindsight, not signing a veteran backup probably cost this team a shot at the Super Bowl. Will this team make the same mistake next year and ride with an iffy Ben and two scrubs? Or will they go out and sign a top tier backup? I'm not saying Landry was a top tier backup, just better than these two.

True of False: Will this team sign a top-tier veteran backup (a bridge type QB) for 2020?

There you have it - a two question T or F test.

1) False- Landry Jones looked worse than the almost-rookie that got benched, that's why he got cut, and literally zero NFL teams were interested in picking him up. His best chance is to go the way of Tommy Maddox and get his shot after the XFL.

Landry was NOT a top tier backup. Top tier backup is someone like Tedy Bridgewater or Ryan Fitzpatrick. Landry Jones, I don't understand what people thought was so great about him, I mean no teams were interested in him at all.

2) If Ben cannot come back, True. If Ben comes back, False. This really hinges on Ben's return. If Ben returns, they will try to develop one of the younger guys. I think it's premature to give up on Mason or Duck potentially being a bridge. However, if Ben is not coming back, with this team's defense, they could be a contender with a mid-level journeyman. Had we also gotten a Ryan Fitzpatrick type QB, I'm sure they'd be in a better spot right now. Like Berman says "You're always in it with Fitzy", and well, you're always in it with our defense. With that combo this could be a contender? :chuckle: He could be a possible trade target, especially if the Dolphins are gonna draft a QB with one of their 20 or so first round picks next year.

1. False. Different singer, same song.
2. False. Can not devote cap space to a bigger dollar back-up plan at QB.

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Originally Posted by Fire Goodell

1) False- Landry Jones looked worse than the almost-rookie that got benched, that's why he got cut, and literally zero NFL teams were interested in picking him up. His best chance is to go the way of Tommy Maddox and get his shot after the XFL.

Landry was NOT a top tier backup. Top tier backup is someone like Tedy Bridgewater or Ryan Fitzpatrick. Landry Jones, I don't understand what people thought was so great about him, I mean no teams were interested in him at all.

2) If Ben cannot come back, True. If Ben comes back, False. This really hinges on Ben's return. If Ben returns, they will try to develop one of the younger guys. I think it's premature to give up on Mason or Duck potentially being a bridge. However, if Ben is not coming back, with this team's defense, they could be a contender with a mid-level journeyman. Had we also gotten a Ryan Fitzpatrick type QB, I'm sure they'd be in a better spot right now. Like Berman says "You're always in it with Fitzy", and well, you're always in it with our defense. With that combo this could be a contender? :chuckle: He could be a possible trade target, especially if the Dolphins are gonna draft a QB with one of their 20 or so first round picks next year.

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No way was Landry worse than Hodges and Rudolph. And I clearly stated that Landry was NOT a top tier backup, just better than these two.

I'd love Fitzpatrick or any of about 6 guys.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

1. False. Different singer, same song.
2. False. Can not devote cap space to a bigger dollar back-up plan at QB.

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I expected most to answer false on Landry, but you really want to roll the dice with these two guys again?! Fitzpatrick is making $5.5 this year and Case Keenum $3.5. Spending $3-6M wouldn't be worth it today with this team?

If Ben is coming back less than 100% I'd not be against signing a vet backup. Let Duck / Mason compete with the vet in the preseason for the #2 and cut whoever's the odd man out of that 3-way battle. I have a feeling in that scenario it'd be Mason.

1. Hard False: Landry Jones was horrible. What did Landry ever do for this team other than scrape by at home against the 1-31 '16 and '17 Browns in meaningless games? Also keep in mind that the 2018 preseason he was outshined by Josh Dobbs who in the following preseason was outshined by Mason Rudolph. Oh and later he was quickly cut by a team carrying Nathan Peterman on their roster. I really don't see the point in defending a crappy QB who has been gone for over a calendar year now

2. Depends on their confidence in Ben. If they are really bullish on him being able to return to full strength then false. If not, true

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Originally Posted by Fire Goodell

1) False- Landry Jones looked worse than the almost-rookie that got benched, that's why he got cut, and literally zero NFL teams were interested in picking him up. His best chance is to go the way of Tommy Maddox and get his shot after the XFL.

Landry was NOT a top tier backup. Top tier backup is someone like Tedy Bridgewater or Ryan Fitzpatrick. Landry Jones, I don't understand what people thought was so great about him, I mean no teams were interested in him at all.

2) If Ben cannot come back, True. If Ben comes back, False. This really hinges on Ben's return. If Ben returns, they will try to develop one of the younger guys. I think it's premature to give up on Mason or Duck potentially being a bridge. However, if Ben is not coming back, with this team's defense, they could be a contender with a mid-level journeyman. Had we also gotten a Ryan Fitzpatrick type QB, I'm sure they'd be in a better spot right now. Like Berman says "You're always in it with Fitzy", and well, you're always in it with our defense. With that combo this could be a contender? :chuckle: He could be a possible trade target, especially if the Dolphins are gonna draft a QB with one of their 20 or so first round picks next year.

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Yep Landry even had AB to throw to and Bell at RB and he still sucked. I'd be all for trading for FItz and Miami probably would want to start their rookie QB from the get go next year. Fitz could be had rather cheap unless Miami is pissed about the Minkah trade.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

No way was Landry worse than Hodges and Rudolph. And I clearly stated that Landry was NOT a top tier backup, just better than these two.

I'd love Fitzpatrick or any of about 6 guys.

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I expected most to answer false on Landry, but you really want to roll the dice with these two guys again?! Fitzpatrick is making $5.5 this year and Case Keenum $3.5. Spending $3-6M wouldn't be worth it today with this team?

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I don't. But I do not see how to do anything else. This team can only afford Mason, Duck, Lynch, and Random SUPER cheap QB dart throw. Say you need $4 million to get a veteran back-up. The first question is where does the money come from? It almost certainly means BOTH Dupree and Hargrave are gone. Along with Foster and Finney. Might not be able to afford both Hilton and Sutton. Etc. Many of those choices are going to be have to be made regardless, but you only decrease the small amount of cap wiggle room you have if you want to get a higher end back-up QB. Second question is would an established higher end back-up really even want to come here? For instance, Fitzmagic went to Miami because he is no fool. He gambled that Rosen wouldn't make the year as the starter and he could get some run. Why sign up to potentially play zero games in 2020?

I think they best option in the FA market would not be going and signing Fitzpatrick, but signing the NEXT Fitzpatrick -- young, cheap, and shockingly good. Who is that? No idea. But that is where your scouting department earns their coin.

Good backup QB > Mark Barron/ Donte Moncrief/ Morgan Burnett/ Ladarius Green/ et al (You know they'll sign one in 2020)

It's amazing how quickly Steelers fans can turn on their players.
Rudolph: Starts 5-4, struggles because he's too conservative with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!
Duck: Starts 3-0, has ONE bad game because he's a little too aggressive with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!

It's like they expect every QB to be as good as Big Ben...:lol:

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

It's amazing how quickly Steelers fans can turn on their players.
Rudolph: Starts 5-4, struggles because he's too conservative with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!
Duck: Starts 3-0, has ONE bad game because he's a little too aggressive with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!

It's like they expect every QB to be as good as Big Ben...:lol:

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It's just so painful to watch a championship defense be handicapped by an impotent offense that's bottom 5 in the league.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

It's just so painful to watch a championship defense be handicapped by an impotent offense that's bottom 5 in the league.

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Watching Steeler games shouldn't be painful. Exciting and nerve- wracking, sure... but not painful. :D
There are a lot more problems with this offense than just the QB; more problems than bringing in another QB can fix. We're lucky we even have a winning season with all the adversity we've faced. I recommend just relaxing and enjoying the ride.

What are the Steelers doing at QB?

Playing poker when the best cards in their hand are a pair of twos

Tomlin simply has little to work with and it is not as if keeping Dobbs would have made a difference.

Other than the Saints with Bridgewater few teams can do well if the starter is out for long

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Originally Posted by AtlantaDan

What are the Steelers doing at QB?

Playing poker when the best cards in their hand are a pair of twos

Tomlin simply has little to work with and it is not as if keeping Dobbs would have made a difference.

Other than the Saints with Bridgewater few teams can do well if the starter is out for long

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I was always taught that your backup should be able to step in and hold the line for 3-4 games. After that your really taking about a second starter.

So as bad as I think Rudolph and Hodges are, they’ve done their jobs as backups.

Problem is, they were asked to be starters. Which I think is what DesertSteel is getting at.

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

Watching Steeler games shouldn't be painful. Exciting and nerve- wracking, sure... but not painful. :D
There are a lot more problems with this offense than just the QB; more problems than bringing in another QB can fix. We're lucky we even have a winning season with all the adversity we've faced. I recommend just relaxing and enjoying the ride.

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Right. They shouldn’t be painful. But 4 INTs is PAINFUL to me when we give games away that just an average game manager at QB could win.

As far as enjoying the season, I’m loving it, but that doesn’t make me stupid and say let’s have the same plan at QB again next season.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Right. They shouldn’t be painful. But 4 INTs is PAINFUL to me when we give games away that just an average game manager at QB could win.

As far as enjoying the season, I’m loving it, but that doesn’t make me stupid and say let’s have the same plan at QB again next season.

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Can you plan for absolute catastrophe?

Bridgewater was good but Brees came back.

I guess we have Foles, Reich, and Earl Morral on one hand and missing the playoffs on the other.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Right. They shouldn’t be painful. But 4 INTs is PAINFUL to me when we give games away that just an average game manager at QB could win.

As far as enjoying the season, I’m loving it, but that doesn’t make me stupid and say let’s have the same plan at QB again next season.

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But we don't have enough of a body of work from either of these guys to assess their true floor or ceiling. Maybe Duck Hodges is a future star who just had a single bad game. Hell... Maybe Mason Rudolph is a future HOF'er who wasn't ready for the burden in his starting season and we just don't know it yet.
There's a word for teams and fan bases who lack the patience to properly develop and evaluate their players before running them out of town: Cleveland.
We get Ben back next year and we'll still have a kickass defense. How about the bare minimum of patience rather than going full "ZOMG EVERYONE PANIC" at the first sign of adversity?

False and False

Ben will be back next season and you can’t go into a season expecting to lose your starting QB for the season. As stated above you have backups that can hold the ship steady for a few games at QB unless you are lucky (Saints and Colts). If you have 2 starting quality QBs then you have so much salary cap locked up in that position you don’t have the rest of a team. Between them they are 8-5, considering their top 2 offensive players have been out for half the season and no TE, plus 2 guys on their 3rd game, the season was a shitstorm of injuries. Be happy our defense is killing it, hope Ben is back at at least 90% next season and our top players are mostly injury free and we can talk about a Super Bowl run.

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

But we don't have enough of a body of work from either of these guys to assess their true floor or ceiling. Maybe Duck Hodges is a future star who just had a single bad game. Hell... Maybe Mason Rudolph is a future HOF'er who wasn't ready for the burden in his starting season and we just don't know it yet.
There's a word for teams and fan bases who lack the patience to properly develop and evaluate their players before running them out of town: Cleveland.
We get Ben back next year and we'll still have a kickass defense. How about the bare minimum of patience rather than going full "ZOMG EVERYONE PANIC" at the first sign of adversity?

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Patience is a code word for failure. Hodges and Rudolph are capable as a #2 and #3 with a healthy/younger Ben. But no way would I want to go into next season without a veteran backup and miss this window. In the NFL it's all about windows.

Regarding Landry Jones, Probably true

and yes, I think they sign a solid veteran backup to Ben (they did it before, with batch, leftwich, gradkowski)

I think they were expecting more out of Rudolph, as many of us here were, we and the Steelers thought he would be a good backup, it’s looking like a bad bet - so far

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

It's amazing how quickly Steelers fans can turn on their players.
Rudolph: Starts 5-4, struggles because he's too conservative with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!
Duck: Starts 3-0, has ONE bad game because he's a little too aggressive with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!

It's like they expect every QB to be as good as Big Ben...:lol:

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I agree with your sentiment here....fickle Steeler fans love the knee-jerk overreaction.

But lets be honest. Its not like Rudolph and Hodges generated those 8 wins all by themselves. Maybe they combined were instrumental in 4 of them and the other 4 wins were just a matter of defense, conservative playcalling and generating turnovers to put the offense on a short field.

While I don't think Landry Jones was great, I do think that as a veteran backup, the Steelers are likely a 9 or 10 win team with him at this point by game managing and letting the Defense play they way they are playing.

A Landry Jones and Dobbs qb duo probably edges out our current qb duo. Both had more experience than Hodges and Rudolph. But again, hindsight is 20/20. I think the Steelers will pay more heed to keep at least one experiment backup on the team next year.

Yeah right , patience a code word for failure .A guy has one bad game so you just toss him and get another scrub to fill a spot that noone was excelling at anyway. Once you get rid of the real problem which I believe to be an (0.C.) and then you see no change in results then maybe make a change .In this thread scenario its like taking your cars engine out to replace an oil filter. Real smart.

Way too many people keep making the claim the problem with the offense is all on Fichtner. I don't like some of the stuff he does either, and the wildcat needs to be eliminated....but he is literally trying to figure it out as he goes and holding the whole thing together with chewing gum and duct tape.

Fichtner is not holding the quarterbacks down. The quarterbacks are holding the quarterbacks down.

Almost all of the good teams in the NFL have really, really good quarterbacks. That is a fact. All the other teams are wandering aimlessly in the NFL universe trying anything and anybody to find a quarterback good enough to consistently win games and give them a chance to beat better teams and succeed in the playoffs.

There just aren't many men on the planet capable of playing the position at a very high level. That is an undeniable truth.

The lesser the quarterback, the more they rely on the players around them. That is just how it is. With all the weapons down for most of this season, it has been difficult to fully evaluate the quarterback play other than the obvious fact that they are not elite players. They are playing under tough conditions right now, but both Rudolph and now Hodges have shown weaknesses in their game or reluctance to do some things on the field that are necessary if they want to become competent QBs.

I think Jones and Dobbs would have done better than our current group because they had more experience. I liked Dobbs because he had no fear and he added athleticism to the equation so that he could make some plays even when nothing was there. He seemed most capable of producing big plays. I would have liked to see what he could have done, but he was flawed as well with turnovers and some accuracy issues.

We have who we have. We have no way of knowing what is going on in practice. We are not there to see if Rudolph has made any strides, or if the QBs are struggling with the game mentally. We can't hear how the coaches are trying to coach them up, or identifying their weaknesses. We are not in meeting rooms with coaches going over game plans to try to mask deficiencies or find plays that match their strengths. Some of the play calls that we can't stand may be plays that the QBs told the coaches they are most comfortable with.

We simply do not know.

What we have to hope for is that all the players get healthy, that a quarterback can find a way to play decent football for the rest of the season, and that the defense dominates. I still don't know if that's enough, but it's all we have at this point. If they can do that, they will have a chance to win every game they play, including playoff games if they get there.

Hard PASS on Landry Jones. There’s a reason he was sitting out there and then signed by the XFL.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

Patience is a code word for failure. Hodges and Rudolph are capable as a #2 and #3 with a healthy/younger Ben. But no way would I want to go into next season without a veteran backup and miss this window. In the NFL it's all about windows.

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Actually, impatience is a code word for failure. You do realize that hasty desperate changes make the situation worse instead of better?

No to Landry Jones. He was too hesitant to make it in the NFL. I’ll take Duck’s four-INT game over Landry holding the ball for forever and getting sacked.

Yes, I realize that a sack is worse than an INT, but at least Duck attempts to make some plays (and gets an occasional TD). Landry was happy to go three-&-out and be like, “At least I didn’t turn it over.” True, maybe that would indeed be good with this defense... but, it’s not a healthy mentality for a QB to have.

R2: Jacob Eason, Washington
Talk about your Brett Favre-esque QB. Eason is that QB who might throw 4 INTs, but bounce back with 5 TDs... all in the same game. :lol: Really. The dude makes some throws where you’re like “Why!?!” But then, it’s complete and you’re like, “WOW!!!”

Watching Eason reminds me of Ben scrambling around: there is going to be an occasional bad play (with Ben, it was a sack; with Eason, it’s a WTF throw). But, the larger percentage of plays end up with you applauding. Sort of like...

“No, no, no... what are you d- ... what!?!... WOW!!!”

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

Actually, impatience is a code word for failure. You do realize that hasty desperate changes make the situation worse instead of better?

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It’s all about perspective and yours is just different than mine. You allow a QB to go through 2-3 years of growing pains when you have a big investment and/or the rest your of your team isn’t championship caliber. There’s no way that Colbert rides with these two next year if there’s uncertainty about Ben.

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

It's amazing how quickly Steelers fans can turn on their players.
Rudolph: Starts 5-4, struggles because he's too conservative with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!
Duck: Starts 3-0, has ONE bad game because he's a little too aggressive with his reads. Steeler fans: Boo! He sucks! Get him outta there!

It's like they expect every QB to be as good as Big Ben...:lol:

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The problem I have as a fan is how we've been told time and time again Mason had a 1st round grade from the Steelers.
So to me in turn you should perform like you have that FIRST round talent.
Mason did not come close. He played about as well as I do in touch football and that's not saying much.

Mind you I've said it numerous times but as a fan when I saw Ben first play you could tell right away he had that 'IT' factor.
With Mason in 2 preseasons I knew he was a wasted pick. There was nothing that made him different or exciting or well anything.

Now I'm not saying Duck is the guy either but at the very minimalist least he pushes the ball down field more than what Mason did.

Alas lets see what happens in these final 2 games...

Well based on percentages of bad first round QBs, Mason fits in extremely well.